00:00:18 What even are monero's on and offramps apart from f2f , mining and exchange? 00:11:41 https://www.getmonero.org/community/merchants/ 01:06:30 I wouldn’t consider most crypto a currency right now.. more like a commodity. To be a currency you need to be a unit of account, implying a stable(ish) value. 01:19:28 Works as money too 01:22:37 Hi guys 01:23:00 Anyone experience using hodlhold.com to buy/sell crypto? 01:24:37 * Anyone experience using hodlhodl.com to buy/sell crypto? 01:24:39 It's mentioned as a place to purchase crypto without KYC hurdles 01:35:40 localmonero.co is what id recommend 01:36:41 you can setup a sell offer to purchase at spot price 01:43:39 Reason why I ask about hodlhodl is because of the payment medium options is said to be quiet large e.g gift cards, paypal etc 01:44:30 yeah localmonero.co is pretty much the same 01:44:31 paypal, venmo, cashapp, zelle etc 01:45:07 Nice, thats great thanks 01:45:18 and then you aren't stuck with the BTC transaction fees 😬 01:45:52 I'm looking to buy crypto but exchange for say amazon or pre-paid mastercard/visa 01:46:11 No fees with link you gave? 01:54:08 ah yeah im not sure about amazon/prepaid debit cards 01:55:16 Whats the amount given below description for adverts? 01:56:03 wha? im not sure what your referring to 01:56:07 250.00 - 500.00 USD 01:56:17 oh thats how much they will trade 01:56:29 min/max 01:57:12 Cool so its their min - max 01:57:21 Per transaction 01:57:27 Right? 01:57:33 yup! 01:57:56 Cool 01:58:07 Ive seen some accepting Revolut cards 01:58:10 Nice 01:58:22 theres fees on both 01:58:22 just BTC fees are like 3 or 5$ per transaction just to send your coins to a wallet 01:58:22 while monero is like .003$ to send your coins wherever 01:58:27 Can buy them here at stores 01:59:04 * WhiteNoise[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/QCyURdutBfOVAEArZVdNPdYD/message.txt > 01:59:08 😃 02:07:30 I see some sellers are accepting amazon top up cards 02:07:35 👌🏻 02:08:23 hell yeah 02:33:00 Hello there. What's going on overhere 02:34:06 Should I go with Trezor or Ledger nano S? 02:34:06 Why is Trezor Model T so expensive?? 02:34:17 I'm only interested in storing my XMR there 02:34:53 I'd recommend Trezor 02:35:03 i bought the ledger and ended up buying the Trezor later 02:35:37 Wh? 02:35:38 because Ledger is not downgradeable 02:35:38 so you if you upgrade your device 02:35:38 you can lose compatibility with certain DEXs/websites etc 02:35:54 I upgraded my Ledger and then was unable to use it for DEX trading 02:36:03 Trezor - fully open source 02:36:06 fully downgradeable 02:36:43 I'd only recommend a hardware wallet if you have more than 1 paycheck invested in crypto though. 02:37:00 Why is that? 02:37:25 I'm concerned that I might get hacked 02:37:54 150$ is a lot of money to secure 500$ 02:38:06 do you have an old phone? 02:38:11 old android? 02:38:17 Nope 02:39:21 With these hardware wallets, do I need to use their own wallets, or can I keep using my official GUI wallet? 02:39:40 yeah i mean if you plan on continuing to invest definitely go for the hardware wallet 02:39:40 The Trezor is a really nice wallet 02:39:53 Monero is required to use the Monero wallet 02:40:01 but the Monero wallet supports Trezor 02:40:53 hardware wallet is good if you want to use a comp that is not yours, no need to worry that someone is going to steal anything 02:41:40 * moneromoon[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FvhYtteGNtZhfFjoHWnvBFjl/message.txt > 02:43:12 Is it possible to have multiple wallets for monero on these hardware wallets? 02:43:33 For my own accounting, I want to keep things separate 02:43:49 yes 02:44:19 You can have multiple "Accounts" in the same wallet 02:44:30 like savings/checking account in the same username/password 02:45:21 Do they share the same 25 word seed, or are they different? 