-
usernetinternet[
selsta: lol i saw that, 12 hours per day including weekends๐
maybe they are using some of the proposal funds to buy stimulants๐
-
nioc
hopefully everyone is improving the shitty code that they run on :D
-
-
usernetinternet[
Monero citadel
-
jonah_xd[m]
pepe moment
-
vnkctqssufvu
Look on the bright side. At least you don't need to obsess over signs of life from FUK now.
-
litecoingent[m]
Is anyone aware of new hardware wallets being worked on that will support Monero? I hate the Ledger.
-
selsta
Trezor
-
litecoingent[m]
Yeah but doesn't the Trezor lack a secure element?
-
selsta
I don't know.
-
-
kloinka[m]
is there an issue with GUI v0.17.2.0 and Ledger Nano S? Testing and getting "Unable to open device 1:11415"
-
kloinka[m]
Updated Ledger Monero App...All OK now :)
-
selsta
sorry, ledger keeps version locking their app
-
selsta
which is a bit annoying for users
-
kloinka[m]
Not a huge issue...got used to the Ledger App dance ๐
-
kloinka[m]
Cake mob wallet flawlessly connected to my updated node๐๏ธ
-
ThaHandyman
kloink
-
cstfrqde[m]
Hi again, another somewhat technical question. I have fully synched node (thanks moneromooo), and there are some transfers out that I expected to find, but do not see (on that same day, by contrast, there were transfers in). When I open my wallet it says there are key images missing, which I need to import. Could the absence of certain key images make your balance appear higher than it is? This is, I should add, a
-
cstfrqde[m]
watch-only wallet.
-
cstfrqde[m]
<cstfrqde[m] "Hi again, another somewhat techn"> And, relatedly, what happens if you fail to import your key images?
-
selsta
cstfrqde[m]: yes, without key images change will be added on top of your balance
-
cstfrqde[m]
selsta: does this mean that if you are missing a key image your balance is _greater_ than what your wallet shows, or less than?
-
endor00[m]
Smaller than what it shows
-
endor00[m]
It will think that some outputs are still unspent, when in fact they are spent (so you don't own them anymore)
-
cstfrqde[m]
got it, makes sense. I guess that means that you just might not be able to spend as is supposedly in your wallet. the absence of key images doesn't prevent you from spending coins you already have?
-
endor00[m]
Yeah, you can still spend other outputs just fine
-
endor00[m]
But if you try to include a spent output in your tx, it will get rejected
-
cstfrqde[m]
Right. And key images that you don't have are lost forever, presumably?
-
cstfrqde[m]
or is there a way to retrieve them by rescanning the blockchain? This was a fresh blockchain download, I should add.
-
endor00[m]
I'm not sure how this would work for an offline wallet, but an online wallet will definitely pick them up as spent
-
endor00[m]
(when you rescan the chain)
-
endor00[m]
(Doesn't matter when you downloaded the blockchain, for this scenario)
-
cstfrqde[m]
got it. Yeah, hm. Is there some documentation that might point me in the right direction? a quick search does not bring up anything immediately relevant
-
cstfrqde[m]
Has anyone switched over from using the old-school offline wallet/watch-only addresses to a hardware wallet? If so, did you have to import key images then, as well?
-
cstfrqde[m]
<endor00[m] "(when you rescan the chain)"> yeah, quite sure that rescanning the chain does restore key images... just rescanned the whole chain and the previous debits that I could see are now no longer there. I guess the best thing to do is to copy over the blockchain to a USB, import it into the offline computer and then rescan the chain there. Just not sure how to copy over that updated wallet state back to the online
-
cstfrqde[m]
computer.
-
endor00[m]
well, once you've updated the offline wallet you will be able to export the key images again
-
cstfrqde[m]
I am an idiot... answer was right there the whole time. just `export_key_images` on offline wallet and import them. Sorry for wasting your time
-
Bill48105
on bright side those netsplits don't seem to cause Wallet to excess flood anymore so guess my update worked.. fingers crossed eh
-
somethingUniqueR
.faucet
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: Of 8 & 7, which is โ7
-
somethingUniqueR
7
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: @bonuspot tipped 0.000005 XMR to somethingUniqueR [02821b10] Wait โ23 hrs 59 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01542177
-
somethingUniqueR
.balace
-
somethingUniqueR
.balance
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: โข Your balance is: 0.0007978 XMR (โ0.26 USD)
-
Bill48105
lambo soon
-
oceanus[m]
wtf m8
-
hmmp
-
azy
yes
-
sech1
"How can I spend from my cold storage wallet?" that part is bad. There is a way to spend from cold wallet without connecting it to the internet
-
sech1
you prepare a tx on the view-only wallet and then sign the tx offline
-
-
Mochi101
ieatglueinthegul, did you post that so we could all feel sorry for him because he's a nutcase?
-
pixelized[m]
๐ i thought the clip was kind of entertaining
-
pixelized[m]
mcafee being a funny boi
-
pixelized[m]
and accurate
-
xrv0[m]
<ieatglueinthegul "VID_20210412_110121_826.mp4"> Hilarious
-
azy
i love mcaffee
-
azy
bad motherfucker, at something close to 70 years old too
-
ieatglueinthegul
<Mochi101 "ieatglueinthegulag, did you post"> Filtered
-
xrv0[m]
-
raptly[m]
T
-
biscuitsboars[m]
Any opensource place alternate to that as all top coins. I like to buy ARRR Directly than exchange with btc or monero or any rubykube instance you know
-
moneromooo
Hi bot.
-
cstfrqde[m]
Hello again! So after doing `export_key_images all <filename>` from my offline wallet and importing them into my watch-only wallet using `import_key_images` all, and rescanning the blockchain, my wallet still says "Some owned outputs have missing key images - import_key_images needed"
-
dEBRUYNE
Did you try import_key_images <filename>
-
dEBRUYNE
?
-
cstfrqde[m]
Sorry for the typo in my message. Yes, that is what I did.
-
dEBRUYNE
-
cstfrqde[m]
1. offline computer: `export_key_images all <filename>`
-
cstfrqde[m]
2. copy over `<filename>` to online computer and then do `import_key_images <filename>`
-
cstfrqde[m]
3. online computer: `rescan_bc` (and `rescan_spent`, though I am not sure the latter was relevant in this case)
-
cstfrqde[m]
Hm, so this wallet is years old. I've successfully made transfers with it in the past. Having said that, I guess it couldn't hurt to try the `import/export_outputs` thing.
-
cstfrqde[m]
More serious problem: when I try to open my offline wallet I get `Error: failed to load wallet: basic_string::_replace_aux` (sorry if there are any typos there -- transcribing this by-hand)
-
cstfrqde[m]
(NB: an older version `wallet_file` works fine. Also, still have access to my seed etc
-
moneromooo
It does that if you use a previous monero version than the one you save it with. Don't do that.
-
moneromooo
Actually, it might be a bug if you're on mac. Are you on mac ?
-
cstfrqde[m]
Got it. Does the permanently corrupt the file? because I am now trying to use the same version as I did previously and I am getting the same error
-
cstfrqde[m]
No, not on Mac. Linux.
