<xmrhaelan> I can’t tell if #monero-compliance is broken so I am just going to share this here. I do not have the talent to make this happen but maybe the idea will spark some interest by a developer here.

<xmrhaelan> There was a discussion with the author of this article today in the Monero Outreach Telegram decrypt.co/34740/blueleaks-how-the-…-bitcoin-laundering-on-the-dark-web

<xmrhaelan> It got me thinking about the issue of compliance and how so many people falsely claim Monero cannot be audited because of its privacy features.

<xmrhaelan> We all know that sharing view-keys and key images would allow someone to audit a Monero wallet.

<xmrhaelan> Many of us have also claimed to others that this would be easy, the tech is already there.

<xmrhaelan> So the question is, why hasn’t anyone built a program or a company around this?

<xmrhaelan> I know it may be an unpopular opinion, but if there were a company or project focusing on the technology that PROVES Monero is compliant at the individual user level, it would probably be significant in terms of long term adoption

<xmrhaelan> Please discuss

<[discord] sgp#7572>: Because telling people to use the view key would be a horrendous UX nightmare

<[discord] sgp#7572>: No way should that ever happen

<[discord] sgp#7572>: The author of that Blueleaks article reached out to me for comment on Reddit but apparently I was too late to respond

<[discord] sgp#7572>: The message should be that there is NO NEED to use view key-style auditing for the vast majority of cases

irccloud has been down for 4 hours btw

might want to wait til its back up before talking too in depth

<[discord] sgp#7572>: Yeah hence why Discord is easiest for me :p

loooots of people aren't able to connect

im using an alias so you don't know who I am

<[discord] sgp#7572>: irccloud costs too much money for it to be this unreliable

4 hours is really bad.

after 15 minutes I'd swapped to an alt client

<[discord] sgp#7572>: Anyway xmrhaelan, the reason no one has done this and why no one cares to do this is because the idea of using view keys would be horrible in practice

<[discord] sgp#7572>: And your process as you suggest it is not aligned with what FinCEN actually wants anyway

<xmrhaelan> Please explain.

<xmrhaelan> Why is it an argument I have heard many times if it actually is not recommended?

<xmrhaelan> And what does FinCEN want that it wouldn’t provide?

<xmrhaelan> Feel free to answer later

my znc bouncer still running on a 2$ vps...

though ive never been sure if its actually giving me scrollback

Xmrhaelan: My opinion is that many interested in monero don't care about compliance and i'm one of those. I think the place for this discussion is the dedicated workgroup (that you already contacted) and i wouldn't make it something community wide. It would give a very bad feeling: "this tech is revolutionary and can change the world! But only if we get the right authorizations.." :P

ErCiccione: agreed

I don't understand the people that says compliance is the way to success for crypto. Bitcoin only became big when it started being used for illegal activities. The Silk Road market is what made Bitcoin big in the first place, not compliance.

Because if crypto is going to comply with everything bureocrats ask, why not use fiat? If using crypto is going to be as encumbered as fiat because of compliance, then what is the advantage of crypto?

Yeah i totally agree it's the opposite. Compliance is the way to kill crypto as we know it.

<[discord] sgp#7572>: I personally think some compliance is sensible, and meeting regulators part-way will reduce the chances of them imposing some overkill regulations

<[discord] sgp#7572>: In any case though, that's what monero-compliance is for

<[discord] sgp#7572>: And irccloud still dead

You can be compliant at the exchange level to deal with fiat obviously, but the protocol level should be completely clean

<sgp_> Mumuks[m]: I don's think there's any disagreement there

<[discord] GoodEnough#2932>: Does anyone here have a working WeChat account?

<[discord] GoodEnough#2932>: ChainTalkTV wants to do a Monero AMA and I volunteered to help out, but can’t get a verified WeChat account without an existing user verifying me for their AMA, and they weren’t able to.

<[discord] GoodEnough#2932>: I normally wouldn’t touch WeChat with a ten foot pole but wanted to do the AMA for some visibility and then delete my account right after.

<sarang> testing

<sarang> I don't like the idea of using bridged accounts, since it muddies the waters on which accounts/nicks are legitimate

<sarang> But anyway, I claim to be sarang via mattermost

<sarang> Apparently "IRCCloud" should be renamed "IRCSinglePointOfFailure"

GoodEnough: Think you will have more chance by making a Reddit thread

I've seen a fake stoffu account running around on Discord before... maybe an admirer?