02:46:02 your Trezor is the seed for whichever wallet you want to use 02:46:12 secret stays on Trezor 02:46:17 so yes 02:46:38 It's important that they are different for tax/work reasons 02:46:38 i suggest the multi-sig if you have trusted family 02:46:45 for example 02:47:08 * moneromoon[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/JuNxqHEreTfuCzZqhWEisrWh/message.txt > 02:47:22 keep 4 secrets for yourself of course 02:48:04 Why not just pgp encrypt the seed and throw it up on the clouds? 02:48:29 I've been planning on just doing that 02:48:30 yeah i mean whatever you trust lol 02:48:39 id never put a seed on the cloud 02:48:48 encrypted or whatever 02:49:06 but thats just my opinion >_< 02:49:55 the benefit of the Trezor vs a software wallet 02:49:55 is your secret is in cold storage 02:50:45 if you plan on doin that 02:50:45 I'd just use a software wallet and encrypt the seed from there 02:56:30 My idea is to do that as backup. In case my wallet gets lost or stolen 02:56:56 for day to day stuff, I'd like to use a hardware wallet 02:59:13 Anyone have anything to say about keepkey? 02:59:30 I ordered one as an emergency after my ledger stopped working 03:00:36 never heard of it 03:02:18 Alright I guess I'll report. Bout a ledger blue back in 2016. Sux. Had nothing but trouble with it and missed out on a lot of profitable trades over the years. 03:02:37 I haven't tried their more common products 03:21:01 yeah ledger wallet sucks :/ 03:21:21 Trezor model T is a REALLY nice wallet IMO 03:21:25 Why does the Trezor looks so ugly tho 03:21:30 highly recommend the model T 03:21:48 its nice in the hand 😛 lol 03:22:42 touch screen vs some crappy buttons on the side of a usb stick 03:23:06 How's the support for Linux? 03:23:32 im not sure but I imagine its better than most as its Open Source and has a large community 03:23:55 Ledger is not open source and you can't downgrade if you upgrade and realize it broke something 03:24:44 I think it being opensource is the reason why I'll probably pick it 03:25:24 exactly ❤️ 03:25:24 It requiring a browser extension scares me a bit 03:25:38 requiring a browser extension for? 03:25:45 maybe if you want DEX compatibility 03:26:12 i use the Monero native wallet w/ Trezor 03:26:28 I don't really care about DEX support. But i think you need that to do things like firmware updates 03:26:50 theres the "Trezor Suite" desktop app 03:27:41 Lovely, that's opensource too 03:28:21 I just ordered the model x. I got it because between T and L the L could hold hbar (Hedera) and i could be mistaken, but i didnt see that Trezor could. The X will be my first hardware wallet.. But after i use it if there are any questions i can answer Ill be happy to share with the group. 03:28:54 whats hedera 03:29:13 A plant it looks like 03:31:13 $192.9 USD 😲 03:31:46 Ledger is not open "> Ledger not being opensource really bothers me.. But i ended up getting it. I figured my bank isnt opensource either and I keep my $$ in there.. Thats bad logic though. If i would have stuck with my gut FOSS all the way.. But when I just listed which one I needed to hold what crypto I ended up making my final pick the Ledger X. 03:40:28 Love the look on the cobovault 03:40:32 Hate the pricetag 03:41:49 I think a decentralized trading platform with open source hardware integration would be nice. One that didnt BREAK ALL THE TIME LIKE LEDGER. 03:42:37 I'm checking out Bisq and wishing it had more option available. Greatest benefit is xmr is available and cash app is a purchase method 04:14:39 I just wish Bisq had direct fiat to XMR 04:15:00 too much gets lost in trading fiat > BTC > XMR 04:52:11 I don't think bisq can handle high liquidity. 