What even are monero's on and offramps apart from f2f , mining and exchange?

<jbuckets89> I wouldn’t consider most crypto a currency right now.. more like a commodity. To be a currency you need to be a unit of account, implying a stable(ish) value.

Works as money too

Hi guys

Anyone experience using hodlhold.com to buy/sell crypto?

* Anyone experience using hodlhodl.com to buy/sell crypto?

It's mentioned as a place to purchase crypto without KYC hurdles

localmonero.co is what id recommend

you can setup a sell offer to purchase at spot price

<moneromoon[m] "you can setup a sell offer to pu"> Reason why I ask about hodlhodl is because of the payment medium options is said to be quiet large e.g gift cards, paypal etc

yeah localmonero.co is pretty much the same

paypal, venmo, cashapp, zelle etc

Nice, thats great thanks

and then you aren't stuck with the BTC transaction fees 😬

I'm looking to buy crypto but exchange for say amazon or pre-paid mastercard/visa

<moneromoon[m] "and then you aren't stuck with t"> No fees with link you gave?

ah yeah im not sure about amazon/prepaid debit cards

<moneromoon[m] "ah yeah im not sure about amazon"> Whats the amount given below description for adverts?

wha? im not sure what your referring to

250.00 - 500.00 USD

oh thats how much they will trade

min/max

Cool so its their min - max

Per transaction

Right?

yup!

Cool

Ive seen some accepting Revolut cards

Nice

theres fees on both

just BTC fees are like 3 or 5$ per transaction just to send your coins to a wallet

while monero is like .003$ to send your coins wherever

Can buy them here at stores

😃

I see some sellers are accepting amazon top up cards

👌🏻

hell yeah

Hello there. What's going on overhere

Should I go with Trezor or Ledger nano S?

Why is Trezor Model T so expensive??

I'm only interested in storing my XMR there

I'd recommend Trezor

i bought the ledger and ended up buying the Trezor later

Wh?

because Ledger is not downgradeable

so you if you upgrade your device

you can lose compatibility with certain DEXs/websites etc

I upgraded my Ledger and then was unable to use it for DEX trading

Trezor - fully open source

fully downgradeable

I'd only recommend a hardware wallet if you have more than 1 paycheck invested in crypto though.

Why is that?

I'm concerned that I might get hacked

150$ is a lot of money to secure 500$

do you have an old phone?

old android?

Nope

With these hardware wallets, do I need to use their own wallets, or can I keep using my official GUI wallet?

yeah i mean if you plan on continuing to invest definitely go for the hardware wallet

The Trezor is a really nice wallet

Monero is required to use the Monero wallet

but the Monero wallet supports Trezor

hardware wallet is good if you want to use a comp that is not yours, no need to worry that someone is going to steal anything

Is it possible to have multiple wallets for monero on these hardware wallets?

For my own accounting, I want to keep things separate

yes

You can have multiple "Accounts" in the same wallet

like savings/checking account in the same username/password

Do they share the same 25 word seed, or are they different?

your Trezor is the seed for whichever wallet you want to use

secret stays on Trezor

so yes

It's important that they are different for tax/work reasons

i suggest the multi-sig if you have trusted family

for example

keep 4 secrets for yourself of course

Why not just pgp encrypt the seed and throw it up on the clouds?

I've been planning on just doing that

yeah i mean whatever you trust lol

id never put a seed on the cloud

encrypted or whatever

but thats just my opinion >_<

the benefit of the Trezor vs a software wallet

is your secret is in cold storage

if you plan on doin that

I'd just use a software wallet and encrypt the seed from there

My idea is to do that as backup. In case my wallet gets lost or stolen

for day to day stuff, I'd like to use a hardware wallet

Anyone have anything to say about keepkey?

I ordered one as an emergency after my ledger stopped working

never heard of it

Alright I guess I'll report. Bout a ledger blue back in 2016. Sux. Had nothing but trouble with it and missed out on a lot of profitable trades over the years.

I haven't tried their more common products

<Bananaboat> yeah ledger wallet sucks :/

<Bananaboat> Trezor model T is a REALLY nice wallet IMO

Why does the Trezor looks so ugly tho

<Bananaboat> highly recommend the model T

<Bananaboat> its nice in the hand 😛 lol

<Bananaboat> touch screen vs some crappy buttons on the side of a usb stick

How's the support for Linux?