-
moneromooo
It does not corrupt the file, it just fails to load it. Just use the most recent version.
-
cstfrqde[m]
<moneromooo "It does that if you use a previo"> My understanding of what you wrote here is that I should be using the same version.
-
moneromooo
Same version is always better, yes.
-
cstfrqde[m]
I have tried both same version and most recent version of wallet software to open the file and I get the same problem.
-
moneromooo
What arch ?
-
moneromooo
There was a bug with platforms where sizeof(long) is 32 (some mac at least).
-
moneromooo
er, 4, not 32
-
cstfrqde[m]
x86_64
-
moneromooo
So you're claiming you saved that wallet cache with some monero version,and that same version can't open it again, right ?
-
cstfrqde[m]
Yes. Additionally, if I try to open an earlier snapshot of that wallet file with the same command, it works.
-
moneromooo
Before saving it last, what did you do (ie, what got saved in it that was not saved the previous time) ?
-
cstfrqde[m]
I think I figured it out (thanks to your line of questions ๐). Could it be related to the read/write permissions on the file? For a somewhat unrelated reason I was messing with these.
-
cstfrqde[m]
Hm, that's not it. I've changed them those permissions to be the same as the file that works, and I get still get the same error. I don't think I did anything else other than run `export_key_images`
-
cstfrqde[m]
This actually isn't the critical thing for me. I have my seed, so I can regenerate the wallet file. But, if I do that, I am wondering whether there is a way to retrieve old key images for the offline wallet.
-
moneromooo
Key images are deterministic. You can regenerate them if you lose them.
-
gkdzvruwn
There are multiple psychological hooks to keep Monero community members in place. Here is one:
-
gkdzvruwn
-
gkdzvruwn
Notice that Scientologists don't stand on street corners saying "Would you like to talk about our Lord and Saviour, Xenu?"
-
gkdzvruwn
Put yourself instead in the shoes of someone who spent $10,000 and 2-3 years of their life on their courses
-
gkdzvruwn
And you get a bunch of bad sci-fi - you have two choices:
-
gkdzvruwn
- either swallow a very bitter pill that you wasted a pile of money and a portion of your life
-
gkdzvruwn
- or swallow the sci-fi, and from that point on, you will swallow _anything_ they tell you.
-
gkdzvruwn
In the cult trade that's called "insider doctrine".
-
gkdzvruwn
Would you like to talk about our Lord and Saviour of NASA, Howard Chu?
-
gkdzvruwn
-
clavi
ah the FUD is coming in
-
mechanic41turk[m
yeah keep the fud coming, I still gotta accumulate in lower prices.
-
usernetinternet[
Expect nuclear levels of fud in the coming days from shorters and glowies
-
mechanic41turk[m
nice
-
ieatglueinthegul
Hasnt XMR been the most shorted crypto on the market for months now
-
Mochi101
is it?
-
rupee[m]
.8ball is monero heavily shorted?
-
Wallet
rupee[m]: NO
-
rupee[m]
^
-
kloinka[m]
Don't height-shame Moreano
-
mechanic41turk[m
morono the best
-
kloinka[m]
moreno is Kaiju!
-
usernetinternet[
ieatglueinthegulag: yeah short interest on monero is super high, but a lot got liquidated recently
-
usernetinternet[
Especially on the xmr/btc pair
-
rupee[m]
where do you see that usernetinternet ?
-
rupee[m]
I see that shorts have increased on bitfinex and that some shorts got liquided in futures
-
usernetinternet[
At work so i have no links but search monero short interest on google and you will probably find it
-
rupee[m]
Are you relying on the bitfinex data to say "short interest on monero is super high", but relying on the futures data to say "a lot got liquidated"?
-
rupee[m]
-
usernetinternet[
Shorters always double down kek
-
ieatglueinthegul
Fook em
-
lumane[m]
Is Monero going to be worth a lot of money?
-
PapuaHardyNet
morono is my favorite term
-
mechanic41turk[m
<lumane[m] "Is Monero going to be worth a lo"> 'bout tree fiddy
-
lumane[m]
How much is that?
-
PapuaHardyNet
3.50
-
selsta
>Monero is developed using open-source protocol, which is based on RandomX.
-
-
cstfrqde[m]
<moneromooo "Key images are deterministic. Yo"> I see. How does this work with offline wallets, though?
-
xrv0[m]
Deterministic means they can be derived from the seed
-
cstfrqde[m]
Right, but based on this explanation of key images (
monerodocs.org/cryptography/asymmetric/key-image) it seems like in order to regenerate them you need a local copy of the blockchain. Specifically, `x` and `P` refer to transaction outputs.
-
gumman
.faucet
-
Wallet
gumman: Square is howโ many sides?
-
gumman
4
-
Wallet
gumman: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000006 XMR to gumman [f58762c7] Wait โ23 hrs 55 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01542117
-
gumman
thank you
-
cstfrqde[m]
In this case, I've successfully imported all the key images from my offline wallet into my online wallet but the latter still says there are key images missing.
-
moneromooo
How did you export those key images ?
-
cstfrqde[m]
from my offline wallet `export_key_images all <filename>`
-
moneromooo
How did you export outputs before that ?
-
cstfrqde[m]
I don't know. It's a pretty old wallet. I haven't done this for quite a while.
-
moneromooo
Did you receive send/anything since that time ?
-
moneromooo
(from/to that wallet)
-
cstfrqde[m]
I am not exactly sure but I am definitely surprised at how old my most recent sends are according to my watch-only wallet.
-
clavi
rupee[m]: >shortxmr.com
-
clavi
why do they paint gains in red color, what did they mean by this...
-
moneromooo
Well, if you're not sure, don't skip steps.
-
moneromooo
Just do the whole thing, especially if skipping some things fails.
-
cstfrqde[m]
I really don't mean to skip steps... I am not sure what steps you are referring to.
-
rupee[m]
<clavi "why do they paint gains in red c"> if you're short and the price goes up, it's a loss, not a gain.
-
moneromooo
Export outs, import them, export key images, import them.
-
clavi
too bad for them ig
-
cstfrqde[m]
OK, got it. Will do. Thank you.
-
moneromooo
With the all keyword for both exports.
-
cstfrqde[m]
๐๏ธ
-
cstfrqde[m]
error: `Failed to import outputsstd::bad_alloc`
-
moneromooo
Then bug.
-
moneromooo
Does the tests pass ?
-
moneromooo
The cold_signing functional tests, in particular.
-
selsta
cstfrqde[m]: are you using v0.17.2.0 on both systems?
-
cstfrqde[m]
Haven't run the test suite. And selsta, no, the offline computer uses an old version of monero-wallet-cli
-
selsta
you have to use the same version on both systems
-
moneromooo
Jesus. You said you were using the same version above, did you not.
-
cstfrqde[m]
I apologize, I misunderstood you. I thought you asked whether I was using the same version of the software which I used to create the offline wallet originally.
-
moneromooo
So that explains all your wallet loading stuff.
-
cstfrqde[m]
Got it. My mistake. Thank you.
