-
jonah_xd[m]
Welp this is where signal signs their death warrent
-
jonah_xd[m]
Kind of wonder how will snowden diehards would react
-
jonah_xd[m]
And elon musk
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<jonah_xd[m] "Welp this is where signal signs "> Yeah I kind of think so honestly
-
DrDouchebag[m]
I mean, it made me download element
-
DrDouchebag[m]
Now I'll look like a jackass to my friends I made download signal
-
jonah_xd[m]
<DrDouchebag[m] "Now I'll look like a jackass to "> I mean you are Dr. Douchebag after all
-
lord_fomo[m]
apotheon: that's the guy that i found nitter and teddit through 🥳
-
lord_fomo[m]
he's got some coolio gh repos
-
ieatglueinthegul
What does this all have to do with signal?
-
lord_fomo[m]
mobile coin is big bro op
-
lord_fomo[m]
😂
-
jonah_xd[m]
ieatglueinthegulag: signal integrated that cryptocoin into their app
-
jonah_xd[m]
Says alot about the politics inside their company
-
ieatglueinthegul
<jonah_xd[m] "ieatglueinthegulag: signal integ"> What even is the point?
-
jonah_xd[m]
That signals policies don't match what they advertise
-
lord_fomo[m]
there's some sketch shit going on there iirc
-
lord_fomo[m]
some 🚨
-
ieatglueinthegul
Why do they even need crypto in the first place, it's a fucking messaging protocol
-
lord_fomo[m]
cuz fb-coin failed
-
lord_fomo[m]
libre-coin
-
lord_fomo[m]
er wtv
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<lord_fomo[m] "there's some sketch shit going o"> It's definitely super sketchy
-
lord_fomo[m]
holdup
-
lord_fomo[m]
i gots da linkz
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
enuf fud?
-
chile09[m]
switch to Session not Signal lol
-
chile09[m]
or onionshare
-
ieatglueinthegul
<lord_fomo[m] "enuf fud?"> I'll need some more
-
ieatglueinthegul
I spent weeks converting people from whatsapp/telegram to signal a while ago
-
ieatglueinthegul
I'll need a lot of FUD to push them away from signal now
-
chile09[m]
just say snowden uses it
-
lord_fomo[m]
tell them something something "now take da pillz = matrix"
-
lord_fomo[m]
don't bother with irc
-
lord_fomo[m]
tinas hate acros
-
as2333
signal's 'servers' are on the amazon-NSA 'cloud'
-
chile09[m]
centralized apps are suspect
-
chile09[m]
it's still a MITM
-
chile09[m]
and there's still metadata
-
chile09[m]
even despite the encryption
-
as2333
but signal says they dont KEEP the metadata!
-
as2333
they just forward it to the NSA realtime
-
Quotes
NSA? Morono protects me.
-
chile09[m]
for how long don't they keep it?
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa__
Ive used signal for a few years
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa__
Honestly so annoying
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa__
That they did this
-
as2333
chile09[m], hehehe
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa__
I do a lot of IRL business and work through signal and even talk to my gf through it
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa__
Most people I interact with through signal aren't even into technology and getting them to switch to something else is going to be a PIA but I don't want to continue using it
-
as2333
well signal is marginally better than something like whasap but the bar is pretty low...
-
chile09[m]
was there some reason signal sucks all of a sudden
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa__
Its a shame as soon as a privacy centric app starts getting mainstream appeal they go and fuck it off
-
lord_fomo[m]
best part about nsa is most people who know about them have N-decoys for them
-
lord_fomo[m]
so they keep tabs on the fake version of everyone who matters
-
lord_fomo[m]
just burnin the gpus mining noise 😂
-
lord_fomo[m]
bishes
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<aaaaaaaaaaaa__ "Most people I interact with thro"> Ugh I kind of agree. Maybe more people will look into signal now because of this sketch shit to see if it's actually a psyops
-
lord_fomo[m]
sig protocol i think is fine
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's been audited pretty well
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<lord_fomo[m] "
foxbusiness.com/tech"> This is scary but I'll need more info on how they actually did it. Could just be dumb criminals or something
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's likely phone storage
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa__
I believe they were unlocking the phone and they likely did not have a pin set to access signal
-
lord_fomo[m]
some magic there
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa__
So it was as simple as opening the app
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<aaaaaaaaaaaa__ "I believe they were unlocking th"> If that's the case that's not really a flaw
-
lord_fomo[m]
could be yeah
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<lord_fomo[m] "
stillnessinthestorm.com"> Sketch maybe but not really evidence
-
lord_fomo[m]
yah
-
lord_fomo[m]
that one's just nutter fud
-
DrDouchebag[m]
But I'm def skeptical of signal now. But I'm not going to bother getting people to switch when I just got them to switch to signal until more info comes out
-
DrDouchebag[m]
But yeah, mobilecoin was such a stupid decision. This isn't 2015. You can't just do PnDs anymore without it backfiring
-
as2333
PnDs?
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa__
I think it should be a requirement to use disappearing messages on signal anyways lol
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa__
Probably dumb criminals if they're talking about selling guns and murder for hire and not using disappearing messages
-
ieatglueinthegul
I guess everyone just wants to get on the shitcoin train and make some quick bucks off of illiterate boomers
-
lord_fomo[m]
lmao
-
lord_fomo[m]
the same boomers CBs are saving with the fiat pamp
-
ieatglueinthegul
Sucks to be a boomer I guess
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<as2333 "PnDs?"> Pump & Dumps
-
as2333
DrDouchebag[m], ahhh of course. Sorry, was too dumb to figure it out.
-
Bill48105
that a bridge in a bridge? lol
-
chile09[m]
why isn't blockchain sync traffic encrypted/
-
chile09[m]
?
-
lord_fomo[m]
<ieatglueinthegul "Sucks to be a boomer I guess"> wat
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's the rest of us that gets cucked
-
as2333
chile09[m], maybe because it's public data anyway? maybe a 'feature' inherited from bitcoin? just guessing - I don't know the actual reason.
-
entry1
Most likely this was done because Brian Acton (unbeknownst to most people) loaned Signal $50 million dollars interest free. People act like this app was made from a donation. He probably wants to get his money back quicker by shilling this shitcoin on his fucking app. They can add shitcoin support, but can't make it sign up without a phone number or have username support. Absolutely retarded
-
entry1
There is no such thing as an ultra rich person giving money away no strings attached. They are 99% greedy power hungry dicks who thinks everyone else is stupid. I love the app and its a shame it is coming to this
-
as2333
yeah requiring a phone number was a red flag since day one
-
louipc
not really. it started out as a way to encrypt sms
-
louipc
naturally people would be using phone numbers
-
entry1
<louipc "not really. it started out as a "> Agreed. Now there is zero excuse for them to not implement username support or non-phone sign up though and people need to stop giving them the benefit of the doubt as to why they haven't implemented it.
-
entry1
I'm not really not shit talking Signal because I use them daily, but they are pissing off a lot of people doing this.
-
entry1
* I'm really not shit talking Signal because I use them daily, but they are pissing off a lot of people doing this.
-
louipc
don't get mad. get busy
-
louipc
old server source is released. client code is released. theres already some forks with new features too
-
louipc
no excuses
-
entry1
I understand that. Can we just come to the consensus that Signal may be not implementing "anonymous" sign up to stay within regulatory reach within the US? I just don't know why they wouldn't do it themselves for any other reason
-
louipc
that question was never answered on a forum/faq/ama or whatever?
-
entry1
Unsure if a company would be truthful answering a question like that. The company makes it obvious that they are cool with people forking it, but it is alarming to see them not implement features that have been asked for years and now decide to promote a shitcoin for payments
-
entry1
I'll kill the conversation though as I agree, I love the idea of new forks coming out and people branching off of relying on them. You make great points and my claims are purely speculatory, even if they're common sense to some degree
-
boogerlad
if a node receives a transaction that has the same key image, it sets "double_spend_seen = true" right? If so, does it broadcast that to the rest of the network to warn other nodes?
-
as2333
the phone requirement is only there for surveillance/spying purposes. Like I said, a red flaf, just like the 3 millions morlonpoke got from the pentagon.
-
as2333
flag*
-
as2333
>it started out as a way to encrypt sms
-
as2333
wrong
-
louipc
that may be true now
-
louipc
wrong?
-
as2333
"Signal is the successor of the RedPhone encrypted voice calling app and the TextSecure encrypted texting program."
-
msaqvhsxtikq
FUK has bееn intеnsеly hostilе to Monеro for ovеr 4 yеars. Making minеrs for Monеro, making a pool for Monеro, making codе that Monеro copiеd, not using bugs to stеal millions from еxchangеs. Wow. Such grеat hostility.
-
louipc
as2333: u can read?
-
as2333
also the protocol is based on the otr protocol I think, so not a sms based thing but an internet chat protocol
-
as2333
there was never a need to require phone numbers
-
apotheon
as2333: Signal isn't OTR, and TextSecure used SMS for transport in the early days.
-
apotheon
I was an early adopter, before RedPhone even existed.
-
apotheon
as2333: Signal changed things, so that it no longer used SMS, but someone forked an early version for people who still wanted TextSecure-style encrypted SMS and called it Silence, so you can still use roughly the original TextSecure (under a different name) if you like.
-
as2333
ok, textsecure was for sms but signal isn't
-
as2333
so my point remains
-
as2333
signal requires a phone number for surveillance purposes
-
as2333
the 'historical' explanation fails
-
apotheon
Well . . . the "historical" excuse is probably still used, and there's also probably some kind of justification about knowing who's on the other end of the conversation.
-
apotheon
. . . but I don't find those very comforting at all.
-
apotheon
I'm skeptical of Moxie's involvement in pretty much anything these days.
-
apotheon
I've also always been less than comfortable with the metadata situation with centralized services for Signal.
-
apotheon
The only thing that kept me using Signal for *anything* was that it was the best thing available (technically) that was actually used by enough people for me to bother, other than the extremely practical-paranoid types. Almost-normal people use Signal, and it beats the shit out of Telegram and WhatsApp on the technical issues.
-
as2333
telegram and whatsap are allegedly 'end to end' encrypted too?
-
apotheon
They're different implementations of the Signal protocol.
-
as2333
ah yes
-
as2333
so I don't see much difference then? signal's server are on the amazon 'cloud'
-
as2333
servers*
-
apotheon
WhatsApp has an implementation that handles some key negotiation stuff in a way that's supposedly more convenient for users, but is also susceptible to a MITM attack when someone's key changes. I guess it's supposed to be okay because (theoretically) only insiders are able to exploit that.
-
apotheon
That's a big difference; it's far worse than Signal in that regard.
-
apotheon
Moxie, though, defended Facebook's decisions about that, saying it was a reasonable trade-off for user experience.
-
phone[m]
<as2333 "so I don't see much difference t"> there was some logic to this: `Signal chose to utilize AWS because Amazon AWS already hosts more than half of all smartphone backends, making it difficult to block without breaking most of the Internet and difficult to tell apart from other traffic.`
-
apotheon
It came up when someone announced finding a back door in WhatsApp. Among others, Moxie said it isn't a back door -- which is technically correct. It's not a back door. It's a vulnerability that allows Facebook to manufacture back doors as needed.
-
diverter[m]
Telegram uses their own MTProto (iirc) crypto and is not default E2EE. WhatsApp backups are unencrypted iirc, and stored on their servers so E2EE doesn't matter much if someone you talk to uses their backup. Unless they fixed that, but afaik they didn't. Signal doesn't have those same issues.
-
diverter[m]
Technically speaking, Signal is just superior imo. May not _stay_ that way, but like Sealed Sender is a very underrated feature for example.
-
as2333
apotheon, ah ok, so whatsap is sabotaged.
-
apotheon
Telegram has its own problems. I don't recall the technical details as clearly as those of WhatsApp, but I'd place it somewhere between Signal and WhatsApp for how much I would(n't) trust it.
-
diverter[m]
Moxie seems to keep making terrible decisions though, so who knows where it ends up tbqh
-
apotheon
Oh, about the E2EE for Telegram, they evidently (unless I misremember) fixed that for one-on-one communication, but it's still not default for group chats.
-
as2333
phone[m], is that the official explanation from signal? I don't know what 'smarphone backend' means anyway.
-
as2333
also it's not clear who's going to block what?
-
apotheon
Yeah, I think Moxie sold his soul a long time ago. I suspect his defense of WhatsApp was probably related to the fact that Facebook is the primary source of funding for the Signal non-profit foundation, of which Moxie is high muckety-muck.
-
diverter[m]
Right, afaict there's nothing necessarily wrong with MTProto, but it is only for Secret Chats and not available in group chats so 🤷♂️
-
apotheon
as2333: What diverter[m] meant about blocking things is that it's not reasonable for users to block AWS, or for Signal to bother routing around it, because AWS is already used for a bunch of smartphone related services that people supposedly can't avoid.
-
apotheon
diverter[m]: . . . or correct me if I'm mistaken in that explanation of what you meant.
-
phone[m]
<apotheon "Yeah, I think Moxie sold his sou"> facebook is the funding source for their non-profit?
-
apotheon
diverter[m]: I think where it ends up is that Moxie is selling another piece of his soul so that Whisper Systems gets a shit-ton of MobileCoin and he can be a very wealthy man (unless MobileCoin just crashes and burns, as it should).
-
apotheon
(but probably won't)
-
diverter[m]
Oh no I agree with that, I mean the bigger the crowd the better to me. AWS makes sense in that regard, as long as the encryption is proper, which by all accounts it is
-
apotheon
phone[m]: Last I checked, I'm pretty sure it was the biggest source, yeah.
-
phone[m]
-
apotheon
phone[m]: The Signal non-profit is supposed to be for care and maintenance of Signal protocol stuff, which is used by WhatsApp, and now Facebook is doing some kind of Signal protocol integration with Facebook Messenger too, I believe.
-
as2333
the point is that amazon-NSA is the attacker - the bigger the 'crowd' the more fucked people are.
-
as2333
it's not about encryption but 'metadata'
-
phone[m]
<as2333 "the point is that amazon-NSA is "> how do you solve it? and how do you get people to adopt it?
-
diverter[m]
But iirc there was an issue a few months back where the Iranian(?) govt was able to sniff out Signal packets and block traffic, but I think they patched that
-
as2333
phone[m], you don't use amazon-NSA for your servers at least. Frankly that's a 'no brainer'
-
as2333
that's actually another thing that gives signal game away
-
diverter[m]
Well I mean, there is empirical proof of what Signal handed over in court once, idk how much stock you put in that but it isn't like they had a shitload of data they turned over
-
phone[m]
<as2333 "phone, you don't use amazon-NSA "> where else do you host hyper-scalar infrastructure?
-
phone[m]
<diverter[m] "Well I mean, there is empirical "> you can do a foia request
-
as2333
the signal fucktards should take care about their own nazi goverment instead of messing with iran
-
phone[m]
<phone[m] "where else do you host hyper-sca"> doubt you're going to put hyperscalar on hetzner (who will hand over a disk if coerced).
-
as2333
take care of*
-
as2333
it's obvious that the biggest problems are caused by the US govt, not by the iranian government.
-
diverter[m]
<phone[m] "you can do a foia request "> Its already out there, that's what I'm saying. Date and time of account creation, phone number, and date and time of last connection to the server. That's what they handed over.
-
phone[m]
<diverter[m] "Its already out there, that's wh"> big question i would have is that enough to keep someone up at night?
-
diverter[m]
🤷♂️
-
phone[m]
i'm not losing sleep, but that's just me.
-
phone[m]
<as2333 "it's obvious that the biggest pr"> all governments are problematic. iran is far from a poster child for honour
-
as2333
phone[m], lawl
-
as2333
"Signal queues end-to-end encrypted messages on its servers for delivery to devices that are temporarily offline"
-
as2333
"Additional technical information is stored on our servers, including randomly generated authentication tokens, keys, push tokens, and other material that is necessary to establish calls and transmit messages"
-
diverter[m]
Imo, Signal is the best to use if you are a US citizen right now, or a fork like Molly. If outside the US, I'm personally a fan of Threema.
-
diverter[m]
If only a few nerds use your shit, and everyone else uses insecure SMS because your messaging app can't be an SMS replacement for US comms, then who gives a fuck how secure it is. Signal gives the best onboarding chance for US normies in my experience, and it's not even close.
-
-
apotheon
So, it turns out the president of the Signal Foundation is the WhatsApp guy who literally sold out to Facebook. That's nice.
-
apotheon
I'd forgotten that.
-
phone[m]
<as2333 "phone, lawl"> i don't work there dude, just went through their interview process and use their service. if you like you can email moxie. i'm sure if he's not sailing on a boat in the black sea you both can have a nice chat :-)
-
apotheon
diverter[m]: I think Session and Briar both look better, technically, though I haven't gotten in-depth on either of them. Their basic design philosophies are better, though, in that they avoid the centralization and identification issues of Signal.
-
apotheon
diverter[m]: That's for US as well as elsewhere.
-
apotheon
I used to be okay with Signal as a way to deal with people who aren't as insistent as me on using stuff that doesn't smell bad, but the way things are going with this MobileCoin fiasco I'm inclined to back away quickly.
-
apotheon
I treated Signal as basically barely better than cleartext SMS, but now I'd rather see if I can get people to move off Signal to something better, and seriously consider not talking to them about anything via Signal any longer no matter what they say.
-
as2333
"In June 2016, Marlinspike told The Intercept that "the closest piece of information to metadata that the Signal server stores... bla bla
-
apotheon
Convincing people to use Signal is, evidently, rapidly turning into a way to accidentally getting people to buy into a scamcoin.
-
apotheon
s/getting/get/
-
as2333
"Signal's developers have asserted that their servers do not keep logs about who called whom and when"
-
somethingUniqueR
.val 0.006880
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: Help: .val <amount> coin <coin2> - Ticker prices for common coins & fiats. No value results in market details
-
apotheon
do not "keep"
-
apotheon
sure
-
as2333
apotheon, exactly
-
lord_fomo[m]
woa signal shitstorm engage
-
lord_fomo[m]
😂
-
apotheon
They collect logs, because their service wouldn't really be maintainable otherwise, but they don't keep it.
-
diverter[m]
-
somethingUniqueR
.val 0.006880 xmr
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: ≈$1.7638 • ≈ value of: 0.00688 XMR • Source: cmc/ccc/altm
-
-
somethingUniqueR
.balance
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: • Your balance is: 0.0001258 XMR (≈0.03 USD)
-
lord_fomo[m]
<entry1 "Most likely this was done becaus"> woaaa
-
as2333
diverter[m], ?
-
diverter[m]
Take it how you want to, but that's how it turned out then.
-
lord_fomo[m]
that legit entry1 or you just rantin
-
lord_fomo[m]
if so that's mega weak sauces
-
as2333
diverter[m], see
signal.org/legal
-
apotheon
Is entry1 someone on Matrix who isn't showing up in IRC?
-
apotheon
. . . or are these responses to messages from a while back?
-
diverter[m]
<as2333 "diverter, ?"> Lol I have bad reception apparently, that was supposed to send when the pic did lol
-
as2333
diverter[m], I mean, the signal post from 2016 is contradicted by their current 'legal' page.
-
as2333
diverter[m], it's obvious that they know who talks to who and when. And there's no reason to belive that they DON"T 'share' this info with the US govt.
-
apotheon
I suspect that Signal may soon collect more than it did historically, if it doesn't already. That's gotta be too tempting a benefit for the company to resist for long.
-
apotheon
There's almost certainly going to be more need for some metadata to deal with the integrated MobileCoin wallet, too.