<Bananaboat> im not sure but I imagine its better than most as its Open Source and has a large community

<Bananaboat> Ledger is not open source and you can't downgrade if you upgrade and realize it broke something

I think it being opensource is the reason why I'll probably pick it

<Bananaboat> exactly ❤️

It requiring a browser extension scares me a bit

<Bananaboat> requiring a browser extension for?

<Bananaboat> maybe if you want DEX compatibility

<Bananaboat> i use the Monero native wallet w/ Trezor

I don't really care about DEX support. But i think you need that to do things like firmware updates

<Bananaboat> theres the "Trezor Suite" desktop app

Lovely, that's opensource too

<mycorrhizae[m] "Alright I guess I'll report. Bou"> I just ordered the model x. I got it because between T and L the L could hold hbar (Hedera) and i could be mistaken, but i didnt see that Trezor could. The X will be my first hardware wallet.. But after i use it if there are any questions i can answer Ill be happy to share with the group.

whats hedera

A plant it looks like

$192.9 USD 😲

<DisBotXMR "<Bananaboat> Ledger is not open "> Ledger not being opensource really bothers me.. But i ended up getting it. I figured my bank isnt opensource either and I keep my $$ in there.. Thats bad logic though. If i would have stuck with my gut FOSS all the way.. But when I just listed which one I needed to hold what crypto I ended up making my final pick the Ledger X.

Love the look on the cobovault

Hate the pricetag

I think a decentralized trading platform with open source hardware integration would be nice. One that didnt BREAK ALL THE TIME LIKE LEDGER.

I'm checking out Bisq and wishing it had more option available. Greatest benefit is xmr is available and cash app is a purchase method

I just wish Bisq had direct fiat to XMR

too much gets lost in trading fiat > BTC > XMR

I don't think bisq can handle high liquidity.

monero.moon: Use localmonero

mongst[m]: You can create a computer and use it as an offline XMR transaction signer.

* mongst[m]: You can build or buy a computer and use it as an offline XMR transaction signer.

An offline signer is securer than a hardware wallet.

It is more expensive but more flexible than a hardware wallet.

i know. localmonero lol

but still would be nice to see Bisq add that functionality

more p2p non-kyc options needed :P

Bisq isn't built to handle high liquidity anyway... Try polarity exchange.

p2p can't handle high liquidity. P2P doesn't scale much beyond buying crypto with fiat.

thats all i would use it for lol

polarity looks cool

but yeah i was just referring to fiat on-ramps

Is fiat off-ramp easy on localmonero?

yup pretty easy

Fiat on-ramp was too expensive on localmonero, so I just bought any cryptocurrency on KYC exchanges and sold them for XMR.

yeah thats what i do

but

<fatcat[m] "An offline signer is securer tha"> I'll DDG this tonight - I have some PCs laying around

its actually cheap to use localmonero only if you do

"Sell" orders

I wasn't ready to pay 15~20% fees to BuyCoinQuick, a KYC dealer.

you can get almost spot price if you setup a "Sell" order on localmonero

instead of going to the "buy" section

I think Tether is artificially driving up prices of virtually every cryptocurrency. Don't buy at this moment.

Tether is printing USD Tether out of thin air.

i thought localmonero was expensive too until i realized that

When the owner of Tether stops buying, cryptocurrency prices plummet.

USD Tether is more centrlaized than USD. USDT is owned by one man, the CEO of bitfinex exchange.

The man issues USD Tether and buys cryptocurrencies in bitfinex exchange.

* The man issues USD Tether and buys cryptocurrencies on bitfinex exchange.

* USD Tether is more centralized than USD. USDT is owned by one man, the CEO of bitfinex exchange.

yeah its sketch af

Perhaps, I should sell all my XMR for now...

* Perhaps, I should sell all my XMR for now... and buy after XMR price plummets.

idk.. at the same time in comparison XMR is super undervalued xD

1:1 with LTC makes no sense

if it drops, im just going to buy more..

XMR is super-unknown, and the price has a lot of Tether bubble.

It will be well known in the next few years.