-
selsta
was almost worried that we had to do another release lol
-
moneromooo
I'll catch that OOM and add a message to complain about versions.
-
cstfrqde[m]
Part of the problem is I use nixOS, which is always a little behind on releases. So my online computer is still on 17.1.9 but the version I downloaded from getmonero is 17.2. Sorry about that. But yeah, a clearer error message would be quite helpful.
-
moneromooo
I meant for the wallet cache.
-
moneromooo
For the output/key image files, we have a version number, maybe it did not get updated.
-
moneromooo
Or maybe it's a real bug.
-
melona
hello
-
clavi
hi
-
melona
hyc how to mine on smarphone
-
hyc
download the android build of the software
-
melona
if i dont disable jit monero crash
-
hyc
what phone?
-
melona
xiaomi 8 or 9
-
hyc
dunno. works fine for me on Huawei P10
-
melona
if i dont do randomx-umask=8 i dont remember well...
-
melona
crashs
-
melona
so if i disable jit works but is useless
-
melona
right?
-
hyc
probably pointless, yeah
-
melona
maybe need huge page enabled?
-
selsta
-
selsta
this one related?
-
hyc
huge page is only an optimization, doesn't prevent basic function
-
hyc
my phone kernel doesn't even have hugepages
-
hyc
selsta maybe
-
melona
selsta i added and compile but nothing changed!
-
melona
same crashs
-
melona
the only solution is jit disable
-
melona
so no solution
-
cstfrqde[m]
moneromooo I didn't see any error message complaining about version mismatches, if that's what you mean. I also was able to import key images. just successfully exported/imported outputs and imported key images. Thank you again.
-
moneromooo
So, to be clear, it worked now with the full set of steps ?
-
hyc
melona: what are you compiling with?
-
hyc
what version of tools?
-
melona
docker
-
melona
-
hyc
this uses clang, as I suspected. the patch selsta linked is currently only written for gcc
-
hyc
I believe the patch will need a tweak for clang but haven't looked into it
-
melona
hmm
-
hyc
-
melona
good let'c
-
cstfrqde[m]
<moneromooo "So, to be clear, it worked now w"> Yes, it worked. Thanks so much.
-
fibonacci
.balance
-
Wallet
fibonacci: โข Your balance is: 0.00071 XMR (โ0.23 USD)
-
melona
-
melona
he answered
-
sech1
try to compile xmrig in termux, it should work
-
melona
hyc are u here
-
clavi
sech1: what hashrate do you even get on a phone
-
fibonacci
.balance
-
Wallet
fibonacci: โข Your balance is: 0.00071 XMR (โ0.23 USD)
-
fibonacci
.soak all
-
Wallet
fibonacci soaked 0.00004 XMR (0.00071 Total) upon 15 users @ 918 minutes moneromooo Biโll48105 Wallet donkeydonkey[m] rupee[m] hmmp clavi stev3 selsta Mochi101 sech1 gkdzvruwn dEBRUYNE PapuaHardyNet hyc @bonuspot (0.00011 scraps) [13f09faf]
-
Mochi101
oh my
-
Mochi101
Thanks fibonacci
-
sech1
.balance
-
Wallet
sech1: โข Your balance is: 0.00485065 XMR (โ1.56 USD)
-
abcdefg_3rssi
for running a monero node on a vps do i need to download the entire blockchain or can i sync with the prune command?
-
abcdefg_1rssi
oh shit im in here on two different nicknames
-
Mochi101
You can sync with prune abcdefg_1rssi
-
abcdefg_1rssi
thanks
-
abcdefg_1rssi
huh weird
-
selsta
abcdefg_3rssi: make sure to use v0.17.2.0 as it contains fresh checkpoints that will result in faster sync
-
abcdefg_1rssi
yea i just updated on my laptop
-
abcdefg_1rssi
to the new version
-
abcdefg_1rssi
ill make sure to get the new version for the server too im just setting it up now
-
abcdefg_1rssi
playing around with it
-
abcdefg_1rssi
./monerod --sync-pruned-blocks is the correct command right or is it --prune-blockchain
-
selsta
abcdefg_1rssi: --prune-blockchain is for pruning
-
abcdefg_1rssi
so to initially start and sync the node I start it with that command right
-
abcdefg_1rssi
selsta
-
selsta
yes
-
abcdefg_1rssi
thanks
-
selsta
--sync-pruned-blocks allows you to get pruned blocks from peers which might result in less bandwidth used
-
selsta
at least that's how I understand it
-
selsta
without it you get a full block and prune it locally after receiving
-
abcdefg_1rssi
so prune blockchain still syncs the entire blockchain but then prunes it?
-
abcdefg_1rssi
so it doesnt save time just saves space?
-
selsta
yes
-
abcdefg_1rssi
ty
-
bigslim[m]
Monero making some nice moves this past week on the charts
-
pixelized[m]
yeah
-
pixelized[m]
do you think it'll keep it up?
-
abcdefg_1rssi
.val xmr
-
Wallet
abcdefg_1rssi: XMR -> USD โข Avg: โ320.02 โข ccc/OKEX: โ$319.79 24Hฮ: 2.89% Vol: 489.74K [0m] โข cmc: โ$320.25 24Hฮ: 5.38% 7Dฮ: 20.33442% [< 27m]
-
abcdefg_1rssi
might dip
-
abcdefg_1rssi
already kind of starting
-
abcdefg_1rssi
high was like above 340
-
abcdefg_1rssi
im stacking monero so i hope it dips a little so i can buy more
-
abcdefg_1rssi
either way i will buy more though i think it has a lot more to gain
-
pixelized[m]
i hope you're right
-
pixelized[m]
well, it definitely has a lot more to gain
-
pixelized[m]
but i'm uncertain about chonky dips
-
abcdefg_1rssi
with the crazy bullrun crypto is in right now i think people are starting to realize xmr is undervalued
-
abcdefg_1rssi
its just difficult to buy on typical exchanges so it hasn't had the crazy gains like other cryptos had
-
Quotes
CRYPTO IS NOT CRYPTOCURRENCY เฒ _เฒ ~ IT REFERS TO CRYPTOGRAPHY, abcdefg_1rssi
-
abcdefg_1rssi
my thought at least
-
abcdefg_1rssi
i doubt it dips much at all unless btc crashes
-
lord_fomo[m]
i use $crypto
-
apotheon
$crypto is better than crypto for referring to cryptocurrency
-
apotheon
I think crypto$ might be better still, though, because it doesn't look like a Perl variable.
-
angrymonkeyboi[m
$crypto reminds me of php, and that makes me want to throw up
-
apotheon
even worse than Perl
-
apotheon
make it crypto$
-
moneroist
is CLSAG implemented last year incompatible with DLSAG?