-
apotheon
I doubt it's quite as nefarious in intent as as2333 makes it seem, but that doesn't mean things aren't getting worse.
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
to lighten da mood
-
lord_fomo[m]
if we're already in a world where peeps using signal are tinas
-
lord_fomo[m]
we making progress
-
louipc
yea i don't believe signal's was founded on malicious intent
-
lord_fomo[m]
so cheer tf up
-
nioc
apotheon: and if you don't use mobile coin
-
nioc
?
-
louipc
but basically they all end up that way
-
as2333
apotheon, I regard the author as completely untrustworthy. His connection with twitter is yet another big red flag.
-
apotheon
louipc: nice
-
apotheon
oh
-
apotheon
not louipc
-
apotheon
lord_fomo[m]:
-
diverter[m]
Idk what to say man don't use it I guess. Like I said, if you are in the US I guess you just gotta cut off everyone that isn't willing to install Briar, idk lol. It isn't like if I was gonna share truly sensitive data that I would encrypt myself first, I wouldn't trust any 3rd party service to so that for me. I just think all this is blown up now because he did another stupid and admittedly slimy looking thing, but
-
diverter[m]
that thing doesn't appear to me to have any real impact on the technical capabilities of the Signal protocol. When the terries start dropping and it comes out Signal gave em up, everyone can just say told ya I guess. Meantime I'm on Signal and Threema, holla at me lol
-
lord_fomo[m]
or loupic
-
louipc
whats a tina
-
lord_fomo[m]
u'll learn
-
apotheon
nioc: I'm sure the data would still be collected even if you don't use MobileCoin. There's no benefit in writing the application so it selectively lets you off the hook.
-
louipc
remember google "don't be evil". RIP
-
apotheon
That'd be more work than just having it do the same thing to everyone.
-
as2333
"I trust Signal because it�s well built, but more importantly, because of how it�s built: open source, peer reviewed, and funded entirely by grants and donations. A refreshing model for how critical services should be built.""
-
nioc
I just chatted with a person on the other side of the world living in an authoritarian country using signal, I got them to switch from whatsapp not long ago
-
apotheon
diverter[m]: I don't cut off everyone who doesn't use briar. I just don't know people I can't contact in other ways who matter enough to bother keeping them on Signal.
-
as2333
that comes from the highest criminal of the twatter mafia
-
lord_fomo[m]
louipc: more like "normie" from comp/quant/retail trader land
-
as2333
aka dorsey
-
lord_fomo[m]
but thatcherified
-
apotheon
nioc: Signal is better than WhatsApp.
-
apotheon
(as far as I know)
-
as2333
twatter, an NSA cesspool that censors people left and right. Dorsey should nuke his own shitty website if he want decent 'critical services'.
-
diverter[m]
Myself, I'm up to like 91% of all text are E2EE now on my normie phone, so to me I'll take that all day.
-
louipc
diverter[m]: u gonna sklounst dem terries
-
lord_fomo[m]
all i member from google is: "uses way more ram then any other 'web-app' and we change the UX depending on your network connection"
-
lord_fomo[m]
real good design in their stuff
-
apotheon
98% of my text messaging is on better-secured systems than Signal, these days, anyway.
-
apotheon
Signal is probably about 1%.
-
diverter[m]
<louipc "diverter: u gonna sklounst dem t"> 🤣🤣🤣 Somebody got it 😂😂😂
-
apotheon
The last 1% is cleartext SMS.
-
apotheon
(there's a rounding error's worth of other smartphone messaging application stuff)
-
louipc
if the feds want you they got you
-
apotheon
mostly
-
louipc
forget about hiding
-
apotheon
The key is mostly to avoid leaving tracks that make the feds decide they want you.
-
as2333
anyway, it's 'refreshing' to see the same old excuses, bullshit about 'repressive regimes' and the like.
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
If you're doing enough to attract attention from the FBI you're probably doing enough where encryption isn't going to hide everything you're doing
-
louipc
apotheon: they got you anyway
-
louipc
but its nice/fun to at least try
-
apotheon
louipc: I don't think you get my point.
-
apotheon
The feds don't have me in their hands right now. If they decided I was a tasty target, it'd be pretty damned difficult to avoid getting gotten, though.
-
louipc
and the trying is important to the sluggish advancement of civil liberties
-
apotheon
. . . which is why it's beneficial to avoid leaving the kinda tracks that make them want you.
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
If you're dealing in a space where you're worried about feds at least don't be the low hanging fruit
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Notice all the DNM vendors getting caught all make dumb ass mistakes
-
louipc
tru
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Low hanging fruit
-
as2333
are you using a hard to trace cryptocurrency whose name starts with M? Oops, you're more than likely to be 'attracting attention'
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Not really
-
louipc
not really
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Feds are so big if you're small time you're likely to fly under the radar
-
apotheon
It takes a little more than being in an IRC channel and taking donations for a nonprofit association.
-
louipc
if youre using it to buy nerfballs youre fine
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
That too
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
If you're just interested in Monero and not doing anything illegal I don't think the feds really care
-
as2333
lawl
-
as2333
the way people lie to themselves
-
apotheon
aaaaaaaaaaaa: unless you're a good connection to get to the next person
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Lol you think you have an FBI file for hanging out in the Monero IRC
-
Quotes
FBI? Morono protects me.
-
apotheon
as2333: I'm not sure what you think is happening here. Do you expect that everyone in this channel is about to get snatched up and taken away?
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
FBI rarely even looks into crimes (unrelated to drugs) if its not over 1m
-
lord_fomo[m]
<apotheon ". . . which is why it's benefici"> this is why slang
-
as2333
apotheon, what's happening here is that you have the typical 'people' pretending they don't live in a surveillance state and saying 'I obey my masters, they won't get me".
-
lord_fomo[m]
and non-serious trolling only
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Well im talking specifically about getting arrested
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Surveillance lol yeah no shit
-
apotheon
as2333: I'm not sure they're all obeying the masters.
-
louipc
as2333: i dont think anyone said anything to that effect
-
as2333
"If you're just interested in Monero and not doing anything illegal"
-
apotheon
Everyone's getting swept up in mass surveillance dragnets, of course.
-
as2333
'not doing anything illegal'
-
lord_fomo[m]
get the masks on them
-
apotheon
The question is whether you stand out enough for feds to hammer you flat.
-
lord_fomo[m]
trail the bots with the masks on them
-
lord_fomo[m]
* train the bots with the masks on them
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Yeah, if you're not doing anything illegal then nobody is going to spend the resources to investigate you
-
louipc
as2333: nobody said nerfball buyers and sellers are not being surveilled
-
apotheon
as2333: Sometimes people say imprecise things. I'm not sure that wasn't just imprecise.
-
louipc
just that they are not on the high priority list of people to be vanned
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Is your data being tracked, stored, and accessed at will? Absolutely
-
apotheon
Literally speaking, we're all doing something illegal pretty much all the time. There are so many laws out there it's effectively possible to not break the law every day.
-
nioc
look at all the people interested in Monero getting arrested
-
apotheon
. . . but then, maybe someone really thinks "I'm not doing anything illegal."
-
apotheon
I don't know what's actually inside people's heads when they say that. I tend to suspect that people who are aware enough to have heard of Monero are more likely to know they aren't *literally* 100% law-abiding people.
-
louipc
yea they shoulda locked up fluffy at least
-
nioc
every generation of my family has been on a list since coming to the usa, that's as far as it went
-
apotheon
The biggest crimes fluffypony ever committed were probably crimes of taste.
-
lord_fomo[m]
lmao
-
apotheon
fluffypony: I kid! You're great.
-
louipc
he tasted too many wines?
-
nioc
so many
-
apotheon
maybe
-
apotheon
whines
-
apotheon
no, that's not right
-
Bill48105
poor taste: guilty as charged lol
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
So what's the conclusion here
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Feds are waiting to arrest all of us
-
apotheon
The biggest crime fluffypony ever committed might be using Google's services framework in the MyMonero Android application.
-
as2333
-
apotheon
. . . unless that wasn't fluffypony.
-
louipc
aaaaaaaaaaaa: yea but they have limited resources
-
apotheon
The world keeps manufacturing lawbreakers faster than the feds can get down the list to low-value targets like me.
-
louipc
the world?
-
apotheon
the world
-
apotheon
as in: people being born
-
louipc
the feds keep manufacturing criminals with increased number of ridiculous laws and regulations
-
as2333
apotheon, that's why everything is getting automated.
-
apotheon
That's not the feds. That's legislators.
-
Mumuks[m]
apotheon: that's not the point really. You are right that the feds do not care about you. Until they do for some unrelated reason, then they go to their achieves and blackmail you with whatever little thing they can
-
louipc
samediff
-
Mumuks[m]
Thats how this works
-
apotheon
as2333: Yeah, we'll have to burn that bridge when we come to it.
-
apotheon
Mumuks[m]: indeed
-
lord_fomo[m]
wanna hear something stupid
-
apotheon
Mumuks[m]: . . . but there are things one can't change.
-
lord_fomo[m]
the wef funds "the commons project"
-
lord_fomo[m]
TCP
-
lord_fomo[m]
wat idiots
-
apotheon
Mumuks[m]: . . . and the likelihood of being that person while being a low-value target is at least very low, so I don't have to commit suicide to try to avoid it.
-
Mumuks[m]
apotheon: sure, but there is a lot of things people could change, they are just lazy about it
-
Mumuks[m]
And I dont mean politically, I mean in the day to day
-
louipc
anyway. just get busy
-
apotheon
Mumuks[m]: Give me examples.
-
Mumuks[m]
Stop using cloud services f.e.
-
apotheon
(so I know what you mean)
-
apotheon
Yeah, I cut back on that significantly.
-
Mumuks[m]
Stop using centralized social media
-
apotheon
I mean . . . all our messages are on Freenode, so there's that.
-
louipc
stop consuming mainstream media
-
Mumuks[m]
<apotheon "I mean . . . all our messages ar"> Stop being a pleb
-
apotheon
I'm pretty atypical in some very low-profile ways, so I'm safer than most that way.
-
lord_fomo[m]
and start using 🧶
-
lord_fomo[m]
like nitter
-
louipc
nitter is just twitter
-
Mumuks[m]
Try to use cash or monero mainly
-
lord_fomo[m]
ur mum is just hawt
-
louipc
really should divorce from twitter entirely
-
Mumuks[m]
Twatter is stupid
-
apotheon
Mumuks[m]: If you have a good list of specific changes to make, let me know, but so far you're talking about stuff I already, or already-mostly do.
-
lord_fomo[m]
just twatsin
-
Mumuks[m]
apotheon: good for you then
-
apotheon
s/mostly/mostly,/
-
Mumuks[m]
Hopefully more people will follow, because we need numbers
-
apotheon
yeah
-
lord_fomo[m]
they will
-
lord_fomo[m]
just stop being so serious
-
louipc
it requires a huge education and culture fit
-
lord_fomo[m]
and show them the way to being cooler then they are
-
lord_fomo[m]
they all want freedom
-
lord_fomo[m]
just show them
-
louipc
unfortunately most govt have the keys to education
-
apotheon
It's easier to disappear into a crowd when the crowd is huge. That's a basic principle behind how Monero protects privacy, as I understand it, anyway.
-
louipc
*culture change
-
apotheon
Mumuks[m]: Are you familiar with agorism and second realm strategy?
-
apotheon
Culture can be changed, but it requires changing minds, which (to have much chance of success doing it intentionally) requires changing behavior so people will self-justify by changing their conscious beliefs.
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Im just happy I got a laptop with enough hd space to sync my own node and use the cli
-
apotheon
Changing behavior mostly requires giving people convenience to follow -- basically just playing into their economic values, whether they realize they have them or not.
-
as2333
culture is the key
-
lord_fomo[m]
apotheon: not sure if y'all noticed but the last 3 months retail traders been taking on wall street
-
lord_fomo[m]
there's definitely a culture change under way
-
lord_fomo[m]
pump the foss
-
apotheon
. . . so, to change the world, start by offering goods and services (for money, for free, for whatever) that will alter people's behavior so that they have to change their beliefs to self-justify that behavior.
-
Mumuks[m]
<apotheon "Mumuks: Are you familiar with ag"> Yes
-
entry1
<louipc "diverter: u gonna sklounst dem t"> 😂😂😂 gonna rewatch that now, that one had me dying. lord_fomo I was ranting earlier, but yes. Signal was given a $50 million loan (interest free) by Brian Acton (as of 2018, it is $105 million) to be able to make it a non-profit. It is to be paid back by 2068. It is unsecured so he doesn't own anything, but it was not a donation by any stretch. Again I'm not trying to slande
-
entry1
Brian or Signal, but just bring light to why they don't allow username sign ups and mandatory require you give up your phone number. They are a great company, but the Mobile Coin crap when no one was asking for it is a bit odd. Moxie was a paid advisor to Mobile Coin.... Even though Moxie told Wired he doesn't own any Mobile Coin, it makes it very difficult to say he doesn't have a financial interest in the coin increasing in
-
entry1
value, or one of his buddies has a shit ton of it.
-
apotheon
Mumuks[m]: Cool, then. Have you read An Agorist Primer and Second Realm: Book On Strategy?
-
apotheon
I pretty much recommend *everybody* read them both, in that order. Overall, I think Second Realm is more important than Agorist Primer, but they're both short, and Agorist Primer is great prep for Second Realm.
-
lord_fomo[m]
entry1: yah it's the same old charly shit
-
lord_fomo[m]
maybe moxie is tainted now too
-
apotheon
(and mostly ignore what Second Realm says about agorism; I think of Second Realm as a refinement of agorism rather than distinct from it)
-
lord_fomo[m]
that's too bad if so
-
Mumuks[m]
<apotheon "Mumuks: Cool, then. Have you re"> I read the original agorist manifesto and other stuff back then. I do not think I've read these ones, but I agree with what you are saying about convenience and self justification
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
The guy who owns mobile coin or the company behind it said it was to make money for the signal foundation
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
He said it today in an AMA
-
apotheon
entry1: Moxie may not own any MobileCoin, but his company got a shit ton of it, apparently, and that means his equity in the company is worth more.
-
louipc
entry1: you sounding kinda froggy
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
-
entry1
Yep, who knows. They are extremely smart individuals, but they underestimate how dumb they think evedhond else is.
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
"1) I started MobileCoin to fund Signal. That’s it."
-
entry1
* Yep, who knows. They are extremely smart individuals, but they underestimate how dumb they think everyone else is.
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
So obviously the signal foundation or someone involved owns a significant amount of mobile coin
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Also this is hilarious:
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
"2) MobileCoin Inc. intends to maintain an extreme minority of the coins once the dust settles."
-
louipc
they shoulda just invested in dogecoin problemsolved
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
"Once we pump it up and dump it we plan to not buy back in"
-
apotheon
aaaaaaaaaaaa: yep, that seems to be the reasonable interpretation
-
apotheon
I should buy fifty bucks of every brand new cryptoshitcoin when it's worth a penny, then sit on it for a year and sell it.
-
apotheon
I'll probably break even at least.
-
lord_fomo[m]
ya'll missing this viagram moment
-
entry1
<louipc "entry1: you sounding kinda frogg"> That's the combat seat Jonathon Livingston Seigel
-
lord_fomo[m]
* ya'll missing this viagra moment
-
apotheon
The gravy train along those lines probably won't last long, though, because it's hard to believe the hype machine won't go slightly negative overall within a decade.
-
lord_fomo[m]
apotheon: buy turtle coin
-
apotheon
Is that real?
-
lord_fomo[m]
bruh
-
lord_fomo[m]
it credits old man xmr
-
lord_fomo[m]
speaking of which
-
lord_fomo[m]
someone got it up this evening
-
lord_fomo[m]
those turtles guis are hillarious
-
lord_fomo[m]
all they do is shit talk
-
lord_fomo[m]
#turtle-traders:matrix.org
-
as2333
so they have mobilecoin-v for voice-calls, mobilecoin-t for text messages. mobilecoin-p for pictures...from a to z and more.
-
Mumuks[m]
apotheon: I've downloaded the two books
-
as2333
they should also issue different coins for different phone models and different case color
-
apotheon
Mumuks[m]: cool
-
-
lord_fomo[m]
viagra workin
-
lord_fomo[m]
👴 xmr getting it up tonitez
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
I want to buy more xmr
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Like a lot more
-
lord_fomo[m]
the fomo is real
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Ok im getting $1500 more
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
I bought $1200 yesterday
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
I want to just convert all my fiat to xmr
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
But I have bills and shit
-
Bill48105
buy them all eh
-
phone[m]
<apotheon "I pretty much recommend *everybo"> also check out some of the work by smuggler and braun. m8s of mine, have a small but good community.
anarplex.net
-
louipc
Bill48105: are u for sale
-
binaryFate
<phone[m]> <apotheon "I pretty much recommend *everybo"> also check out some of the work by smuggler and braun. m8s of mine, have a small but good community.
anarplex.net <-- only btc donations? sigh
-
PapuaHardyNet
The more things change, the more they stay the same
-
phone[m]
<binaryFate "<phone[m]> <apotheon "I pretty m"> the reading is interesting. their site hasn't been updated recently. smuggler's main site does accept monero
opaque.link
-
apotheon
phone[m]: Yeah, Smuggler's awesome. Give him Monero.
-
PapuaHardyNet
phone[m]: what's their book's name?
-
apotheon
Second Realm: Book On Strategy
-
phone[m]
-
apotheon
phone[m]: I'm quite familiar with the site, though I'm not a fan of web forum stuff, so I tend to stick to IRC.
-
apotheon
phone[m]: Frank seems cool too, but I haven't talked with him as much.
-
PapuaHardyNet
Oh I see, I thought they wrote something other than the two books reced by apotheon
-
apotheon
An Agorist Primer was written by SEK3, not them.
-
phone[m]
<apotheon "phone: I'm quite familiar with t"> i wasn't a fan of forums myself. but the irc can be interesting.
-
apotheon
SEK3 being deceased now, so not easy to have a conversation with him . . .
-
PapuaHardyNet
yes, I found out about that through libgen
-
apotheon
phone[m]: If you're in the channel, you should check the list of people in there. You might see a name you recognize from here.
-
phone[m]
indeed.
-
apotheon
(and feel free to say hi)
-
phone[m]
<apotheon "SEK3 being deceased now, so not "> would have been a good conversation. he passed way too young
-
PapuaHardyNet
btw, Stephen Diehl, the OP of the article posted on hackernews, is very bearish on crypto
-
PapuaHardyNet
My current opinion is that his far left leanings bias him to not value the benefits of cryptocurrency, and overstate its problems.
-
PapuaHardyNet
Does anyone else have a better understanding about him?
-
apotheon
Well . . . I'm off for a bit. Ta.
-
louipc
off your rocker
-
phone[m]
off to get investigate the meaning of life and getting monerod to behave properly behind traefik.
-
phone[m]
* off to get investigate the meaning of life and getting monerod container to behave properly behind traefik.
-
phone[m]
* off to investigate the meaning of life and getting monerod container to behave properly behind traefik.
-
Mumuks[m]
<PapuaHardyNet "btw, Stephen Diehl, the OP of th"> What article?
