-
xmrscott[m]
freenode_cassact[m]: Most likely registration, I think
-
xmrscott[m]
As in you need to register handle via the IRC services you bridge to AKA /msg NickServ
-
xmrscott[m]
-
cassact[m]1
i need to register my personal handle or I need to register the bridge?
-
xmrscott[m]
Your handle
-
xmrscott[m]
Under 'Direct Messages' (at least for Riot client) check to see if you have anything of note from ChanServ or NickServ
-
cassact[m]1
Sure. "PLEASE NOTE: there is a persistent scammer who impersonates well-known IRC users by slightly modifying their nickname"
-
cassact[m]1
is what it says
-
xmrscott[m]
Do you have anything from NickServ?
-
xmrscott[m]
Actually an easy way to see if you need to have a registered name, just download HexChat and try talking on #monero
-
cassact[m]1
dont see anything from nickserv, but I think I figured out the issue.
-
xmrscott[m]
Coolio
-
kayront
sgp_: I guess it'll only ever become obvious to the masses when mixed BTC begin regularly being halted at points of exchanges and intrusive questions asked .. already heard of several services doing this, and of course they would, what is the point of doing chain surveillance otherwise
-
kayront
i really can't wrap my mind around why so many people go through all the extra steps, then spend money in tx fees for all the mixing, then gotta be super careful about mixing things back together again by mistake, when Monero just.. works
-
ErCiccione
-
monerobux
[REDDIT] Let's improve the Monero FAQ page on GetMonero. What questions/answers should we add? (self.Monero) | 1 points (100.0%) | 0 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2020-06-06 - 09:17:52
-
gingeropolous
i wonder if there's a way to redirect technical temporally limited questions to the github from stackexchange
-
gingeropolous
i.e., there have been (and there probably will be) a lot of questions that are valid for some give period of monero software but not another
-
gingeropolous
and those q&a's in the SE will ultimately muddy the information base
-
gingeropolous
unless everyone has the intuition to only look for things within the past 6 months etc
-
gingeropolous
i dunno. maybe its appropriate. or maybe tags should be used to indicate monero version
-
asymptotically
gingeropolous: have you seen github's upcoming discussions feature?
-
ErCiccione
Yeah gingeropolous that's why i don't like too much linking to SE, better have a good FAQ On the website that we can keep updated
-
ErCiccione
I'm not really familiar with SE tho, so maybe there is a way to filter
-
gingeropolous
its moderated, so its up to mods and participants
-
dEBRUYNE
Answers can be edited though on the SE to reflect the current situation
-
dEBRUYNE
And posts can be deleted if needed
-
sgp_
I agree it's better to have a separate resource outside of SE
-
sgp_
But SE is super useful for a catch-all
-
sgp_
Website is much more likely to be referenced by news, media, etc
-
sgp_
Meeting in 30
-
sgp_
0. Introduction
-
sgp_
We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
-
sgp_
Link to agenda on GitHub:
monero-project/meta #471
-
sgp_
Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
-
sgp_
1. Greetings
-
ErCiccione
Hi folks
-
msvb-mob
Hello.
-
kinghat[m]
o/
-
binaryFate
hello!
-
sgp_
ping needbrrrrrrr90 sarang
-
sarang
Hi
-
xmrmatterbridge
<deedledea> Hi!
-
sgp_
hello everyone :)
-
sgp_
2. Community highlights
-
sgp_
See Monero weekly highlights at
revuo-monero.com
-
sgp_
Check out resources at
communityworkgroup.org. It also has a calendar you can subscribe to for meeting reminders.
-
sgp_
-
sgp_
If we have time during open ideas time, please comment on what you want to use it for.
-
sgp_
Diego spoke about Monero at the Messari’s Mainnet 2020 conference. Hopefully they eventually distribute a recording.