-
gingeropolous
i like that. crypto$. ima do that
-
hyc
cryptobucks
-
pixelized[m]
crypto$ doesn't have a very nice ring to it imo
-
pixelized[m]
might as well just go with cryptocurrency in that case
-
gingeropolous
eh, for me its more for typing
-
gingeropolous
i don't talk out loud to humans about crypto$
-
pixelized[m]
also, crypto$ looks like the way a bitter american-style liberal might refer to the plural of cryptocurrencies
-
pixelized[m]
kind of like how open source fanatics refer to microsoft as m$
-
as2333
micro$hit is a fine spelling for 'microsoft'
-
moneromooo
crypto$ makes me think petro dollars, makes me think hidden dollars for the govt slush fund used to prop up dictators around the world.
-
patix0331[m]
.
-
patix0331[m]
*
-
apotheon
18:40 < moneromooo> crypto$ makes me think petro dollars, makes me think hidden dollars for the govt slush fund used to prop up dictators around the world.
-
apotheon
hiding in plain sight
-
apotheon
confusing the gub'mint
-
apotheon
You've just convinced me that there's value in using "crypto$".
-
PapuaHardyNet
crypto is cryptocurrency
-
hyc
crypto is cryptosporidium
-
PapuaHardyNet
surely you wouldn't want me to call it "blockchain tech", now, do you?
-
apotheon
crypto is short for cryptography, which is why it's used as the prefix to cryptocurrency -- a cryptographic currency
-
apotheon
but whatever
-
apotheon
It's not like meaning matters.
-
Mochi101
It's all cryptic to me.
-
apotheon
that too
-
apotheon
meaning becomes meaningless
-
apotheon
There are things we can't just say and expect to be understood any longer.
-
apotheon
"hacker" and "capitalist" and "freedom"
-
apotheon
They've lost meanings that used to be common, and no new words have arisen to take their place.
-
Mochi101
apotheon, don't say those words when as2333 is around.
-
apotheon
har
-
apotheon
at least two of them
-
apotheon
Is there danger in saying "hacker"?
-
as2333
I hear that hackers use symetric cryptocurrency to encrypt secret stuff
-
abcdefg_1rssi
.val xmr
-
Wallet
abcdefg_1rssi: XMR -> USD โข Avg: โ319.57 โข ccc/LAToken: โ$318.88 24Hฮ: -2.7% Vol: 521.27K [< 2m] โข cmc: โ$320.26 24Hฮ: 2.22% 7Dฮ: 20.29032% [< 20m]
-
apotheon
Mochi101: You sommoned as2333.
-
apotheon
err
-
apotheon
s/som/sum/
-
apotheon
wtf, apotheon
-
as2333
I've been sommoned
-
PapuaHardyNet
so I just heard about BlockFi
-
apotheon
sorry
-
PapuaHardyNet
hahahah
-
apotheon
Have you heard of
sovereignstreet.art yet?
-
apotheon
I think BlockFi might result in very complicated tax filings.
-
PapuaHardyNet
not if you convert it back into moonero, right?
-
apotheon
If BlockFi's thing is liquidity pool stuff (I don't know if it is, but if so) you probably trigger a taxable event for every trade with the liquidity you provide.
-
apotheon
I'm kinda guessing.
-
apotheon
IANATL
-
PapuaHardyNet
sidenote, bisq has some UI breaking bugs in its current version if you install it from AUR
-
apotheon
ouch
-
apotheon
It's a good thing I don't use AUR!
-
apotheon
Of course, bisq doesn't install at all with pkg_add.
-
PapuaHardyNet
"Although Bitcoin and Litecoin excel in most aspects, they do have a significant weakness โ fungibility. Fungibility means that certain items could be mutually interchangeable. For example, one dollar bill is equal to another one dollar bill. One 5kg (999.99) fine gold bar could be interchanged for another 5kg (999.99) gold bar โ in practical terms, itโs trading one exact item for a different
-
PapuaHardyNet
exact item. Some may argue that Bitcoin and Litecoin are fungible due to 1 LTC = 1 LTC, but unfortunately โ in the real world, thatโs not the case."
-
PapuaHardyNet
-
apotheon
yep
-
apotheon
seems about right
-
apotheon
so far
-
apotheon
What is the future of Litecoin?
-
PapuaHardyNet
i have no idea, but I hope it eclipses btc
-
hyc
why would it eclipse btc? it's a clone of btc
-
PapuaHardyNet
radically low fees makes it actually usable
-
apotheon
That's what BCH is for, though.
-
apotheon
One thing I can say for Litecoin is that it seems better than BSV.
-
Lyza
BCH :-|
-
B0g4r7
Litecoin was supposed to be ASIC resistant, but that resistance was overcome.
-
apotheon
right
-
apotheon
not really filling me with confidence in its future
-
apotheon
Hilariously, ASICs are supposed to make operations more efficient, but the economics of BTC just result in more ASICs running, so the efficiency is overcome by volume.
-
apotheon
. . . and by the need to manufacture more special-purpose processors that get replaced every few years without even getting shoved into secondary use because they're so specialized.
-
PapuaHardyNet
Surely you guys understand that the bitcoin forks and clones using the same name make people loathe oto use it?
-
PapuaHardyNet
BCH, BSV, then the other forks of these two
-
PapuaHardyNet
I wonder how these forks still exist smh
-
apotheon
BCH because it's not as scammy as BSV and people can actually use it for transactions; BSV because it's propped up by a weird cult of personality
-
apotheon
That, at least, is my impression.
-
PapuaHardyNet
see, I know that because I follow bitcoin drama
-
PapuaHardyNet
newcomers will avoid it entirely
-
apotheon
maybe
-
apotheon
then they'll come to Monero
-
apotheon
yay
-
apotheon
moar money
-
PapuaHardyNet
I was recently reading about the creation of bearer bonds, and how it allowed money to flow freely in Europe, while USA languaished in their Bretton Woods regulations
-
PapuaHardyNet
bearer bonds were basically monero for that time
-
apotheon
fun
-
PapuaHardyNet
fungible, easy to store and carry around, and didn't depend on regulations
-
PapuaHardyNet
also, the owners of the bearer bonds earned an interest by holding (HODLing) it
-
apotheon
as long as someone didn't default
-
apotheon
(har)
-
PapuaHardyNet
nah, Europe was flush with cash back then
-
PapuaHardyNet
All that illegal money from Russia and Nazis stashing their money so others can't get to it
-
PapuaHardyNet
all that money went into Switzerland banks
-
apotheon
I see.
-
apotheon
right
-
apotheon
forgot about that
-
apotheon
(not having been in Europe at the time)
-
PapuaHardyNet
never too late to go to Europe
-
charolastra
not anymore. swiss banking fully cooperates with US/EU
-
PapuaHardyNet
Anyway, the point I was going to make was this: bearer bonds helped not only the rich and powerful, and the arguably evil, but also the vulnerable: the European Jews who had hidden their money from the Nazis and wanted to keep it out of their hands
-
apotheon
I've been to Europe, just not Way Back When.
-
PapuaHardyNet
charolastra: surely there's some safe haven re: fiat banking right now? Or do the rich simply buy real estate to stash their cash these days?
-
charolastra
art/NFTs :P
-
PapuaHardyNet
real estate / art / boats / gucci
-
PapuaHardyNet
lmao
-
PapuaHardyNet
how old are you apo
-
charolastra
i don't know. i think they might do it through those english islands or some caribian "nation"
-
PapuaHardyNet
charolastra: You mean Nevis?
