Can we just have Signal not use phone numbers and all use Signal please? Thanks.

There is way too many apps.

Check out Session messenger. Fork of Signal with Loki (cool fork of Monero) under the hood

(I started testing it a few months ago)

If you wanna test, hmu at 052e64db7c7eb5c891c7df4ea0005f7af00b1ede469478befb8f5939de58832d3a

re: Blockonomy's ratings

something something opinion something something facts

Isthmus: I tried Session a few months ago and it was riddled with bugs

30

good bot

Reminder that there is no community meeting this Saturday. It's the following Saturday

We will take communities place at the table, by having a village meeting instead. And we will stick out our tongues.

would pushing for adoption by sex workers be a negative thing, reinforcing the "monero = crime" memes?

they seem to have similar problems with banking as marijuana businesses do

also, without a fully circular economy, would it even help?

I guess it is a bit different, as sex work is legalized in quite a few countries in Europe

<xmrscott[m] "My money would be likely somethi"> Riot for Android is releasing the new client soon. It is in beta right now in the playstore.

What else do you find rough in Matrix/Riot for tour family?

dEBRUYNE: good point, it's not about crime, it's about an overbearing banking system

unfortunately for the funds to be usable, they need to be able to pay Drs and other expenses in fiat

<hyc "unfortunately for the funds to b"> How realistic is to claim the monero come from some online service, and not disclose sex work? For justifying the funds in the exchange

good question. seems to me that ought to be easy to do, dunno

Of course, ideally you want a circular economy where you don't need fiat, but that will take a while and until then we need to be chasing niches with a way to convert to fiat

If these people can't get bank accounts I don't know how to help them

I mean, assume they start getting paid in XMR, either rom donation drives or from clients

then they need to use some exchanger, instant, DE, or otherwise, to get back to fiat

but unless they're doing in-person, or people are sending cash thru the mail, they can't get it back to fiat in their pocket

hyc: imo it's best to target these campaigns in jurisdictions where it is legal

fair enouh

wiki says it's legal in Ireland but they have problems yet (???)

I know sex work is a somewhat political issue here in the US, where some people think it should be legal

sech1: in Ireland i think they decriminalised the supping of sex work

*supply

but the buying of "services" remains illegal

this was an "ethical issue" regarding policing, the law, and continual harming the vulnerable, etc

yep

legalization of sex work has been shown again and again to dramatically improve the lives of everyone involved

however, there is a difference between enabling a "dark network" and lobbying for a humanitarian cause

... ctrl+z is not undo, ctrl+z is not undo

I've briefly talked with some people from the Outreach group before, they seemed very interested on being completely unconnected to any sort of political cause

I think that's a mistake since this foundation of this project is on censorship, things are typically censored for political reasons

I suppose there's a risk of being on the wrong side of a power play

but fwiw, I would strongly support an Outreach effort that had a goal of improving sex worker rights

anyway, I have reached out to this organization, speaking as an individual

and in general, I think that's the best way to go - people reach out as individuals, not as sanctioned representatives of any workgroup

I guess I'm still catching up to the kind of things that are in place here. I'm just imaging a group of people doing work on a central topic.

collaboration is typically helpful

if anyone is interested, this is a good review: trivihal-positivo.es/COLECTIVOS/pro…%20%20Harm%20Reduction%20LANCET.pdf

cool thx for link

I assume there should eventually be a blog post about the CLSAG audit results?

yes

I can write one up

There were many suggestions for the paper, but none that resulted in security problems or changes to the implementation

and I've since updated the paper with improved security model and proofs to address those suggestions

Will the reviewers also write a blog post, or simply an elaborate report will be published?

Regardless, I think it will be beneficial to have a short blog-post on our website

The reviewers will provide us (and OSTIF) with a final report

OSTIF typically publishes their own blog post too, which would presumably be coordinated to be at the same time as ours

The overall conclusion is that the CLSAG construction is secure and suitable for the use case, and implemented well

Ok cool

I guess next steps are to finalize the pull request and start working on the next major release

+ a scheduled protocol upgrade date

We still need Ledger/Trezor support

I'm reaching out again today to inquire about that

Upgrading without that support would cause a lot of headaches

IMO having testnet available for that for a while will be essential

wasn’t Ledger / Trezor support already worked on?

being worked on

But they have their own timelines and processes

ok

Fortunately there are no code changes needed that would affect their existing work

The only code suggestions are optional and informational, and TBH don't really seem worth it

which is a great problem to have :)

and all the preprint proof updates have been completed and posted to IACR already

They did recommend continuing to implement unit and fuzz testing, but that's something that can always be improved

and there weren't any specific suggestions on that front

Anyway, I assume their final report will be ready within a few days; there were some misunderstandings that they are updating so the report is accurate

just minor things

sarang: Yeah that essentially is part of the 'start working on the next major release' part

We need to communicate with wallet providers for a timeline that gives them sufficient time to upgrade

for sure

This is a pretty big update, so IMO no need to rush things

Give plenty of time for testing and implementation work

I guess end of the year might be a realistic date

Once I hear back from the Ledger and Trezor teams, that could give a much better timeline

since that's development beyond just "update your wallet software"

I wish there were a better way to communicate with major ecosystem players

like the major exchanges, etc.

My only regret is not giving CLSAG a cooler name :/

Has there been any talk about the release name?

"Oxygen Octans"

The idea of an octant being a fraction of a circle seems nicely in line with cutting transaction size and time down significantly

Bro

End of year? That's so sad. Maybe October or something.

