03:00:49 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> I can’t tell if #monero-compliance is broken so I am just going to share this here. I do not have the talent to make this happen but maybe the idea will spark some interest by a developer here.
03:01:31 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> There was a discussion with the author of this article today in the Monero Outreach Telegram https://decrypt.co/34740/blueleaks-how-the-fbi-tracks-bitcoin-laundering-on-the-dark-web
03:02:18 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> It got me thinking about the issue of compliance and how so many people falsely claim Monero cannot be audited because of its privacy features.
03:02:57 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> We all know that sharing view-keys and key images would allow someone to audit a Monero wallet.
03:03:26 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Many of us have also claimed to others that this would be easy, the tech is already there.
03:04:03 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> So the question is, why hasn’t anyone built a program or a company around this?
03:05:46 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> I know it may be an unpopular opinion, but if there were a company or project focusing on the technology that PROVES Monero is compliant at the individual user level, it would probably be significant in terms of long term adoption
03:07:07 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Please discuss
03:08:29 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: Because telling people to use the view key would be a horrendous UX nightmare
03:08:42 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: No way should that ever happen
03:09:21 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: The author of that Blueleaks article reached out to me for comment on Reddit but apparently I was too late to respond
03:10:00 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: The message should be that there is NO NEED to use view key-style auditing for the vast majority of cases
03:10:04 <needmoney91> irccloud has been down for 4 hours btw
03:10:12 <needmoney91> might want to wait til its back up before talking too in depth
03:10:27 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: Yeah hence why Discord is easiest for me :p
03:10:27 <needmoney91> loooots of people aren't able to connect
03:10:45 <needmoney91> im using an alias so you don't know who I am
03:11:06 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: irccloud costs too much money for it to be this unreliable
03:11:25 <needmoney91> 4 hours is really bad.
03:11:33 <needmoney91> after 15 minutes I'd swapped to an alt client
03:13:08 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: Anyway xmrhaelan, the reason no one has done this and why no one cares to do this is because the idea of using view keys would be horrible in practice
03:14:05 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: And your process as you suggest it is not aligned with what FinCEN actually wants anyway
03:20:51 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Please explain.
03:21:12 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Why is it an argument I have heard many times if it actually is not recommended?
03:22:08 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> And what does FinCEN want that it wouldn’t provide?
03:22:14 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Feel free to answer later
03:34:43 <gingeropolous> my znc bouncer still running on a 2$ vps...
03:35:02 <gingeropolous> though ive never been sure if its actually giving me scrollback
06:59:23 <ErCiccione[m]> Xmrhaelan: My opinion is that many interested in monero don't care about compliance and i'm one of those. I think the place for this discussion is the dedicated workgroup (that you already contacted) and i wouldn't make it something community wide. It would give a very bad feeling: "this tech is revolutionary and can change the world! But only if we get the right authorizations.." :P
10:05:09 <Mumuks[m]> ErCiccione: agreed
10:06:25 <Mumuks[m]> I don't understand the people that says compliance is the way to success for crypto. Bitcoin only became big when it started being used for illegal activities. The Silk Road market is what made Bitcoin big in the first place, not compliance.
10:07:45 <Mumuks[m]> Because if crypto is going to comply with everything bureocrats ask, why not use fiat? If using crypto is going to be as encumbered as fiat because of compliance, then what is the advantage of crypto?
10:16:15 <ErCiccione[m]> Yeah i totally agree it's the opposite. Compliance is the way to kill crypto as we know it.
12:44:00 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: I personally think some compliance is sensible, and meeting regulators part-way will reduce the chances of them imposing some overkill regulations
12:46:45 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: In any case though, that's what monero-compliance is for
12:47:05 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] sgp#7572>: And irccloud still dead
13:23:17 <Mumuks[m]> You can be compliant at the exchange level to deal with fiat obviously, but the protocol level should be completely clean
14:36:15 <xmrmatterbridge> <sgp_> Mumuks[m]: I don's think there's any disagreement there
15:24:56 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] GoodEnough#2932>: Does anyone here have a working WeChat account?
15:25:34 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] GoodEnough#2932>: ChainTalkTV wants to do a Monero AMA and I volunteered to help out, but can’t get a verified WeChat account without an existing user verifying me for their AMA, and they weren’t able to.
15:26:34 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] GoodEnough#2932>: I normally wouldn’t touch WeChat with a ten foot pole but wanted to do the AMA for some visibility and then delete my account right after.
15:42:22 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> testing
15:43:14 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> I don't like the idea of using bridged accounts, since it muddies the waters on which accounts/nicks are legitimate
15:43:23 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> But anyway, I claim to be sarang via mattermost
15:44:46 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> Apparently "IRCCloud" should be renamed "IRCSinglePointOfFailure"
15:44:50 <dEBRUYNE> GoodEnough: Think you will have more chance by making a Reddit thread
15:47:40 <bemore> I've seen a fake stoffu account running around on Discord before... maybe an admirer?
15:49:41 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> Anyway, only the freenode sarang nick is guaranteed to be legitimate, so take this bridge account with a grain of salt (once IRCCloud comes back online, I can verify)
15:50:01 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> I only created this account for today's lab meeting
15:50:18 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> I suspect it will be low attendance unless IRCSinglePointOfFailure gets back up
15:54:55 <xmrmatterbridge> <sgp_> I contacted Bitrefill asking them to support XMR, saying that adding it wouldn't just be adding another altcoin
15:54:55 <fluffypony> looks like IRCCloud should be back up within a few hours
15:55:07 <xmrscott[m]> Oof
15:56:38 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> They said they can't use any of the major cloud providers due to their connection requirements
15:56:54 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> But even so, it's clear that relying on (apparently) a single ISP is not sufficient
15:57:08 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> This is the second major outage in not too long
15:59:49 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] GoodEnough#2932>: Thanks Debruyne I’ll try that!