-
charolastra
never heard of that
-
charolastra
yes, maby. or around the time when the panama papers and similiar leaked. and there was an office building on an island where 100k of companies were registered
-
apotheon
PapuaHardyNet: I've been 42 for almost four years.
-
gumman
.faucet
-
Wallet
gumman: OOPS! 30 min penalty. 20 hours to go.
-
Mochi101
cheater
-
gumman
:(
-
somethingUniqueR
.facuet
-
somethingUniqueR
.balance
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: โข Your balance is: 0.0007978 XMR (โ0.25 USD)
-
somethingUniqueR
.faucet
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: How many were Three Littleโ Pigs
-
somethingUniqueR
3
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000004 XMR to somethingUniqueR [89e06e56] Wait โ1 day 1 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01552473
-
abcdefg_1rssi
.faucet
-
Wallet
abcdefg_1rssi: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000013 XMR to abcdefg_1rssi [c93847bf] Wait โ23 hrs 56 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01552343
-
abcdefg_1rssi
oh damn for FREE
-
PapuaHardyNet
.balance
-
Wallet
PapuaHardyNet: Your default coin is now set to XMR. Change with coins command.
-
abcdefg_1rssi
no question
-
Wallet
PapuaHardyNet: โข Your balance is: 0.0008 XMR (โ0.26 USD)
-
abcdefg_1rssi
.soak all
-
Wallet
abcdefg_1rssi soaked 0.00004 XMR (0.0007119 Total) upon 15 users @ 274 minutes xmrbot sech1 chaper PapuaHardyNet Mochi101 rupee[m] charolastra Wallet FIBONACCI selsta clavi hyc as2333 moneromooo Gingeropolous @bonuspot (0.0001119 scraps) [5ab36982]
-
rupee[m]
thanks abcdefg_1rssi
-
PapuaHardyNet
danke
-
rupee[m]
.faucet
-
Wallet
rupee[m]: How many digits iโs 8
-
rupee[m]
1
-
Wallet
rupee[m]: @bonuspot tipped 0.000045 XMR to rupee[m] [83ecc97e] Wait โ1 day 1 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01559033
-
somethingUniqueR
i would said 8 lol
-
Mochi101
thanks abcdefg_1rssi
-
Inge-
.faucet
-
Wallet
Inge-: How many digits is โ10
-
Inge-
2
-
Wallet
Inge-: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000033 XMR to Inge- [9796df2e] Wait โ23 hrs 56 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01558703
-
Inge-
.c 0.0000033*100000
-
Wallet
Inge-: 0.0000033*100000 - invalid amount (not a number)
-
somethingUniqueR
.balance
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: โข Your balance is: 0.0007982 XMR (โ0.25 USD)
-
Inge-
.balance
-
Wallet
Inge-: โข Your balance is: 0.0051333 XMR (โ1.64 USD)
-
Mochi101
Retiring Inge- ?
-
Inge-
getting close
-
Mochi101
congrats
-
Mochi101
.balance
-
Wallet
Mochi101: โข Your balance is: 0.00008 XMR (โ0.03 USD)
-
Inge-
just waiting for a modest 400x pamp
-
Mochi101
only 400x?
-
Mochi101
Man, nobody sets their goals high anymore.
-
Inge-
I don't want to be greedy
-
Mochi101
I guess hey.
-
abcdefg_1rssi
anyone heard of njalla
-
abcdefg_1rssi
domain registration service
-
abcdefg_1rssi
can use monero to pay for domain registration no personal info required can sign up for accounts with an xmpp account
-
Mochi101
yes
-
abcdefg_1rssi
is it legit? safe?
-
abcdefg_1rssi
fed honeypot?
-
Mochi101
legit... but there is risk, obviously
-
apotheon
You could lose control of your domain if you lose your xmpp account.
-
abcdefg_1rssi
ccc.de is safe enough right?
-
abcdefg_1rssi
pretty well known xmpp service
-
PapuaHardyNet
njalla has a reputation in my circles
-
PapuaHardyNet
although the prices are ridiculous
-
as2333
you have to 'trust' ccc...
-
Mochi101
I wouldn't use ccc for stuff like that.
-
Mochi101
I wouldn;t trust ccc for anything.
-
apotheon
I don't know those people at all.
-
charolastra
why's that?
-
apotheon
I only trust people and inviolable principles (i.e. arithmetic).
-
apotheon
. . . and I only trust people to be who they are.
-
Mochi101
Because they allowed a massive Antifa to be displayed at the front entrance one of the times I went there.
-
apotheon
I only trust arithmetic to be what it is, too, I guess.
-
Mochi101
Antifa Flag
-
Mochi101
As if Antifa owned the venue
-
PapuaHardyNet
ccc.de is in germany, antifa is a global movement?
-
charolastra
true, they got pozzed. their reaction to Applebaum was also quite telling
-
charolastra
antifa was invented in germany
-
as2333
yep
-
PapuaHardyNet
what's the Applebaum thing?
-
as2333
the applebaum affair gave their game away
-
charolastra
basicly the first #metoo guy
-
Mochi101
PapuaHardyNet, I have a hard time taking anything from DE seriously.
-
PapuaHardyNet
I thought germany was a pretty good place. Then again, my standards are probably much lower than yours
-
Mochi101
I thought it was too.
-
Mochi101
I was mistaken.
-
charolastra
depends on your definition of good
-
Mochi101
yeah, this is true charolastra
-
PapuaHardyNet
good (to me) = strong social welfare institutes, low corruption, high privacy
-
charolastra
well, all 3 fail IMO
-
charolastra
sure, not as corrupt as maby italy but it's more institutionalized. basicly the state is the mafia
-
charolastra
they are subverting privacy as much as they can because of muh kiddyporn and terrorism
-
Mochi101
Social welfare is strong but they have to really penalize the honest, hard working people to make it happen. Basically makes them have a zombie workforce.
-
charolastra
and there is a minimal level of welfare, called Hartz4 where you won't die on the streets from malnurishment but you'll be fucked nevertheless
-
Mochi101
stronger than most countries though
-
Inge-
What is the correct balance?
-
apotheon
In Italy, the state is in the employ of the mafia, rather than itself being the mafia.
-
PapuaHardyNet
I think you are looking at it incorrectly: the honest, hard working people aren't being penalized
-
Mochi101
No?
-
PapuaHardyNet
They are only being penalized if the tax funds are going into the hands of corrupt officials
-
PapuaHardyNet
I haven't encountered welfare reliant people my entire life though, so I'm a bit biased
-
apotheon
Let's ignore, for the sake of argument, the fact that all tax funds in some way go into the hands of currupt officials, everywhere.
-
Mochi101
What about going into the pockets of lazy people who don't want to work, or the doctors that write them notes to miss work and get paid for it.
-
Mochi101
What about the energy subsidies that make the price of electricity way more expensive, and those subsidies go to private businesses.