"the price has a lot of Tether bubble" nonsense

Luke smith made a video about Monero, very informative

Yeah, trust Tether.

tether is obv untrustworthy

Lol tether

That was a huge red flag when it first came out.

Peertube or lbry - which is better?

mmxxx[m]: peertube is generally faster.

lbry often buffers.

'Monero is what a lot of normies think btc is'

Dr. Daniel Kim resounding everywhere.

New talk by him getting posted later today.

mmxxx: lbry has a pretty large and growing community including many ex-youtubers

Just use invidious. None of those bLoCkChAiN alternatives will ever actually dethrone any of the widespread big techies.

Best to adopt privacy preserving frontends and call it a day.

<donkeydonkey[m] "mmxxx: lbry has a pretty large a"> I've noticed but Luke Smith's latest video isn't on there, yet.

<mmxxx[m] "I've noticed but Luke Smith's la"> videos.lukesmith.xyz/videos/watch/8…ba38c94-e8c2-421f-bb5f-47f4169fa804

<rottenwheel "Best to adopt privacy preserving"> Use invidious on tor

> <@rottenwheel:halogen.city> Best to adopt privacy preserving frontends and call it a day.

* Use invidious on tor browser.

Brave Browser <3

Brave rewards ❤

<Yonatan[m] "videos.lukesmith.xyz/vid"> It's not on lbry. I saw that link.

<rottenwheel[m] "Just use invidious. None of thos"> Lbry is pretty good and a number of youtubers upload there as well.

<mmxxx[m] "It's not on lbry. I saw that lin"> it's not on youtube either.

on his peertube comments, he said he will upload the vid to youtube in the coming days.

On hdd sounds like struggle

I don't know how fast it would be to synchronize monero blockchain on raw HDD without filesystem.

XFS is quite fast.

I <3 XFS

Pi is the only coin you can mine with your phone ! think bitcoin in 2008, get in on the ground floor of an exciting new cryptocurrency with pi Pi is a new digital currency developed by Stanford PhDs, To claim your piece of pi goto minepi.com/ilkde and use (ilkde) as your invitation code.

<fatcat[m] "I don't know how fast it would b"> you mean one that is freshly zeroed with dd for example?

monero blockchain LMDB will support raw disk soon.

I don't know whether I will know how much space is left on HDD if I raw disk.

* I don't know whether I will know how much space is left on HDD if I use LMDB on raw disk.

How can I verify that my monerod node has fully synced?

For some reason, it's only taking up 99GB

Type status into monerod

`monerod status`

dEBRUYNE: I can't launch an interactive monerod session.

I already have monerod running in background.

fatcat[m]: try ./monerod status

I built monerod package on gentoo linux.

There is no monerod in the current directory.

./monerod status

I type `monerod status`

But, I don't get an interactive session.

If you run monerod with some command after it, it won't launch an interactive session

run just "monerod" (or ./monerod) to start an interactive session. If one is already running in the background maybe, then "monerod status" will just run that command

I read localmonero.co/knowledge/monero-atomic-swaps

I found a flaw in atomic swap protocol.

If XMR sender refuses to give its half of the private spend key, BTC seller can't withdraw XMR.

Both XMR seller and BTC seller lose access to XMR in this case, but XMR seller still gets BTC.

This way, XMR seller can screw BTC seller.

* By locking XMR for ever, XMR seller can screw BTC seller.

If you have no reputation to manage, this can work.

* If you have no reputation to manage, this fraud can work.

the BTC seller will just refund BTC

Okay, now I understand the concept.

Withdrawing BTC from the lobk automatically entails giving the XMR spend key to BTC seller.

* Withdrawing BTC from the lock automatically entails giving the XMR spend key to BTC seller.

Can atomic swap be implemented with other BTC derivatives?

LTC, BCH, BSV, ...

yes, they're all compatible. ask in #monero-swap

They're not ALL compatible. There's a requirement for no transaction malleability.

Bitcoin fixed it in SegWit. BCH and BSV didn't adopt SegWit. I know they have their own 'solution' which limits it, yet I don't believe it solves it.

The XMR seller can screw over the BTC lock up IIRC.

how anonymous is the cashshuffle protocol to obdcure bitcoin cash transactions?

* how anonymous is the cashshuffle protocol to obscure bitcoin cash transactions?