-
PapuaHardyNet
-
PapuaHardyNet
this article is what this link (
news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26726246) discusses, which started the discussion about mobilecoin, crypto, and Moxie
-
gangster_hamster
hi
-
Bill48105
wut up gangster gerbil
-
Bill48105
too late
-
PapuaHardyNet
tfw you say hi on #monero and no one answers in under a minute :(
-
hmmp
.tip PapuaHardyNet 0.0001
-
Wallet
hmmp tipped 0.0001 XMR (≈$0.03) to PapuaHardyNet [f38cd55b]
-
needmoney90
Hi
-
afvnqsbexwb
Howard Chu is a high IQ scholar, he has more Google images with a violin than Sting with a guitar, he singlehandely saved NASA from doom. Why can't the saviour of NASA save Monero?
-
Bill48105
actual talking in otc today!
-
raas[m]
Hey sistas! We have a bridge from matrix to telegram in the spanish monero community and get some spam in the matrix side from time to time (nothing too annoying). I could look a bit but im sure our big brothers in the english chat can share some good info on how to get rid of it.
-
raas[m]
The spam is telegram messages that the bot erase only in the telegram side
-
endor00[m]
I have the same issue... for now I delete and ban manually
-
endor00[m]
The "Element Android" room has a bot called "Abuse Management" which will cleanup/ban whoever they point it to, but it's still manual
-
swrangsar
tried compiling xmrig on openbsd got this error related to virtual memory:
pastebin.com/wiEH70x7
-
swrangsar
for mining monero i mean
-
raas[m]
endor00: ok, thanks, yeah i do it manually and its not a problem
-
swrangsar
could not compile xmrig (monero mining software) on openbsd. the error :
pastebin.com/wiEH70x7
-
PapuaHardyNet
sistas? Is that a slang for "sisters"?
-
PapuaHardyNet
I don't know spanish btw raas[m]
-
swrangsar
cd build; cmake ..
-
swrangsar
*run
-
raas[m]
<PapuaHardyNet "sistas? Is that a slang for "sis"> I hope so. I'm trying to enter the room with a classy attitude.
-
PapuaHardyNet
well, you were classy, aside from that inscrutable term :P
-
raas[m]
😆
-
msvb-mob
Hello folks, please join #monero-events if you're interested in participating or advising the Monero Village at Defcon 29.
-
PapuaHardyNet
has anyone bought monero using changenow using a debit card? is there any KYC?
-
swrangsar
xmrig compiled with -DMAP_POPULATE=0 -DMAP_HUGETLB=0 but it refuses to run (segmentation fault) and dumps core in openbsd
-
lousy1[m]
hi
-
ErCiccione9
I'm happy to finally announce Haveno! The Monero-based DEX for trading XMR for fiat and cryptocurrencies! (PoC)
-
ErCiccione9
-
mechanic41turk[m
post is awaiting mod approval
-
ErCiccione9
yeah, kinda hype killer :P Waiting for a mod
-
orly_owl
xmr.is ded :(
-
orly_owl
-
mechanic41turk[m
<orly_owl "xmr.is ded :("> atomic swaps can't come soon enough
-
ErCiccione9
Post deleted. If a reddit mod comes online, please ping me
-
orly_owl
mechanic41turk[m: agreed
-
orly_owl
trustless trading is becoming more required
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
damp eet
-
orly_owl
ni haooooooooooooo
-
lord_fomo[m]
<orly_owl "trustless trading is becoming mo"> need it stat
-
orly_owl
yes doctor
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<lord_fomo[m] "
investing.com/news/c"> TLDR: "Bitcoin may make the USD no longer the reserve currency so we won't be able to bomb brown people overseas and give massive corporate bailouts and subsidies and buy votes through welfare"
-
lord_fomo[m]
yah but use your head
-
orly_owl
why would that stop the us gov from being a dick
-
lord_fomo[m]
US ain't taking btc as payment fer gunz
-
lord_fomo[m]
which is really why they're the reser curr
-
lord_fomo[m]
gunz, markets, liquidity
-
lord_fomo[m]
why you think china and friends doing this alt-war shit
-
somethingUniqueR
.val 0.007963 xmr
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: ≈$2.1405 • ≈ value of: 0.007963 XMR • Source: cmc/ccc/altm
-
DrDouchebag[m]
It's more about the world having to purchase oil using usd than guns
-
lord_fomo[m]
k
-
lord_fomo[m]
but again that's just markets
-
lord_fomo[m]
indices
-
lord_fomo[m]
commodity indexes
-
lord_fomo[m]
but even if those blow up
-
lord_fomo[m]
they still gots the gunz
-
DrDouchebag[m]
Yes, the usd is propped up by international oil trade and our massive military forcing other countries to use usd to buy and sell oil. Taking other currencies is not good for your health if you're some leader in the middle east
-
lord_fomo[m]
what do leaders do with all the oil money
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<lord_fomo[m] "they still gots the gunz"> I had a shitload but tragically lost em and my hardware wallets in a boating accident
-
lord_fomo[m]
🤔
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<lord_fomo[m] "what do leaders do with all the "> Give it to their friends
-
lord_fomo[m]
lol
-
orly_owl
lord_fomo[m]: retain their power, most importantly
-
lord_fomo[m]
no
-
lord_fomo[m]
they buy gunz
-
lord_fomo[m]
like all things actually important
-
orly_owl
obv
-
lord_fomo[m]
noone talks about this being the US's main business since wwII
-
orly_owl
guns help leaders retain power
-
DrDouchebag[m]
Well yeah the USD has power as reserve, because we force countries to use it for oil, which we can do because we have the biggest military, which we do because we stole the world's gold in 1971
-
lord_fomo[m]
if you got goldz
-
lord_fomo[m]
and the other guys got gunz
-
lord_fomo[m]
then he's gonna have goldz too
-
lord_fomo[m]
ur goldz
-
orly_owl
didnt a lot of the world's gold leave the USA in the 60s and 70s
-
orly_owl
other nations bought it
-
lord_fomo[m]
gold is just an idea
-
lord_fomo[m]
that's why crypto is important
-
lord_fomo[m]
as long as we have power and puters
-
lord_fomo[m]
gold is dumb
-
DrDouchebag[m]
We have the biggest military because all the countries gave us their gold after ww2 to use the usd as a reserve currency then in 1971 we stopped allowing other countries to exchange usd for their gold back. We became insanely wealthy printing money because it was already used as the reserve and we had the majority of gold and we spend a shitload on the military making the us bigger than the next 10 combined
-
orly_owl
crypto is also an idea
-
DrDouchebag[m]
Crypto could replace gold potentially, at least partially, so it's a threat to the reserve
-
DrDouchebag[m]
The history behind how the us fucked over the rest of the world and made them use usd is very interesting
-
lord_fomo[m]
<orly_owl "crypto is also an idea"> yes which is why it takes gold
-
orly_owl
'takes'?
-
lord_fomo[m]
as long as we have power, puters, smart people not running from cannibals / zombies
-
lord_fomo[m]
<orly_owl "'takes'?"> rock paper scissors bruh
-
orly_owl
hrmmmmmmmm
-
orly_owl
paper
-
lord_fomo[m]
scypto is da ✂️
-
lord_fomo[m]
* $crypto is da ✂️
-
orly_owl
im sure i wouldve lost regardless of what i pick
-
orly_owl
like brexit
-
lord_fomo[m]
* $crypto is da paper
-
lord_fomo[m]
ur right
-
lord_fomo[m]
what's scissor
-
lord_fomo[m]
if we insist gold = rock 😂
-
orly_owl
✂️
-
lord_fomo[m]
ahhh gunz
-
lord_fomo[m]
gunz, gold, crypto
-
lord_fomo[m]
gold takes gunz
-
lord_fomo[m]
gunz take crypto
-
lord_fomo[m]
nah
-
lord_fomo[m]
need more options
-
charolastra
the US and to a certain extend their dog in europe (UK) convinced other nations to send them their gold for safe keeping. then when they came to audit their stocks the US showd them a room full of gold and said "this is your gold" and those idiots believed it
-
orly_owl
woof woof
-
orly_owl
topkek
-
orly_owl
charolastra: the US must be good at painting rocks
-
charolastra
and in every war where the US conquered the capital city, suddently unmarked planes landed, unmarked troups jumped out and raided the local central bank
-
charolastra
orly_owl: no, you just need to show every "client" the same room. it's like inverse fractional banking, only with gold
-
orly_owl
thats just rich people emptying their safe deposit boxes
-
orly_owl
ah of course
-
orly_owl
just keep some gold and show everyone, cheaper
-
charolastra
also google "iraq gold stolen" for some fun pics
-
orly_owl
i want there to a a skit show of them loading gold into the plane
-
lord_fomo[m]
i was gonna say
-
lord_fomo[m]
gold is real in the sense the CBs trade with it
-
lord_fomo[m]
but they have vaults
-
lord_fomo[m]
most peeps don't
-
orly_owl
yakety sax optional
-
lord_fomo[m]
so vaults helps with gunz
-
orly_owl
oh Central Banks, thought it was Cucked Bitches
-
lord_fomo[m]
except, clearly not when all the gunz show up 😂
-
ErCiccione9
I'm happy to announce Haveno: The Monero based DEX for trading XMR for fiat and cryptocurrencies! (PoC):
reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/mmrchk…nnounce_haveno_the_monero_based_dex
-
ErCiccione9
(second try)
-
orly_owl
there are private vaults that hold gold, not just central banks
-
charolastra
-
lord_fomo[m]
thonkang
-
lord_fomo[m]
charolastra: bruh use nitter
-
charolastra
sorrey
-
lord_fomo[m]
stawp plebbin
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<lord_fomo[m] "
nitter.dark.fail/sc13riz"> I saw this Marky Mark movie
-
lord_fomo[m]
so haveno is scam er wut
-
orly_owl
just assume it is
-
pixelized[m]
the repo seems to be typical of a 'small time project by good guy developer'
-
pixelized[m]
so.. at least there's that
-
lord_fomo[m]
nothing wrong with that
-
pixelized[m]
yes, that's a good thing
-
lord_fomo[m]
link it
-
lord_fomo[m]
GH?
-
pixelized[m]
but assuming the worst until 'proven' otherwise seems reasonable
-
pixelized[m]
yes GH
-
pixelized[m]
-
pixelized[m]
there you go
-
lord_fomo[m]
thanks
-
lord_fomo[m]
> Haveno is a fork of Bisq, the Bitcoin based decentralized exchange. We believe Bisq is not enough for Monero users, which badly need a private way to exchange Monero for other (crypto)currencies.
-
pixelized[m]
you're welcome
-
ErCiccione9
some healthy skepticism. Good to see :)
-
lord_fomo[m]
seems like this guy should read that issue
-
lord_fomo[m]
> At the moment Haveno is only a Proof of Concept. It's already possible to initiate a crypto <-> XMR trade, but the platform still needs a lot of work before being available for public use.
-
lord_fomo[m]
ugh that means it's java doesn't it
-
pixelized[m]
😂
-
lord_fomo[m]
not sure why you'd fork instead of just work on that issue
-
lord_fomo[m]
i'm gonna bish at him
-
orly_owl
wouldnt it be easier to just add more monero support to bisq
-
fluffypony
that's an odd approach
-
orly_owl
what is?
-
fluffypony
all of the liquidity is in Bisq
-
fluffypony
orly_owl: forking it
-
fluffypony
sorry should have been clear
-
orly_owl
ah, yeah
-
orly_owl
np :)
-
orly_owl
idk i guess some people always want to do their own thing
-
ErCiccione9
fluffypony: I don't see the oddity. I've been pushing Bisq to add a better Monero integration for a long time, but beside wasting dev resources on and integration that was never implemented
-
ErCiccione9
Bisq is clunky, buggy, not user friendly and based on Bitcoin, which makes it not private and expensive
-
orly_owl
i really wish they'd move away from java too
-
fluffypony
yeah this ^^
-
ErCiccione9
yeah, that's something we are considering as well.
-
fluffypony
better to take the concept and reimplement imho
-
fluffypony
too much tech debt
-
orly_owl
it makes bisq so fucking slow
-
ErCiccione9
fluffypony: we wanted to have a PoC ready as soon as possible. We considered the resources we had and planned accordingly. All Haveno as you see it has been build by woodser only, with me testing afterwards.
-
fluffypony
got it
-
ErCiccione9
we hope that going public with a poc will make people interested in the project and will allow us to onboard devs
-
ErCiccione9
and build on that
-
woodser
we're looking at keeping the java backend (stripped of anything not needed and optimizing performance) and using electrum-java for the frontend
-
fluffypony
woodser: neat
-
somethingUniqueR
ErCiccione9: PoC platform on a chip?
-
ErCiccione9
Proof Of Concept
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<woodser "we're looking at keeping the jav"> Very cool
-
orly_owl
^
-
somethingUniqueR
ah ty
-
orly_owl
never keep the javascript
-
orly_owl
*java
-
orly_owl
fml
-
selsta
ErCiccione9: afaik bisq has its own coin
-
selsta
I assume haveno will use xmr or btc as currency?
-
ErCiccione9
they use a token. A colored bitcoin
-
ErCiccione9
xmr base currency yes
-
ErCiccione9
we don't use tokens
-
selsta
ok good :)
-
ErCiccione9
it's based on multisig
-
orly_owl
bisq's token is BSQ
-
lord_fomo[m]
fluffypony: yah i bished at him
-
lord_fomo[m]
doesn't need a fork of a shit code base that's for sure
-
lord_fomo[m]
didn't we just have a buncha drama bout that 😂
-
lord_fomo[m]
oh wait
-
lord_fomo[m]
ErCiccione: and woodser are haveno devs?
-
lord_fomo[m]
<ErCiccione9 "yeah, that's something we are co"> zig
-
lord_fomo[m]
or nim
-
lord_fomo[m]
doo eeet
-
selsta
monero will benefit from a DeX with atomic swaps, the programming language used is kinda secondary
-
orly_owl
price go up?
-
Inge-
orly_owl: wrong channel :P
-
orly_owl
oh woops
-
» orly_owl joins #annoyingpeople
-
» moneromooo moves a bit to make space for orly_owl
-
orly_owl
ty
-
Bill48105
what up mooo
-
moneromooo
I just fixed a bug! yay!
-
Bill48105
grats but how did you get his little legs apart to snip snip
-
moneromooo
Let me show you...
-
Bill48105
rekt
-
orly_owl
o_____0
-
lord_fomo[m]
> the programming language used is kinda secondary
-
lord_fomo[m]
selsta depends if you want new contributors
-
orly_owl
TempleOS accepted no patches
-
lord_fomo[m]
so i'd say that's not true
-
selsta
Java is certainly more popular than zig or nim, unless you were trolling :P
-
lord_fomo[m]
more popular != getting new contribs to monero
-
lord_fomo[m]
which clearly isn't written in java nor affiliated with that community
-
lord_fomo[m]
so not trolling selsta
-
Lovera[m]
Haveno looks nice 👍🏼 good Job guys @ErCiccione
-
Lovera[m]
Bullish on Monero 😎
-
-
ErCiccione9
lord_fomo: We considered moving away from Java, but we basically had no resources, we made the choice that was a good compromise. Nothing is set in stone btw.
-
lord_fomo[m]
yah i get it fo sho
-
lord_fomo[m]
i guess if it was me i woulda tried to put up a patch to bisq
-
lord_fomo[m]
and then try to get their interest
-
lord_fomo[m]
which = resources
-
lord_fomo[m]
but like, you do you
-
lord_fomo[m]
if the codebase needs a serious overhaul and they're bein lame
-
ErCiccione9
i've been trying that for quite some time
-
lord_fomo[m]
then forkz away
-
lord_fomo[m]
but i think if ur gonna do that
-
lord_fomo[m]
be transparent about it
-
lord_fomo[m]
so you light a fire under their asses
-
lord_fomo[m]
also never hurts to have allies who already know the codebase ur trying to rework 😉
-
ErCiccione9
We are being very transparent. This is not a malicious fork. We acknowledge their work, but we decided to go a different way. They don't want to prioritize monero even if it's used by the vast majority of their users? I can try to persuade them and work toward having a better xmr support. if that fails, we have to split ways.
-
lord_fomo[m]
> We are being very transparent. This is not a malicious fork.
-
lord_fomo[m]
no not at all what i meant
-
lord_fomo[m]
i just looked at repo initially and didn't realize it was bisq
-
lord_fomo[m]
and i think explaining you've already tried is something worth noting
-
lord_fomo[m]
> We acknowledge and thank Bisq for their efforts, but we think the Monero community needs a native, private way to exchange XMR for other currencies without passing through Bitcoin first and Haveno is here to fill that gap! We commit to contribute back to Bisq when possible.
-
lord_fomo[m]
like that's pretty much your justification
-
lord_fomo[m]
technical reasons are always good 😉
-
lord_fomo[m]
anyway just giving feedback as an outside observer
-
skkjwzowfjbp
For a community that prides itself on manipulating people, you can't manage a single guy that spends most of his time in his underpants :D
-
orly_owl
"Spam is off topic on freenode" mhm
-
lord_fomo[m]
woa
-
lord_fomo[m]
like everyone i work with is in underpants right now
-
orly_owl
lord_fomo[m]: i thought you were more of a mumu guy
-
lord_fomo[m]
wat dat
-
azy
gotta get dressed in the morning. self-respect 101
-
lord_fomo[m]
bruh
-
azy
dont @ me
-
lord_fomo[m]
gotta do deadlifts in the morning
-
lord_fomo[m]
then check out ur quadz
-
lord_fomo[m]
in da undies
-
orly_owl
lord_fomo[m]: The muumuu or muʻumuʻu is a loose dress of Hawaiian origin that hangs from the shoulder and is like a cross between a shirt and a robe.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muumuu
-
lord_fomo[m]
shiat
-
orly_owl
either way, put tape over your webcam
-
orly_owl
the joke here is that you are extremely fat
-
lord_fomo[m]
i think i get it
-
orly_owl
good
-
orly_owl
if only you got some exercise. so sad.
-
lord_fomo[m]
you should watch last man on earth
-
lord_fomo[m]
fat is in now
-
orly_owl
did he eat everyone else?
-
lord_fomo[m]
dawg
-
lord_fomo[m]
just watch it
-
orly_owl
no
-
orly_owl
give me a magnetlink and i will
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's will forte
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's gud
-
orly_owl
The Last Man on Earth (TV series), a 2015 American comedy television series
-
lord_fomo[m]
ye ur like phil
-
lord_fomo[m]
trying to go the "fat is bad route"
-
lord_fomo[m]
but you forgot bout personality bruh
-
lord_fomo[m]
the secret weapon
-
orly_owl
i dont give a hoot
-
lord_fomo[m]
then why'd you bring it up
-
orly_owl
comedic purposes
-
lord_fomo[m]
yah i was just sayin ur joke is dated
-
lord_fomo[m]
that's why noone is laughing
-
» orly_owl doesnt give a hoot
-
lord_fomo[m]
pwned
-
yanmaani
I want to exchange $1000 or so of Bitcoin for Monero without KYC.
-
yanmaani
What's the cheapest way to do this?
-
yanmaani
Does Bisq support Monero?
-
lord_fomo[m]
no
-
orly_owl
:(
-
orly_owl
yanmaani: put an offer on
localmonero.co
-
lord_fomo[m]
fiat - bisq > btc (wasabi) -> non-KYC ex account -> xmr -> xmr wallet # 2 -> non-kyc account -> trade
-
orly_owl
bisq requires kyc?
-
lord_fomo[m]
no
-
orly_owl
then why cant he use bisq
-
lord_fomo[m]
but you gotta do kyc xfers on the fiat side afaiu
-
orly_owl
oh
-
lord_fomo[m]
bisq doesn't have xmr support
-
orly_owl
unless cash by mail
-
lord_fomo[m]
literally what was discussed all morning
-
orly_owl
ok
-
orly_owl
i only read the things i type
-
orly_owl
because im better than everyone else
-
chile09[m]
crypto ATM with no KYC LTC -> XMR?