-
sgp_
Does anyone have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
-
sgp_
3. CCS updates
-
sgp_
Funding required:
-
sgp_
Norwegian translation of webplate, footers, nav. Menu (1.16 / 6 XMR)
ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/Norwegian_translation_core.html
-
sgp_
Research post-quantum strategies for Monero (550.06 / 576 XMR)
ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/research-post-quantum-monero.html
-
sgp_
Ideas (to be discussed):
-
sgp_
-
sgp_
-
monerobux
[REDDIT] [CCS Proposal] Lets add support for swedish in to monero cli wallet (self.Monero) | 21 points (82.0%) | 5 comments | Posted by writesofrust | Created at 2020-05-30 - 18:43:13
-
sgp_
no comments on this one?
-
binaryFate
I don't see much value either, but don't see a reason not to pass it on to funding required
-
binaryFate
donors can decide
-
binaryFate
3 XMR is very small, maybe it is a good test run of the CCS system by that person if nothing else
-
sgp_
is the gui and website already translated?
-
ErCiccione
Not a big fan of that proposal. We don't even know about past experiences as translator and the proposal itself seems quite lazily written
-
ErCiccione
let me check that
-
sgp_
if they have no past contributions, I think that's a reason to not advance
-
ErCiccione
We don't have the website in swedish. We have the GUI, which is almost fully translated
-
ErCiccione
i'm fine with people not having past experience with monero if they show some credentials
-
sgp_
did they show any?
-
ErCiccione
To my knowledge, no.
-
ErCiccione
but we didn't ask either
-
sgp_
I guess the proposal is on hold then until that is resolved
-
sgp_
final comments on this one?
-
sgp_
second one:
-
sgp_
-
sarang
I'll revisit the amount prior to opening (if this is decided)
-
sgp_
I highly doubt anyone will comment against this one
-
binaryFate
go go go!!!
-
sgp_
indeed
-
sarang
Happy to take questions here or as CCS comments
-
ErCiccione
I already left a thumb up on the MR
-
sgp_
7 thumbs up now
-
sgp_
I think we can proceed since this obviously has universal support
-
sarang
I'll check on the amount first
-
sgp_
of course
-
sarang
So please don't merge just yet
-
binaryFate
sarang did you discuss with luigi1111 about the proposed "stable USD amount" buffer?
-
sarang
It was briefly mentioned, but not really in any more detail
-
binaryFate
Let's discuss and finalize decision before you adapt amount
-
sarang
ok
-
binaryFate
(decision might be not to use it, no pressure!)
-
sgp_
-
sgp_
Teserakt has already done half of the audit on their own decision
-
monerobux
Test failed
-
binaryFate
lol
-
sgp_
no comments?
-
niocbrrrrrr
!donate [undisclosed_amount]
-
niocbrrrrrr
please and thank you
-
sgp_
haha nice
-
sgp_
Any other CCS comments before we move on?
-
sgp_
4. Workgroup report
-
sgp_
is selsta here?
-
selsta
yes
-
sgp_
sweet
-
sgp_
a. Daemon/CLI/GUI workgroup
-
sgp_
go ahead :)
-
selsta
Will have to think :P
-
selsta
v0.16 was a smooth release and with no major problems.
-
selsta
I think we can soon prepare v0.17 with CLSAG
-
sgp_
selsta: do you have an ideal release date for 0.17? since it will require a hardfork
-
ErCiccione
Good job btw. People are super happy with the new GUI and CLI
-
selsta
Not yet.
-
selsta
I want to release at least 1 month before the hardfork time.
-
kinghat[m]
ya the gui is sexy af
-
sgp_
do you want it to happen before this fall?
-
selsta
I would guess hardfork 2 months after the audit is done but that might be too optimistic.
-
sarang
There will need to be Trezor/Ledger support in place from those teams
-
sarang
and they'll probably want a testnet to try it out on
-
selsta
We have to give exchanges and other wallets enough time to update.