* is someone familiar with the cashshuffle protocol on bitcoin cash? how anonymous does it make the transactions? is it any good?

<styxx[m] "how anonymous is the cashshuffle"> Ar best, it will make your transactions indistinguishable from the 3 other people using bch

<childofthecorn[m "Ar best, it will make your trans"> Kek

I used bch last week. It's kinda slow.

the fees are very low

So are ltc, xmr and doge. All much quicker.

<mmxxx[m] "So are ltc, xmr and doge. All mu"> still better then ltc and doge imo

in what way?

the possibility that you can obscure the transaction

im using bch as well more often right now because its the only currency wit low fees which a trade accepts

else only btc and ether and erc-20 tokens

* im using bch as well more often right now because its the only currency wit low fees which a trader accepts

ltc has mimble wimble integration on the horizon

* else only btc, ether and erc-20 tokens

I can't get with eth

ethereum is just fucking nuts with the fees

I think it's an awful project

i mean what did they expect with all of those tokens

i dont think that it will survive in the long run

there are better projects right now like polkadot

* im using bch as well more often right now because its the only currency with low fees which a trader accepts

vitalik boogerin

yes, the whales that can't cash out because they can't prove source of funds, are going to go one step further from fiat and convert it all into XMR

The real question is: who would ever take their bitcoin? I wouldn't want it

bUt yOu cOuLd mIx iT

You could, but then you will have to pay fees and split it up to smaller UTXOs, do UTXO selection, remixing, headaches

just passing the buck

atomic swaps really only makes sense btw coins of equal fungibility

in that case no one has a risk (dis)advantage

Not exactly

It's similar to how you would swap a branded gold bar into cash

You could mix and then convert to Monero as well

Then it's a fungible UTXO --> Monero

if it was mixed sufficiently to be "fungible" then they wouldn't need monero any more

trackers and see that your BTC was "mixed"

"Oh, I see your BTC have been mixed on purpose. You must be trying to hide something"

<hyc "if it was mixed sufficiently to "> CoinJoins are sufficient, the problem starts when you try spending it.

CoinJoins just taint the coins and make them less usable

Also you wouldn't need to worry about chain analysis because in a few minutes your Bitcoin will be swapped into Monero

You're more likely to have your account frozen sending coinjoined coins to huobi or binance than sending xmr to them

Yeah, but you won't, because you will be atomic swapping into Monero

Scroll back

I think you're missing the detail that a swap is two way. Someone will end up with the bitcoin.

Yonatan: yeah but think about the opposite side of the deal: who would want to take those BTC from you? Nobody, because they would get blocked too

Yeah, but that's just him being a fool

It's a game of hot potato

And the best solution is not to play

Someone will buy your Bitcoin eventually

You could also CoinJoin

Not sure about that

lol

Bitcoin is still a great investment

no. im the oracle. I know.

<Yonatan[m] "27e6fcf.jpg"> i think im going to be a monero maximalist

When the time comes, same

yeah but if Bitcoin went to 1million$

Then it'd be pretty safe bet to say Monero goes to 40k$

% wise you'd make more money with Monero

> <@yonatanb_:matrix.org> sent an image.

* makes me wanna be a monero maximalist

what marximalist?

no maximalist

* "what marximalist?"

Does someone know is there a dedicated channel for discussions about mymonero or light wallets in general?

#mymonero exists (or existed at least).

There's #feather on OFTC, that's the only one I know of

<Yonatan[m] "Bitcoin is still a great investm"> if they implement lightning and cashshuffle like protocol it will still remain the king of crypto

Whirlpool is a sort of cashshuffle, unlimited remixes and 1 time pool fee.

but you still cant hide your wealth with bitcoin

You can split your balance into multiple UTXOs, but again, that's a headache

Bitcoin is privacy if you have decent opsec and are tech savvy

easier with monero or pirate chain

bitcoin isn't private even if you are tech savvy >_> IMO

Trackers can also see that you used a mixer..

btc, so easy to use pbs.twimg.com/media/EoNazPsXEAIe7VQ?format=jpg&name=small

<Yonatan[m] "Bitcoin is privacy if you have d"> you should be - or at least have someone who is. that is if you want to implement tech in your life. or just go full amish analogue

> <@monero.moon:monero.social> bitcoin isn't private even if you are tech savvy >_> IMO

> Trackers can also see that you used a mixer..