04:52:29 monero.moon: Use localmonero 04:53:05 mongst[m]: You can create a computer and use it as an offline XMR transaction signer. 04:53:13 * mongst[m]: You can build or buy a computer and use it as an offline XMR transaction signer. 04:53:33 An offline signer is securer than a hardware wallet. 04:54:00 It is more expensive but more flexible than a hardware wallet. 04:54:52 i know. localmonero lol 04:54:53 but still would be nice to see Bisq add that functionality 04:55:15 more p2p non-kyc options needed :P 04:55:20 Bisq isn't built to handle high liquidity anyway... Try polarity exchange. 04:56:18 p2p can't handle high liquidity. P2P doesn't scale much beyond buying crypto with fiat. 04:56:36 thats all i would use it for lol 04:57:02 polarity looks cool 04:57:02 but yeah i was just referring to fiat on-ramps 04:57:24 Is fiat off-ramp easy on localmonero? 04:57:57 yup pretty easy 04:58:29 Fiat on-ramp was too expensive on localmonero, so I just bought any cryptocurrency on KYC exchanges and sold them for XMR. 04:58:50 yeah thats what i do 04:58:52 but 04:59:06 I'll DDG this tonight - I have some PCs laying around 04:59:07 its actually cheap to use localmonero only if you do 04:59:07 "Sell" orders 04:59:08 I wasn't ready to pay 15~20% fees to BuyCoinQuick, a KYC dealer. 04:59:24 you can get almost spot price if you setup a "Sell" order on localmonero 04:59:29 instead of going to the "buy" section 05:00:07 I think Tether is artificially driving up prices of virtually every cryptocurrency. Don't buy at this moment. 05:00:24 Tether is printing USD Tether out of thin air. 05:00:40 i thought localmonero was expensive too until i realized that 05:00:56 When the owner of Tether stops buying, cryptocurrency prices plummet. 05:01:28 USD Tether is more centrlaized than USD. USDT is owned by one man, the CEO of bitfinex exchange. 05:01:47 The man issues USD Tether and buys cryptocurrencies in bitfinex exchange. 05:01:51 * The man issues USD Tether and buys cryptocurrencies on bitfinex exchange. 05:02:06 * USD Tether is more centralized than USD. USDT is owned by one man, the CEO of bitfinex exchange. 05:02:09 yeah its sketch af 05:04:25 Perhaps, I should sell all my XMR for now... 05:04:38 * Perhaps, I should sell all my XMR for now... and buy after XMR price plummets. 05:05:11 idk.. at the same time in comparison XMR is super undervalued xD 05:05:20 1:1 with LTC makes no sense 05:05:54 if it drops, im just going to buy more.. 05:05:57 XMR is super-unknown, and the price has a lot of Tether bubble. 05:06:25 It will be well known in the next few years. 05:12:31 "the price has a lot of Tether bubble" nonsense 05:13:49 https://videos.lukesmith.xyz/videos/watch/8ba38c94-e8c2-421f-bb5f-47f4169fa804 05:13:58 Luke smith made a video about Monero, very informative 05:16:03 Yeah, trust Tether. 05:16:47 tether is obv untrustworthy 05:36:07 Lol tether 05:36:25 That was a huge red flag when it first came out. 05:41:07 Peertube or lbry - which is better? 05:42:26 mmxxx[m]: peertube is generally faster. 05:42:41 lbry often buffers. 05:59:10 'Monero is what a lot of normies think btc is' 05:59:43 Dr. Daniel Kim resounding everywhere. 05:59:55 New talk by him getting posted later today. 06:00:35 mmxxx: lbry has a pretty large and growing community including many ex-youtubers 06:01:47 Just use invidious. None of those bLoCkChAiN alternatives will ever actually dethrone any of the widespread big techies. 06:02:08 Best to adopt privacy preserving frontends and call it a day. 06:04:34 I've noticed but Luke Smith's latest video isn't on there, yet. 06:14:43 https://videos.lukesmith.xyz/videos/watch/8ba38c94-e8c2-421f-bb5f-47f4169fa804 06:15:36 Use invidious on tor 06:15:41 > <@rottenwheel:halogen.city> Best to adopt privacy preserving frontends and call it a day. 06:15:41 * Use invidious on tor browser. 