@freenode_kiwi_94737:matrix.org: Use zergpool.

Do I benefit from filesystem defragmentation on LMDB?

Why does monerod rarely synchronize over tor even though it has tor peers as well as clearnet peers? Is it because of tor network bandwidth? Or, does monerod explicitly choose to synchronize over clearnet?

fatcat[m]: people are probably still using a tor node blocklist

I'm a new tor node.

* I started running a new tor node.

yeah but doesn't your traffic go out from a different existing node

the exit point may be in the blocklist that people were using a while back

????

Onion nodes don't touch tor exit nodes.

there was an attack on the network and people had to temporarily load a blocklist to keep their monerod working properly

* Onion monero nodes don't touch tor exit nodes.

I created a new tor hidden service recently.

monero nodes have onion addresses?

My tor hidden service can't be on their blocklist.

i mean the way tor works is that your traffic is obfuscated by exiting a different peer

Has anyone here used an OTC seller like DV Chain to exchange XMR? How was the experience compared to Kraken?

Monerod has seed nodes for clearnet and tor hidden services.

yeah idk you probably know how it works better than I do, i don't use tor

was just saying that a blocklist did exist as a possible cause

vekin, yeah. So when you are using tor the common way, you use exit nodes. so its: you <---> tor exit node <----> tor network <---> tor exit node <---> whatever service you wanted to use but not be tracked using.

however, when you run a hidden service, its like this: tor network.

when you create and use a hidden service, your in the tor network. so there's no exit nodes. so the ban list wouldn't do anything

at least thats how i understand it

ah that makes sense thanks for the explanation

likely he is just running into bandwidth restrictions then

fatcat[m], i would guess its because of bandwidth why your having trouble synchronizing over tor

angrymonkeyboi[m: I am in New North Korea so I can't use either of them but I know someone who used DV Chain about 18 months ago and it was fairly smooth

You mean new zealand?

new york

<nioc "new york"> Did they ban Cryptos in NY?!

regulated on the state level

That's insane

can buy btc and some shitcoins

Wait, so the state tells you which crypto's you can buy or not?

the exchanges need to follow the regulations

Use localmonero...

yes there are options

I'm in WA similar boat most exchanges won't do business with me

annoying holding monero that I can't easily liquidate, but I intend to actually use it so not too inconvenient

kraken said no thank you to NY

makes for easy holding :D

I am not concerned

<vekin "I'm in WA similar boat most exch"> Does Kraken operate in WA?

how can i get some free mxr?

angrymonkeyboi[m: nope

<BondJames "how can i get some free mxr?"> There is no free money. Money is not free.

<BondJames "how can i get some free mxr?"> Prostitution

BondJames, start mining

neither does coinbase

<vekin "angrymonkeyboi: nope"> That thoroughly blows

i'm newbie

freenode_angrymonkeyboi[m]: Rent boy?

WA has some laws that force exchanges to do audits and pay for certifications

so they all just decided to close up shop in WA

the death throes of the old guard

Those fools in Olympia need to understand that WA isn't CA, and can't push its wait around like it's CA

There is one monero-BTC exchange on tor network.

WA doesn't have the economic or population for it

WA is just really progressive on tech laws

probably more so than CA

haaa I wish!

Progressive????!

Or, regressive?

If you're in tech, CA employment contract laws a million times better. Specially around I.P

WA was the first state to ratify net neutrality laws

so, Is it feasible to mine mxr with a laptop ?

back before Ajit in the FCC nerfed it

<BondJames "so, Is it feasible to mine mxr w"> Feasible, but probably not worth it?

unless it's collecting dust in the corner

calculate the power usage, if you can cover the bill and then some with the proceeds go for it

and electricity is free

If you think about things through, net neutrality laws don't really make sense. Government should just lower the barrier of entry for new ISPs.

Government shouldn't meddle with ISPs at all.

i'm of the opposite opinion

i think internet should be municipal

Actually, government should do nothing.... nothing...

BondJames: you will make more money collecting deposit bottles than mining on a laptop

Disagree. If you have to dig through people's properties to install Fiber, then it's a Utility, and should be regulated as such

angrymonkeyboi[m: yup i agree

I would be happy to not see government ever in my life.

I also am happy to not see fiat currency ever in my life.

I get gigabit fiber with 2ms pings to google for $40 a month :P

there are also these things called........jobs

<fatcat[m] "I also am happy to not see fiat "> Move to Sudan?

Mexico and tanzania are closer to anarchy than sudan.

#doubt

did you watch 3 kings??

oh wait nvm that wasn't in sudan

so the best way get mxr is buy from someone ?

best i subjective

i suggest buying bitcoin with something like cash.app and then using an exchange to buy xmr with it

Upvote if you have an account

I'm so confused anon_udxf6fdz

Why does asking Elon to do something require raising 900 XMR?!

it doesn't

the 900 xmr is gonna buy 3 teslas for 3 charities

why  mxr is more privacy than btc?

anon_udxf6fdz[m]: that was deleted cause there was a mistake in the post, it should be reposted somewhere

<Bond76 "why  mxr is more privacy than bt"> monero.how/how-does-monero-privacy-work

thx

new posts on r/cryptocurrency reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comment…e_true_cypherpunk_cryptocurrency_is

until now i have 3.5 xmr

afk

Is there a recommended no-kyc exchange to purchase XMR?

some on recommend a ios app for irc

tradeogre is cool

<strider[m] "Is there a recommended no-kyc ex"> bisq

> > <@strider:bitcoinenemies.com> Is there a recommended no-kyc exchange to purchase XMR?

> bisq

just know that its only for btc/xmr pair. and requires a 0.0065 btc security deposit

Thanks!

gnu screen exploit exploitable over irssi? lists.gnu.org/archive/html/screen-devel/2020-02/msg00007.html

How does monerod read and write LMDB?

Does monerod incur a lot of random read and sequential write?