-
dEBRUYNE
Bear in mind that CLSAG also requires changes from wallet providers
-
dEBRUYNE
Thus, we have to allow for more time arguably
-
selsta
yep
-
selsta
We are also thinking about signing the windows and macOS release but that might be a better topic for the dev meeting
-
selsta
code certificate signing*
-
ErCiccione
yeah. The problem with the antiviruses needs to be at list mitigated somehow. Really bad UX
-
selsta
might no not possible to mitigate, but we will see
-
kinghat[m]
did one of those hw wallets monero integration get promoted to "full" or "proper" vs just being a side thing?
-
selsta
you mean ledger?
-
kinghat[m]
im not sure 🤔
-
sarang
Ledger
-
sarang
I'm in contact with the person now in charge of that
-
selsta
I did not read from the announcement that they will work on Ledger Live.
-
sarang
I do not know any details on that
-
selsta
anyway I’m done with the workgroup update
-
sgp_
thanks selsta!
-
selsta
oh and one more thing
-
selsta
google might add monero to their open source fuzzer:
google/oss-fuzz #3941
-
sarang
IIRC moneromooo has been updating the fuzz tests in the codebase
-
sgp_
sweet
-
selsta
this will help at find bugs in the monero codebase
-
selsta
finding*
-
selsta
ok done now
-
sgp_
thanks!
-
sgp_
b. Localization workgroup
-
sgp_
ErCiccione any update?
-
ErCiccione
Not much. About 50 people contributed to translate the GUI release
-
kinghat[m]
-
kinghat[m]
> Why? Until now Monero was still maintained as R&D project by myself. It is now moving in the coin integration team and will reach a new state level. That's as a good news.
-
monerobux
[REDDIT] Ledger Monero App: New lead dev! (self.Monero) | 149 points (100.0%) | 38 comments | Posted by cslashm | Created at 2020-06-04 - 16:21:05
-
ErCiccione
It's a good number, the highest amount of translators for a release was 60 IIRC, but don't quote me on that
-
sarang
kinghat[m]: I've been recently put in touch with the dev who's now in charge of that
-
sarang
I've reached out to get information on their required/desired timeline for a network upgrade
-
sarang
waiting to hear back
-
ErCiccione
also, Weblate is starting to catch up. People are using it every day and we have about 150 people on the platform
-
ErCiccione
-
ErCiccione
beside that, not much to report
-
kinghat[m]
sorry for the interruption ErCiccione.
-
ErCiccione
no problem :)
-
sgp_
glad to hear so many people helped with 0.16
-
sgp_
c. Outreach workgroup
-
sgp_
Monero Outreach recently shared their “We Accept Monero” campaign:
monerooutreach.org/we-accept-monero.html
-
sgp_
d. Website workgroup
-
sgp_
lots of cool changes here :)
-
ErCiccione
Yeah there is a lot of stuff in progress
-
ErCiccione
-
monerobux
[REDDIT] Let's improve the Monero FAQ page on GetMonero. What questions/answers should we add? (self.Monero) | 35 points (95.0%) | 7 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2020-06-06 - 09:17:52
-
ErCiccione
I think we should improve the FAQ adding as many qestions as possible
-
ErCiccione
if anybody has ideas, please post them on reddit or open an issue
-
sgp_
SE is definitely a good place to start
-
ErCiccione
or write here if you want but there is a higher chance of me forgetting it :P
-
ErCiccione
sgp_ i used it when i remade the faq, but now i wanted to add questions that people are asking now
-
selsta
I don’t think trying to replace SE with the website FAQ makes sense. (Not sure if that’s the intention)
-
ErCiccione
I don't intend to replace SE at all. I just think that the website should be more a point of reference. Because people are more likely to look for answers there
-
sgp_
not replacing SE
-
selsta
A lot of people google their question and get redirected to SE / Reddit. I doubt that many people will read to a huge FAQ but maybe that’s just my opinion.
-
selsta
through*
-
sgp_
this is mostly for media/journalists imo
-
midipoet
what's the story with #monero-defcon
-
sgp_
better for them to reference the site than SE
-
selsta
But a FAQ makes sense in general, yes.