-
lord_fomo[m]
someone should make a repo / wiki with recipes for this
-
entry1
<chile09[m] "crypto ATM with no KYC LTC -> XM"> Gonna be taxed on the initial purchase and still requires BTC to LTC
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's honestly pretty frustrating to figure it all out on ur own
-
entry1
By taxed, I mean overcharged
-
lord_fomo[m]
like if you wanna go anon
-
orly_owl
-
chile09[m]
<entry1 "Gonna be taxed on the initial pu"> taxed? you mean the fee? it's LTC -> XMR not BTC -> XMR
-
orly_owl
can still do btc to xmr directly on
localmonero.co
-
yeswepump
.balance
-
Wallet
yeswepump: • Your balance is: 0.0000077 XMR (≈0 USD)
-
Bill48105
what do you pump
-
Bill48105
gas? :)
-
chile09[m]
BTC transaction speed is slow compared with LTC
-
yanmaani
lord_fomo[m]: I want to sell BTC and get XMR
-
Bill48105
ltc is much faster and cheaper than btc but what isn't
-
orly_owl
-
Bill48105
there are many options for btc to monero
-
yanmaani
atomic swaps when
-
orly_owl
.soon
-
Wallet
orly_owl: Your default coin is now set to XMR. Change with coins command.
-
Wallet
orly_owl: ≈$0.0699 • ≈ value of: 1 SOON • Source: cmc/ccc/altm
-
orly_owl
hrmm
-
Bill48105
that narrows it eh
-
orly_owl
i have coins in here?
-
Bill48105
soon is a coin with market data so it triggers the market info
-
entry1
<yanmaani "I want to exchange $1000 or so o"> Going rate is 6% on ChangeNow through Cake Wallet.
-
orly_owl
that makes more sense
-
Bill48105
the bot looks for commands then known coins with market data then ignores
-
Bill48105
the . prefix triggers the process
-
yanmaani
entry1: that's awful
-
Bill48105
but yes in this case the bot does have soon coin
-
yanmaani
what do you mean going rate
-
entry1
<chile09[m] "taxed? you mean the fee? it's LT"> He wants to do $1000 XBT to XMR, not $1000 to XMR
-
Bill48105
rough average fee?
-
orly_owl
oh
-
yanmaani
localmonero does it for ~2%, which seems reasonable
-
orly_owl
very reasonable imo
-
yanmaani
how long until we have cross-chain swaps for xmr?
-
orly_owl
about that long
-
orly_owl
sometime this year is my prediction
-
chile09[m]
crypto ATM 10% fee sometimes less
-
chile09[m]
wanted to buy one and pocket the fee
-
orly_owl
whats stopping you
-
lord_fomo[m]
<yanmaani "lord_fomo: I want to sell BTC an"> just use KYC ex
-
lord_fomo[m]
then use multiple xmr wallets if you want anon
-
lord_fomo[m]
but i mean orig amount will be associated with you
-
yanmaani
lord_fomo[m]: that's stupid, I don't want to KYC
-
yanmaani
I'll associate the bitcoins with my real identity
-
yanmaani
which is what I do not want
-
lord_fomo[m]
well then wait for atomic swaps
-
lord_fomo[m]
the btc is not tied to id?
-
lord_fomo[m]
right now?
-
lord_fomo[m]
you a miner?
-
Inge-
I wonder how many will be managing two stacks of BTC - one KYC'ed stack and one "anon" stack
-
chile09[m]
some ATMs sell XMR directly
-
lord_fomo[m]
<yanmaani "localmonero does it for ~2%, whi"> not it's not
-
lord_fomo[m]
the whole point of this shit is no middle men
-
chile09[m]
any blockchain besides XMR is public
-
chile09[m]
tumble it all you want it wont hide the transaction
-
yanmaani
don't see why I can't just use bisq
-
yanmaani
> Monero (XMR) is one of the most active markets on Bisq
-
yanmaani
how does it not support it
-
chile09[m]
bisq is good
-
chile09[m]
but with crypto ATM you just show the QR code of the wallet and input cash and boom
-
chile09[m]
fees are high though
-
chile09[m]
so maybe buy an ATM with friends
-
chile09[m]
and split the fee proceeds
-
yanmaani
I don't want to pay absurd fees
-
Inge-
Then why do you have BTC?
-
» Inge- ducks
-
yanmaani
no I have no intention of buying an ATM, I just want to sell BTC for XMR
-
orly_owl
quack!
-
chile09[m]
atomic swap
-
yanmaani
Inge-: cause some people insisted in paying me in it
-
Inge-
bisq / atomic swaps sounds like good bets?
-
yanmaani
chile09[m]: Do they exist yet?
-
entry1
<yanmaani "I don't want to pay absurd fees"> You can do a 6% fee without KYC. Probably your best bet ATM or use localmonero
-
chile09[m]
they are developing atomic swaps for XMR right now
-
entry1
* You can do a 6% fee without KYC. Probably your best bet at the moment or use localmonero
-
chile09[m]
COMIT testnet
-
yanmaani
yes, localmonero seems like a good deal. Considering the site takes 1% fee, you probably can't do much better than that
-
chile09[m]
you can swap with atomic wallet but then they freeze all you crypto
-
chile09[m]
your*
-
entry1
<yanmaani "yes, localmonero seems like a go"> You won't be able to do 6% most likely on localmonero unless you directly contact a seller
-
orly_owl
why dont sellers just put lower prices on the site
-
yanmaani
chile09[m]: Who? I want to dump my bitcoins, if they get frozen after that that's someone else's problem
-
Inge-
atomic wallet is such a misnomer
-
yanmaani
entry1: I mean, there's open offers right now of ~2%
-
Bill48105
more radioactive than atomic eh
-
yanmaani
3.5% spread
-
chile09[m]
no I mean when I tested the atomic swap they froze all transactions
-
Bill48105
all the quoted fees are before network fees?
-
chile09[m]
So XMR can't be sent to anywhere
-
Bill48105
not worth much if it can't be moved eh
-
yanmaani
what does this mean?
-
chile09[m]
-
yanmaani
Bill48105: those are the quoted prices. Each side pays their own tx fees, I presume
-
yanmaani
I deliver to them BTC X, they send me XMR Y. I pay BTC-side tx fees, they pay XMR-side tx fees (none, it's a localmonero internal xfer)
-
lord_fomo[m]
<chile09[m] "any blockchain besides XMR is pu">
blog.turtlecoin.lol
-
lord_fomo[m]
i think turtle is based on monero
-
lord_fomo[m]
but just started reading about it
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
nioc
turtle lol
-
Bill48105
yeah it's what i figured on fees but doesn't hurt to ask
-
lord_fomo[m]
yah it's lulz
-
Bill48105
i mean if you use coinswap it's all inclusive
-
Bill48105
but dont recall if they support monero
-
lord_fomo[m]
btw
-
lord_fomo[m]
hawt feed
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
yanmaani
does tradeogre allow tor?
-
chile09[m]
<chile09[m] "
github.com/comit-network"> you could try but its alpha
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
> Funds were deposited in dollars in a Citi account, tokenized and transferred using digital wallets before being transferred into Dominican pesos at an exchange rate set by Citi.
-
lord_fomo[m]
suitz are gettin on board
-
orly_owl
Dominican pesos?!
-
chile09[m]
-
chile09[m]
cross the chain dudes
-
yanmaani
chile09[m]: this is not yet possible
-
nc1236[m]
-
nc1236[m]
Why aren't the bisq devs taking initiative and implementing more XMR pairs themselves?
-
nc1236[m]
Good on these devs for doing this
-
gingeropolous
prolly full of bitcoin folks
-
dEBRUYNE
Bisq basically rejected an XMR integration 1.5-2 years ago ->
bisq-network/proposals #110
-
gingeropolous
yeah exactly. i think they were willing to show support by having it listed as a btc pair, but when it comes to fully integrated ....
-
gingeropolous
as a base currency....
-
yanmaani
Are there any good (KYC) XMR <-> fiat exchanges?
-
yanmaani
I suppose localmonero.co would do the trick
-
nc1236[m]
Are you in the US?
-
dEBRUYNE
yanmaani: Kraken
-
nioc
yanmaani: kraken for kyc xmr <> fiat
-
apotheon
yanmaani: Do you want KYC or non-KYC?
-
apotheon
yanmaani: . . . 'cause I don't see how localmonero.co is KYC.
-
dEBRUYNE
Sellers may ask for KYC
-
dEBRUYNE
^ apotheon
-
apotheon
I guess that's a good point.
-
apotheon
I'll just move along, then.
-
nc1236[m]
You can buy LTC and swap it for XMR using something like changenow.io
-
nc1236[m]
Buy the LTC via a KYC exchange
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Why did I get banned from #monero-pools
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
I was idling overnight
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
You have been kicked from #monero-pools by asymptotically
-
apotheon
Maybe there's a very low tolerance there for dropping and rejoining . . . ?
-
apotheon
I dunno.
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Weird
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
I thought it was just a kick but im banned lol
-
Bill48105
yeah i'd guess the drops. you are like ping pong sally over here 24x7
-
apotheon
I suppose you could try sending the person a private message asking why.
-
Bill48105
right on queue lol
-
apotheon
or you could drop off just as I say that
-
apotheon
It might not even have ended up with a kickban if the username wasn't so obnoxious.
-
Bill48105
mid sentence helping & another drop
-
apotheon
joindropjoindropjoindrop probably ends up looking like constant screaming.
-
Bill48105
speak of the devil
-
apotheon
so
-
apotheon
trying again
-
Bill48105
yeah i'd guess the drops. you are like ping pong sally over here 24x7
-
apotheon
It might not even have ended up with a kickban if the username wasn't so obnoxious.
-
apotheon
joindropjoindropjoindrop probably ends up looking like constant screaming.
-
Bill48105
here go spamming 100's of other users repeating ourselves to the person spamming join/parts lol
-
apotheon
yep
-
Bill48105
on bright side we're less annoying :D
-
apotheon
It's a lovely cascade effect.
-
apotheon
Bill48105: Speak for yourself. I'm sure I'm plenty annoying.
-
Bill48105
^^
-
Bill48105
:D
-
Bill48105
think anyone can be annoying at times
-
Bill48105
trick is to remain under threshold of quiet or kick ban
-
apotheon
I don't even try to be annoying. I dunno.
-
Bill48105
too bad irc clients didn't default to not showing join parts eh. then it'd be like discord & other newb networks where users ping pong 1000x a day & no one notices
-
apotheon
I prefer being able to see it for the people who don't yo-yo all the time, so I know whether someone with whom I'm speaking is even there.
-
orly_owl
you can hide them on your own irc client
-
apotheon
orly_owl: Yeah, but Bill48105 was talking about defaults.
-
orly_owl
true, he was
-
apotheon
I wonder whether there are still clients that don't allow that (other than the occasional "I wrote my own client" case).
-
orly_owl
aka total shit clients
-
apotheon
I especially don't feel like I should block those messages for channels where I'm an op.
-
orly_owl
heaps of irc clients around, no excuse to not have it
-
orly_owl
being op is just unpaid work
-
apotheon
other than people who just want to write their own and haven't added that feature yet
-
orly_owl
hmm
-
apotheon
orly_owl: So is changing the oil on your own car or writing open source software.
-
orly_owl
oh, right
-
orly_owl
apotheon: was a joke
-
apotheon
yep
-
orly_owl
k
-
Bill48105
yeah i was saying we are jsut used to seeing join parts on irc since it's default on most all clients to show them
-
orly_owl
i see
-
Bill48105
had we not been used to seeing them or if they were not possible to even be shown (jsut the user list updates like discord etc) then no one would bitch about join part spam :D
-
orly_owl
the irc protocol was probably designed with dial up internet in mind
-
Bill48105
right 800 years ago
-
Bill48105
and people were on a few min actually talked then came back another day
-
orly_owl
it was 1988, but sure
-
Bill48105
i recall i was there ;)
-
orly_owl
quite a while ago for technology
-
orly_owl
Bill48105: you wrote the first irc client didnt you? :)
-
Bill48105
no but i was early michnet user and on the old school bbs
-
Bill48105
remember merit?
-
burp
real men use telnet/netcat and answer PING's by hand
-
apotheon
My parental units sucked, so I didn't get the opportunity to use the internet in 1988.
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
krak all in a da rust
-
apotheon
burp: answer pings by hand . . . great
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Idk why I keep dropping
-
Bill48105
hell i remember being online & no screen.. the dot matrix printer was where it output to
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
I'll be honest I thought that was just part of the IRC experience
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
People just dropping and joining constantly
-
Bill48105
lol
-
apotheon
Why doesn't the Rust Evangelism Strike Force launch OxideCoin?
-
Bill48105
let me guess you have irc on your phone & you walk around the house
-
orly_owl
Bill48105: sounds like a CEO who still prints emails
-
lord_fomo[m]
rusty ventures
-
Bill48105
lol nice
-
orly_owl
rusty trombone
-
apotheon
wow
-
apotheon
That took a turn.
-
orly_owl
;)
-
Bill48105
but really you'd dial by hand put the phone handset in the acoustic coupler & wait for the prompts to print out. then you'd type responses
-
orly_owl
good thing call waiting didnt exist then
-
Bill48105
good times
-
orly_owl
Bill48105: "ASL?"
-
apotheon
I recall my father being ridiculously proud of his 800 baud modem.
-
orly_owl
burp: do real men also have a picture of lenna on their walls?
-
orly_owl
apotheon: has he kept pace with technology
-
lord_fomo[m]
<apotheon "I recall my father being ridicul"> that's what happens wen you got a *hawt baud*
-
Bill48105
slowest i used was 300 baud but 1200 was common
-
apotheon
The 800 baud modem he got was probably the first or second model available at that speed.
-
apotheon
He had a cellphone when the first hand-held cinderblock-size cellphones appeared.
-
Bill48105
hand me downs to the school yeah lol
-
apotheon
He bought a CD player when there were something like five CDs available in the US.
-
apotheon
He was kinda ridiculous about that stuff.
-
orly_owl
yeah but does he have fiber internet now?
-
apotheon
On the plus side, he was the reason I had my first computer.
-
apotheon
orly_owl: I have no idea, and don't care.
-
Bill48105
ouch
-
orly_owl
sounds like he was an early adopter, aka paid the highest price for the first generation
-
Bill48105
awkward
-
orly_owl
ok then
-
orly_owl
nm...
-
apotheon
What he has is half a dozen different eye/vision problems, and has to get shots in his eyeballs every month.
-
apotheon
It's crazy.
-
orly_owl
is that from smoking
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
No I have it on my laptop lol
-
apotheon
nope, never smoked
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
I've never used IRC on my phone
-
Bill48105
your laptop might be going to sleep or turning off your connection to save power
-
pixelized[m]
ooooof, shots in your eyeballs?
-
pixelized[m]
vision problems from what then? early adopter of high blood pressure as well?
-
orly_owl
pixelized[m]: the joys of poor health
-
Bill48105
diabetes can wreck eyes bad if that's it
-
apotheon
I have a weird collection of feelings about Dad, especially any time something involving money in the last two decades comes up (and his likelihood of having fiber optic internet at home qualifies as "money", I guess).
-
apotheon
Sorry about that answer.
-
orly_owl
eh np
-
apotheon
He lost my fucking car years ago. He basically disowned his father over nothing. Good times.
-
pixelized[m]
good reminder to me to watch my health, i've gained like 30 pounds in the last year
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: I have a great suggestion for how to deal with that.
-
pixelized[m]
<apotheon "He lost my fucking car years ago"> my god
-
-
orly_owl
pixelized[m]: i can call you fat at regular intervals for a small monthly fee
-
pixelized[m]
i'm not strictly fat yet, it also wouldn't really work for me but thanks
-
orly_owl
ok just so you know
-
orly_owl
lord_fomo[m]: that guy got killed for his gold shirt
-
pixelized[m]
i'll keep it in mind in case i need something to spend my monero on on the regular :P
-
orly_owl
last i checked
-
pixelized[m]
<apotheon "pixelized: I have a great sugges"> do tell?
-
pixelized[m]
also, man, that's quite a thing
-
orly_owl
pixelized[m]: theres always drugs!
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: Start by setting an absolute, inviolable rule for yourself between seven at night and seven in the morning where you consume zero calories. Gradually increase the time you're not allowed to have calories until it's sixteen hours.
-
apotheon
Live like that. It'll help a lot with health things generally, and weight loss in particular.
-
lord_fomo[m]
bruh there's already an obvious solution to "fat"
-
pixelized[m]
almost everyone has some sort of serious family issue but it's always the worst when it involves your parents or siblings
-
orly_owl
sounds like intermitent fasting
-
lord_fomo[m]
cmon
-
lord_fomo[m]
peeps been doing it for millenia
-
orly_owl
lord_fomo[m]: is it a gold shirt?
-
lord_fomo[m]
you said it
-
orly_owl
also whats that logo
-
lord_fomo[m]
fasting ftw
-
orly_owl
obv its a coin
-
lord_fomo[m]
turtle coin
-
lord_fomo[m]
apparently based on xmr
-
orly_owl
ok
-
lord_fomo[m]
i just learned about it this week
-
lord_fomo[m]
their room is friggin hillarious
-
pixelized[m]
you know what i'll try the 'increased time of no eating a day' thing, apotheon
-
orly_owl
did some ninja turtles makes it
-
pixelized[m]
sounds like a smart way to ease yourself into eating less
-
apotheon
orly_owl: It is intermittent fasting, but it's the easiest form of intermittent fasting known to humankind. It ends up feeling like "life is normal" instead of "my god I'm starving for a whole day every week".
-
pixelized[m]
also sounds better than something like only eating every other day
-
lord_fomo[m]
pixelized: i been "intermittent fasting" for like 5 yrs
-
lord_fomo[m]
only way to be
-
orly_owl
starving sucks, thats why i change the channel when those ads come on
-
lord_fomo[m]
go back to your roots
-
lord_fomo[m]
3 meals a day is coorps cucking you for profit
-
lord_fomo[m]
plain and simple
-
orly_owl
really bums me out
-
pixelized[m]
not sure if joking, lord_fomo, but i do agree
-
lord_fomo[m]
i'm not
-
apotheon
I've been eating only in an eight-hour window every day for quite a while now. It's great.
-
pixelized[m]
alright
-
orly_owl
lord_fomo[m]: the food pyramid is the real scam
-
pixelized[m]
yeah i hold the same position
-
lord_fomo[m]
i do multi-dayers too
-
lord_fomo[m]
done one every month this year so far
-
apotheon
I sometimes forget to eat breakfast until it's late enough that I end up with a six-hour window of eating, actually.
-
pixelized[m]
i've been doing two meals, sometimes one a day as well
-
lord_fomo[m]
<apotheon "I sometimes forget to eat breakf"> turn this into a habit
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's actually super easy
-
lord_fomo[m]
just takes time
-
apotheon
lord_fomo[m]: I remember when I'm hungry in the morning, which isn't always.
-
pixelized[m]
with intermittent days of not eating more than the equivalent of an apple or so
-
pixelized[m]
but whenever i do eat anything it always turns out to be an insane amount
-
lord_fomo[m]
i eat one meal a day usually after 17:00
-
lord_fomo[m]
and low carb
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: It helps if the first calories you consume are purely protein and animal fat, and if there isn't a lot of it.