Which filesystem operation is the bottleneck on HDD for monerod?

good morning folks

Morning :)

good day.

o/ raecarruth

BohemianHacks: \o

this channel is a bit more sleepy than doge, but thats true on most the cryptos on freenode I have seen

could also be that its 2am in freedom land

muh freedom

fatcat[m]: verifying transactions you need to read the mixins, which are 11 earlier "random" transactions ...

so a lot of random reads

What about writes?

Does monerod push writing performance of HDDs?

im really impressed with how fast this is syncing

so happy to see monero kicking butt all these years later

Does monerod push writing performance of btrfs with copy-on-write on HDD?

when it's not syncing the blockchain it's fine

on my hdd

but for syncing it took a few days

I'm syncing on btrfs without copy-on-write. It seems to be a bit faster, but I don't know how much faster it is without copy-on-write.

I will also experiment with xfs.

xfs is said to be pretty fast

I looked at a comparison once

a recent one too

with new file systems like btrfs and ext3/ext4 you need to make those changes like disable journaling, cow, etc. noatime

need to?

yeah if you want something like monero to run well, but this pertains more to slow drives like magnetic disks

if you have an ssd it may not be needed

you could disable these very slow and inefficient features temporarily while you sync the block chain the first time and then turn them on maybe

the best thing is actually to store the entire blockchain in RAM

if you can find a system that has enough memory you mount a ram-based file system and then sync the block chain fast, then when finished copy it onto the disk

Are you sure that journaling is a bottleneck in writing onto LMDB?

when I was using ext4 I think it had a big impact

Copy-on-write may be a bottleneck, but metadata journaling doesn't incur a lot of burden.

you can try it out and see

Monero can fit in 64 gigs of RAM right?

that's not impossible

`journal_async_commit` ext4 mount option increases writing performance.

<marmulak[m] "when I was using ext4 I think it"> Big impact on what?

As long as monerod writes sequentially, verifying blocks(random reads) should take a lot longer than actually writing blocks.

probably yes

you are the expert

xfs is at least 33% faster than btrfs. ext4 is close to xfs in speed.

Does monerod write sequentially or randomly during synchronization?

I'm guessing it writes fairly sequentially , but hyc would know. It does however need lots of random reads during those writes

lmdb.tech/doc says

> Data pages use a copy-on- write strategy so no active data pages are ever overwritten, which also provides resistance to corruption and eliminates the need of any special recovery procedures after a system crash.

> Writes are fully serialized; only one write transaction may be active at a time, which guarantees that writers can never deadlock.

so random reads + sequential writes

And, copy on overwrite.

Writes are not sequential.

Oh wait. They are not logically sequential, but the free page reuse or alloc might make it more sequential, so scratch that.

/!\ this channel has moved to ##hamradio /!\

/!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\

/!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\

<wodencafeOj "/!\ this channel has moved to #n"> ban.

/!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\

jess: generic freebode spam or monero related?

freenode*

generic

so what's up with us trying to suck Elon Musk's dick for some PR

I don't remember seeing any sort of feedback time for that proposal

'us'

The proposers inappropriately used the term 'Monero community', should not be seen as the action of the full community imo

that's what I'm saying. How did this get merged and funded so fast with what appears to be zero community feedback

and that... is a right question

Whoever did that were in the land of freedom, so they'll wake up soon and hopefully answer it

<Lyza "that's what I'm saying. How did "> It seems to have been a premeditated effort. Shouldn't have gone through CCS or claim to be at the behest of the whole community.

890 is XMR is like... we could hire a full time coder for freaking 2 years

it says in the proposal that it will be refunded if not successful, which will likely be the case

so it still can to go to development in the long run

luigi explained why it was merged early here repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/209#note_10675

yeah all I have to go is give somebody my tax ID lol

but I also think that the CCS shouldn't have been used for this

sech1: old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lg…do_not_represent/gmtanxd/?context=3

Yeah, CCS was not a good fit here.

there's monero being used for shilling monero on twitter to elon/tesla? sheesh

"Strong risk of sniping" I mean who in their right mind would seriously consider doing something like this?

If a cabal of rich people want to fund this, go for it! Don't mind the initiative.

But it wasn't a community decision or effort, it was done behind closed doors ahead of time.

That doesn't mean the initiative shouldn't happen, theyre free to drive it if they want.

So other coins would see CCS proposal to buy 3 Teslas, and front-run this? Seriously?

Even the "fast-tracked due to previous commitment for most of the funding" is a terrible argument

well ok, now that I actually read it it's not sooooo terrible but meeh

sethsimmons: you have a point re: the CCS. I am xnovaxcp on reddit (who made that post that debruyne linked). We probably should have done this as a separate group initiative. The thought of doing it as a CCS was that it would show off the monero community fundraising to the larger set of crypto users, but in retrospect maybe that was misguided

It just shouldnt have gone through the CCS

Other than I don't see the issue.

welp. glad to see it's drawn some attention anyway and it wasn't just me who looked at the CCS last night and went, what???

<robbyd[m] "sethsimmons: you have a point re"> Yeah, if it was truly community funded/discussed, that would be true.

Instead it was used for the appearance of community funding and discussion.

It's not the end of the world, just something to learn from IMO.

robbyd[m]: Perhaps you should create a separate thread, then everyone can air their criticism there

And it allows you to respond

robbyd[m]: Actually I'd strongly recommend to post that comment as separate thread

It is not going to get noticed now, or very little

dEBRUYNE: sure

can I just point out that since this person is anonymous they could very well be aiming to have a Tesla "donated" to themselves. there's just so much about this that needs to be considered, and wasn't

Yeah would be great to hear from an "insider" 🙂

not sure what charity needs a Tesla anyway that just seems weird

they be like, "can we just get $50k instead"

buying them with xmr.to would have been cool too :(

<Lyza "they be like, "can we just get $"> and we would say ok probably in that scenario

I understand the point -- get Elon to accept Monero and use the vehicle (no pun intended) as a way to show that its being accepted.

<sethsimmons "Yeah would be great to hear from"> Aka Luigi1111, since he's the one who merged the PR

It was more than just them.

<vikrants[m]> the CCS says the charity needs to "Tweet about how a Tesla Model 3 would be used by the charity."