-
dEBRUYNE
SE has quite good SEO fwiw
-
dEBRUYNE
They will often appear on top for a search
-
msvb-mob
midipoet: What do you mean what's the story with #monero-defcon?
-
sgp_
SE is good if someone googles a specific question
-
sgp_
FAQ is good if someone goes digging
-
msvb-mob
midipoet: I see now, let me try to fix that.
-
selsta
IMO FAQ is more for general questions about Monero, not too technical things.
-
sgp_
yeah agreed
-
ErCiccione
selsta: yep, that's my point
-
midipoet
msvb-mob: thankyou!
-
kayront
question, there was some talk months ago about ring sizes increasing to epic quantities, is that still on the table?
-
kayront
(hi everyone!)
-
sgp_
kayront: not with clsags
-
sgp_
longer term
-
ErCiccione
For who is not aware of that. I'm changing the homepage, you are welcome to review and participate to the dicussion:
monero-project/monero-site #948
-
ErCiccione
oh almost forgot
-
ErCiccione
We are working on implementing the netlify previews on getmonero
-
kayront
sgp_: years?
-
ErCiccione
Basically every time somebody open a PR, netlify will build it and show a preview. That's useful because people without a building environment can see how a PR will look like once merged
-
ErCiccione
-
ErCiccione
That's something i look forward to and i hope will help increasing the activity on the monero-site repo
-
dEBRUYNE
kayront: Realistically I think Triptych is 1-1.5 years out
-
sarang
There are still some questions on multisig support due to some different math
-
msvb-lab
midipoet: You (and all of us) can now again access #monero-defcon.
-
midipoet
msvb-lab: thank you :-).
-
selsta
ErCiccione: useful :D
-
ErCiccione
i made a test PR that people can use as example
-
ErCiccione
-
midipoet
msvb-lab: there might still be a permissions issue...as I get an error trying to post a message
-
binaryFate
ErCiccione I'll get to the netlify thing tomorrow
-
ErCiccione
I PRd the edited homepage. You can see netlify's comment with a link
-
ErCiccione
that's the PR built and deployed
-
ErCiccione
thanks binaryfate :)
-
sarang
ErCiccione: any practical risk of an attacker fooling someone into thinking it's the real site?
-
sarang
I suppose such an attacker could just deploy their own clone of the code, and the domain is netlify...
-
kayront
asked this in -dev several mins ago before realizing there's a meeting going on, does anyone know if this would be possible: " another thing: would it technically be possible to have an "account viewkey", rather than a wallet-wide one? use cases would be services that require the viewkey to confirm payments, generate addresses etc, this is a fairly common use case; and for simplicity/backup/sanity reasons it's helpful to only have one
-
kayront
underlying seed"
-
ErCiccione
unlikely IMO
-
ErCiccione
but even if they do think it's the real website, there are no downloads
-
ErCiccione
and the links are hard to mistake. The homepage for example is built here:
deploy-preview-17--frosty-jones-8df25a.netlify.app
-
sgp_
thanks ErCiccione
-
sgp_
anything else on the website?
-
sgp_
sarang: can you quickly give an update on MRL?
-
ErCiccione
don't think so
-
sarang
Sure
-
sarang
The CLSAG audit process is proceeding nicely
-
» midipoet realises there was a meeting
-
sarang
I spent quite a bit of time re-running and correcting some tracing analysis that came out in a preprint
-
sarang
The results are much better than the preprint had suggested
-
sgp_
that was just a class project afaict
-
sarang
Yes, but it got some attention and was a good excuse to run updated analysis anyway
-
sgp_
thanks sarang
-
sgp_
there's one topic ErCiccione wanted to discuss at the meeting
-
sgp_
ErCiccione asked to reserve some time to make a decision of using “reasonably” in the homepage:
monero-project/meta #471#issuecomment-639582413
-
sgp_
-
ErCiccione
yeah let's get done with that
-
sgp_
I think it should be removed
-
sgp_
it doesn't convey the nuances it attempted to convey imo
-
ErCiccione
I liked it, but i see why people prefer to have it removed. If it's controversial, let's just remove it
-
ErCiccione
people wanted to change "slogan" anyway, no?