06:16:02 Brave Browser <3 07:50:53 Brave rewards ❤ 08:24:56 It's not on lbry. I saw that link. 08:25:46 Lbry is pretty good and a number of youtubers upload there as well. 08:27:16 it's not on youtube either. 08:27:31 on his peertube comments, he said he will upload the vid to youtube in the coming days. 09:43:24 * fatcat[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/izrdZbmshKBogugvaNpIOxNO/message.txt > 09:46:48 On hdd sounds like struggle 09:48:08 I don't know how fast it would be to synchronize monero blockchain on raw HDD without filesystem. 09:48:35 XFS is quite fast. 09:48:59 I <3 XFS 09:50:38 Pi is the only coin you can mine with your phone ! think bitcoin in 2008, get in on the ground floor of an exciting new cryptocurrency with pi Pi is a new digital currency developed by Stanford PhDs, To claim your piece of pi goto https://minepi.com/ilkde and use (ilkde) as your invitation code. 09:50:54 you mean one that is freshly zeroed with dd for example? 09:59:22 monero blockchain LMDB will support raw disk soon. 09:59:46 I don't know whether I will know how much space is left on HDD if I raw disk. 09:59:56 * I don't know whether I will know how much space is left on HDD if I use LMDB on raw disk. 10:44:10 How can I verify that my monerod node has fully synced? 10:44:10 For some reason, it's only taking up 99GB 10:50:50 Type status into monerod 10:54:39 `monerod status` 10:55:27 dEBRUYNE: I can't launch an interactive monerod session. 10:55:37 I already have monerod running in background. 11:01:03 fatcat[m]: try ./monerod status 11:01:26 I built monerod package on gentoo linux. 11:01:34 There is no monerod in the current directory. 11:01:39 ./monerod status 11:01:50 I type `monerod status` 11:01:58 But, I don't get an interactive session. 11:02:40 If you run monerod with some command after it, it won't launch an interactive session 11:03:16 run just "monerod" (or ./monerod) to start an interactive session. If one is already running in the background maybe, then "monerod status" will just run that command 11:33:57 I read https://localmonero.co/knowledge/monero-atomic-swaps 11:33:57 I found a flaw in atomic swap protocol. 11:34:29 If XMR sender refuses to give its half of the private spend key, BTC seller can't withdraw XMR. 11:34:53 Both XMR seller and BTC seller lose access to XMR in this case, but XMR seller still gets BTC. 11:35:22 This way, XMR seller can screw BTC seller. 11:35:35 * By locking XMR for ever, XMR seller can screw BTC seller. 11:36:30 If you have no reputation to manage, this can work. 11:36:43 * If you have no reputation to manage, this fraud can work. 11:38:42 https://github.com/h4sh3d/xmr-btc-atomic-swap/blob/master/whitepaper/xmr-btc.pdf 11:39:41 the BTC seller will just refund BTC 11:48:44 Okay, now I understand the concept. 11:49:16 Withdrawing BTC from the lobk automatically entails giving the XMR spend key to BTC seller. 11:49:35 * Withdrawing BTC from the lock automatically entails giving the XMR spend key to BTC seller. 11:50:15 Can atomic swap be implemented with other BTC derivatives? 11:50:24 LTC, BCH, BSV, ... 11:50:36 yes, they're all compatible. ask in #monero-swap 11:51:10 They're not ALL compatible. There's a requirement for no transaction malleability. 11:51:48 Bitcoin fixed it in SegWit. BCH and BSV didn't adopt SegWit. I know they have their own 'solution' which limits it, yet I don't believe it solves it. 11:51:56 The XMR seller can screw over the BTC lock up IIRC. 12:32:42 how anonymous is the cashshuffle protocol to obdcure bitcoin cash transactions? 12:32:56 * how anonymous is the cashshuffle protocol to obscure bitcoin cash transactions? 