14:36 <Lyza> welp. glad to see it's drawn some attention anyway and it wasn't just me who looked at the CCS last night and went, what??? <-- I thought I ended up on a phishing site seeing that 800 XMR were funded for a proposal I never heard about lol

it's set up for the charities to have to be aware of the competition and to choose to participate

It seems to me that many people agree that this doesn't seem to represent a community guided idea and I tend to dislike this kind of approach in general and in particular in this case

True.

If this wasn't done through the CCS and wasn't called a community-wide initiative there is no problem IMO

Wealthy Monero holders are free to do what they want with their Monero, for Monero.

so do we undo it from the CCS, do refunds to the contributors and start again as MoneroBizDev or some other Monero initiative?

But the CCS was misused and wording was poorly chosen.

here you go: reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lgtvfd/the_reasoning_behind_monerotesla

^^^^

<vikrants[m] "so do we undo it from the CCS, d"> Yes that would be good

I'm ok with that. sgp_ '

can we delete all reddit criticism on this.. so people don't tweet that "Look monero community wasn't behind this! HAHA!"

well.. but that is actually what happened

and the reddit post seems to confirm that formally and substancially

yeah but it looks bad :)

it does yes, that's what happened.

and that I would not define eleven people as several members of the community

My favorite comment so far: "Tesla is a mass surveillance car"

mfoolb: eleven are the donations to the CCS proposal as far as i understood, not the number of people involved. There is no clarity about who is behind the proposal itself yet.

no clarity with a ccs is not that communitywise IMO

check the reddit post, we are fine moving this into an affiliated entity: reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lgtvfd/the_reasoning_behind_monerotesla

or at least I am, I don't speak for everyone, but it's something we all (as in everyone in the Monero community) can discuss today

I mean you're free to do what you're like but if you're getting this much backlash against the proposal itself, and not just how the CCS is used, then maybe reconsider your approach. just my 2c.

and in the end someone thinks that Elon Musk will shill Monero because you buy three car?! I don't like it and probably I don't get it

^^

the main intent was always to raise interest in monero. Elon _might_ get a glance of this and see that Monero even exists. If that happens that would be awesome, but it would be a huge bonus, and is not necessary to any "success" of this

the master plan behind this is probably piggy-backing Elon's popularity and returning these 890 XMR after 21 days

I mean I get it

but it does more harm IMHO

it feels a bit cheap :/

what a morally cheap marketing stunt

well it actually is

I legit though it was a joke at first, even the "Natoshi Sakamoto" name used in the proposal

we were considering giving one of the teslas away even if it didn't work out. a few people were in favor of that, but nothing was settled yet

Still almost 2 months until April though...

Elon for sure knows already Monero exists

people are free to pull the stunts they want with their money though

no problems with that ^

but using CCS and speaking for community behind their backs...

it's ok, might raise some awareness. specially with so many people entering this space

agreed with that sech1

well this is actually with the use of the monero community name and a getmonero mail address

ComplyLast: it is a whole different level

seems like the proponents will revert that asap

"Elon for sure knows already Monero exists" <-- I highly doubt that, actually

I'm sensitive to arguments about speaking for community. might need some rewording

he only recently started taking crypto seriously

come on, Elon knows about Doge!

luigi1111: I appreciate that

Fucking Dogecoin!

everyone knows about doge

I don't get whats special about dogecoin

Everyone and their doge*

dEBRUYNE: can't accept your DM, bridges must still be struggling 😕

keep it public guys

like bitcoin

non fungible conversations, please.

a66

^^

sethsimmons: it's not about the bridges. The monero rooms are configure incorrectly: monero-project/meta #549#issuecomment-775994083

I hope the fact that the community has clearly expressed a contrary opinion will produce an adeguate feedback from most of the senior members in the community. I've been around here for only around 18 months and I've never seen anything so bad for the community

but wait you should be using the freenode bridge anyway. Don't know if that's relevant then.

It worked on the 6th try

Its a DM to Freenode so shouldn't be room-related, but could be a config issue with monero.social

Do we know what charities are getting the Tesla's?

This could be a huge risk to the monero community if the person organizing it gives the cars to an unsavory organization while the /r/monero community endorses it without knowing..

no, it's even worse. the charities are supposed to compete for the cars. on twitter.

doesn't say anything at all about who makes this decision or how.....

lol what?

literally all it says is "the Monero Community will select our three favorite charities to receive Teslas"

then there's a couple of disqualifiers at the bottom of the page, but nothing else

I swear it almost looks like somebody trying to donate some tax free teslas to themselves or something. super dodgy imo

nut the thing is what are these non-profits supposed to do with teslas? Wouldn't giving the XMR directly to them be much better?

yes, it would. I can't think of a single non-profit where a Model 3 would be considered a smart purchase or a particulrly useful donation

weird imo

plus Teslas literally conduct surveillance on their users I mean.... come on.

We should take these off the subreddit until more information is asked.

And why the hell was the CCS merged so quickly. Someone's up to hanky-panky?

seems that way

this is the explanation from luigi, such as it is: repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/209

<Lyza "plus Teslas literally conduct su"> And their build quality is trash

@Lyza yeah. I would expect better from "the Monero community"

I don't believe any funny business. some suboptimal choices in excitement and rush, yes

I just thought there was a process for this, so pretty much unhappy to see one person unilaterally making such decisions

exceptionally poor judgement imo. I mean, respect and all. genuinely. but this is bad bro

not even a good CCS, dunno what you were excited about

<luigi1111 "I don't believe any funny busine"> There's huge risk to the reputation of the community as a whole here. This is a big deal

Hello 👋 😊

<angrymonkeyboi[m "There's huge risk to the reputat"> IMO you are overstating things here. The fact that the community is reasoning through this and self regulating, and hopefully coming up with an adjusted effort that is better than it was before, is great.

<namsardar[m] "Hello 👋 😊"> Hi namsardar 🙂 good to see you on IRC!

robbyd[m]: sorry what? we are being forced to reason through the implications as the proposal already got its way.

there is no "good outcome" here. everybody has to compromise due to what happened, and there is certainly reputational impact for both the community and those that took the decisions.

whether one thinks its net positive or negative is a matter of opinion.

but i think it should be clear that money upfront made a marketing trick appear.