-
sgp_
yeah there were other ideas too
-
kayront
fwiw i think it reads a bit like a cop-out
-
xmrmatterbridge
<deedledea> +1 for removing it
-
kayront
i understand the idea behind it, but for the uninitiated it probably reads more like "it's probably not gonna keep my stuff private"
-
sarang
The idea was that privacy and security always depend on risk and threat models
-
sgp_
who gets that from "reasonably" though if they don't already get that
-
sarang
understood
-
binaryFate
remove it please, it's only in geek circles that people might get the honest meaning. We're very honest if people dig more, no need to confuse on the homepage
-
kayront
yeah sarang, iirc QubesOS used/uses "reasonably secure" as well, in reality that's what it is because nothing can be 100% safe
-
kayront
but for new people the nuance will be lost i reckon
-
sgp_
any final comments?
-
sarang
I'm not tied to that specific wording. As long as the presentation is honest and reasonable
-
sgp_
okay, we can wrap up then. thanks for your patience as we went over
-
sgp_
6. Confirm next meeting date/time
-
sgp_
The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 20 June at 17:00 UTC.
-
sgp_
The next Coffee Chat is on Saturday 27 June at 17:00 UTC
-
sgp_
Conclusion
-
ErCiccione
alright, i'll remove it tomorrow
-
sgp_
That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, STAY SAFE AND ISOLATED, and know that change starts with YOU.
-
binaryFate
Thanks sgp_ and all
-
kinghat[m]
would it be possible for the ccs or core to setup bounties for things the project thinks it wasnt vs what community members thinks it needs as it currently is?
-
kinghat[m]
example, the project needed repo builds, and the charlatan stepped up, but what if the project put a bounty on it and promoted it?
-
msvb-lab
Thanks sgp, great meeting.
-
kinghat[m]
if a person takes up the project and complete it they can decide to keep the bounty or give it back to the project.
-
kinghat[m]
instead of randomly having ccs proposals for translations, just pay out for translations.
-
selsta
Who would fund these bounties?
-
kinghat[m]
"the fund" 🤷♂️
-
kinghat[m]
im not saying do away with the ccs either. thats great for innovation from the community that the project isnt even thinking about.
-
kinghat[m]
but we know that we will need translations for the next release.
-
selsta
I don’t think the project has funds to pay every single contributor a bounty.
-
dEBRUYNE
Bit late, but +1 for removal
-
dEBRUYNE
'Reasonably' should be removed and a link should be added to some kind of disclaimer page where we describe in more detail that Monero is not perfect
-
selsta
The current CCS has the benefit of that there is a bit of friction, one has to write a proposal, get feedback etc. This has the benefit of filtering out low effort proposals.
-
xmr-pr
[meta] michaesc opened issue #473: Monero Village Meeting: 13 June 2020, 17:00 UTC
-
xmr-pr
-
kinghat[m]
im not talking about for everything just bounties to bridge the gap between the ccs and non funded contributions. keep those and then also have bounties for things as well. maybe things with urgency.
-
kinghat[m]
that same friction would still be a thing in the drafting of the bounty by the ccs or core team or whatever.
-
selsta
What we can do is if a user setup a bounty themselves and says they will pay for X.
-
selsta
This bounty thing would work better if Monero had large funds by a dev fee / premine. AFAIK BISQ does that.
-
selsta
But we don’t so we have to be careful with what and how much we fund. AFAIK the current CCS is funded by community members and not the dev fund.
-
selsta
So I agree that there is a place for bounties but the core team can’t fund it from the dev fund.
-
kinghat[m]
the community could do monthly dev fund drives or something. maybe the community could control their own wallet and funding of these things like translations and what not 🤷♂️
-
selsta
FWIW I think the current translation system works great and is done by mostly volunteers.
-
selsta
50 translators on such a short timeframe is impressive.
-
selsta
There have been thoughts about a MRL fund.