-
pixelized[m]
two slices of bread always seem to turn into 6 - 10
-
orly_owl
wtf
-
orly_owl
are you building a bread house
-
lord_fomo[m]
^ will keep you in ketosis if maintained
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: That'll help kinda train you to be less hungry in the mornings, and it'll extend the ketosis a little bit for extra benefits.
-
lord_fomo[m]
wat apotheon said
-
pixelized[m]
nah not building a bread house, just... an avid eater of bread i guess?
-
lord_fomo[m]
honestly once you drop it you don't miss it
-
lord_fomo[m]
big + with fasting is your mind is clear all day
-
lord_fomo[m]
so you can get shit dun
-
orly_owl
your bread must be really tasty then
-
pixelized[m]
yeah the bread is pretty good
-
apotheon
The missus loves bread.
-
orly_owl
where do you people live that bread is just super fantastic?
-
pixelized[m]
but it's hard to get bread that doesn't at least taste still taste somewhat like fresh bread here
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: A fun trick is to drink whole milk, if you're used to 2% or skim or whatever. You'll actually feel full a lot faster if you use whole milk.
-
kayront
i really like bread, but the massive crash in energy that comes from indulging is hardly worth it anymore
-
pixelized[m]
heck it's even pretty unusual to get any sort of canned foods, it's all fresh
-
kayront
carbs in general
-
pixelized[m]
apotheon, i wouldn't dare drink skim milk
-
pixelized[m]
the only milk i ever use in my life is whole milk
-
apotheon
Losing weight by drinking skim milk is like losing weight by eating one piece of toast: it makes you hungrier, and isn't actually healthier.
-
pixelized[m]
but i don't drink milk regardless
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: good for you
-
apotheon
I don't drink milk straight except with cookies, generally.
-
pixelized[m]
though i do consume a lot of cheese
-
apotheon
mmm, snickerdoodles
-
apotheon
mmm, cheese
-
pixelized[m]
i don't drink milk, even with cookies
-
orly_owl
deep fried mars bars
-
apotheon
Do you eat snickerdoodles?
-
pixelized[m]
somehow milk always registers as 'cow juice' in my mind and i find it very hard to get down
-
apotheon
wow
-
apotheon
If you actually put a cow in a juicer, you'd get pulpy blood.
-
pixelized[m]
but i have no trouble consuming cheese, probably out of habit
-
lord_fomo[m]
pixelized: then wat are eggz
-
lord_fomo[m]
bruh
-
apotheon
chicken placenta
-
orly_owl
eggs are bum nuts
-
orly_owl
its the same hole
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's period bruh
-
apotheon
or chicken period
-
lord_fomo[m]
there's no placenta
-
lord_fomo[m]
yah
-
pixelized[m]
it's not a particularly rational thing, freud would probably suggest i almost drowned in a bucket of milk as a kid or whatever
-
apotheon
Here's a great thought:
-
apotheon
Chickens defecate and give birth through the same hole.
-
apotheon
That's where we get our eggs.
-
pixelized[m]
bloaaaaaat
-
pixelized[m]
cloacas are bloat
-
pixelized[m]
get one thing to do one thing well
-
pixelized[m]
ya chicken
-
apotheon
Food, it turns out, is disgusting.
-
orly_owl
^
-
pixelized[m]
yeah, i'm very aware
-
pixelized[m]
somehow milking animals has never been an issue to me (as an unintentional bugman it's not something i've done often, but sometimes)
-
pixelized[m]
but milk out of a carton
-
orly_owl
bugman?
-
pixelized[m]
idk, it just triggers something in me
-
orly_owl
maybe you should buy a cow
-
pixelized[m]
bugman = city dweller dependent on the system
-
lord_fomo[m]
isn't that a slicker
-
pixelized[m]
i have considered buying a cow but it's not particularly practical given that i have yet to move out of the city
-
pixelized[m]
also the ladyfriend would probably not appreciate it
-
lord_fomo[m]
slicker alert 🚨
-
apotheon
How is a slicker a bugman? I'm curious about this term.
-
lord_fomo[m]
cuz they slippin in the muck
-
lord_fomo[m]
got ballance
-
lord_fomo[m]
need sidewalks to function
-
moneromooo
I considered buying a couple humans, to make me a few good meals every 9 months.
-
lord_fomo[m]
* got not ballance
-
orly_owl
pixelized[m]: ladyfriends keep having opinions, such a drag
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: Would you take your cow for walks in the afternoons, and carry around a thirty-gallon garbage bag to pick up the cowpies?
-
lord_fomo[m]
* got no balance
-
orly_owl
apotheon: you mean the excellent manure to put on the garden
-
pixelized[m]
orly said it well
-
apotheon
yes, that
-
pixelized[m]
but i probably wouldn't given that it's looking unlikely i'll have a cow anytime soon
-
apotheon
Tell me why the term "bugman" exists, though.
-
apotheon
I must know.
-
pixelized[m]
i think it's derived from eusocial insects
-
apotheon
hmm
-
pixelized[m]
where every individual functions as a mindless unit in a larger system
-
orly_owl
i know some of those words
-
apotheon
That's interesting.
-
pixelized[m]
without much self-ownership
-
apotheon
like a bee or ant, then
-
orly_owl
so like rednecks or office workers
-
pixelized[m]
indeed
-
pixelized[m]
and i guess that was just translated into 'bugman' through some happenings in history
-
pixelized[m]
yeah like rednecks or office workers
-
apotheon
-
apotheon
seems to kinda fit
-
apotheon
but not for all cityfolk
-
pixelized[m]
i do break up cultural homogeneity a lot where i live and i'm very independent on the digital front
-
pixelized[m]
but when it comes to things that actually exist
-
orly_owl
so you're a digital front man
-
pixelized[m]
i'm still mostly just a cog and not a machine, if you will
-
apotheon
I knew a guy who, the more he got into technology, the more he wanted to get away from urbanization, until he ended up keeping bees and raising cattle.
-
apotheon
. . . or maybe didn't *end* there. He eventually seemed to have dropped off the face of the earth.
-
orly_owl
maybe he died
-
pixelized[m]
that sort of describes where i seem to be headed
-
pixelized[m]
and i think it's a pattern that holds for a lot of other people as well these days? probably?
-
apotheon
orly_owl: I have no way of knowing at this point, I guess.
-
orly_owl
apotheon: check the obituraries i suppose
-
pixelized[m]
i do hope i'll keep my philosophy on this front reasonably nuanced though
-
orly_owl
not everyone has their death publishes though
-
orly_owl
*published
-
apotheon
I also knew a guy who was a fantastic, very in-demand, software engineer type. He helped create the ecosystem where he was pretty much the undisputed top consultant worldwide. He ended up getting a divorce and became a literal orthodox monk, but he still writes code for a living; he just gives (most of?) the money to the monastery.
-
lord_fomo[m]
<apotheon "I knew a guy who, the more he go"> the real machines
-
lord_fomo[m]
i think a balance of both is good
-
pixelized[m]
i agree
-
lord_fomo[m]
but learning puters is arguably harder
-
lord_fomo[m]
the tinkering has a much steeper learning curve
-
pixelized[m]
i think something people also tend to do too little now a days is look back at the past and see what and how humans did way back when
-
lord_fomo[m]
like any language
-
apotheon
I have old carbureted, air-cooled motorcycles, and I work on them myself. Does that count?
-
apotheon
(for balance)
-
apotheon
I use fountain pens and have a hand-wound pocket watch.
-
pixelized[m]
especially when people are trying to be more independent or change something about their own lives it's so often the case that people look towards some sort of tech gadget to achieve it for them
-
lord_fomo[m]
pixelized: i'd go further and say there's a class of peeps hoping you don't look
-
lord_fomo[m]
so they can pull the same tricks
-
orly_owl
apotheon: please dont go steampunk
-
lord_fomo[m]
because they got nothing else
-
apotheon
I'm very picky about the paper I use.
-
lord_fomo[m]
and definitely aren't creative
-
apotheon
I sometimes make my own butter, but I make it out of cream I buy at the supermarket.
-
pixelized[m]
as we go further into the future, less of what is done is actually done by human beings
-
pixelized[m]
so if you're trying to do something yourself, 'now' is definitely not always the best place to look for inspiration
-
apotheon
orly_owl: Nah, I'm more cyberpunk at heart.
-
pixelized[m]
hey apotheon i also use fountain pens
-
orly_owl
hrmmmmm
-
apotheon
have been for forty years
-
pixelized[m]
going to get myself a kaweco liliput soon, which i hope will last me a long time
-
as2333
pixelized[m], is your fountain pen connected to the net?
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: Cool. My favorite pens are a Platinum 3776 Century with soft-fine gold nib, an Esterbrook Estie with 1.1 stub nib, and a Platinum PRocyon with a fine nib.
-
pixelized[m]
yeah my fountain pen of choice is an IoT device from lamy with special spying and mind control features
-
as2333
pixelized[m], good. That shows you're not a terrorist.
-
apotheon
If a company was going to make an Internet Of Shit pen, it would probably be Lamy.
-
apotheon
s/pen/fountain pen/
-
pixelized[m]
hence the specific inclusion of the lamy brand there ;)
-
apotheon
yep
-
pixelized[m]
also: classy pens
-
apotheon
I'm not a fan of any pen that requires proprietary cartridges and converters, and Lamy is so into that shit that it can sometimes be difficult to make sure you're getting the right converter for your Lamy pen.
-
orly_owl
-
apotheon
I kinda hope Lamy falls in a ditch and breaks its neck. Your mileage may vary.
-
pixelized[m]
yeah it's really annoying, but lamy does make some pretty nice pens
-
pixelized[m]
i feel, at least
-
apotheon
Meanwhile, Platinum is the only Japanese major brand that allows use of standard international cartridges and converters. You just have to get a one dollar adapter.
-
apotheon
I've handled a couple Lamys that wrote rather well. They were a couple hundred bucks, plus the cost of professional nib adjustment, but they were nice writers.
-
apotheon
Safaris are overvalued. I can get better pens for half the price.
-
apotheon
I haven't bothered with Safaris enough to know about most of their pens, though, so I'm not really in a good position to judge which Safaris are really great.
-
apotheon
Finding out about the whole cartridge and converter situation was enough for me to just opt out entirely.
-
pixelized[m]
i'm not in a position to really make any qualified broad statements about any set of fountain pens ;P
-
apotheon
heh
-
pixelized[m]
i'm not that deep into them - just someone who likes to use them
-
apotheon
I tend to research the shit out of a pen before buying, unless it's under ten bucks.
-
pixelized[m]
that's very reasonable
-
pixelized[m]
best to research the shit out of a pen, you don't want it to arrive with shit still in there
-
apotheon
I wish I'd researched more before buying my first fountain pen. It turns out the Pilot Metropolitan is actually a crap pen. Don't believe all the positive reviews.
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: good point, re: shit
-
apotheon
Maybe I should sell fountain pens for Monero.
-
apotheon
(I might, actually, if OpenBazaar was still a thing.)
-
orly_owl
it died? :(
-
apotheon
last October, I think
-
apotheon
or maybe that was just the announcement
-
pixelized[m]
there seems to be some sort of an overlap between people who like using things they can fix themselves and people who like using monero
-
orly_owl
:(
-
apotheon
It was effectively last October, because I think that was the last significant update to the software.
-
pixelized[m]
so the set of prospective customers probably wouldn't even be that small
-
apotheon
I think maybe the official "we're out of business" moment was at the beginning of this year.
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: possibly
-
apotheon
I'm not interested enough in sysadmin work to run an online fountain pen shop right now.
-
orly_owl
there needs to be a marketplace where you can use monero
-
apotheon
other than a drug market
-
orly_owl
yes, other than that
-
pixelized[m]
on the topic of researching shit out of pens: i actually think my kaweco liliput investment will probably be quite bad in the 'money for writing experience' department, which is unfortunate
-
orly_owl
i mean you could sell pens on a darknet market
-
pixelized[m]
i just really like the size for carrying it with me, and the copper
-
apotheon
I'd actually love for there to be (bear with me now) both a general marketplace where you can spend Monero *and* a service that lets you spend BCH but converts it into Monero to deliver it to the merchant.
-
pixelized[m]
and it does allow you to replace nibs so i could probably improve on the feel
-
orly_owl
apotheon: sounds good
-
apotheon
. . . because I want to pay merchants with Monero, but I want to primarily use BCH at my end for "whitemarket" stuff so that I don't get associated in some NSA asshole's spreadsheet as "a Monero guy".
-
Quotes
NSA? Morono protects me.
-
apotheon
orly_owl: I don't want to end up in the dragnet roundup of the next darknet market for selling fountain pens.
-
orly_owl
loooool
-
kayront
embrace it apotheon and be proud
-
kayront
you thought criminal you
-
apotheon
There was some discussion last night of the idea of not sticking out like a sore thumb for the feds to hammer down.
-
apotheon
I found a merchant that sells all-natural wild game jerky and takes Monero. I was excited.
-
kayront
unless everyone pops like mushrooms and then they can't go after everyone
-
kayront
:D
-
apotheon
Then, I found out they only ship within the EU.
-
apotheon
damn
-
kayront
bitcoin maxi jerky you say
-
apotheon
err
-
orly_owl
apotheon: authority figures carry hammers, and try to see everything as a nail that needs to be hammered down
-
apotheon
right
-
apotheon
thus my point about the hammer and the sore thumb
-
apotheon
Actually, they see everything as a thumb that needs to be hammered down.
-
kayront
refuse to be tyrannized apotheon
-
orly_owl
best to look like something else, like a building
-
apotheon
"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a thumb."
-
orly_owl
lol
-
pixelized[m]
have any of you ever considered going homeless?
-
pixelized[m]
out of curiosity
-
apotheon
That's the Java equivalent of C++ jokes about blowing off your entire leg.
-
orly_owl
having a home is pretty useful
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: In the sense of moving into the woods with some swordsmith to live in a tent and be the swordsmith's apprentice for six years? Yeah, I considered it.
-
pixelized[m]
yeah, in that sense
-
kayront
not really pixelized[m], but some hoboing now and then can be nice
-
apotheon
In the sense of living on the street, begging for change and drinking strawberry wine with my proceeds? No.
-
pixelized[m]
i was referring more to the woods idea
-
kayront
be a hobo by choice, not necessity
-
kayront
this is the way
-
pixelized[m]
or the 'travelling some sort of continent by foot' idea
-
apotheon
In a way, I was homeless for a little bit, in that I slept on couches. That was transition from being a murderbot for the psychopaths to being a "libertarian".
-
pixelized[m]
well if you're going to be homeless, best to do it because you want to and not because you have to :P
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: Yeah, that has appealed to me.
-
apotheon
These days, I'd rather have a nice home away from the assholes, with a big enough plot of land to have a long-distance shooting range in my back yard and a big enough garage for all my hobbies, and occasionally live on the road with a motorcycle for months at a time.
-
kayront
house and bike paid for by monero ofc
-
apotheon
I also kinda plan to never actually sell a privacy coin. I'd rather just spend them (and receive them in payment, perhaps).
-
kayront
if that doesn't get the IRS knocking on your door, i don't know what will
-
apotheon
I say "a privacy coin" because it's not inconceivable that Monero will get replaced by something better.
-
apotheon
That something better just isn't anything else I've seen that people call a "privacy coin" so far, I think.
-
apotheon
kayront: I don't think I'm going to buy the house with Monero, but maybe I'll buy a motorcycle or two with Monero some day.
-
kayront
personally i have a big issue with the expression "privacy coin".. it implies that the default is transparency, and certainly until very recently in history that has not been the case
-
apotheon
I already have two bikes, though, and my current garage isn't big enough to add any more.
-
apotheon
kayront: How do I succinctly refer to them if not as "privacy coins", then?
-
pixelized[m]
by 'murderbot for the psychopaths' you mean... ? apotheon
-
lord_fomo[m]
anyone used?
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: My job used to be, in essence, "fall from the heavens to earth below and destroy things, an instrument of wrath" (i.e. US Army airborne infantry).
-
kayront
that's a good question apotheon. just felt like pointing out that by using the expression falls into the frame .. like fatf and their "anonymity-enhanced cryptocurrency (AEC)".. but is monero an AEC, or are all the others anonymity-deprived cryptocurrencies?
-
apotheon
It's not a job I recommend.
-
pixelized[m]
what do you guys reckon the likelihood is that a superior privacy coin will come to both exist and dominate monero in how much it's used?
-
pixelized[m]
apotheon: ghezus mate
-
apotheon
I learned a lot, but there are better ways to learn such things, and that was basically the only real benefit.
-
pixelized[m]
understandable thing to get into
-
apotheon
pixelized[m]: I think the likelihood is very high, but I think it'll be quite a while in the grand scale of cryptocurrencies so far.
-
pixelized[m]
but i can't imagine dropping bombs can feel very fulfilling for a long time
-
kayront
unless you're brad lea
-
kayront
(lol it's a podcast)
-
apotheon
Oh, I didn't drop bombs. I was the bomb, in a way. I used a rifle and a parachute.
-
pixelized[m]
sounds much worse or slightly better depending on how you look at it
-
apotheon
When people find out I'm a veteran they say stuff like "Thank you for your service." I always find myself having to hold back the impulse to say "I'm sorry."
-
apotheon
. . . because it's not serving the interests of anyone good.
-
pixelized[m]
if such a coin is to come along and slay monero, what do you reckon its biggest selling point will probably be?
-
apotheon
If I'd known then what I know now, I would have avoided the shit out of it on ethical grounds.
-
kayront
the idea is a noble one apotheon, imo, but clearly US foreign policy over the last decades has been anything but noble in general
-
pixelized[m]
and do you think the noethers would give up working on monero in favor of that other coin?
-
pixelized[m]
yeah the idea of 'protecting your country' is certainly noble and somewhat altruistic but it's so rare for soldiers to actually be in the business of defending their fellow man
-
apotheon
As infantry, you'd have to confront the consequences of your actions much more closely, and it'd feel less "clean", but the consequences for others are far less dire when you have a rifle instead of bombs dropped from the sky.
-
apotheon
At least, as an infantryman, I could be selective in who I killed . . . if I killed.
-
apotheon
I'm pretty sure I never killed anyone, and I'm grateful to have escaped that.
-
as2333
kayront, lawl - US 'foreign policy' has been wholly criminal since 1776
-
apotheon
kayront: I think US military policy has been utter shit, generally, since at the latest the mid-19th century.
-
kayront
that's maybe a bit of a stretch as2333
-
kayront
:p
-
apotheon
I think the last US President term in office that wasn't a net negative might've been Grover Cleveland's first term.
-
as2333
kayront, look it up
-
apotheon
The military parts of US foreign policy at least might have been wholly criminal since the US Constitution, but I don't know for sure.
-
apotheon
I'm just pretty much entirely sure it has been shit since the Civil War.
-
apotheon
I don't feel a burning need to look into it deeply enough before that to be sure.
-
kayront
which does beg the question then apotheon
-
apotheon
I'm pretty sure it has been at least *partly* shit ever since the US Constitution's ratification, though.
-
kayront
howcome you joined the army_
-
apotheon
General Stupidity, Private Reasons, and a Colonel Of Good Intentions
-
as2333
see "War is a racket for instance"
-
as2333
"war is a racket"
-
apotheon
I was less knowledgeable about the sheer level of shittiness.
-
apotheon
Oh, the subject of war is great. Here's my definition of war:
-
apotheon
War is powerful people sending powerless people to kill other powerless people for what other powerful people did.
-
apotheon
The proper way to deal with the kinds of things that seem like justification for a "just war" is not war.