<sarang> Anyway, only the freenode sarang nick is guaranteed to be legitimate, so take this bridge account with a grain of salt (once IRCCloud comes back online, I can verify)

<sarang> I only created this account for today's lab meeting

<sarang> I suspect it will be low attendance unless IRCSinglePointOfFailure gets back up

<sgp_> I contacted Bitrefill asking them to support XMR, saying that adding it wouldn't just be adding another altcoin

looks like IRCCloud should be back up within a few hours

Oof

<sarang> They said they can't use any of the major cloud providers due to their connection requirements

<sarang> But even so, it's clear that relying on (apparently) a single ISP is not sufficient

<sarang> This is the second major outage in not too long

<[discord] GoodEnough#2932>: Thanks Debruyne I’ll try that!

<sgp_> does anyone happen to know someone at bitrefill? I'm having a look around to see if I met someone when I was in Stockholm

I only know the ones working from South America

maybe they can connect you?

You're welcome

<sgp_> rdymac_: sure, anything helps :)

hmm how do I DM you here if you are in Mattermost(?) ?

<sgp_> rdymac_: maybe easier to dm sgp_ when irccloud comes online

looks like IRCCloud is back

<sarang> not fully

<sarang> My clients still can't connect

Sarang: Upper right corner

oh there

yeah

you can disconnect/reconnect

testing

:(

-___-

Woo-hoo, Monero community is alive and well

cool, back

FWIW the xmrmatterbridge user sarang was me

What??????

:p

Hey, gotta confirm these things

We had a CCS faked a while back

you should've uploaded a selfie holding a mango up, to make sure it is you.

Because nobody checked initially

photo with boot on head

I hear a lot of people use(d) keybase for securely listing account connections, but they sold out to zoom, because reasons

I have zero interest in using that

I want to test Jami

what is that

jami.net

Right now I use my github profile blurb to list my other accounts

that seems legit enough

Ah you mean for that. Use your own website I guess

Hosted on GitHub anyway :p

heh

It is a fascinating problem to think about

So Jami is what exactly?

Its fancy web page has so many fancy icons

The people in the blurred photo are all smiling, so it must be good

Looks like a Signal competitor

Anyone who wants to add me to try it out, my username is jehrenhofer

Oh hey

People talking about Jami, excellent

Jami is basically a text/voice/video client

So perhaps more akin to Wire than Signal given the video functionality

Which also makes it better, IMO

sarang: ^

(Mainly because it's geared towards 1:1 comms)

xmrscott[m]: honestly I'll probably continue using Google Duo for A/V calls unless Jami allows for really nice, dynamic groups

we've all been there where we want to add someone to a specific call but either you need to make a new room or bug every single person in a broad room when you want to call 2, maybe 3 people

Yeah, Jami doesn't support anything beyond 1:1 ATM, not sure if it's in the roadmap offhand to change that

It's basically what I found in my reoccuring search over the past 1.5 years for something that will run on Linux mobile when I make the jump next month and allow secure 1:1 comms to family/friends using Android still. I don't really do group calls on my phone, but hopefully a solution happens sooner than later

My money would be likely something Matrix based given how embedded Matrix seems to be on emerging stock comms apps, but it's likely to be pretty rough

Signal has supported video for a while just fyi

Ah ok, good to know. Signal has basically forced Purism to create a Signal client for Linux mobile, so any efforts to use Signal on Linux mobile are likely to require Purism which isn't a high priority compared to Purism's XMPP+Matrix related clients ATM

<[discord] Kayla#5718>: can i be a shill for just a sec?

<[discord] Kayla#5718>: about the librem 5

<[discord] Kayla#5718>: is like super expensive while: pine64.org/pinephone is just $150 (received mine today UwU)

Understandable. Different business models. Purism owns HW+SW stack so it can be RYC certed by FSF + higher specs while Pine64 has given SW stack to whoever

I ordered Librem5, but have been waiting for a pmOS or KDE Neon CE Pinephone (not a fan of Unity) to see if I can gift to family who don't need a smart phone (e.g. grandparents). pmOS goes up for PO soon, so hopefully have by late August to experiment with

Let me know what you think of yours since the Pinephone blog won't be out for another week. Excited to see people start hacking away on them. UwU