-
kinghat[m]
it is. they could forego their payment.
-
kinghat[m]
however it's designed, that organisation could put a bounty on finishing up the qt issues with GUI repo builds in time for next release. might draw the attention of help that otherwise wouldn't have contributed or didn't have incentive to do so.
-
selsta
It might also result in low effort contributions so that they can get a bounty. The majority of contributors in the open source space are not financially motivated and monero is a good example for that in the crypto space.
-
selsta
Not trying to argue against your idea btw :P
-
selsta
Just have some concerns and had them in the past when this topic came up.
-
kinghat[m]
cant non-financially motivated contributions be low effort as well?
-
selsta
Yes but they wouldn’t have an incentive for it.
-
kinghat[m]
i feel like paying out of bounty would also bring more scrutiny as well.
-
selsta
Why?
-
kinghat[m]
because there is a transfer of value and the bounty would have to be examined for completion. there would be more 👀 on it as well 🤷♂️
-
selsta
For every bounty someone else has to do the extra unpaid work of a thorough review.
-
kinghat[m]
i mean we offer bug bounties dont we?
-
selsta
Yes but that’s not the same.
-
selsta
You want to incentivise people to report bugs instead of abusing them.
-
kinghat[m]
who and how are the ccs proposals reviewed?
-
niocbrrrrrr
where are meeting logs, on getmonero the most recent ones are from Oct
-
selsta
I don’t know about translations. Dev work is reviewed by the devs.
-
kinghat[m]
same for bounties then?
-
xmrscott[m]
For localization typically someone else reviews
-
xmrscott[m]
At least for the recent Nordic ones
-
xmrscott[m]
I think lui-gi's friend reviewed it or something like that
-
kinghat[m]
what about instead of all that, have an official or outreach/ccs combo type thing that creates noise about things the project needs, and to encourage people to open ccs proposals. or proposal "templates." like, "hey we really need x before the next release" if you have experience open up a ccs.
-
dsc_
xmrscott[m]: mario?
-
xmrscott[m]
Yes, let's go with that. I didn't want to ping him pointlessly, but still wanted to name drop him, so that was the first name that came to mind
-
kinghat[m]
the "template" idea is just the community creating the proposal vs the contributor. in the end, the criteria has to be met.
-
selsta
Similar to the ideas section on the previous forum?
-
selsta
-
selsta
It does not link to gitlab
-
kinghat[m]
selsta: im not sure. i never really used the forum.
-
selsta
The old forum had an extra step where others could pitch ideas.
-
kinghat[m]
whatever it is, it should be highly visible and "promoted".
-
kinghat[m]
i dont really see an issue with the ccs wg creating a proposal vs contributors creating their own ccs proposals as the current flow is and its effectively the same thing as a bounty.
-
kinghat[m]
* i dont really see an issue with the ccs wg creating a proposal vs contributors creating their own ccs proposals, as the current flow is, and its effectively the same thing as a bounty.
-
kinghat[m]
the wg could put a price on it, or leave it open for a person to come along and put their own price on it, or both and allow for negotiations. could even be open enough to allow for revisions of the bounty itself.
-
rehrar
selsta got it. I'll try to fix.
-
selsta
rehrar: also my CCS CSS change never got deployed :(
-
rehrar
your CCS CSS change
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rehrar
your CSC SSC SCS change?
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selsta
my margin fix for h1 headers
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selsta
also yep confusing
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rehrar
huh. It was merged.
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rehrar
I'll ask pigeons to do a ccs-front git pull
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rehrar
alright, pinged. Hopefully we can get that fixed.
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rehrar
:)
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selsta
nice
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rehrar
Check now selsta
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rehrar
All good?
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rehrar
Or maybe cache needs to be cleared for the site?
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selsta
guess cache yes
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niocbrrrrrr
where are community meeting logs?
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niocbrrrrrr
the newest ones on getmonero are from Oct last year
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xmrmatterbridge
<cankerwort> Sgp usually hosts so I guess he is the person to ask