-
kayront
well, good thing you managed to escape it all unscathed
-
apotheon
kayront: mostly unscathed, yeah
-
apotheon
I don't have murder on my conscience, I only have a couple lingering internal scar tissue issues, and so on.
-
apotheon
If someone wanted me to go assassinate a tyrannical dictator (and I felt up to it in skills and preparation), fine. I have no qualms about that shit. Fuck that guy.
-
apotheon
If someone wanted to send me to kill other soldiers as part of an organized war campaign, though . . . fuck no. I'm a conscientious objector these days.
-
apotheon
I'm also too old for them to pull back in, now, so there's that.
-
apotheon
Use Monero. Undermine the tax regime that pays the war machine.
-
kayront
pump MDMA into the water supply
-
kayront
the end of all wars. guaranteed
-
kayront
:D
-
as2333
until iy wears off atleast
-
lord_fomo[m]
<kayront "pump MDMA into the water supply"> and turn up da beatz
-
kayront
maybe 4 hours in heaven is enough to change some perspectives forever
-
lord_fomo[m]
imo
-
kayront
it does for many people
-
lord_fomo[m]
biggest problem is boring people who are too serious
-
apotheon
I don't want any MDMA, thanks.
-
lord_fomo[m]
their the ones that ruin everything
-
lord_fomo[m]
square boi
-
apotheon
Then again, I distill my water. There's too much shit in tap water, even near the mountains in Colorado.
-
kayront
haha
-
lord_fomo[m]
oh you in CO eh?
-
lord_fomo[m]
hawwt
-
apotheon
I don't need to meet my USRDA of lead.
-
kayront
but apotheon .. it's MDMA paid for by monero! do your part! adoption!
-
apotheon
lord_fomo[m]: yep
-
lord_fomo[m]
i climbed long's peak couple years ago
-
lord_fomo[m]
and kelso ridge
-
lord_fomo[m]
you live in heaven
-
apotheon
I haven't done any serious climbing out here. I've done no better than Horsetooth Rock.
-
lord_fomo[m]
old man mountain
-
lord_fomo[m]
you ever been there?
-
lord_fomo[m]
that one is just a native holy site
-
lord_fomo[m]
go up there
-
lord_fomo[m]
pap the M
-
lord_fomo[m]
and just be
-
apotheon
I love that CO was one of the first places in the US to legalize pot for recreational use, but I hate that I have to occasionally smell it while going for a walk.
-
lord_fomo[m]
and psybin
-
apotheon
lord_fomo[m]: No, I haven't been there. I should plot a course to it by motorcycle soon.
-
lord_fomo[m]
CO is best place in USA imo
-
lord_fomo[m]
old man mountain is so far my favorite view ever
-
apotheon
I'm actually thinking of moving to MT. CO's laws are getting too stupid.
-
apotheon
I might have to use KS as a layover point, though.
-
lord_fomo[m]
actually pretty sure the thing is to fast a day and stay over night on top
-
apotheon
I'll try it without fasting first, so I know what I'm getting into.
-
lord_fomo[m]
wat laws
-
lord_fomo[m]
lol
-
lord_fomo[m]
you gotta do something
-
lord_fomo[m]
do some kratom
-
lord_fomo[m]
or shroomz
-
apotheon
magazine capacity limits, red flag law, new bullshit around specific storage laws . . .
-
lord_fomo[m]
ahh gunz
-
lord_fomo[m]
i always forget CO is truly the most open minded state
-
lord_fomo[m]
it has both sides, free as ever
-
apotheon
I don't recall whether my county finally did away with the CCW registry, but it doesn't much matter because I had my permit before the registry would've gone away, so I'm on record anyway.
-
apotheon
It's getting less and less open minded about firearms.
-
lord_fomo[m]
well
-
kayront
i, fo r
-
lord_fomo[m]
i mean, there are bad peeps
-
apotheon
It's getting so bad Weld County (not my county) is trying to secede and join Wyoming.
-
kayront
i, for one, would like to own a panzerfaust
-
apotheon
If that happened, I might actually just stay in CO.
-
apotheon
kayront: I want a panzerfaust!
-
lord_fomo[m]
so wack
-
lord_fomo[m]
i think ur the first faster i know that's into gunz
-
apotheon
I also want a Mk 19.
-
lord_fomo[m]
😂
-
lord_fomo[m]
this gui cucks
-
apotheon
I have no idea what emoji you stuck in there.
-
pixelized[m]
<lord_fomo[m] "i think ur the first faster i kn"> made me chuckle
-
kayront
-
lord_fomo[m]
lel
-
kayront
just chillin'
-
kayront
with a panzerfaust
-
lord_fomo[m]
i think we need to go back to a city state system
-
lord_fomo[m]
personally
-
apotheon
I haven't found a good enough Unicode monospace font.
-
lord_fomo[m]
this whole globalism thing clearly isn't workin
-
lord_fomo[m]
stupid thatcher
-
lord_fomo[m]
gd tinas
-
apotheon
Calling me a "faster" just reminded me of some military slang.
-
lord_fomo[m]
with crypto, city states should be easier to implement then ever
-
lord_fomo[m]
then we can have machine gun town, and flaming orgies-ville
-
apotheon
"go faster" or "Johnny Go Faster", depending on whether it's an adjective or a noun
-
lord_fomo[m]
and i can buy beef in one and shells in the other
-
apotheon
e.g. some special glasses frames one could get at US Cav were often called "go faster glasses"
-
apotheon
18:17 < lord_fomo[m]> this whole globalism thing clearly isn't workin
-
apotheon
depends on your goals
-
apotheon
If you have shitty goals, it might be working fine.
-
apotheon
18:17 < lord_fomo[m]> with crypto, city states should be easier to implement then ever
-
apotheon
Screw that. I want panarchism.
-
apotheon
Your "state" shouldn't be geographical.
-
lord_fomo[m]
yah, if you're super boring, want to own a bunch of empty mansions, do nothing useful for humanity, and be forgotten in 100 years.
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's perfect for you
-
apotheon
or remembered as a villain
-
apotheon
think Bill Gates
-
lord_fomo[m]
news flash: today's rich are the most useless people on the planet
-
lord_fomo[m]
they literally do nothing of value
-
apotheon
People joke about Elon Musk being a Bond villain, but really that's Bill.
-
lord_fomo[m]
elon is fine
-
lord_fomo[m]
but he's mostly pump boi
-
apotheon
Elon might be doing some useful things.
-
lord_fomo[m]
an edison
-
lord_fomo[m]
he's no starving tesla
-
apotheon
right
-
lord_fomo[m]
smh
-
lord_fomo[m]
tinas have no clue
-
lord_fomo[m]
they get fed the pop tunes from the radio and think that's what music is
-
apotheon
He doesn't strike me as the type who would fuck over a Tesla (the person).
-
lord_fomo[m]
puters in pigz brainz = "da future"
-
apotheon
. . . so he's better than Tom Eddy that way.
-
lord_fomo[m]
not sure
-
lord_fomo[m]
i would hope so
-
lord_fomo[m]
i think it's weird he's not trying to solve our real problems
-
lord_fomo[m]
and instead is worried about getting off the planet
-
apotheon
Maybe getting off-planet would solve our real problems.
-
apotheon
Too much statism? Go to Mars!
-
lord_fomo[m]
ok there elesium
-
lord_fomo[m]
or wtv tf
-
apotheon
Elysium the movie?
-
lord_fomo[m]
yah
-
apotheon
That's a terrible movie.
-
lord_fomo[m]
eleeeziiiumm
-
apotheon
Someone has never heard of "economics".
-
lord_fomo[m]
oh right
-
lord_fomo[m]
cuz that works well
-
lord_fomo[m]
"economics"
-
lord_fomo[m]
about the only thing they have is the double-auction model
-
lord_fomo[m]
nothing else works
-
apotheon
Elysium itself, in the movie, wouldn't actually work -- and the "plan" to bring Elysium's riches to everyone wouldn't work, either.
-
lord_fomo[m]
ah
-
lord_fomo[m]
right, i honestly fell asleep for that flick
-
apotheon
I'm talking about economics in the sense of "how economies work", not in the sense of "economists sell out to the state and justify horrors".
-
lord_fomo[m]
i mean
-
lord_fomo[m]
how do "they work"
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's always changing
-
lord_fomo[m]
hold up
-
lord_fomo[m]
the latest crockery coming up
-
as2333
apotheon, I'd say musk is a figurehead for the MIC
-
apotheon
I might be labelling myself here, in a way, but . . . the Austrian school of economics seems much more reasonable than anything more popular. It actually gave rise to the insight of the economic calculation problem -- which governments just blatantly ignore every day, thus the reason everything's fucked up.
-
kayront
one of the reasons, anyway
-
apotheon
as2333: MIC?
-
apotheon
kayront: sure
-
apotheon
probably the biggest
-
as2333
military industrial complex
-
ferox_thinkpad
another reason is greedy whitey
-
ferox_thinkpad
hoarding all the wealth and resources
-
ferox_thinkpad
us poc never get any
-
kayront
yeah, no
-
apotheon
Most of the failures of economic management follow from the missing understanding of the economic calculation problem.
-
apotheon
gotta go AFK for a bit
-
apotheon
ta
-
kayront
same here
-
lord_fomo[m]
ahhh yee found it
-
kayront
later soldier!
-
lord_fomo[m]
right from the donkey's mouth
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
look at this advanced theory
-
lord_fomo[m]
> In a cashless world, there would be no lower bound on interest rates. A central bank could reduce the policy rate from, say, 2 percent to minus 4 percent to counter a severe recession. The interest rate cut would transmit to bank deposits, loans, and bonds. Without cash, depositors would have to pay the negative interest rate to keep their money with the bank, making consumption and investment more attractive. This
-
lord_fomo[m]
would jolt lending, boost demand, and stimulate the economy.
-
lord_fomo[m]
"imagine we just kept doing what we're doing"
-
lord_fomo[m]
> One option to break through the zero lower bound would be to phase out cash. But that is not straightforward. Cash continues to play a significant role in payments in many countries. To get around this problem, in a recent IMF staff study and previous research, we examine a proposal for central banks to make cash as costly as bank deposits with negative interest rates, thereby making deeply negative interest rates
-
lord_fomo[m]
feasible while preserving the role of cash.
-
lord_fomo[m]
> The proposal is for a central bank to divide the monetary base into two separate local currencies—cash and electronic money (e-money). E-money would be issued only electronically and would pay the policy rate of interest, and cash would have an exchange rate—the conversion rate—against e-money. This conversion rate is key to the proposal. When setting a negative interest rate on e-money, the central bank would le
-
lord_fomo[m]
conversion rate of cash in terms of e-money depreciate at the same rate as the negative interest rate on e-money. The value of cash would thereby fall in terms of e-money.
-
as2333
lord_fomo[m], hilarious garbage
-
lord_fomo[m]
they're literally so un-creative it's embarrasing
-
as2333
hehe
-
lord_fomo[m]
and so obsessed with maintaining existing power structures
-
lord_fomo[m]
these are the people providing the tina narrative
-
lord_fomo[m]
they should be outright ignored
-
lord_fomo[m]
they're a bunch of hacks
-
lord_fomo[m]
plain and simple
-
lord_fomo[m]
all they understand is small-minded centralism
-
lord_fomo[m]
because they never wrote code
-
lord_fomo[m]
buncha cowards imo
-
as2333
well, computers lend themselves to centralization too.
-
lord_fomo[m]
so
-
lord_fomo[m]
they also don't
-
lord_fomo[m]
what's ur point
-
as2333
as a matter of fact the current shitshow is all about putting everything in the NSA datacenter.
-
lord_fomo[m]
who really needs to get called out are all the nerds who do this for a living
-
lord_fomo[m]
they need to be exciled
-
lord_fomo[m]
without them the dumbass overloads can't do shit
-
lord_fomo[m]
evil nerds imo are the main problem
-
lord_fomo[m]
people too afraid to live for freedom and themselves
-
gwohl[m]
<as2333 "well, computers lend themselves "> false, they're nodes in and of themselves. only the information held within is centralized.
-
as2333
I mean, "writing code" doesn't necessarily get you to appreciate decentralization. Just that side note. .
-
lord_fomo[m]
obviously i mean concurrency
-
lord_fomo[m]
principle of charity guis
-
lord_fomo[m]
cmon
-
lord_fomo[m]
the whole gawd damn money system can be viewed as a conc problem
-
lord_fomo[m]
$$ is a semaphore for access to resources
-
as2333
lord_fomo[m], indeed - the evil nerds are mercenaries
-
lord_fomo[m]
all these cucks think about is nobel prizes and names on buildings
-
lord_fomo[m]
afaict
-
lord_fomo[m]
centralism stops as soon as the minions say no
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's real simple
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's just yet another consensus problem
-
lord_fomo[m]
why $crypto hasn't first focussed on voting tech is beyond me
-
lord_fomo[m]
that's our obvious pertinent problem
-
as2333
gwohl[m], it seems kinda self-evident that centralization and control of all information is done using computers. Looking at the equipment in the racks as 'ndoes' doesn't change much.
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's about state coherency imo
-
lord_fomo[m]
that's why actor model theory existss
-
lord_fomo[m]
* that's why actor model theory exists
-
lord_fomo[m]
stop trying to grok all the state, the uni is big, it can't be done
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Hi there everyone
-
somethingUniqueR
Howdy partner
-
» lord_fomo[m] resets mood
-
MoonKhatt[m]
I'm a big supporter of MONERO
-
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Getting fed up of all crypto supposed to be decentralized when all our banks are connected to exchanges
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's almost like they want you to go all in a digital currency 😉
-
lord_fomo[m]
<lord_fomo[m] "> In a cashless world, there wou"> right?
-
MoonKhatt[m]
LOL @Lord_Fomo
-
lord_fomo[m]
wait, it has fOaTInG PoINt?
-
MoonKhatt[m]
I know, that's why I'm accumulating as much XMR and shilling it to all my friends
-
lord_fomo[m]
then ur in the right place i think
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Centralized banks suck.
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Fiat is worthless
-
ieatglueinthegul
Bro just print more money bro
-
lord_fomo[m]
tell that to my massager person
-
lord_fomo[m]
and my gardener
-
MoonKhatt[m]
But exchanges are practically Centralized if we pay tax if we cash to Fiat
-
lord_fomo[m]
see how we need a wiki on how to get to xmr using your privates
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Hey, I take crypto as payment for a few years now.
-
MoonKhatt[m]
I was even talking to the Marijuana stores here in LA
-
MoonKhatt[m]
About XMR
-
MoonKhatt[m]
But Feds are regulating those stores
-
apotheon
lord_fomo[m]: That quote about enabling negative interest rates is, in a nutshell, exactly the same as A Modest Proposal.
-
MoonKhatt[m]
😆
-
lord_fomo[m]
link
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Can you please help me out by subscribing to my YouTube channel
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Am I allowed to post my channel link
-
lord_fomo[m]
ugh
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
apotheon
MoonKhatt[m]: Why would I want to subscribe to your YouTube channel?
-
apotheon
That's a serious question. Is there something about it I'd like?
-
lord_fomo[m]
see the edison speak
-
lord_fomo[m]
> R1: Enhanced digital efficiency (if launched to support digitalisation): The digital euro should keep pace with state-of-the-art technology at all times in order to best address the needs of the market as regards, among other attributes, usability, convenience, speed, cost efficiency and programmability. It should be made available through standard interoperable front-end solutions throughout the entire euro area and
-
lord_fomo[m]
should be interoperable with private payment solution
-
apotheon
(I haven't read all the backscroll from when I was AFK, so I have no idea whether this was already explained.)
-
lord_fomo[m]
squawk sqawk english words about tech that say nothing
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Because I need about 55 subscribers to get monetized. I'm a Scottish chick living in LA
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Please
-
lord_fomo[m]
programmability
-
lord_fomo[m]
that's a word right?
-
MoonKhatt[m]
BRB
-
lord_fomo[m]
i dunno ask the devs
-
lord_fomo[m]
ohhhh
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
programmability
-
MoonKhatt[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
this is the people running central banks
-
lord_fomo[m]
literally tech idiots
-
MoonKhatt[m]
My channel is UGP Crypto Vlogs
-
lord_fomo[m]
shillin google services i don't think is as much allowed Mooner
-
lord_fomo[m]
* shillin google services i don't think is as much allowed 🌙MoonKhatt🚀
-
lord_fomo[m]
moreso the shillin xmr
-
ieatglueinthegul
Youtube is an evil platform, it should not be promoted or even tolerated
-
apotheon
18:34 < lord_fomo[m]> evil nerds imo are the main problem
-
lord_fomo[m]
yah
-
lord_fomo[m]
like if you were going to fix it
-
MoonKhatt[m]
I know, Google sucks. I've been trying to deGoogle my Android and it's hard to live without my iPhone 🤦🏼♀️
-
lord_fomo[m]
pull them out (or recruit them to the freedom side) and the whole thing topples
-
apotheon
"A nuke_baghdad() function is immoral. It should be nuke_city() and take 'Baghdad' as a parameter."
-
lord_fomo[m]
since, as mentioned, the people with the power are basically useless
-
lord_fomo[m]
they have zero actual skillz
-
lord_fomo[m]
just really good at shilling
-
Elementoshi[m]
<MoonKhatt[m] "Because I need about 55 subscrib"> Is your channel relevant to Monero?
-
MoonKhatt[m]
I'm trying to switch over to LBRY but getting time
-
lord_fomo[m]
and spending money
-
MoonKhatt[m]
I'm shilling MONERO yep
-
ieatglueinthegul
<MoonKhatt[m] "I know, Google sucks. I've been "> You aren't even trying then
-
Elementoshi[m]
Ooh what's your LBRY channel? I can subscribe to that
-
lord_fomo[m]
<apotheon ""A nuke_baghdad() function is im"> dis
-
apotheon
18:36 < lord_fomo[m]> why $crypto hasn't first focussed on voting tech is beyond me
-
ieatglueinthegul
<lord_fomo[m] "they have zero actual skillz"> Yeah, the bar is pathetically low
-
MoonKhatt[m]
I plan on having Tshirts made and car license frames etc
-
lord_fomo[m]
makes sense $crypto came out of foss
-
lord_fomo[m]
that's where all the skillz are
-
apotheon
You can't fix voting as a way to run society short of making it depend on 100% perfect consensus, and making it arbitrarily revocable.
-
MoonKhatt[m]
I'm working in LBRY channel.
-
lord_fomo[m]
notice you hear nothing of a pump around foss or fair voting systems in the media
-
lord_fomo[m]
it's almost as if that would be bad for the useless types
-
lord_fomo[m]
if the tinas knew
-
Elementoshi[m]
<ieatglueinthegul "You aren't even trying then"> No gatekeeping, some people are stuck with Google more than others
-
apotheon
MoonKhatt[m]: I don't know how others feel, but I'd be fine with shilling Monero on YouTube as an excuse for sharing your channel here.
-
Elementoshi[m]
> <@ieatglueforbreakfast:halogen.city> You aren't even trying then
-
Elementoshi[m]
* Gatekeeping isn't cool IMO, some people are stuck with Google more than others
-
Elementoshi[m]
🌙MoonKhatt🚀 have you looked into LineageOS or GrapheneOS for a Google free Android?
-
MoonKhatt[m]
You guys heard of the Hated One?
-
apotheon
MoonKhatt[m]: Let's make it explicit:
-
lord_fomo[m]
<apotheon "You can't fix voting as a way to"> voting systems are a field of active research
-
apotheon
MoonKhatt[m]: What's your channel? I'd like to see it.