16:04:00 <xmrmatterbridge> <sgp_> does anyone happen to know someone at bitrefill? I'm having a look around to see if I met someone when I was in Stockholm
16:05:37 <rdymac_> I only know the ones working from South America
16:05:52 <rdymac_> maybe they can connect you?
16:15:10 <dEBRUYNE> You're welcome
16:50:19 <xmrmatterbridge> <sgp_> rdymac_: sure, anything helps :)
18:08:39 <rdymac_> hmm how do I DM you here if you are in Mattermost(?) ?
18:46:38 <xmrmatterbridge> <sgp_> rdymac_: maybe easier to dm sgp_ when irccloud comes online
19:29:17 <selsta> looks like IRCCloud is back
19:40:55 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> not fully
19:41:04 <xmrmatterbridge> <sarang> My clients still can't connect
19:44:24 <needmoney91> Sarang: Upper right corner
19:44:27 <needmoney91> oh there
19:44:28 <needmoney91> yeah
19:44:31 <needmoney91> you can disconnect/reconnect
19:45:17 <sarang> testing
19:45:17 <monerobux> Test failed
19:45:22 <needmoney91> :(
19:45:23 <sarang> -___-
19:45:24 <sgp_> Woo-hoo, Monero community is alive and well
19:45:28 <sarang> cool, back
19:45:36 <sarang> FWIW the xmrmatterbridge user sarang was me
19:46:59 <sgp_> What??????
19:47:06 <sgp_> :p
19:47:17 <sarang> Hey, gotta confirm these things
19:47:24 <sarang> We had a CCS faked a while back
19:47:31 <rottensox> you should've uploaded a selfie holding a mango up, to make sure it is you.
19:47:31 <sarang> Because nobody checked initially
19:48:32 <needmoney91> photo with boot on head
19:49:28 <sarang> I hear a lot of people use(d) keybase for securely listing account connections, but they sold out to zoom, because reasons
19:49:34 <sarang> I have zero interest in using that
19:49:48 <sgp_> I want to test Jami
19:49:53 <sarang> what is that
19:50:01 <sgp_> jami.net
19:50:03 <sarang> Right now I use my github profile blurb to list my other accounts
19:50:09 <sarang> that seems legit enough
19:50:25 <sgp_> Ah you mean for that. Use your own website I guess
19:50:38 <sgp_> Hosted on GitHub anyway :p
19:50:49 <sarang> heh
19:51:01 <sarang> It is a fascinating problem to think about
19:52:59 <sarang> So Jami is what exactly?
19:53:10 <sarang> Its fancy web page has so many fancy icons
19:53:32 <sarang> The people in the blurred photo are all smiling, so it must be good
19:56:47 <sgp_> Looks like a Signal competitor
20:03:11 <sgp_> Anyone who wants to add me to try it out, my username is jehrenhofer
20:07:24 <xmrscott[m]> Oh hey
20:07:33 <xmrscott[m]> People talking about Jami, excellent
20:08:01 <xmrscott[m]> Jami is basically a text/voice/video client
20:08:42 <xmrscott[m]> So perhaps more akin to Wire than Signal given the video functionality
20:09:00 <xmrscott[m]> Which also makes it better, IMO
20:09:12 <xmrscott[m]> sarang:  ^
20:09:42 <xmrscott[m]> (Mainly because it's geared towards 1:1 comms)
20:20:24 <sgp_> xmrscott[m]: honestly I'll probably continue using Google Duo for A/V calls unless Jami allows for really nice, dynamic groups
20:21:13 <sgp_> we've all been there where we want to add someone to a specific call but either you need to make a new room or bug every single person in a broad room when you want to call 2, maybe 3 people
20:28:08 <xmrscott[m]> Yeah, Jami doesn't support anything beyond 1:1 ATM, not sure if it's in the roadmap offhand to change that
20:30:07 <xmrscott[m]> It's basically what I found in my reoccuring search over the past 1.5 years for something that will run on Linux mobile when I make the jump next month and allow secure 1:1 comms to family/friends using Android still. I don't really do group calls on my phone, but hopefully a solution happens sooner than later
20:31:01 <xmrscott[m]> My money would be likely something Matrix based given how embedded Matrix seems to be on emerging stock comms apps, but it's likely to be pretty rough
20:38:37 <sgp_> Signal has supported video for a while just fyi
20:50:42 <niocbrrrrrr> https://twitter.com/_geonic/status/1277669767269113858
21:18:13 <xmrscott[m]> Ah ok, good to know. Signal has basically forced Purism to create a Signal client for Linux mobile, so any efforts to use Signal on Linux mobile are likely to require Purism which isn't a high priority compared to Purism's XMPP+Matrix related clients ATM
21:43:22 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] Kayla#5718>: can i be a shill for just a sec?
21:43:31 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] Kayla#5718>: about the librem 5
21:43:55 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] Kayla#5718>: is like super expensive while: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ is just $150 (received mine today UwU)
22:15:18 <xmrscott[m]> Understandable. Different business models. Purism owns HW+SW stack so it can be RYC certed by FSF + higher specs while Pine64 has given SW stack to whoever
22:17:12 <xmrscott[m]> I ordered Librem5, but have been waiting for a pmOS or KDE Neon CE Pinephone (not a fan of Unity) to see if I can gift to family who don't need a smart phone (e.g. grandparents). pmOS goes up for PO soon, so hopefully have by late August to experiment with
22:18:37 <xmrscott[m]> Let me know what you think of yours since the Pinephone blog won't be out for another week. Excited to see people start hacking away on them. UwU