<midipoet "robbyd: sorry what? we are being"> there will be similar future awareness efforts (e.g. meme contests, merchandise contests, possibly other well intentioned stunts) and we will have a much better precedence on how to organize them. we fucked up in that regard, I admit, and we are working to fix it

right. but who is we?

heya nam, venturing off twitter I see!

<midipoet "but i think it should be clear t"> that was the main intent. any random shitcoin can say they will donate $150K but not actually have it. our thinking was that by having it signed sealed and delivered, it would be taken more seriously, as well as showing off the CCS system. we were wrong there obviously

robbyd[m]: and its not "awareness". it's marketing.

what do you think the point of marketing is?

sell more product

what do you think it is?

it's first and foremost to raise awareness. awareness and need sells product

(perceived need at least, marketing also tries to create need, but I think we don't have to do that here...people just need to know monero exists)

bullshit. marketing's main focus is to manipulate or convince people into thinking they "need" something.

create need?

what does that even mean?

no harm...

it means creating the feeling of need. it's still gross tho

create need means just what you said.

its fucking horrible, imo

I feel the same way with you about it

sure

thats why I said monero doesn't need to create need

everyone needs privacy and financial freedom

no, we obviously need to buy Teslas!

we just need to raise awareness that this even exists

look. we aren't going to agree here

<robbyd[m]> we just need to raise awareness that this even exists --> most people don't understand why it is useful, until the boot comes crashing down their face, then suddenly they do

(sadly)

apparently in this short time with all this controversy, this effort has generated more twitter engagement than the perkins coie whitepaper, which has been hanging out there for months and is pinned. if you don't know about monero, and you go to monerotesla.com, you just learned. and some non profit will benefit from this even if Elon takes no interest

of course, by then it's a bit too little too late. my point being, raising awareness is not enough. explaining why it's important is also necessary. only a tiny minority of people seem to get why inherently

I'm perfectly okay with marketing monero. The issue I have is that it looks like the community is still endorsing this Model 3 donation thing when we don't know where they're going.

How are we okay with attaching our name to something we don't know anything about??

robbyd[m]: how does a non-profit benefit if the money is returned?

it created twitter engagement because you made a huge controversy, so congrats I guess

Let's take a step back, and get some details first

cause they get twitter exposure?

angrymonkeyboi: totally agreed. we are changing that out

you literally get charities begging for teslas that may not even arrive

we (the small group that worked this thing out) were naive on that front and are resolving it

how is that a good thing?

it's honestly one of the worst ways I can think of to spend 150 grand, giving it to elon musk

read the CCS, which is linked twice on the landing page. we make it abundantly clear

Lyza: I see it as the best way to spend 150 grand, getting several thousand new users and a shit ton of interest

it's. not. about. elon. musk.

robbyd[m]: > Note that selected charities will not receive a donated Tesla Model 3 if the success criteria below are not met.

those are things you think will happen, not things that will certainly happen

it's literally targeting elon musk of course it's about him don't act naive

robbyd[m]: so again - how do they benefit if the stipulations are not met?

Lyza: that's the definition of trying to do anything. nothing is ever certain but I can tell you, people will not just magically learn about Monero. Not in any large quantity, anyhow

I tell you what. If I came to the community with an idea and got this much pushback I'd just be like shit, my bad. But that's me though

<robbyd> so spend 150k on twitter bots, ltiearlly a better use of moneyt

midipoet: as it is written, they don't financially benefit. that was the point of having clearly written criteria. however, we will be doing something even if it doesn't work out. we just hadn't finalized it yet

just fucking great then - what the fuck is the point

i mean... i'd just keep the donations

and laugh

glad you don't run CCS

pump monero prices and get free monero then dump it

robbyd: you hadn't finalized the terms but you already opened the proposal and asked for it to be merged immediately?

I didn't ask. I was one of the people working on this. I was just the one who donned the flak suit and walked into IRC/reddit. A donation to a nonprofit even if this criteria wasn't met would have been a follow-on initiative

Merging doesn't go by itself :)

The merits of content of the proposal and the process of the proposal should be two separate discussions IMHO

true, though I would say the quality / controversial nature of the proposal is relevant to how the process is seen

if there were broad support I doubt there'd be as much backlash against the process

I'm only concerned about the process

It's good that we found a weakness. I hope we can learn from this an not rush things through in the future

not the proposal, people are free to do whatever they wish with their money

<ComplyLast "not the proposal, people are fre"> I don't think anyone in the community cares what people do with their money. People care that it's being labeled as a monero initiative without any time for community feedback

so that's a process issue

eh the proposal lacks accountability and although it was allegedly 100% pre-funded, I know I saw last night that it was only half funded and I could have donated. so who even knows if there are actual community funds tied up in this. those community members may well have gone in with the expectation that anything that gets to "funding required" has gone through due diligence, when in this case it has not

not a proposal issue

granted, a lot of the problems with the proposal could have been potentially fixed, had it gone through the proper process....

Process = flawed.

Proposal = differing opinions but people can use their money as they see fit.

Its as simple as that.

The thing is. For many the idea is shitty, but if the ideators would have gone forward with it without involving the community and asking to bypass the discussion process. Nobody would have care. Sure, i would have still thought it was a very shitty and sad idea, but wouldn't have been an issue

Generally agreed.

which does raise the question.. why didn't they, if it was pre-funded?