12:35:01 * is someone familiar with the cashshuffle protocol on bitcoin cash? how anonymous does it make the transactions? is it any good? 13:00:54 Ar best, it will make your transactions indistinguishable from the 3 other people using bch 13:01:32 Kek 13:01:48 I used bch last week. It's kinda slow. 13:04:16 the fees are very low 13:04:48 So are ltc, xmr and doge. All much quicker. 14:02:38 still better then ltc and doge imo 14:02:50 in what way? 14:03:17 the possibility that you can obscure the transaction 14:05:29 im using bch as well more often right now because its the only currency wit low fees which a trade accepts 14:05:47 else only btc and ether and erc-20 tokens 14:06:03 * im using bch as well more often right now because its the only currency wit low fees which a trader accepts 14:06:15 ltc has mimble wimble integration on the horizon 14:06:18 * else only btc, ether and erc-20 tokens 14:06:30 I can't get with eth 14:06:31 ethereum is just fucking nuts with the fees 14:06:36 I think it's an awful project 14:06:47 i mean what did they expect with all of those tokens 14:07:48 i dont think that it will survive in the long run 14:07:52 there are better projects right now like polkadot 14:08:25 * im using bch as well more often right now because its the only currency with low fees which a trader accepts 14:17:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwfYG6FG71Y 14:18:05 vitalik boogerin 15:36:55 * Yonatan[m] uploaded an image: 27e6fcf.jpg (116KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/mNvfJaajOGuEhqztwBUtELah/27e6fcf.jpg > 15:38:41 yes, the whales that can't cash out because they can't prove source of funds, are going to go one step further from fiat and convert it all into XMR 15:46:05 The real question is: who would ever take their bitcoin? I wouldn't want it 15:49:06 bUt yOu cOuLd mIx iT 15:50:51 You could, but then you will have to pay fees and split it up to smaller UTXOs, do UTXO selection, remixing, headaches 15:51:14 just passing the buck 15:51:26 atomic swaps really only makes sense btw coins of equal fungibility 15:51:44 in that case no one has a risk (dis)advantage 15:51:46 Not exactly 15:52:13 It's similar to how you would swap a branded gold bar into cash 15:52:30 You could mix and then convert to Monero as well 15:52:43 Then it's a fungible UTXO --> Monero 15:53:58 if it was mixed sufficiently to be "fungible" then they wouldn't need monero any more 15:54:20 trackers and see that your BTC was "mixed" 15:57:22 "Oh, I see your BTC have been mixed on purpose. You must be trying to hide something" 16:00:01 CoinJoins are sufficient, the problem starts when you try spending it. 16:00:51 CoinJoins just taint the coins and make them less usable 16:00:52 Also you wouldn't need to worry about chain analysis because in a few minutes your Bitcoin will be swapped into Monero 16:01:03 You're more likely to have your account frozen sending coinjoined coins to huobi or binance than sending xmr to them 16:01:58 Yeah, but you won't, because you will be atomic swapping into Monero 16:02:01 Scroll back 16:02:41 I think you're missing the detail that a swap is two way. Someone will end up with the bitcoin. 16:02:58 Yonatan: yeah but think about the opposite side of the deal: who would want to take those BTC from you? Nobody, because they would get blocked too 16:03:00 Yeah, but that's just him being a fool 16:03:02 It's a game of hot potato 16:03:15 And the best solution is not to play 16:03:42 Someone will buy your Bitcoin eventually 16:03:56 You could also CoinJoin 16:04:49 * moneromoon[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/uXHWWyiXPwNIuvWnuBmMJwsP/message.txt > 16:05:03 Not sure about that 16:05:09 lol 16:05:12 Bitcoin is still a great investment 16:05:15 no. im the oracle. I know. 16:05:30 i think im going to be a monero maximalist 16:06:14 When the time comes, same 16:06:15 yeah but if Bitcoin went to 1million$ 16:06:15 Then it'd be pretty safe bet to say Monero goes to 40k$ 16:06:15 % wise you'd make more money with Monero 16:06:16 > <@yonatanb_:matrix.org> sent an image. 