-
lord_fomo[m]
look how much of it is being tested / implemented
-
apotheon
lord_fomo[m]: I know they are.
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Awh thank you ❤
-
lord_fomo[m]
hell, even mentioned
-
apotheon
lord_fomo[m]: The problem is imagining that we can solve problems by applying a majority opinion.
-
lord_fomo[m]
then why you discounting something that hasn't had a chance
-
lord_fomo[m]
you don't need 100% concensus
-
MoonKhatt[m]
UGP Crypto Vlogs
-
lord_fomo[m]
never said that
-
apotheon
MoonKhatt[m]: Now you answer my question with a link.
-
lord_fomo[m]
pretty sure i just said city states a big back
-
lord_fomo[m]
which is def not that
-
MoonKhatt[m]
UGP stands for UberGirl Paula
-
apotheon
Is UGP Crypto Vlogs the name of it?
-
lord_fomo[m]
* pretty sure i just said city states a bit back
-
apotheon
I'll look it up.
-
Elementoshi[m]
I can't subscribe, but I might download your Youtube videos in case they get taken down for some reason
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Yes, That's my channel name
-
apotheon
lord_fomo[m]: I'm for non-geographical associations rather than geographical.
-
» Elementoshi[m] doesn't have a Google account and is proud of it
-
lord_fomo[m]
apotheon: of course
-
apotheon
Geographical associations with their own rules can more easily tyrannize.
-
MoonKhatt[m]
You guys are awesome. Much appreciated for that.
-
apotheon
City-states are an improvement, but don't solve the problem.
-
lord_fomo[m]
"digital city states" then
-
lord_fomo[m]
i mean why not
-
apotheon
sure
-
lord_fomo[m]
not saying i have the answer (yet)
-
apotheon
or virtual
-
lord_fomo[m]
but peeps should be thinking about this
-
apotheon
Throw in the word "virtual", and I'm more on-board.
-
apotheon
q.v. panarchism
-
MoonKhatt[m]
There's a video of me in my bath tub where I show deGoogle my Android 😆
-
apotheon
It doesn't even have to be digital, though.
-
apotheon
The thing about panarchism is that you can change memberships just by deciding to do it. You don't have to move.
-
ferox_thinkpad
how do we implement fair redistribution in the monero blockchain
-
ferox_thinkpad
i.e. % per tx going to black causes
-
MoonKhatt[m]
What I'm terrified of is the grids going down all at once
-
MoonKhatt[m]
How would we access digital currency
-
apotheon
ferox_thinkpad: found a nonprofit initiative of some kind
-
as2333
MoonKhatt[m], link?
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Brb
-
apotheon
MoonKhatt[m]: We need more work on mesh networks and more shielded electronics.
-
lord_fomo[m]
apotheon: are you sure it shouldn't be digital
-
-
apotheon
lord_fomo[m]: What if someone's panarchic association is run via voice over short wave radio?
-
Elementoshi[m]
<MoonKhatt[m] "How would we access digital curr"> I think it would be cool if there were a cryptocurrency optimized for sneakernet networking
-
as2333
the problem is not the 'grid going down' - the problem is that the arpanet was created and is owned by the enemy
-
lord_fomo[m]
so hawt
-
lord_fomo[m]
i wish i knew more about da hams
-
apotheon
lord_fomo[m]: I'm not saying none of it should be digitally administered -- just that we shouldn't assume everything will be digital.
-
MoonKhatt[m]
-
lord_fomo[m]
yah was just trolling
-
apotheon
BACK UNDER YOUR BRIDGE
-
Elementoshi[m]
Can you run a Monero network and make transactions over a sneakernet?
-
lord_fomo[m]
but ma meme didn't work
-
apotheon
sure
-
as2333
MoonKhatt[m], link to the video? sorry I'm not browsing jewtube =)
-
apotheon
slowly
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Trolling UGP?
-
lord_fomo[m]
apotheon: i just wanna surf with you bruh
-
lord_fomo[m]
through dat netz
-
MoonKhatt[m]
Brb
-
apotheon
You could conceivably use guerilla shortwave radio to transmit transaction data to a passive listener that is, in turn, connected to a computer that translates the message into the Monero protocol and sends it across the internet, too.
-
Elementoshi[m]
> jewtube
-
Elementoshi[m]
yo that's kinda bigoted
-
MoonKhatt[m]
-
apotheon
Elementoshi[m]: Who said that?
-
apotheon
I missed it.
-
apotheon
Oh, as2333 . . .
-
Elementoshi[m]
* > jewtube
-
Elementoshi[m]
yo that's kinda bigoted
-
apotheon
I should've guessed.
-
Elementoshi[m]
It's kinda ironic that racists and alt-right people are using Monero, a global currency that anybody can use
-
apotheon
yep
-
Elementoshi[m]
I sometimes wonder how they feel about the fact that the minorities they hate so much for their skin color can also use Monero if they want to.
-
Elementoshi[m]
-
apotheon
MoonKhatt[m]: Do you have a link directly to a Monero-related video of yours?
-
ferox_thinkpad
cool it with the anti-semitic remarks
-
apotheon
ferox_thinkpad: as2333 already left, and was the only person I noticed with an antisemitic remark
-
ferox_thinkpad
i was just kidding anyway
-
apotheon
okay
-
somethingUniqueR
.val 0.008469 xmr
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: ≈$2.273 • ≈ value of: 0.008469 XMR • Source: cmc/ccc/altm
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Would you guys prefer if I had less a's in my name
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
What is the optimal amount of a's
-
pixelized[m]
7
-
pixelized[m]
i would really prefer that
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
I like 12 though
-
apotheon
12 isn't a power of 2. Maybe you should reduce it to a power of 2.
-
apotheon
(Once we get it down to 8, we can request a reduction to a prime number.)
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
12 is easy for me to remember I just press the letter a in 4 keystrokes 3 different times
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
7 is an odd number it would be harder to remember
-
apotheon
Make it two keystrokes three different times. That'd be even easier.
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
That would be 6 though
-
apotheon
sure
-
apotheon
I'm fine with six.
-
aaaaaaaaaaaa
Is that enough a's to be noticeable as a unique username
-
apotheon
probably
-
apotheon
try it
-
aaaaaa
That nickname is registered
-
apotheon
damn
-
apotheon
Try one more.
-
aaaaaaaaa
9 a's
-
aaaaaaaaa
Is this good?
-
apotheon
"better"
-
aaaaaaaaa
Will people think I am different from 12 a's though? Like im a different person because I only have 9 a's?
-
apotheon
no
-
apotheon
probably not
-
aaaaaaaaa
Okay I can work with 9 a's
-
aaaaaaaaa
Now can someone unban me from Monero-pools
-
apotheon
We can work on your naming skils later.
-
apotheon
I don't have that power.
-
apotheon
Also, you probably need to fix your connection stability issue to ensure you don't get banned again.
-
aaaaaaaaa
I have had unique usernames in the past but I found out if you have all a's people can't google your username and dox you
-
apotheon
The 12-a issue only exacerbates it; it isn't the whole cause of the issue.
-
aaaaaaaaa
Not sure what that is honestly I left my laptop idling all night mining Monero and it keeps dropping connection
-
apotheon
What about gfedcba?
-
apotheon
It's just abcdefg backward.
-
aaaaaaaaa
Already sounds too unique
-
aaaaaaaaa
Maybe I should just steal some corporate name
-
aaaaaaaaa
"Coca-cola"
-
apotheon
What about pewdiepie?
-
apotheon
That's not unique. Someone else uses it on YouTube.
-
ProjectEpsilon
MicroAppleColasoft
-
aaaaaaaaa
That would work but I think people would be more worried about me having that name than 12 a's
-
apotheon
ProjectEpsilon: nice
-
apotheon
pewdiecake
-
aaaaaaaaa
"Shell gasoline"
-
aaaaaaaaa
What do you guys do to transfer personal wallet addresses between devices
-
aaaaaaaaa
Like to send Monero to yourself or to set up a mining rig
-
Elementoshi[m]
QR codes, KDE Connect, and SSH are what I usually use
-
Elementoshi[m]
If you use Signal on a phone and a desktop you can use the Note To Self feature
-
aaaaaaaaa
Yeah I've been using signal or emails to myself via proton mail
-
ooka_ren[m]
<Elementoshi[m] "QR codes, KDE Connect, and SSH a"> >QR codes
-
Elementoshi[m]
Are your Proton emails to yourself encrypted?
-
aaaaaaaaa
Not sure, does it default to encrypted when sent to self?
-
aaaaaaaaa
Part of the reason why im asking
-
aaaaaaaaa
I feel that is not a safe way to do it
-
-
aaaaaaaaa
Yes its E2E
-
aaaaaaaaa
When sent to self
-
Elementoshi[m]
Oh sweet
-
Elementoshi[m]
I jsut wish I didn't have to pay for Protonmail in order to use an external client.
-
Elementoshi[m]
Maybe I'll try Protonmail out one of these days
-
ooka_ren[m]
<Elementoshi[m] "> <@ooka_ren:tchncs.de> >QR code"> i just think that every big system that can do many task is insecure.
-
ooka_ren[m]
> <@copenhagen_bram:matrix.org> What are your concerns with KDE Connect's security?
-
ooka_ren[m]
* i just think that every big system that can do many tasks is insecure.
-
aaaaaaaaa
I'm thinking of buying a mining rig for Monero which is why im asking not sure if ill be able to access proton mail on it
-
ooka_ren[m]
like when devs creating new shit instead of polishing one thing
-
aaaaaaaaa
Might just run Xmrig off a command line or something idk
-
ooka_ren[m]
if you want to sync files, use unison
-
aaaaaaaaa
I'm just curious and trying to figure this stuff out im new to cl interfaces and stuff
-
Elementoshi[m]
<ooka_ren[m] "i just think that every big syst"> I have to agree with you a little bit about KDE Connect's insecurity because of one incident that happened. I was using the Tor Browser on a website that asked permission to send notifications to the browser. When it sent a notification, I got the same notification on my phone. Now that was a little spooky.
-
Elementoshi[m]
Something to watch out for anyone else who happens to use KDE Connect and Tor at the same time.
-
Elementoshi[m]
<aaaaaaaaa "I'm just curious and trying to f"> If you pay for ProtonMail and use a CLI email interface like alpine or mutt or something, it might work
-
Elementoshi[m]
-
aaaaaaaaa
Thanks ill try unison if that doesn't work ill try proton mail
-
apotheon
aaaaaaaaa: I use SSH/SCP for sharing a single file, generally.
-
apotheon
I occasionally use sshfs for cases where it makes sense.
-
aaaaaaaaa
That works for computers connected to the same network I assume?
-
apotheon
yep
-
aaaaaaaaa
Ok thanks sorry I'm super new to all this stuff I've only played around with like Debian servers before but nothing really significant
-
apotheon
It can also work across the internet, as long as the remote system is accessible (whether via port forwarding, or whatever).
-
apotheon
I quite like scp for one-off file transfers.
-
aaaaaaaaa
Yeah I think I would connect to Debian servers via ssh but that was a few years ago so I might be confused
-
apotheon
Debian comes with OpenSSH by default.
-
apotheon
. . . which includes ssh, scp, and sftp commands.
-
apotheon
(unless the core devs decided to fuck up Debian so badly it no longer comes with OpenSSH, but I doubt that)
-
angrymonkeyboi[m
Do we have to use Chrome in order to use Trezor? I get a WebUSB error in firefox
-
lord_fomo[m]
> When it sent a notification, I got the same notification on my phone. Now that was a little spooky.
-
lord_fomo[m]
it might relay dbus events
-
apotheon
If you have to use Chrome with Trezor . . . that seems bad.
-
Elementoshi[m]
To use Firefox with Trezor, you have to install Trezor Bridge. Then it works just fine with Firefox
-
Elementoshi[m]
Source: Have used Trezor in Firefox
-
Elementoshi[m]
But Trezor's online client doesn't have Monero
-
Elementoshi[m]
Monero's official GUI and CLI both support Trezor, however.
-
apotheon
ah, useful information
-
Elementoshi[m]
Yes. Monero, however, isn't supported by the cheaper of the Trezors with the buttons. Unfortunately, you have to get the premium Trezor device, the Trezor T or whatever, that has a touch screen and costs $150 or something
-
Elementoshi[m]
And you can't buy it with Monero, you have to buy it with bitcoin or a credit card.
-
apotheon
lamesauce
-
Elementoshi[m]
ikr
-
apotheon
You could buy it with Monero from a third party, I suppose.
-
apotheon
"Hey, buy this with BTC, then sell it to me for Monero! That's how you can turn BTC into Monero without a KYC exchange."
-
apotheon
there you go
-
apotheon
There should be a "Monero Proxy" site like the localmonero sites.
-
Elementoshi[m]
You could, but how could you guarantee that third party hasn't hacked the Trezor to steal your crypto?
-
apotheon
. . . or maybe the localmonero sites would work for that. I'm not sure.
-
apotheon
My usual experience is that there's nobody local to me on localmonero.
-
Elementoshi[m]
Yeah, use a XMR to BTC exchanger
-
apotheon
Elementoshi[m]: Maybe look over his shoulder.
-
Elementoshi[m]
I think Monerujo has sideshift dot ai or something built in
-
apotheon
Elementoshi[m]: How would you guarantee Trezor doesn't have something sketchy in there?
-
apotheon
hmm
-
apotheon
I should check whether that's true of Monerujo.
-
apotheon
Elementoshi[m]: You seem to know stuff about Monero wallets and so on. Can you tell me your thoughts on Monerujo vs. Cake?
-
aaaaaaaaa
You can use local Monero for cash by mail
-
aaaaaaaaa
Or use bisq
-
aaaaaaaaa
Use Zelle
-
Elementoshi[m]
Or use Haveno when the project matures
-
gustavltz[m]
hello guys
-
apotheon
I'm not too keen on cash-mail-order stuff.
-
Elementoshi[m]
-
Elementoshi[m]
> How would you guarantee Trezor doesn't have something sketchy in there?
-
aaaaaaaaa
wtf
-
aaaaaaaaa
Just drops connection mid sentence
-
Elementoshi[m]
Nothing is 100% secure, I have indeed worried a little about whether Trezor Inc could be compromised
-
gustavltz[m]
watatatatatatataazdfuckkkkk
-
aaaaaaaaa
I'm literally on a video chat meeting but the connection from that didn't drop
-
aaaaaaaaa
Weird
-
apotheon
I'm not even sure sending nontrivial cash via USPS is legal.
-
aaaaaaaaa
Well
-
gustavltz[m]
jkhdcykydhvyjkfdhvjkyöfjygxhvjygljgvjhyxgfldy
-
aaaaaaaaa
BTC atm
-
apotheon
aaaaaaaaa: Maybe your other high-bandwidth activities are interfering with your IRC connection.
-
aaaaaaaaa
Zelle (links your identity)
-
Elementoshi[m]
But Trezor does use open source software AND hardware (people build their own Trezors sometimes)
-
apotheon
BTC ATMs are KYC in the US.
-
aaaaaaaaa
Maybe, I have monerod, the cli, and xmrig running
-
apotheon
(and rarely deal Monero)
-
aaaaaaaaa
Well they're KYC above a certain amount
-
apotheon
aaaaaaaaa: and a video call
-
Elementoshi[m]
Can confirm, I live in the US
-
aaaaaaaaa
Yea a video conference lol
-
Elementoshi[m]
I'm really looking forward to using this Haveno project
-
apotheon
aaaaaaaaa: Most of them are KYC period, but yeah, some do push the max limit for non-KYC.
-
ProjectEpsilon
Same but I don't know what I'd actually use it for lol
-
aaaaaaaaa
The one I've looked at is only KYC above 2k or something
-
aaaaaaaaa
I've used bisq before but I already have non KYC btc so its not a big deal for me
-
apotheon
You're also always on camera around a Monero-dispensing ATM, probably.
-
Elementoshi[m]
<ProjectEpsilon "Same but I don't know what I'd a"> Buying Monero, probably
-
aaaaaaaaa
Covid
-
aaaaaaaaa
Masks are normal
-
apotheon
Haveno?
-
ProjectEpsilon
Why would I buy Monero when I can mine it :)
-
aaaaaaaaa
bisq but Monero based
-
aaaaaaaaa
Looks like a cool project
-
Elementoshi[m]
yeah it's a fork of Bisq that uses Monero instead of Bitcoin. Still experimental though
-
apotheon
aaaaaaaaa: You need to change your walk, your general body language, and your wardrobe to conceal more than just what a mask conceals, to future-proof anonymity on cameras.
-
apotheon
ProjectEpsilon: Mining *is* buying Monero. You're just using electricity as an intermediary currency between fiat and Monero.
-
Elementoshi[m]
Where does one learn how to excel in physical anonymity?
-
moneromooo
CIA
-
apotheon
Oh, now I'm beginning to think I want to see Haveno, too.
-
Elementoshi[m]
lol
-
Elementoshi[m]
scroll up, I linked to the reddit post on r/Monero about Haveno
-
aaaaaaaaa
Probably CIA spook books
-
aaaaaaaaa
I've used local Monero before for large transactions its pretty legit but im lucky that I live in an area that has local Monero vendors
-
aaaaaaaaa
I read on 4chan local Monero was requiring a picture of ID though is that true?
-
aaaaaaaaa
I haven't used it in awhile
-
nioc
it p2p
-
nioc
depends on what the p wants
-
moneromooo
What if it wants u 2p ?
-
Elementoshi[m]
then you go pp
-
nioc
moneromooo: took me too long :(
-
Elementoshi[m]
i2p? more like ineed2p
-
nioc
for eating, when hungry wait a while and eat, eat slowly until the point that you are not hungery and then stop
-
nioc
repeat
-
apotheon
Elementoshi[m]: You learn it by hearing people's complaints about how the state can pierce your anonymity so you should just shut up and use Facebook, then you get paranoid and think of all the ridiculous shit they haven't even conceived yet, then you live in the woods and grow out a six-foot beard for twenty years, then you finally come back and apply all your newfound knowledge to protect your
-
apotheon
anonymity.
-
apotheon
found the link, thanks
-
apotheon
Too bad it's on reddit.
-
apotheon
I miss the days of blogs.
-
apotheon
holy shit that license
-
apotheon
You'd think people who are excited about something like Monero would try to minimze the legalese around their software.
-
apotheon
"pay developers, not lawyers"
-
apotheon
(pay them with Monero)
-
nioc
probably takes to much awareness
-
apotheon
Oh, it's using bisq code. That's why it has a shitty license.
-
aaaaaaaaa
How much Monero does it take for someone to develop an xmr.to clone as a hidden service only
-
aaaaaaaaa
lol
-
charolastra
0
-
aaaaaaaaa
I wonder how those guys even got the btc required for liquidity
-
aaaaaaaaa
They must've been buying it from an exchange I would assume
-
selsta
they used exchanges, yes
-
donkeydonkey[m]
did they release their code for xmr.to?
-
aaaaaaaaa
They have a GitHub I never looked at it though
-
aaaaaaaaa
-
selsta
donkeydonkey[m]: no
-
donkeydonkey[m]
yeah looking through their github there is no site or server code...
-
aaaaaaaaa
How much Monero to buy the xmr.to code
-
donkeydonkey[m]
who owns it? ask them/
-
charolastra
wasn't that absurdly little code? input two addresses, access 2 wallets and swap coins
-
donkeydonkey[m]
seams like it
-
apotheon
Just ask if they'll give it to you, first.