I keep saying it looks like a tax evasion scam

Idk really, just looks fucking fishy

running your money through a third party to "donate" teslas to charities through some... obscure, unspecified selection process, that requires them to engage on twitter no less....

yes, it's a shitty idea, we already made that point :)

cause as far as I can see the CCS is written so the authors could just choose whatever charities as winners they want. it says the community will decide, but does not elaborate. and we already see that they consider themselves fit to speak for the community

not just shitty, shady

The CCS is quite clear that the funds will be refunded if not successful, so it does not make sense for tax evasion.

if you assume naive good intent it makes more sense

I just can't separate the process issues from how actually bad this is. it really does make the process issue more egregious in my eyes. and that's all I'll say on it.

selsta good point since the chance of success is so low

although they were talking about doing something for the winning charities even if it fails, earlier here in IRC

yes, with their private funds

my point is they're selecting the charities, tand are anonymous, they could well be donating the money to themselves

maybe it's fluffypony under 11 sockpuppet accounts expecting a return to the general fund so that this then is transfered to his account to buy another watch and a cruise ticket which is torpedoed by the chinese later on, culminating in the ultimate boating accident?

I'm not suggesting this is what's happening, I'm saying the CCS should be written so that it can't

if they want to go through the CCS, the community actually gets to decide through a vote or some other pre-determined means that rpecludes the initiators of the proposal for selecting unilaterally

imo at least. otherwise they can do it themselves without the ccs

the community would absolutely decide

no way I let them pick alone

What's a good exchange to buy Monero?

kraken

Kraken, LocalMonero

Bisq

They want your ID

Bisq does not

Kraken doesn't need ID, but there's also TradeOgre

doesn't really matter.

they explicitly don't want your ID

A pony!

loll

a moo!

a moo and a pony!

a wild pony appears

LocalMonero doesnt require ID either dxrwzy9y

a cruise ship!

Highly recommended

ruminate on that!

A moony ?

a private key and a boat!

Good, good hyc!

sethsimmons, some of the sellers might though

some sellers on LM do ask for info

^^

I think every seller that is doing bank transfers in localmonero requires KYC

Weird, last time I checked Kraken asked me to upload an ID

kraken will ask you for that if you want to deposit or withdraw fiat

they will ask you to, but isn't required. They do ask for your legal nae I think, but not for any documents

<ComplyLast "I think every seller that is doi"> Yeah how do you avoid that?

yes kraken does need ID for fiat

they have a crypto to crypto tier with no ID required

<dxrwzy9y[m] "Yeah how do you avoid that?"> Use face to face cash locally

dxrwzy9y[m], cash in person, cash by mail, atms, bisq

TradeOgre looks shady but is legit AF and no KYC. Only real issue is low volume

no fiat offramp

<ComplyLast "kraken will ask you for that if "> How else would you turn real money into Monero?

monero is the real money !

:D

you buy bitcoin then trasnfer to anotehr exchange to get monero

Monero is real money, but if you want to ttrade shit government money

you can buy bitcoin with fiat and no kyc?

the best options you have without KYC are:

<sethsimmons "Use face to face cash locally"> That's not really practical for me, especially not during a pandemic

atms, cash in hand, cash by mail or bisq

try bisq dxrwzy9y[m]

u do need a bit of BTC to get started there though

<Lyza "you buy bitcoin then trasnfer to"> Okay but then the Bitcoin exchange wants my ID

^ yeah kinda figured that

do you have a crypto ATM nearby dxrwzy9y[m]?

<kayront "u do need a bit of BTC to get st"> I don't

<ComplyLast "do you have a crypto ATM nearby "> No

<dxrwzy9y[m]> yes that's true, you would have to KYC the bitcoin. not as good as no KYC, slightly better than KYCing your Monero, which still isn't that bad for most cases

better to just buy xmr on kraken directly, than to go thru BTC if you still have KYC anyway

dxrwzy9y[m], check localmonero.co

you do, for the trading fees and security deposit. you can't use bisq without some btc

search cash by mail options

Kraken deposit fees r high :(

dxrwzy9y[m], choose a reputable vendor

I think Kraken is cheaper in Europe

and you should be good to go

and ultimately, who cares if they KYCd you. no different than your bank KYCing you

<ComplyLast "dxrwzy9y, check localmonero.co"> I've had a look and wasn't able to find anything that was actually anonymous

depends on dxrwzy9y[m]'s threat model

Did Elon Musk enable Monero payments on the Tesla website yet?

That sounds a lot like "who cares if they punch you in the face, you've already been punched in the face by someone else".

lol

If dxrwzy9y[m]'s is a bible sales man in north korea, KYCing might not be an option

yeah daddy musk coming to pump the xmr price any day now don't worry

;)

<hyc "and ultimately, who cares if the"> Even then there's still the issue of potential data breaches. What if my ID gets out?

point is, once the money's in your pocket, tracing ends

dxrwzy9y[m], I dont think the cash by mail vendors require you to KYC

hyc: highly debatable. as bearer assets, the exchange losing records of you being loaded has darker implications

just like withdrawing cash from bank

dxrwzy9y[m], if cash by mail is not anonymous enough for you and you cant/wont do atms/cash in hand

you'll have to mine your monero then :)

lol buying Monero by buying CPU's, do it

why not?

that'll work...

I tried mining it for a day but I didn't get anything at all :/

1 day is probably enough

^ literally expected results overnight

of course it will. I thought it was funny because it's wildly ineffecient

Not even a penny

was it sole mining?

lyza not necessarily

I just used the Monero GUI

*solo

soul mining is good for your karma

Remember kids. If you call project coral reef for what it is - fluffy embezzling half a mil usd from the monero fund for a website with smaller adoption than monero woo plugin, you will get excommunicated.

a song of fire and ice

ad eternum

<ComplyLast> not really convinced there's any CPU mining setup where your ROI will be better thn if you just bought XMR outright. Unless you throw some GPUs in tehre and mine ETH to exchange for XMR, heh

if you cant be kyc'd there's no better option

and no counterparty risk

probably true, but you also get a whizbang new computer out of it

all I said is it's inefficient... I think you're taking me too seriously. My laughter wasn't ridicule. I literally jsut thought it was funny

It's linearly scalable

it's not even a terrible idea if you need to be super super anon, but it's still funny to me dammit

<ComplyLast "if you cant be kyc'd there's no "> Is there really no way to transfer USD to Monero without that crap without going to an ATM or trying to contact someone to exchange cash?