16:06:16 * makes me wanna be a monero maximalist 16:06:46 what marximalist? 16:06:46 no maximalist 16:06:56 * "what marximalist?" 16:09:07 Does someone know is there a dedicated channel for discussions about mymonero or light wallets in general? 16:09:32 #mymonero exists (or existed at least). 16:11:06 There's #feather on OFTC, that's the only one I know of 16:25:09 if they implement lightning and cashshuffle like protocol it will still remain the king of crypto 16:26:05 Whirlpool is a sort of cashshuffle, unlimited remixes and 1 time pool fee. 16:26:35 but you still cant hide your wealth with bitcoin 16:27:18 You can split your balance into multiple UTXOs, but again, that's a headache 16:27:33 Bitcoin is privacy if you have decent opsec and are tech savvy 16:27:49 easier with monero or pirate chain 16:30:08 * moneromooo facepalms 16:30:13 bitcoin isn't private even if you are tech savvy >_> IMO 16:30:13 Trackers can also see that you used a mixer.. 16:30:38 btc, so easy to use https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoNazPsXEAIe7VQ?format=jpg&name=small 16:30:54 you should be - or at least have someone who is. that is if you want to implement tech in your life. or just go full amish analogue 16:36:42 > <@monero.moon:monero.social> bitcoin isn't private even if you are tech savvy >_> IMO 16:36:42 > Trackers can also see that you used a mixer.. 16:36:42 Yes and no, you could make undetectable CoinJoins integrated into every day transactions 16:37:08 Samourai Stonewall(x2) and Stowaway are a good example 16:38:06 but theyre not.. 16:38:07 hence Monero >_> 16:38:09 those get flagged as mixing in chainalysis, fwiw 16:40:37 Monero already has solutions integrated into every day transactions by default.. 16:40:37 Sure Bitcoin "could" do something too 16:40:37 but they dont.. Monero does. 16:40:55 But but but 16:46:26 * styxx[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/xoFRtOocUgGZhDeLvHLbvyFc/message.txt > 17:30:46 and Wasabi 17:31:12 lol 17:31:19 Read the article by OXT research? 17:31:30 Mix 10 BTC or more and get rekt with Wasabi 17:32:04 wasabi also gets flagged as high risk/mixing in chainalysis 17:32:32 what's wasabi 17:33:06 not surprised at all. 17:33:06 use xmr \o/ 17:33:06 a wallet, that exchanges view the same as a mixing service 17:33:08 btc wallet with coinjoin service built in 18:02:53 hey yo 18:04:38 Yo 18:05:36 I was wondering 18:05:52 does anyone know where I could go if I wanted to program in exchange for xmr? 18:08:02 ? 18:08:31 I just wanna earn some monero 18:08:47 I don't understand the question 18:08:53 ok 18:08:54 got it 18:09:05 you want to code and earn xmr in exchange 18:09:10 yes 18:09:35 I can do a lot. maybe something small at first, I just want to see what its like 18:09:53 or if its even possible 18:15:18 have you checked out the monero website? 18:15:55 https://ccs.getmonero.org/ 18:16:02 are they hiring? I meant like, programming odd jobs like unit tests for a dozen millinero or so 18:16:46 if your a web developer - add an advertisement that you'll update the website or something 18:16:46 theres a lot of out-dated info on the monero website that needs updating idk 18:17:07 I'm more of a back end guy 18:17:24 You know what I can offer 18:17:40 millionblockclub: if you can code some PHP, I'll be sure to send you some millinero or more if you can update RPC methods for monerophp library 18:17:54 I do know how to install single user mastodon instances, peertube, openstreamingplatform 18:18:02 apache, nginx, postgres, RoR 18:18:13 I can brush my php up sure 18:18:32 I am a whitehat by day trade 18:19:08 I just wanna do this for experience 18:19:26 infosec? 18:19:33