-
apotheon
Maybe it's free.
-
charolastra
riiight
-
apotheon
could be
-
apotheon
There's a lot of talk about "serving the community" and so on in the xmr.to blog.
-
aaaaaaaaa
I looked at one of the guys reddit accounts last night he's still active on reddit
-
yanmaani
aaaaaaaaa: you can just hedge with utures
-
aaaaaaaaa
I wonder if he's in one of these IRC channels
-
yanmaani
the coding effort of writing a xmr.to clone is approximately 1 week, depending on how good you want it
-
ProjectEpsilon
Hard part is gaining trust
-
apotheon
true
-
apotheon
Everyone trusts me, though.
-
yanmaani
ProjectEpsilon: Not very. I mean, the exit scam risk is much lower than normal exchanges.
-
apotheon
yanmaani: Yeah, but the people who want to use something like xmr.to are more paranoid than the people who use Coinbase.
-
aaaaaaaaa
Would be interesting to look into
-
aaaaaaaaa
Offering it as a hidden service tor only
-
yanmaani
you could just allow tor, and it'd be fine
-
yanmaani
it's a mystery to me nobody does it
-
apotheon
dunno
-
charolastra
hard part is having the liquidity
-
apotheon
It's difficult to comply with laws as payment processors.
-
yanmaani
charolastra: no, that's the easy part
-
charolastra
????
-
yanmaani
you can just buy and sell both ways
-
aaaaaaaaa
What did I miss
-
aaaaaaaaa
What did you say charolastra
-
apotheon
If you're just working on a hidden service, you can just go wild west and ignore the law, in theory.
-
yanmaani
aaaaaaaaa: charolastra - "hard part is having the liquidity"
-
charolastra
do you have dozens of bitcoins laying around?
-
aaaaaaaaa
Oh
-
yanmaani
apotheon: you can do that on clearnet too lol
-
aaaaaaaaa
You can just set up a LLC to buy btc
-
yanmaani
charolastra: no, but you could buy them on an exchange, on bisq, on IRC, or whatever
-
aaaaaaaaa
Buy/sell
-
apotheon
yanmaani: if you want to go to prison
-
yanmaani
that's trivial
-
aaaaaaaaa
Yeah
-
charolastra
lol
-
aaaaaaaaa
You're a cryptocurrency investment fund or some shit I don't know
-
aaaaaaaaa
Its not that hard
-
yanmaani
apotheon: It's not like running it on a hidden service makes it legal. I mean, just block US IPs and you'll be fine
-
yanmaani
you're not selling hard drugs, you're running a crypto exchange
-
aaaaaaaaa
Isn't that what xmr.to did ?
-
apotheon
No, running it as a hidden service means you can make it a lot harder for someone to find you.
-
aaaaaaaaa
But they still had pressure
-
yanmaani
apotheon: yes, but as long as the server is rented anonymously, that's fine. Hidden services don't actually buy you that much.
-
aaaaaaaaa
Yeah
-
yanmaani
aaaaaaaaa: I mean there's different limits, on how strict you wanna go
-
aaaaaaaaa
Just pay for a server with Monero
-
yanmaani
but there's no law preventing you from running "xmr.to but both ways"
-
apotheon
Pay for a server with monero, then get it seized.
-
aaaaaaaaa
Backups?
-
aaaaaaaaa
Host it in Europe
-
aaaaaaaaa
Eastern Europe
-
apotheon
If they seize it, they have information about how you run things, which could also help them find you, and you then have downtime every once in a while, and users might wonder whether this is the time you got compromised so that you can't be trusted any longer.
-
yanmaani
apotheon: Realistically, there's solutions around that.
-
apotheon
There are places where you could host stuff that might work, but I haven't looked into that.
-
yanmaani
The easiest is to run your server as a hidden service, and then have a second server proxying the hidden service.
-
yanmaani
This is an engineering problem
-
apotheon
yanmaani: The question is whether the other solutions are as easy as running a hidden service.
-
yanmaani
apotheon: depends on what you mean easy. There's stuff you need to keep in mind too doing that
-
apotheon
sure
-
yanmaani
you can't just rent a server with your credit card and go
-
yanmaani
or, I mean, you can, but only once
-
apotheon
Running a non-hidden-service proxy on top of a hidden service is objectively more work than just running a hidden service.
-
apotheon
I don't see why you'd want to use a credit card for *any* approach.
-
charolastra
hidden service: one step. hosting it maby bullet proof, with through a VPN/DDos Provider, accessing it through 7 proxies, ... alot of work
-
yanmaani
so, the normal thing to do here is just
-
as2333
what's the point of a clearnet proxy?
-
apotheon
dunno
-
yanmaani
1) set up a LLC in some random offshore country
-
yanmaani
2) run the site without explicitly putting your name anywhere
-
apotheon
better choose your "offshore" site well
-
yanmaani
3) not doing anything obviously illegal
-
yanmaani
that'll deal with 99% of your legal issues
-
apotheon
3 also probably means shutting out whole national markets
-
yanmaani
apotheon: no, it means having a section in your ToS vaguely stating that "users are responsible for the full regulatory compliance of services"
-
aaaaaaaaa
You can set up an LLC in Dubai
-
aaaaaaaaa
0% tax
-
aaaaaaaaa
They don't care
-
yanmaani
this is how tradeogre or whatever does it
-
aaaaaaaaa
You set it up via a trust with a lawyer out there
-
apotheon
That's getting pretty expensive.
-
aaaaaaaaa
So your name is not connected to the company
-
aaaaaaaaa
Its like $5000 USD lol
-
apotheon
lawyers on retainer
-
aaaaaaaaa
And you get residency
-
aaaaaaaaa
Its really not bad
-
apotheon
aaaaaaaaa: Okay, do it.
-
apotheon
I look forward to your results.
-
yanmaani
I mean, if you're gonna do crimes, "anonymous offshore companies" won't save you
-
lord_fomo[m]
-
aaaaaaaaa
No not really
-
lord_fomo[m]
the masses are ready
-
yanmaani
either lie about your name, don't give it to anyone, or do it with the basic minimum of legal compliance
-
aaaaaaaaa
Is it CRS?
-
aaaaaaaaa
I think its called CRS that applies to most "offshore bank accounts"
-
lord_fomo[m]
those comments 😂
-
yanmaani
but don't, like, commit crimes openly and hope your Dubaiese lawyers will save you
-
charolastra
aaaaaaaaa: afaik 10k and you have to visit every 6 months for at least 24 hours for the residency permit to refresh
-
aaaaaaaaa
Yeah every 6 months
-
aaaaaaaaa
I saw 5k recently but I might be wrong
-
aaaaaaaaa
Its not crazy
-
aaaaaaaaa
Even 10k is not exactly huge amounts of money
-
yanmaani
aaaaaaaaa: the relevant thing to worry about here is whether your lawyer in Dubai will do KYC and whether he will have to break privilege when a legal investigation is starded
-
charolastra
certainly doable. afaik they also have 0 crypto tax
-
yanmaani
again, either do crimes or don't. but if you're gonna do crimes, why even bother with the LLC?
-
aaaaaaaaa
For getting liquidity
-
aaaaaaaaa
Buying crypto from exchanges etc
-
apotheon
I'm interested in how Dubai would handle requests from the US for information about people "facilitating" crimes.
-
aaaaaaaaa
If you just have the btc and xmr sitting around and you're able to provide the liquidity yourself you won't need to
-
yanmaani
aaaaaaaaa: You could just offer it both ways. "sell xmr for btc" and "sell btc for xmr". If you're running low on BTC, just raise the price.
-
aaaaaaaaa
From what I've heard, Dubai has a tendency to not cooperate with outside authorities or use minimal compliance in order to keep their reputation as a tax haven
-
yanmaani
the basic problem here is that your site would earn you a few hundred bucks per month, and you already have lots of competitors
-
yanmaani
aaaaaaaaa: that may be true for tax stuff, but do you think they'll shelter people who are openly doing crime?
-
aaaaaaaaa
I mean, a lot of the money in Dubai is coming from crime or corruption
-
yanmaani
why would you even need a LLC to get bitcoins? this is stupid
-
aaaaaaaaa
Lol
-
apotheon
AFK
-
apotheon
ta
-
aaaaaaaaa
L8r
-
yanmaani
a lot of the money in Anywhere is coming from crime or corruption
-
aaaaaaaaa
True
-
aaaaaaaaa
Are there a ton of competitors for hidden service non KYC crypto exchanges?
-
donkeydonkey[m]
not really
-
yanmaani
aaaaaaaaa: yes, tons
-
donkeydonkey[m]
i mean maybe they are hidden after all
-
donkeydonkey[m]
list em please
-
yanmaani
for starters, any non-hidden service crypto exchange
-
yanmaani
changenow,tradeogre, literally just google "XMR instant exchange"
-
aaaaaaaaa
Yeah true you can use probit for under 10k
-
aaaaaaaaa
No kya
-
aaaaaaaaa
KYC
-
yanmaani
"we have a hidden service" is not really a unique selling point, you can just go to any non-KYC exchange with Tor
-
donkeydonkey[m]
i think the non account service is what we are thinking about
-
yanmaani
donkeydonkey[m]: I could use I think it was ChangeNow with Tor, no problem
-
donkeydonkey[m]
yes i have used that it has worked good
-
yanmaani
don't know if it's still OK though. The market seems fairly saturated.
-
yanmaani
I don't know why, but for some reason IRC always has people who have come up with this new innovative business model
-
yanmaani
"X, but with crimes"
-
yanmaani
"X, but with crimes, in SWITZERLAND"
-
yanmaani
"X, but with crimes, in THE CAYMAN ISLANDS"
-
yanmaani
"X, but with crimes, in SOMALIA"
-
yanmaani
I don't understand it.
-
as2333
'crimes'
-
nioc
a big plus of xmrto was that the btc you got was clean
-
yanmaani
yes, that too. "hidden service xmr exchange" is all but guaranteed to give you the filthiest coins it can find
-
nioc
without that it would not have had much usefulness
-
somethingUniqueR
.faucet
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: Zero less than 8?
-
nioc
also a bog reason why exchanges were only one way
-
somethingUniqueR
8
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000033 XMR to somethingUniqueR [d466d0f8] Wait ≈23 hrs 57 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01220838
-
somethingUniqueR
.balance
-
Wallet
somethingUniqueR: • Your balance is: 0.0001291 XMR (≈0.03 USD)
-
nioc
.faucet
-
Wallet
nioc: Of 2 and 7, which is 2
-
Wallet
nioc: Oops you took too long.
-
nioc
wait
-
nioc
I almost had it
-
somethingUniqueR
hahaha
-
yanmaani
anyone know what the KYC limit is for tradeogre?
-
nioc
they have a KYC limit?
-
yanmaani
do they?
-
Bill48105
do they?
-
nioc
crypto to crypto only
-
yanmaani
well, that doesn't prevent them from requesting KYC once your money is in there
-
nioc
never heard of it
-
nioc
happening
-
Bill48105
they never did any time i used them
-
yanmaani
based
-
Bill48105
doesn't mean they don't but they'd state so on site you'd think
-
yanmaani
Bill48105: not if they want to take your money :)
-
nioc
you'd hope
-
yanmaani
first rule of acquisition: once you have their money, never give it back
-
Bill48105
only deposit small amounts at time eh
-
Bill48105
you deposit all your coins without testing that's on you
-
yanmaani
well, you see, that's where the btc fees hit you
-
Bill48105
lose fees or entire balance
-
Bill48105
but yeah no one wants to move btc more than necessary
-
Bill48105
use cheap coins to test
-
yanmaani
ya
-
aaaaaaaaa
Yanmaani use profit
-
aaaaaaaaa
probit
-
aaaaaaaaa
10k withdrawal a day no kyc account sign up email only
-
aaaaaaaaa
That is funny though
-
aaaaaaaaa
"X but with crime"
-
aaaaaaaaa
I think it was mainly to avoid pressure from authorities causing a shutdown of the service which is what I believe happened to xmr.to
-
DrDouchebag[m]
<aaaaaaaaa "I think it was mainly to avoid p"> Shame xmr.to shut down. I used it all the time
-
mys
is shapeshift.ai good alternative now?
-
mys
wait, that's not how it was called
-
rupee[m]
you probably either meant shapeshift.io (no XMR) or sideshift.ai (integrated in monerujo)
-
mys
right, sideshift.ai
-
apotheon
In the case of currency exchange, "X but with crime" would primarily be desirable in the form of "X but without surveillance".
-
apotheon
(or at least "X but without effective surveillance")
-
rupee[m]
personally i don't use those types of services, but I did test out both sideshift.ai and changenow when tryin out exchanges in both monerujo and cake. For the quantity I did, the fees for sideshift were significantly less. I want to say it was 4% for sideshift and 8% for cake. That was a month or two ago, and I know cake adjusted fees since then so it might not still be the same. Also, there are fixed fees for miner fees. So
-
rupee[m]
if you do larger quantities, those spreads may get closer or even reverse
-
rupee[m]
i sort of used changenow and cake interchangeably there. didn't mean to. I've just never used changenow outside of cake wallet and never used sideshift outside of monerujo
-
apotheon
It seems Elementoshi[m] never answered my question . . .
-
apotheon
le sad
-
yanmaani
apotheon: that's not what I mean - I'm saying it already exists
-
yanmaani
like, there's a million such sites already
-
apotheon
It seems sideshift.ai sits behind CloudFlare. It uses exactly the same JavaScripty CAPTCHA-ish UI.
-
yanmaani
and running one whose only selling point is they have a tor hidden service and more blatantly violate the law, is not a very good business model
-
apotheon
okay
-
apotheon
changenow seems to use CloudFlare, too
-
apotheon
It looks like shapeshift.io doesn't, though.
-
apotheon
how awkward
-
apotheon
"We offer more privacy-protecting Monero, but we add some free CloudFlare surveillance to improve your experience."
-
rupee[m]
does shapeshift still require KYC, or have they dropped it already?
-
apotheon
It says without KYC on the site.
-
rupee[m]
because a selfie with a drivers license is a lot worse than cloudflare :-P
-
apotheon
That might be specific to the announced "DEX Trading" thing, though.
-
apotheon
Yeah, CloudFlare is better than a driver's license, but even better would be C) None Of The Above.
-
ndorf
how about fixedfloat.com ? seems to be kyc-free, not sure about cloudflare though
-
apotheon
looks fine, with regard to CloudFlare
-
ndorf
seem to have pretty good rates for smaller amounts, compared to the competition
-
apotheon
I'm not 100% sure about things being free of it. I just know that with a WebKit browser, client-side scripting turned off, through Tor, certain things show the familiar broken "turn on JS so we can make you jump through hoops then block you anyway" screen.
-
ndorf
i assume we're talking specifically about "instant" exchanges, otherwise TradeOgre is probably the best bet
-
apotheon
I don't see Monero on fixedfloat, though.
-
ndorf
really? i do
-
ndorf
the first five options are labeled "popular currencies" and monero is the fifth of those for me
-
ndorf
or of course just type either 'mon' or 'xmr' into the field
-
apotheon
Ah, if I turn on scripting and look at the dropdown list, I see it.
-
ndorf
funny, if i turn off scripting the list is empty
-
apotheon
right
-
apotheon
The only cryptocurrencies visible with scripting turned off are further down the page.
-
apotheon
Those are "most recent trades", though, I notice.
-
apotheon
Well . . . AFK again. Meatspace is busy today.
-
apotheon
ta
-
ndorf
you can always use their API if you don't want browser scripts :)
-
ndorf
then you can just transact using curl :D
-
sethsimmons
-
sethsimmons
Triptych research and optimizations - a new CCS proposal for Sarang, an MRL researcher, is open for comment/feedback!
-
monero_amigo
does the monerod process need to be synced to generate a wallet via monero-wallet-cli?
-
monero_amigo
ive run into a few cases where it cant find the wallet after im sure ive generated one, so trying to understand where and how its stored etc..
-
charolastra
those are seperated questions. not sure if it has the be synced, but guess not. and you'll find them in the default location, depending on your OS
-
monero_amigo
default location being ~/.bitmonero ?
-
selsta
yes
-
selsta
you don't need a synced daemon to generate a wallet
-
monero_amigo
ty
-
ndorf
er, they always go into the current directory for me, not ~/.bitmonero or any other fixed place
-
charolastra
with the GUI?
-
ndorf
with the CLI, which is what monero_amigo asked about
-
charolastra
oh, sorry
-
monero_amigo
hm that must be whats happening to me, i see it being created in my cwd
-
monero_amigo
and if you call monero-wallet-cli in another dir it will not find it
-
monero_amigo
potentially has something to do with a lack of config?
-
monero_amigo
i built this from source and just copied the binaries /usr/bin
-
charolastra
maby there's a flag for it. or specify the absolut path
-
ndorf
don't think there is any config for this, you would need to specify the full path if that's what you want
-
ndorf
if you don't remember where you put it, but do remember what you called it, try the `locate` command
-
ndorf
if you remember neither, you could try `locate -r '\.keys$'`
-
ndorf
if locate doesn't find it, `find` definitely will, but will take a while.
-
ndorf
e.g. `sudo find / -name 'WalletName'` or `sudo find / -name '*.keys'`
-
monero_amigo
nice tip ndorf thanks
-
monero_amigo
figure i'll throw another question out here. Is the recovery key truly all you need to backup? Should I backup these files too? any other info? when i run `monero-wallet-cli --generate-from-keys test`, it asks for "standard address", "secret spend key", and "secret view key". These are not really specified clearly from the output of the wallet generation
-
monero_amigo
like whats the secret spend key?
-
monero_amigo
and im reading theres a public and secret view key
-
ndorf
the mnemonic seed phrase is all you need to restore the wallet, but you would use the --restore-from-seed flag, not --generate-from-keys
-
monero_amigo
ah i see
-
monero_amigo
cool
-
ndorf
however, there is metadata, like the destinations of your outgoing transactions, that will be lost if you restore from seed (or from keys, or whatever)
-
ndorf
if those are important to you, then back up the files
-
ndorf
i think in most cases it's not important, but YMMV
-
monero_amigo
all good to know, thanks again
-
ndorf
np
-
apotheon
Can't one just use an alias to specify where to place the wallet when setting it up, and use that alias to find it every time you open it?
-
apotheon
. . . or would you have to manually place the wallet before using an alias to open it?
-
apotheon
hmm
-
ndorf
the latter
-
apotheon
okay
-
ndorf
but yes, you can certainly make an alias pointing at your wallet after you create it
-
apotheon
Is there no way when runnning monero-wallet-cli to tell it where to put the wallet file?
-
apotheon
(I'm not on the right machine to check.)
-
ndorf
it doesn't appear so, it lacks the --wallet-dir option that monero-wallet-rpc has
-
apotheon
I see.
-
apotheon
It looks like there are options for specifying wallet name that should take an absolute path, but they're different for generating vs. opening.
-
apotheon
Well . . . afk now; time to eat. Ta.
-
ndorf
the options are different, but they should all take a path the same way
-
ndorf
hm, except for --restore-from-seed. that one takes no argument :\
-
fluffydonkey[m]
How can I recover my wallet using the GUI wallet using the 12 word Trezor recovery key?
-
lord_fomo[m]
fyi
-
lord_fomo[m]
> As it should be considering forknote was the base here which was/is a forkable version of ByteCoin — and monero came from bitmonero which came from ByteCoin soooo kissing cousins
-
lord_fomo[m]
trtl
-
lord_fomo[m]
guy got super raged when i suggested they derived from xmr