I know some people who only acquire monero that way

there is really no way

dxrwzy9y[m], monero is not a centralized entity that you can transfer money too

any business that deals in fiat must comply with rules of money transfer business

otherwise they will get shut down

as soon as you're using a bank you're playing by the goons rules

<hyc> just like withdrawing cash from bank -- that's a good point, i'll think about it. i still feel like crypto presents unique issues in this matter, but worth thinking about

What's the least bad option then at least?

cash by mail still not an option?

cash by mail means someone knows where you live

no?

maybe

depends on how you set it up

you could have a drop location

You seem to fishing for something that doesnt exist dxrwzy9y

a PO box, etc

You have to get the Monero from someone, or mine it.

Yeah I'm not sure about that.

Cash by mail or locally are your best option

If thats not good enough theres nothing else to say

You can't just magically acquire Monero from someone with no interaction

you could always start selling drugs on dnms dxrwzy9y[m] -- there, it had to be said

if you have BTC you can do Bisq

If you have USD you have to do KYC or use LocalMonero

(I kid, I kid.. although :D)

Not really more options there.

Cash by mail/f2f on LocalMonero is a great option and one I highly recommend.

<Lyza "cause as far as I can see the CC"> it unfortunately had to be that way due to laws on sweepstakes and lottos

wasn't initially like that

kraken.com is the most convenient way dxrwzy9y[m]

not anonymous by any stretch though

on a more serious note dxrwzy9y[m], earning the monroes is a very viable alternative too, if you have any sort of skills that translate to remote work

and NONE of this came from the monero general fund. there is that...

What's stopping an exchange to be set up in some remote country without retarded KYC laws?

dxrwzy9y[m]: nothing, for awhile. then, international pressure and FATF

dxrwzy9y[m], banking system, goons with guns

Antarctica perhaps?

jurisdiction is irrelevant

goons with guns control the financial system

You can't exactly pressure Antarctica's government haha

you don't need to

you cut that bank out of the SWIFT network

gg, game over.

Create another network then?

yes, it's called monero

:)

if you want something Centralized by another state entity I heard China wants do compete with SWIFT

not sure if that would be better for you, but there's that.

<kayront "yes, it's called monero"> Oh right, just no way going between networks without being spied on? ...

all the possible ways have been suggested to you already

as others have said repeatedly now, face to face, cash in mail

<robbyd[m]> allow me to clarify. I wasn't worried it came from the general fund. I was concerned that, because I saw the proposal partially funded last night, community members outside of those who committed to 100% pre-funding may have donated without realizing it hadn't been vetted by the community, or that it was 100% pre-funded

Banks and the banking system are surveillance networks

Is that how you guys are doing it?

people do it in different ways

it depends on your threat model

Do you take the KYC risk?

some people do

Some people just KYC because, as has been said, once you withdraw from the exchange it's as anonymous as having cash from an ATM

once again, depending on threat model

if you don't want kyc but don't mind the surveillance, bisq is one of your best bets dxrwzy9y[m]

kayront, he doesn't have BTC

I'm mostly worried about my ID being leaked in a databreach.

he cant place a bond

if you keep it to low amounts and not too frequent, it's unlikely to draw attention

i'm sure we can come up with 50 eur to help this fella ComplyLast

if it comes to that

dxrwzy9y[m], kraken.com has a good security record

but

they might have a breach at some point

there's always that risk with a centralized entity

yes, same as a bank

but maybe it's preferable than some random dude on localmonero that asks you to kyc

Right and this is why KYC sucks for reasons beyond surveillance...

you really have to think about what bothers you here dxrwzy9y[m] and what you're trying to defend against. personally for me the kyc leak risk is too high, i'd never sleep soundly again if my home address was leaked. others think differently

so maybe kraken having your documents is less worrisome than some dude on localmonero

once again, depends on threat model

if it's the kyc that bothers you, there are some options. if it's the surveillance that bothers you, there are other options, but these are more limited and come with their own risks too

<ComplyLast "once again, depends on threat mo"> How do you do it? Just take the risk?

<Lyza "<robbyd[m]> allow me to clarify."> yeah. There were pros and cons of running this thing through CSS (I put the pros on the reddit thread, basically it would show off CSS to the larger community, and would prove we have 150K, not just a promise of it). we underestimated the cons, obviously

dxrwzy9y[m]: nevermind how other people do it. what you need to understand is what bothers you and where your line is

when you know that, you know which options are left

then you act, or you don't

this is NOT how I want to show off the CCS to the larger community, in such a highly embarassing and centralized way

larger crypto community, I mean. it emphasizes that monero is not corporate funded

another option not explored

is selling gift cards for monero

<kayront "if it's the kyc that bothers you"> Both bother me but I would like the least risky option that doesn't involve mailing cash or going to an ATM nevertheless.

that could work too dxrwzy9y[m]

selling gift cards requires the other party to trust you

gift cards can be drained on the fly

true

So Kraken is the one with the best security record at least?

it is imo

afaik never have been hacked

if you go the centralized exchange risk, kraken is supposed to be one of the best

risk=road

Do you think they'd accept a fake ID?

but of course it's a US company so your data will end up in the NSA cloud

NSA? Morono protects me.

forget it dxrwzy9y[m]

a fake ID will probably give you more issues, not less.

dude

Just do LocalMonero lol

you will end up with locked up funds

You're obviously not OK with KYC

LocalMonero or Bisq are the best options sans KYC

<selsta "you will end up with locked up f"> Just transfer them to another wallet? No?

If those aren't good enough, figure out how to make a better option and profit off of it

<dxrwzy9y[m] "Just transfer them to another wa"> They would never let you withdraw

Thats a terrible idea

and remember, nothing wrong with going the p2p route. arguably, quite the contrary. just don't make the mistake of equating that with not fulfilling your tax obligations where you live (if any)

<sethsimmons "LocalMonero or Bisq are the best"> But I don't have BTC and the offers on LocalMonero are no good such as PayPal, Venmo, Cash App and what nog

dxrwzy9y[m]: a fake id will never fly in kraken, you have to send them money to sell for crypto, and the names won't match. unless you plan to bamboozle a bank along the way with a fake id too

* But I don't have BTC and the offers on LocalMonero are no good such as PayPal, Venmo, Cash App and what not

kraken has certain limits on what you can do at certain KYC levels. moving any substantial amount in/out now requires not only a passport verification but proof of residence, etc.