Yes and no, you could make undetectable CoinJoins integrated into every day transactions

Samourai Stonewall(x2) and Stowaway are a good example

but theyre not..

hence Monero >_>

those get flagged as mixing in chainalysis, fwiw

Monero already has solutions integrated into every day transactions by default..

Sure Bitcoin "could" do something too

but they dont.. Monero does.

But but but

<Yonatan[m] "Samourai Stonewall(x2) and Stowa"> and Wasabi

lol

Read the article by OXT research?

Mix 10 BTC or more and get rekt with Wasabi

<mmxxx[m] "and Wasabi"> wasabi also gets flagged as high risk/mixing in chainalysis

what's wasabi

<rupee[m]1 "wasabi also gets flagged as high"> not surprised at all.

use xmr \o/

a wallet, that exchanges view the same as a mixing service

<x[m] "what's wasabi"> btc wallet with coinjoin service built in

hey yo

Yo

I was wondering

does anyone know where I could go if I wanted to program in exchange for xmr?

<millionblockclub "does anyone know where I could g"> ?

<mmxxx[m] "?"> I just wanna earn some monero

I don't understand the question

ok

got it

you want to code and earn xmr in exchange

yes

I can do a lot. maybe something small at first, I just want to see what its like

or if its even possible

have you checked out the monero website?

are they hiring? I meant like, programming odd jobs like unit tests for a dozen millinero or so

if your a web developer - add an advertisement that you'll update the website or something

theres a lot of out-dated info on the monero website that needs updating idk

I'm more of a back end guy

You know what I can offer

millionblockclub: if you can code some PHP, I'll be sure to send you some millinero or more if you can update RPC methods for monerophp library

I do know how to install single user mastodon instances, peertube, openstreamingplatform

apache, nginx, postgres, RoR

<SerHack "millionblockclubaxol: if you can"> I can brush my php up sure

I am a whitehat by day trade

I just wanna do this for experience

infosec?

Yeah

Lots actually

Jelly

2 years apprenticeship as a whitehat

How'd you get in?

I'm looking for something like that

Family friend of ours was a BIG shot big shot hacker way back when, got hired by ISS because of a friend and well, now he runs his own firm

was his name zer0c00l

jk jk

no

Blue Adept

if ever you're interested in helping me out for no goddamn reason I'd appreciate it

albeit unlikely, it is worth a shot!

only 4 matrixers on this one

heys guys i'm abit of a noob,

I can use both public address and sub address to request xmr. Is that correct ?

jonah_xd[m], more privacy enhanced if you use a subaddress

so its a yes

yeah

epic

ur epic

were epic!

<Mochi101 "jonah_xd, more privacy enhanced "> You mean so you can give a new subaddress to every sender? Or is there some other privacy advantage, even if I reuse the same subaddress every time

enhanced privacy if you use a new address every time

yeap

i just read that subkeys can eat abit of your hard drive if you generate too many.

Maybe 40 bytes per extra subaddress.

printer go brrr make cryto go moon

* printer go brrr make crypto go moon

<moneromooo "Maybe 40 bytes per extra subaddr"> so it doesn't work to generate sub addresses per transaction

since the cache file will just get bigger

Right. 40 bytes per transaction would just swamp your 360 kB floppy pretty quick.

also what happens if you lose the sub address cache file ?

but you still have the wallet seed and private key and all that

You get to recreate them. They're deterministic.

right how about this scenario, some one sends you monero via a subaddress which you lost, in this case does your wallet still be able to read it ?

Yes. That's what deterministic means.

I see, so storing them is useless how i see it

We could also print wallets preloaded with individual monero units and use them as cash

Correct, your Hyper Ryzen 20th generation at 10000 GHz will recreate them very quick.

the issue with that is the changing price

Thats why we should use as a currency rather than an investment

millionblockclub: that would be most excellent, however it's not clear how to do this safely.

There's something called... opendime IIRC ?

But basically you need to be able to redeem it. And you need to prevent it being used after redeemed.

But also, xmr is pretty stable. its hovered around 180 how long now?

also by printing out or making physical the denominations and exchanging them you're breaking the law iirc. Same reason those old physical bitcoins were removed.