-
lbbyeilhu
Why are you here? For the tech? Then you should be off at Zcash instead of trying to con newbies into a coin that doesn't work. For the money? If you put your money in BTC or ETH you would have been better off. For the magical crypto friends? Monero leadership laughs from losers like that. Find yourself more healthy realationships that don't laugh at you when they steal your money.
-
PapuaHardyNet
energy subsidies make the price of electricity expensive?
-
Mochi101
Energy subsidies that go to private businesses, paid for by the consumer through high energy costs.
-
PapuaHardyNet
you'll have to walk me through this
-
PapuaHardyNet
energy subsidy is simply high price that a private business asks for their service, correct?
-
Mochi101
Or how about the taxation that goes to housing corporations owned by cities and private investors that's used to rebuild old buildings so that they can be filled with refugees and have their rent paid for with even more taxes.
-
PapuaHardyNet
Hmm. I think what I lack is an ontology of alternate solutions
-
apotheon
panarchism
-
PapuaHardyNet
I agree that taxation is basically theft and I want people to use monero and not pay taxes
-
PapuaHardyNet
But without a social net, I don't think this libertarian "shadow state" can scale.
-
apotheon
It's basically illegal here to hire a homeless person of the street and let him sleep in a back room of your business.
-
apotheon
Thanks, zoning laws!
-
apotheon
s/of the street/off the street/
-
apotheon
Changing that one thing alone could take a lot of people off the street.
-
apotheon
Minimum wage laws with income tax make it effectively impossible to offer housing as part of employment.
-
KSaunder1on
lbbyeilhu: i'm here for the tech
-
apotheon
. . . even if the zoning restrictions weren't in the way.
-
KSaunder1on
i'm trying ro read Zero to Monero, still at Zero...
-
Mochi101
There's the rent control...
-
hyc
minimum wage laws aren't a social evil. unbounded executive pay is.
-
Mochi101
That also impede development.
-
Mochi101
and then there's the buildings with historical protection status
-
hyc
sucking as much profit out of companies as possible, by cutting expenses to the bone, making it impossible for employees to continue to deliver good quality, is evil.
-
hyc
diverting revenue from paying employees well, and sending it to VC bloodsuckers, is evil
-
PapuaHardyNet
is there a solution to that?
-
hyc
higher corporate tax rates
-
Mochi101
I disagree.
-
hyc
they encourage corps to reinvest more revenue into the company
-
PapuaHardyNet
lool, they'll just move money around
-
hyc
to avoid losing revenue to taxation
-
PapuaHardyNet
taxation only works on the poor
-
hyc
evidence of US from 1948 to 1971 says otherwise
-
PapuaHardyNet
you mean the Bretton Woods era?
-
Mochi101
hehehe
-
apotheon
hyc: The corporate executive pay problem is just an artifact of the problem of corporate business law in the first place.
-
usernetinternet[
Higher cop taxes can be avoided with higher exec pay cause you get less profit
-
usernetinternet[
Doesnt solve it
-
PapuaHardyNet
During that time it wasn't easy to move money as it is now
-
apotheon
Incorporation itself creates a broken-ass set of conditions for the larger economy.
-
hyc
apotheon: agreed
-
hyc
usernetinternet[: so make a law that salaray ratio cannot exceed e.g. 30:1 from highest to lowest paid employee
-
apotheon
The sheer weight of business regulations invented to "regulate" corporations creates a situation in which it's insane to not incorporate, though, because the corporation's limitation of liability is necessary for a business to survive the legal climate.
-
PapuaHardyNet
hyc: exec bonuses exist
-
hyc
tax those at a higher personal rate.
-
apotheon
Solve the problem, not the symptom. The salary rates of corporate raider execs is just a symptom.
-
PapuaHardyNet
that's a game of whack-a-mole
-
usernetinternet[
Could be an idea but personally i dont think govs should be able to set pay
-
KSaunder1on
we should make the corporate execs to drugs in the forest
-
hyc
this isn't setting pay, this is setting limits on pay inequity
-
KSaunder1on
that would do it, i think
-
Mochi101
I'm in agreement with you on that usernetinternet[
-
PapuaHardyNet
what
-
hyc
but there's definitely a lot of fundamental flaws in corporate law today.
-
usernetinternet[
hyc: that too, i just assume that all govs are corrupt and ceos would just find some scheme
-
PapuaHardyNet
but yes, govs setting pay just means lobbying needs to be more effective
-
hyc
corporations originally had a duty to serve the public good
-
hyc
that was an explicit part of corporate charters
-
Mochi101
???
-
apotheon
The very existence of corporate law is the fundamental problem of corporate law today.
-
hyc
also corporate charters had explicit lifetimes. start a company for a specific purpose, accomplish it, dissolve.
-
apotheon
Creating legal persons out of balance sheets is insane.
-
usernetinternet[
apotheon: true, that is cancerous
-
hyc
basically it's the same old "power corrupts" - because corporations concentrate power and have an unlimited lifetime, they corrupt without limit
-
apotheon
Once you create a legal framework for centralizing economic power in abstract structures like corporate organizations, you create a power for changing the law in favor of promoting the growth of such organizations.
-
Mochi101
hyc, how would that work for a farming corp?
-
apotheon
Once limited lifetime, public purpose corporations came into being, it was inevitable they would bend the law to allow them to exist indefinitely for purely egocentric purposes.
-
hyc
govt is structured to limit political power, via term limits etc. no such limit exists today on corporations, but it used to
-
Mochi101
hyc, please give evidence that there were limits on the existence of corporations.
-
hyc
Mochi101: you can specify the lifetime. I think some cities had corporate charters for 1000 years
-
Mochi101
1000 years?
-
apotheon
Government itself bends the law to increase power. Look at the current state of things like the uses of the US Constitution's commerce clause and the prevalence of effective legislation via executive orders.
-
apotheon
Democrats noisily oppose executive orders when Republicans are in office, but mostly just as lip service, they they shut their lips when a Democrats are in office.
-
hyc
Democrats spend the majority of their terms undoing the damage done by Republicans
-
Mochi101
-
apotheon
A gathering-place for malignant narcissists acting as a check on its own power is a joke.
-
hyc
so the use of whatever means is not really surprising
-
apotheon
Promoting the use of the sources of damage is not exactly going to reverse the damage.
-
apotheon
Every four-year term in the US for decades has been a net negative for the future prospects of the US.
-
apotheon
I doubt there has been a presidential term that wasn't a net negative since Grover Cleveland's first term.
-
hyc
those "oldest companies" weren't all corporations. the concept didn't exist back then.
-
apotheon
He was a Democrat, though, so there's that.
-
Mochi101
hyc, come on.
-
charolastra
very true. i'd guess the oldest actual corporations are around 100 years old. but even then they have changed during that time
-
apotheon
Corporations have existed since medieval guilds, at least.
-
apotheon
. . . and they've always been a bad idea.
-
hyc
-
Mochi101
nah
-
apotheon
Let individuals "do what thou wilt".