<dxrwzy9y[m] "But I don't have BTC and the off"> Then do cash by mail

Or f2f local if its available

As we've all said, many times.

There is no magic way to turn USD into Monero.

You either buy from an exchange or p2p.

or mine

or work for it

yup

or friendly hakim the money exchanger in your local neighborhood

good price.

Working for it is a great option if you can prove a skill the community needs

well, there is a magic way: send me some money and i'll send moneros back

<ComplyLast "or work for it"> Any job offers that pay people in Monero salaries? Haha

sure

if you're a developer it's easier though

<dxrwzy9y[m] "Any job offers that pay people i"> Propose something via the CCS

If its valuable people will donate and you will be required to deliver work.

ComplyLast: also cam girls

onlymonroes

^^^

I don't think it's a good time to invest in Bitcoin either right with the current price?

not a good place for financial advise :P

#monero-markets:matrix.org is a better place for that, dxrwzy9y

dxrwzy9y[m]: you're beginning to strike me as a rather undecided guy .. :p

<kayront "dxrwzy9y: you're beginning to st"> Hmm kinda haha

fwiw, i've been hearing BTC is too expensive since it was a few dollars in price. make with what what you will

i know many who still sit in the sidelines to this day. when it's pumping it's too expensive, when it's crashing it's dead and it's a bad investment. lol

ssmtp tesla⊙go < mail.txt

oh... oops

lol Mochi101! BUSTED

:surprisedpikachuface:

I both hate to see it and love to see it all at once.

It's a realization more people will come to over time.

Hate that that funding was censored but glad they saw the power of Monero and switched to Monero donations exclusively.

It just makes sense.

indeed

LOL p0nziph0ne

so funny

too good

guys don't censor me! I'm one of the good ones!

<p0nziph0ne "nitter.dark.fail/pic/med"> Sums up today's society.

Damn. It worked. Sorry. I'm not sure how to undo it... I'll try those buttons over there...

dxrwzy9y[m]: sad but true, and its only to get worse

a little more positivity p0nziph0ne :)

hyc, can you please update this repository to let people know it's out of date? A lot of people have been coming into pools lately complaining that they can't configure it. github.com/hyc/cpuminer-multi

sure

Thank you :)

last commit is from 2018 - people can't figure out that it's out of date??

correct

Phew. The red lever worked.

hi mooo how is your day going?

hyc, yeah... well.. I know. I'm sorry that most people aren't as smart as you. :P

A lot of "monero mining guide" found on google point to old guides from 2017

Kinda mooo.

this where they're coming from

Yeah sech1. It's rough out there.

Mochi101: refresh the github page now

it's a mooot point anyway

Thank you sir hyc

Do you think buying a ledger is a good idea?

not when you don't like KYC :P

Cowite so, luigi1111w.

It does KYC?

<hyc "last commit is from 2018 - peopl"> Most noobs have no idea what they're looking at when they go on github, they just want a download link that says "click here to start mining"

dxrwzy9y[m]: old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/jl…dger_database_hack_can_their_monero

endor00[m]: there has never been any such link on my repos

I only provide source code

did the ledger hack affect amazon purchases?

I'm only ok with giving my info to the "big boys"

Not AFAIK

take THAT, small guy supporters

The device itself is safe right?

yes

If so is it a good idea to invest in one?

for the average person, yes

It doesn't require me to have an online account with them, right?

hyc: I know, just pointing out that most people have no idea what a commit is nor check when the last commit was. They just see "This is a cpu mining program for Monero" and they do whatever it takes to run it

<dxrwzy9y[m] "It doesn't require me to have an"> No

You use it with the "official" GUI/CLI wallets

Don't need to touch Ledger Live for any account based stuff

Though you do need to use it for updating apps/firmware

<sethsimmons "You use it with the "official" G"> Are they open source?

Yes

Those are the ones Monero itself creates

The normal GUI/CLI wallets

Both support Ledger

<sethsimmons "Though you do need to use it for"> No account needed for updates either right?

Ledger does not support actually sending/receiving Monero in any way

<dxrwzy9y[m] "No account needed for updates ei"> Nope

<sethsimmons "Ledger does not support actually"> Wait so how would I store Monero on it then?

Ledger Live*

<dxrwzy9y[m] "Wait so how would I store Monero"> Using the normal Monero GUI/CLI wallets

They both support Ledger devices

Oh so skip ledger live?

You need Ledger Live for firmware updates and installing/updating apps

You need to install and keep the Monero app up to date using it

<sethsimmons "You need Ledger Live for firmwar"> Okay is that open source as well?

<dxrwzy9y[m] "Okay is that open source as well"> No

AFAIK

But then how would people trust then to not put out malicious updates?

The app is open source at least

Not sure if the Ledger Live application is

The mobile app?

No the Monero app that runs on the Ledger device

Ledger Live is OSS

Oh ledger is open source?

*ledger live

yes

<sethsimmons "AFAIK"> So this is wrong?

Yes I was wrong 🙂

Okay good

lol

Not that you were wrong but that it's open source haha

Which one would you get?

:P

I've used both S and X

I'd say the S is plenty for most users

Get the X if you need to store a wide range of cryptocurrencies at once

But the S is better for most people

I see the X has Bluetooth, isn't that a security issue?

you can turn it off I think

It's not like a YubiKey which you need at least 2 of for backup reasons, right?

no

S has free one day shipping from daddy Bezos

It has a seed you keep safe

Can restore to any Ledger device if lost/broken

In my password manager, right?

write it down and store it securely

you don't want the seed on an online system ever ideally

Yeah they give you a seed word card and instructions etc with the device

But it's bad practice to write down your passwords, how is this different?

did you write down your password manager password?

No

I happen to agree with you and prefer to store my seeds encrypted /shrug

if you have no physical security and might be a target, then take precautions

but the most common threat by far is malware

or other online attacks like phishing

<luigi1111w "but the most common threat by fa"> I'm not using Windows though lol

That would also compromise my password manager as well

I feel like it's better to just save my seeds in there, no?