I like this coin

<millionblockclub "But also, xmr is pretty stable. "> it's 220+ now.

WHA

WHEN

since this weekend

Crypto keeps going and going. I just doubled my investment, yee freaking haw!

≈$231.0328 • ≈ value of: 1 XMR • Source: cmc/ccc/altm

oh wow, I really did. I bought at 110

aint doubled till you cash out

that part

the smart play is not to sell

Is it because of elon?

Or is it because monero is finally getting the recognition it deserves?

why would it be because of elon?

apparently he keeps hyping it

I dont check twitter tho

xmr?

no

crypto in general

he's been hyping doge for the longest, it barely moved until WSB boys got shafted by Robinhood and started to look for other pump and dump schemes to run

he has nothing to do with this bull market

the truth is there's lot of cheap money

and few places to put it

so btc wins out

Oh

i mean, all currency are under supply and demand laws

i don't see why monero is diffrent on this

* i mean, all currencies are under supply and demand laws

tether is just inflating the market until either they're fully 1:1 and no longer fractionary-reserve, or their whole charade crumbles.

regardless, xmr will weather it as an actual currency and not a store of value.

how much tether is out there right now?

am I reading that right?

32 billion?

Yup.

o_0

so who puts money in tether allegedly and 'returns' do they get?

what is Tron's connection with tether?

and +what returns

it's a good vehicle for money laundering...

Seventy percent of bitcoin is traded against tethers, and as real money keeps getting siphoned out of the system, Tether needs to create more and more fake dollars to fill the ever-widening chasm.

How big is the monero ledger

I have no idea, but likely not negligible.

If you mean the db, about 100 GB.

About 30-35 GB for hte pruned version.

Wharrgarbl[m], what do you mean, real money?

Tangible USD, not USDT.

Tangible, as in... coins ?

Notes are a bit... wobbly. Not as hard as coins.

Internet pixies

I'm waiting for the moment central banks smell the coffee the bullshit thing industry brewed for ages and start minting coins out of cheap plastic, with planned obsolescence built in. One day, you open your wallet and find a few of the plastic coins you had have just broken down and are unusable now.

Honestly, that seems like something that'd fit like a glove.

Inflation's built right in.

Got malk?

tanglble usd? that would be bills?

(joking aside)

gold eagles

anyway, so the story is that a lot of people are selling btc for usdt? so either tether actually have the billions they say they have, or a lot of people are getting royally scrammed?

scammed even

scrammed

maybe scrammed too

I'm considering abandoning any doge association...

Unless it dumps hard.. haha

Anyone with experience with Samourai's whirlpool?

I'm wondering if I choose the pool size with the amount I deposit or after I deposit?

Why do some days see 2X transactions/per-day of other days in the same week?

Hey is there an syntax for sending multiple transactions with the cli wallet as in "transfer <address> <amount> <n times>" ?

* Hey is there a syntax for sending multiple transactions with the cli wallet as in "transfer <address> <amount> <n times>" ?

Wolver[m]: should say using "help"

never used it myself

Wolver: transfer <address_1> <amount_1> <address_2> <amount_2> <address_3> <amount_3>

netrik182: yes but say i wanted to send a amount stupid amount of time is where I'm getting at

* netrik182: yes but say i wanted to send a amount stupid amount of times is where I'm getting at

not sure then, sorry

is fine was just curious

anyone wanna start a privacy tech group? Like about cryptography, key exchanges, etc

<CrimsonKing> hey cool idea

<CrimsonKing> we could come up with some math to make a fungible token or something

do anyone knows how to speed up synchronizing

was working fast until 95% and now is going very slow

Are you running on an SSD or a regular HDD/

Thats the biggest differentiator in speed of sync.

And it slows down at 95% because before that there are checkpoints that speed up sync.

ssd

Then just give it time.

Bumping out_peers can aid initial sync a bit, but doesn’t have a major impact.

we did not have a release for 1 month so that will take a while to verify without checkpoints

What is “very slow”?

especially due to increased chain usage

For sure

 --block-sync-size=1  will help?

no

any other command?

how long are you waiting?

5hours

that's not too bad

I would just be patient

hi

Moneco