-
hyc
"a charter granted by the state to a group of investors to gather private funds for a specific purpose. Originally, charters were granted in the service of a public purpose, and could be revoked if this were not fulfilled. "
-
apotheon
keep the idea of power consolidation via government grant of charter out of it
-
hyc
"After Independence, American corporations, like the British companies before them, were chartered to perform specific public functions - digging canals, building bridges. Their charters lasted between 10 and 40 years, often requiring the termination of the corporation on completion of a specific task, setting limits on commercial interests and prohibiting any corporate participation in the political process."
-
Mochi101
It is a legal construct, a charter granted by the state to a group of investors to gather private funds for a specific purpose.
-
hyc
anyway... the reason the concept of corporations exists in the first place is to concentrate power to accomplish a public good that couldn't be done by individuals
-
usernetinternet[
Was this system due to a lack of fuctioning gov during that era?
-
hyc
it has been corrupted over time.
-
rupee[m]
so corporations used to basically be CCS proposals
-
Mochi101
I guess you're more into the privacy side of monero than the freedom side of it hey hyc ?
-
apotheon
That corruption was inevitable.
-
apotheon
Gathering resources means gathering the power to pervert supposedly positive ends.
-
hyc
freedom is endangered by concentration of power.
-
Mochi101
It is a legal construct, a charter granted by the state to a group of investors to gather private funds for a specific purpose.
-
apotheon
Second realm strategy can help undermine all this stuff in the long run.
-
hyc
that's why we spend so much effort on decentralization
-
Mochi101
Can't have your cake and eat it too though hyc
-
apotheon
I guess I don't ultimately care what someone claims the state should do, as long as the person's efforts are bent to the task of putting privacy and economics back in the hands of individuals so they can make the state irrelevant.
-
hyc
the state isn't ever going to be irrelevant. there will always be large challenges in life that no group of individuals can face
-
Mochi101
the state IS a group of individuals
-
hyc
building interstate transport, building plumbing/sewerage,telecoms
-
Mochi101
called citizens
-
hyc
all of those things jointly benefit everyone, should be jointly owned by everyone
-
hyc
and certainlyshould not be owned by a private corporation
-
hyc
once again: "Originally, charters were granted in the service of a public purpose, and could be revoked if this were not fulfilled."
-
gingeropolous
i really think things will change when the sole purpose of any effort is profit seeking
-
hyc
if your corporation fails to benefit the public, or worse, harms the public, it should be dissolved
-
gingeropolous
wait, need some flips in there
-
gingeropolous
when the sole purpose IS'NT profit seeking
-
Mochi101
Why should someone in Florida pay for someone's drug habits in California though hyc?
-
hyc
they don't
-
gingeropolous
disinflationary money is gonna reverberate through every part of our society imo
-
Mochi101
yes they do
-
Mochi101
indirectly, but they do
-
hyc
nonsense. the amt of money FLorida contributes to federal budget is dwarfed by the amount it receives
-
apotheon
We don't need roads where we're going.
-
Mochi101
ok... maybe
-
Mochi101
switch the two states around then hyc
-
Mochi101
Why should someone in California pay for the drug habits of someone in Florida... better?
-
hyc
lol
-
usernetinternet[
I dont think states should count cents too much, not good for nation as a whole
-
hyc
indeed
-
Mochi101
Well, I can;t argue the point you make without numbers hyc, so just switch it around like that.
-
endogenic
tragedy of the commons though.. some corps intentionally exploit it, yet dont apparently "not benefit" society
-
PapuaHardyNet
who recommended that second realm strategy book here?
-
PapuaHardyNet
it was a really interesting book
-
Mochi101
hyc, so you liked some of the things that Trump did?
-
hyc
not that I can recall
-
apotheon
PapuaHardyNet: maybe me
-
apotheon
I did mention it
-
apotheon
.
-
endogenic
the issue isnt corporations anyway.. it's people
-
endogenic
whether the person intentionally exploits X or not
-
apotheon
A big part of the problem is power centralization.
-
apotheon
Corporations are a way to achieve that.
-
endogenic
yep, and people can just keep starting them
-
apotheon
When people are the problem, reducing power centralization makes it harder for those people to cause problems.
-
hyc
which is why corporate charters need limited lifetimes
-
endogenic
that's a way to remove humans from the determination of their own destiny though
-
apotheon
Something like Monero decentralizes power.
-
Mochi101
-
endogenic
power centralization isnt the issue
-
endogenic
the issue is that education lacks the criteria of good and bad
-
hyc
endogenic: it is always the issue
-
apotheon
As long as a centralized power structure controls education, that will continue to be a problem.
-
endogenic
says you hyc, but we're gonna decentralize power from you
-
hyc
fine with me
-
hyc
I never ask to be in charge of anything
-
endogenic
ok, message struck from record
-
apotheon
okay . . . moving on to other things
-
apotheon
PapuaHardyNet: . . . but yeah, I recommend Second Realm a fair bit.
-
apotheon
PapuaHardyNet: I usually recommend reading An Agorist Primer and Second Realm: Book On Strategy in that order, but if you're only ever going to read one of them read Second Realm.
-
apotheon
going for a walk now
-
hyc
Mochi101: considering how Trump has been gutting the USPS, I'd say on the whole, no
-
Mochi101
Gutting the USPS?
-
hyc
look at postmaster general deJoy
-
Mochi101
Come on hyc, you're a smart guy.
-
hyc
Trump appointed deJoy to PMG to dismantle the USPS
-
hyc
and deJoy has been doing that
-
Mochi101
because it's being used as a piggy bank
-
hyc
they've been trying to defund it so FedEx and UPS can pick over its bones
-
hyc
it's all BS
-
hyc
the USPS is one of the only institutions explicitly appointed in the US Constitution
-
hyc
because all citizens have a right to efficient delivery service
-
hyc
it should not be left to for-profit enterprises, who will neglect lower-profit service areas
-
Mochi101
The Postal Service has set-aside cash totals of more than $335 billion for its pensions and retiree healthcare, exceeding 83 percent of estimated future payouts. Its pension plans are nearly completely funded and its retiree healthcare liability is 50 percent funded โ much better than the rest of the federal government.
-
hyc
that pension fund is because of the stupid law requiring it to have 20 years of pension funding or whatnot
-
hyc
and at the end of the day - so what? people who devoted their lives to serving their fellow citizens deserve their pensions
-
Mochi101
I think it's good.
-
hyc
-
hyc
go back to those original laws, and enforce them, and we're good.
-
hyc
it's sad how every few generations keeps having to relearn the lessons their predecessors already knew from painful experience
-
Mochi101
How do you propose making computers then hyc ?
-
hyc
?
-
Mochi101
Without corporations.
-
hyc
nobody is saying without corporations
-
hyc
just without excessive corporate power
-
Mochi101
.define excessive
-
hyc
did you read that entire article I linked?
-
Mochi101
I'm about half way.
-
hyc
I'll wait for you to finish
-
Bill48105
that's what she said
-
Mochi101
hyc, the article blames giving corporations personhood back in the late 1800s
-
hyc
yes
-
Mochi101
So if that explains the USA, what happened to the rest of the world?