Wait are the mobile apps also open source? Otherwise I'll just stick to the desktop app only.

dxrwzy9y[m]> I feel like it's better to just save my seeds in there, no? <= no. It is different though. You can make your own assessment

<sethsimmons "But the S is better for most peo"> for a sec I thought you were talking about tesla cars 🤣

I mean Bitwarden seems like a solid password manager

😆

Elon just found freewallet

How is Elon so dumb, yet so rich with a successful track record?

I think it's all an act

come on now, he haven't used crypto fever

*ever

he is doing all the dumb mistakes we all did (maybe)

Never used it and thought it would be a good idea to put 1+ billion dollars into it?

next up he will kyc himself and use those bitcoins on a darknet market

that's some /r/wallstreetbets shit right there

then, that's how, he will discover monroe

<angrymonkeyboi[m> apartheid diamonds

I don't buy that. That would explain maybe his first successful business. what about all of the following ones?

link him to the page on the monero reddit or wherever about it being a scam :)

I mean it's not like he's doing the engineering at Tesla

and PayPal is cancer

wow cant believe this is a real tweet though. they really are in our sidebar

Conspiracy theory: he's pulling the ultimate Big Brain move to really warn newbies about Freewallet by using himself a honeypot

is he gonna put $1B on the line for that?

the $1B belongs to tesla, not his personal wallet

he would only need to bait them with a "small" amount on a personal account and catch them with the hand in the cookie jar

freewallet guys may also be smart enough not to dick around with a high profile customer

^^

Yeah but you don't need KYC to use freewallet, do you? So all they see is a random guy who's using their app and depositing a bunch of coins, they get greedy, and then he turns out to be Elon

did he change his wallet or does he still use freewallet?

(Note: I'm just doing random speculation for fun, mostly because the cynical side of me would be hard-pressed to believe nobody on Elon's team did the due diligence of figuring out that Freewallet is a scam)

(But if this thing turned out to be actually true I'd be laughing my ass off for days)

tax dodge by Tesla saying Freewallet stole the 1.5B

lol

if they exit scammed now they certainly would never need to work again

lol

why is there no GUI miner for linux? there are a billion command line options to get it setup, F#ck this

XMRig.com has a wizard that makes it quite simple

Because showing a graphical interface consumes extra computational resources, which would be better spent mining

^^

xmrig pretty much 100% auto configures itself on my system, except for adding the pool address and wallet

midipoet> tax dodge by Tesla saying Freewallet stole the 1.5B <= hahaha

any one have a know good tor seed. I am using Seth's but it lists them as never.

What do you mean "never"?

I only server RPC over Tor, not p2p

zbjkbsxc5munw3qusl7j2hpcmikhqocdf4pqhnhtpzw5nt5jrmofptid.onion:18083 is up.

It's also in the source though.

Theres a GUI in the wallet its slow but it works for people that don't have the capacity to setup xmrig.

Send me your moronic seeds!!

wallet GUI cant be used for pool mining I think?

seth

sethsimmons

white bd5b4c32996bd07c rbpgdckle3h3vi4wwwrh75usqtoc5r3alohy7yyx57isynvay63nacyd.onion:18089:0 - - 0 never

white 7550221eec619d8a slvb7iuq6rwj4gjbbfwile5piamhnllwk3s5vqccn2hqvz2nmrkvpiid.onion:18089:0 - - 0 never

white 34f20a634b3910c8 wq7o3snkc65onqc3rjdoynnsve2z22aqs3gixdtaaayx4qhgbz74auqd.onion:18089:0 - - 0 never

Yeah those are just RPC addresses so can't sync from them.

Hidden services aren't used for syncing anyway. Though come to think of it, they'd still reply I think, so someone might end up patching the daemon to sync over tor.

I do not recommend ledger. Paid like 200 cad in bitcoin for a hardware wallet. Had nothing but problems and lost gainz with it. Impossible to get meaningful customer support

This btc I paid is prolly like 5k worth

Hate ledger

I remember calling ledger support years ago, and the guy that picked up was like "sorry this isn't the ledger support number. They moved offices".

wow

I was like "why the fuck is the number still on the boxes"

i've been hearing about a lot of ledger issues this week

every crypto chan i'm in has a few folks come in every day with an issue that most of us know nothing about

why do many seem to go for ledger and not trezor?

seth thanks

ledger looks sexier

raecarruth: don't. Know

Lyza: that's a terrible reason

:p

Trezor are also pretty stupid though. They send out the package of hardware wallets in an envelope marked Trezor

<mnt_grrrl "seth thanks"> No problem!

lol

well, when they started nobody knew wtf they were

Ledger works fine

issues have typically been when using old versions - or the one thing that tripped me up, having an old version of Ledger Live so it didn't show a required firmware update, what was needed to get the latest monero app installed

Tricking someone into paying 200 in bitcoin when they could have waited to get 5000 worth instead ? Disgusting.

moneromooo: ?

when and how did that happen?

whenever people spend btc, don't rebuy, and wait a while.

Oooooh, I have a braindead business idea. For .1%/year, hold someone's bitcoin in a multisig wallet and only refund them after N years. So they don't get tempted to sell :D

but they can do that with locktime for free

quick, submit a proposal to remove locktime. oh wait

hi

anyone use this pool software github.com/jtgrassie/monero-pool

??

cryptonote.social/xmr allows for self-select which is the main addition

I thought locktime was different, and per tx. nvm then. It was a silly thing anyway.

well it is per tx, but if you sweep

per tx, including the change :D

Sounds like monero. I thought bitcoin's was semantically different and that's why most of their payment channel stuff would not apply to monero...

oh yeah I was on Monero again now

That is, it was a "don't mine this before X", ut you could spend that same input without a lock time.

en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hash_Time_Locked_Contracts <- I guess this would be the BTC variant

anyone here mine on FREEbsd ?

<ruderod "anyone here mine on FREEbsd ?"> No, we value our time

savage