Monero does things so cautiously. It's good, but it's frustrating in some ways cuz we have such good stuff. :P

I think it will be earlier than EOY

Oxygen Ogma

Named after Ogma, a deity in Celtic mythology

It was a cautious target :p

dEBRUYNE: to be extra safe you should have said 2030

;p

Have you guys thought about implementing some features like the incentivized onion routing protocol like in Loki? Personally I like the idea of Loki trying to integrate several privacy technologies in one ecosystem(tor,i2p,signal) , but I dont like some of their core principles.

rehrar: any updates on your job accomplishments, tasks, or whatever?

Haven't started writing yet. Needing to talk with core about a few details.

what have you worked on this week?

BackHub, new branding for the Monero Village (emphasizing the digital), starting to touch up the site, working with Doug on something new and fun that we're going to reveal here in the next couple of days or so

I took Sunday off too.

Maybe I should upload time sheets.

I don’t think you should upload time sheets :P

But a broad summary at the end of month would be appreciated.

Kinda similar to other CCS.

I like sarang's weekly updates during the MRL meetings

barking up the wrong tree here, take it up with core and #leaverehraralone :D

Aw shucks, thanks sgp_

as opposed to #watchrehrarwhilehesleeps coalition

<3

lol

O__o

I'll be honest, I won't be tripping over myself to report to you all every week. Monthly sounds fine.

But I do as the core commands

tell'em rehrar

guys wait

we're doing all of the wrong things

Monero Tik Tok

who wants to run?

tik tok is banned

gen Z weeps in the streets

AS THE CORE COMMANDS!

rehrar we already have a side project

D:

That's what I was talking about.

:O

I found a temporary laptop while i wait for a more stable one. Tomorrow i'll set it up and maybe i'll be able to be back in few days, even if with a limited setup.

Introducing Monero.FM!

domain doesn't take you anywhere yet. :P

read the pad

why two licenses? wouldn't SoundExchange be enough?

Performance license is different from an umbrella license

You need both :/

> The royalties SoundExchange collects and distributes are for the featured artist and the sound recording copyright owner. ASCAP, BMI and SESAC collect and distribute royalties for the songwriter, composer and publisher for the musical composition.

Music licensing is whack

gotta pay the artist, recording copyright owner, songwriter, composer, and publisher

and from what I can find that can't be done through one entity

so double license.

rehrar and I are very new at this, so if you know any way around that (that costs less) I'm all ears

I think there are companies that bundle all of that, but they charge an extra fee

have you looked at live365.com

We haven't

"By broadcasting with Live365, your station is covered for transmissions in the USA, Canada, and the UK"

A few concerns

bitrate is low, which sucks

the TLH is also concerning

low package says unlimited listeners, yet you only get 1500 TLH per month

TLH?

total listener hours

Heh, each of your bazillion listeners gets half a second

at 720 hours in a month, that gives us just over 2 concurrent users before we start hitting overages

Which, as you can imagine, concerns me more than a little.

So a bad actor could cause overage fees

Their fee schedules dont really point out that fact

Not good

its just like "hey $70/month"

Heh, I'm sure they don't want to remind people of overages...

"1500 TLH"

"unlimited listeners!"

then I have to google for wtf TLH is

It's like ISPs... "fastest throughput!" *coughtinydatacap*

needp2pstreaming90

because they sure as heck don't mention it on that page

So yeah, am I reading that page wrong or is this live365 thing fishing for overage fees

That appears to confirm my suspicions

for $200/month we can have a whopping 8 concurrent users

before worrying about overages

._.

that really sucks

At $200/month for 8 concurrent users though, that starts approaching what we were looking for anyways (in costs) annually

well. For one year. Hopefully its self sustaining by then.

Maybe this is why you don't see many new radio stations...

Well yeah licensing is a bitch

also we have a distinct advantage in that we have no personnel costs

even $10/hour gets pricey for radio stations if you've got to support it

we're kinda able to run barebones

I remember reading about how Pandora was operating, and the crazy costs for different types and classifications of streaming

it seemed nutso

We're running single-channel non-interactive

or pseudo-noninteractive, at least

heh

so our costs are much lower

ehm, just host it anonymously from russia

dsc_: gary will do it in north korea. he even guarantees 6 nines of uptime! (0.0999999%)

And associate it with the pure name of Monero?

I wouldnt dare'

gotta be above board

So, any thoughts here wowario? Either on still considering live365, double licensing, or otherwise

or anyone else for that matter

once we've got a bit of feedback we can put it up as a proposed CCS for more discussion

Spotify is provides an extremely good service for $15/month if you're looking for a comprehensive library with ad-free stream.

:o

bemore: support.spotify.com/us/account_paym…-my-bar-restaurant-store-school-etc

Spotify is personal use only, can't rehost the music

It does not count as having the rights to the music.

Public Broadcast Radio, crypto style? take that $1,300 music aquisition cost and pay people for giving talks, play classical in the downtime

i see potential, but I like my spotify :P

Welcome to "Deep Dive Into Security Models" with your host, sarang

^^^^

Can't sleep? Listen to "Deep Dive Into Security Modeles"

with your host

sarang

not like we have a lack of music options

It'd be fun to give a super basic talk on the idea of security proofs

and how you can wrap algorithms to break known hardness assumptions

The whole idea is so freaking interesting

even without the mathy details

great for sleeping are lectures by Leonard Susskind, not because he is boring but instead his voice

I used to listen to a podcast called Sleep With Me where a librarian with a super soothing voice would just talk about random inconsequential things for like an hour

He called himself your "borefriend"