-
hyc
copied the US
-
hyc
most large corps today are multinational
-
Mochi101
yeah... today
-
hyc
Asia is still somewhat different. they don't have the massive executaive pay ratios in Japan etc
-
usernetinternet[
I think we can all agree that monero solves all of our probelms ๐๐๐๐
-
Mochi101
"The industrial age forced a nation of farmers to become wage earners"
-
Mochi101
So what do you want to go back to hyc?
-
hyc
the industrial age also forced people into uniform work schedules
-
hyc
most people don't need to commute to an office 9-5 5 days a week
-
hyc
but they're forced to
-
Mochi101
yes
-
hyc
so yeah I'd rip up a lot of corporate laws passed in the past 100+ years
-
Mochi101
hyc, with COVID this is now changing
-
hyc
in some places. some companies talk about "returning to the office"
-
Mochi101
The people that get to stay home seem to be the privileged class now.
-
Mochi101
Too dangerous for government workers to go to the office, but the slaves better be out there.
-
hyc
and there's now corporate greed behind that too - big corporate real estate owners need people to come back
-
hyc
I never understood that ... I remember when SGI started to have hard times, and sold its corporate buildings, and rented them back
-
hyc
can't believe that actually saved any money. whatever accountant convinced them to do that was probably paid by a competitor to torpedo the company
-
Mochi101
yeah
-
Mochi101
anyways hyc, these are complicated subjects and I need to start winding down for bed
-
Mochi101
We should converse more often.
-
Mochi101
:D
-
hyc
heh. have a good night
-
Mochi101
you too
-
-
charolastra
hyc: they city of Vienna leased their underground to an american invester and rented it back for dozens of years. the trick is that the american investero can play a trick with his taxes that way
-
apotheon
21:48 < usernetinternet[> I think we can all agree that monero solves all of our probelms
-
apotheon
definitely a big step in the correct direction
-
Serus
Hello
-
Serus
I see on the monero subreddit that somebody is talking about staking monero. Can monero be officially staked? Or is it only offered by third parties?
-
selsta
no it can not be staked
-
selsta
and I would stay away from "third parties"
-
selsta
most likely a scam
-
Serus
right
-
Serus
Yeah, I didn't really trust it, but I'm also not keeping up with monero news
-
apotheon
seems dangerous
-
Serus
Somebody in the thread was using the service, but he put in a very small amount that he's totally prepared to lose
-
usernetinternet[
Can u link the post?
-
charolastra
sounds fishy
-
apotheon
What do people here think of Kucoin and Bittrex?
-
thrmo_
people here hate bittrex and think Kucoin is whatever.
-
apotheon
What do they hate about Bittrex? Is that one of those places where they refuse to pay out your cryptocurrency until you KYC yourself?
-
selsta
didn't bittrex delist monero while refusing to say why
-
apotheon
hmm
-
apotheon
dunno
-
selsta
but they still have other privacy coins
-
apotheon
It looks (from a coindesk article in January) like it delisted Dash, Monero, and Zcash.
-
selsta
yep, they still have other privacy coins listed
-
apotheon
"For instance, the U.S. Secret Service has urged Congress to create ways to limit the use of privacy-focused cryptocurrencies." WTF? How do legislators create ways to limit their use? That's pretty much nonsensical.
-
apotheon
Are the others all things like privacy-oriented ETH tokens?
-
charolastra
they don't. that's just what they call their meme legislation
-
apotheon
At first glance, I'd guess that maybe the Bittrex delisting selected those cryptocurrencies because they're well-known for privacy features.
-
apotheon
charolastra: seems legit
-
apotheon
I'm guessing Kucoinis KYC/AML like all the other exchange sites that look like they had web designers on-staff.
-
apotheon
s/Kucoinis/Kucoin is/
-
melona
hello
-
melona
hyc i checked little more and found that solution is little bigger
-
melona
-
melona
jit_compiler_a64.cpp on xmrig is not identical on monero randomx
-
melona
i'm not sure what to remove from jit_compiler_a64.cpp for file to be compiled without errors for monero
-
apotheon
This line from a bitrates article is hilarious: "On Jan. 15, Bittrex will delist a number of privacy coins, including Monero (XMR), Dash (DASH), and Zcash (ZEC). It is not the first exchange to do so, raising many questions about whether privacy cryptocurrencies have a future."
-
apotheon
It definitely shows the target audience, if that's somehow considered indicative of a privacy cryptocurrency's "future".
-
apotheon
The whole point of a privacy cryptocurrency is to make value transactions private, rather than playing daytrader games in public.
-
apotheon
Delisting them seems like a great way to make them harder for regulators to track, too.
-
treepay[m]
Does anyone here actually believe Monero will be a widely used currency in the world?
-
apotheon
maybe
-
apotheon
One can already buy wild game jerky from Germany with it. I would already have ordered a bunch of the place shipped to where I live.
-
apotheon
s/of the place/if the place/
-
charolastra
if you can order heroin through mail, why not jerky?
-
endor00[m]
It definitely would have a shot, if people pulled their head out their arse and stopped fueling shitcoins
-
endor00[m]
...so probably not
-
apotheon
har
-
apotheon
The thing is, fuelling shitcoins shouldn't have any effect on the useful applications of Monero.
-
apotheon
Who gives a crap about performance on KYC exchanges? I care about being able to use Monero as currency.
-
apotheon
Monero just needs to keep abreast of privacy concerns and not get technically fuckered somehow, and it should do fine.
-
apotheon
The hard part will be finding the inroads to where it's accepted for trades.
-
endor00[m]
It's money, time, and effort wasted on useless crap that could have gone towards a better project
-
endor00[m]
That 66B$ market cap on Ripple didn't get there all by itself
-
endor00[m]
Dogecoin went from a pure meme to a pump and dump
-
nioc
but they just want to use their time to get $$$$ so it wouldn't necessarily have gone to montero
-
apotheon
I suspect that stuff will mostly just affect people who wouldn't want a privacy-oriented currency anyway.
-
apotheon
or what nioc said
-
nioc
$ is a byproduct of monello, not the reason for building it
-
nioc
it's like the "y not both" of crypto
-
endor00[m]
Of course, but imagine if all that dev effort had focused on improving existing things instead
-
endor00[m]
All those fancy wallets and UIs
-
apotheon
Imagine if the MobileCoin effort turned out to be a license-compatible project working on interesting privacy technologies so that both it and Monero could benefit from shared development work, instead of MobileCoin just being some janky excuse for Moxie to sell another piece of his soul to try to maintain significance in the private messaging space.
-
endor00[m]
Exactly
-
nioc
I have watched the effort put into monery slowly and steadily increase over time
-
apotheon
Imagine if USGOVCORP just left us the fuck alone and we didn't have to fight for the right to party . . . err, I mean, to have private transactions.
-
nioc
would it be nice / good to have more? always
-
apotheon
I don't think any of this means Monero is doomed, though.
-
apotheon
I think it's in a very good place right now, as long as the core devs don't get rounded up and shot.
-
apotheon
(or whatever)
-
apotheon
I wonder how many people would send how much Monero to a "save the core devs trying to escape political persecution" fund.