Many publications have referred to Dash (DASH) as a privacy coin, however, its developers explained, during a detailed interview with Crowdfund Insider, that the cryptocurrency is actually not a “privacy coin.”

lol

first, the strategic abandoning of "privacy coin" when some years ago there were repeated claims that it was good for privacy

second, "privacy coin" really has to die

As a term?

yes

And because it's not descriptive or because it should be transparent coin/public coin?

is a flat without hidden cameras and microphones everywhere connected to the government a privacy house? i guess you could argue that, but it seems more correct (and sane) to me to say that every house equipped as such is a surveillance house

a house without hidden cameras and mics everywhere is the normal and sane thing, there is no need to call it a privacy house

it's surveillance houses that require the additional qualifier

Retiring that term will require the majority of coins to be private

If the terminology standard is private, before setting the tech standard, the lack of specification will cause transparent coins to have privacy connotations without doing anything

So I agree privacy coins are great and should be worked towards, obviously not going to say otherwise, and especially not here, but I'm not for retiring that term for years to come.

<kayabaNerve> Retiring that term will require the majority of coins to be private

alternatively, all the others could be labeled surveillance coins instead

it's the expectation to be private that's the default, it's been like that for thousands of years. the 30 years or so of digital centralized money are the exception, and now once again we have alternatives

it's like saying you're going to meet an alive person

in my experience they're always alive, we can drop the alive

When cryptocurrency has set the standard otherwise, in order to correct terminology built around tech we need to correct the tech

i think you're slightly missing the point i was trying to make. calling monero privacy coin puts the attention on the privacy aspect, as it's distinct from just "cryptocurrency"/"coin". i'm saying the attention should be on the fact that the others are surveillance coins

when people spend cash it is not their expectation that the exchange is recorded forever and searchable by anyone

And I'm commenting that the special case is what gets the extra adjective. Privacy shouldn't be the special case, but it is.

in that point we completely agree

kayront: I'm still particular to Panopticoin for all the open ledgers

Inge-: nice one :D

search on youtube for "Panopticoin"

you get a very nice bitcoin presentation from 2014, still valid today.

so now a few million android phone users will weaken security by turning on side-loading of apk's

What could possibly go wrong.

Inge-: :facepalm:

Is android going to enable side loading by default?

no but I'm guessing a lot of fortnite players will be more than happy to reduce their security and install fortnite that way

(it isn't just Apple that didn't like Epic bypassing their revenue stream)

to be fair, sideloading on android doesn't necessarily involve reducing your security

you can still verify the signature on the APK before installing it

ahahahaha

I'm sorry. Couldn't help myself.

yes, if you're an advanced user

and you can verify that it's signed by the same key that the play store releases were signed by (before it was pulled)

what's funny? you can make a clear contrast to iOS, where unless you can build the software yourself, you cannot securely sideload

I agree. And you are technically correct.

And a high percentage of people in this irc channel are probably both capable and might even do it.

but those users? pffft

yeah, agreed

the general user will either not install it, or do it in some way that severely compromises their security

I downloaded a firmware update for my HP switch from HP. website was https. file download was ... *drum roll* HTTP

hahahaha

the same for most firmware updates

you could still get it if you used https, but curent state of browsers let it silently download over http.

offtopic but want to share a thought.. very obvious in retrospect, can't believe i ever thought about it before... but there must be many many "legit (KYCd@exchange)" people not buying monero because they know their name will forever be associated with it (thoughtcrime) and "privacy coins" are being delisted here and there

heh. yeah that seems like a legit worry. Much more serious than the possibility of @exchange leaking their picture ID and stuff

i fear we're running out of time to launch capable resistance to kill plans like attempting to ban p2p txs (wtf, btw)

they don't get it, or don't care, such plans mean transposing the old model of centralized hubs that are bullied into playing the police & snitch role

just casually ignore the reason why this technology appeared in the first place

millions of people who came onboard with the vision

and pierce a government knife through the essence of the ideal

seems legit

what's needed is a good XMR <-> XBT exchange, like Bisq but ... not shit

the problem is always the same, who wants the tainted XBT?

Lots of people actually, that's just a myth

premia for tainted coinjoned whatever are next to 0, if any

yanmaani: you mean the premium of getting your binance blocked?

it's not a myth, people have had their accounts closed and lost funds on KYC-Exchanges

after depositing tainted coins bought on bisq

dsc_, lithium_pt: No, it's a myth that the coins are less valuable in the free market

These things aren't mutually exclusive. People could get their money stolen, yet not care yet about taint.

It's not the case that exchanging clean coins for XMR gives you better rates

I for one, will not touch bisq's bitcoin with a 10 foot pole

Some people will. The rates are pretty much the same, and the spread is due to Bisq beign shit

I suspect it might change the day a large enough exchange has two markets: clean BTC and tained BTC. And when you deposit bitcoin, they credit one market or the other based on whether they think it's tainted.

Not easy though, since taint has degrees.

and who's gonna decide what's tainted?

Whoever appoints themselves as regolator

* Whoever appoints themselves as regulator

so much for decentralized currency

moneromooo: coindesk.com/bitcoin-gold-staying-clean

Basically similar line of thinking

moneromooo: This hasn't happened yet in many years

I hope that's not your main argument.

For every single new privacy invasion that happened in the last 20 years, you could have people claim it hadn't happened yet.

I mean, come on.

I really like the cases where your exchange account gets frozen because of what you did with BTC after withdrawing it from the exchange

BTC is hopeless

yes hyc

hyc: deconstructconf.com/2019/dan-luu-files <== has a short lmdb reference somewhere in the talk

05:50

<yanmaani> premia for tainted coinjoned whatever are next to 0, if any --> people by and large don't yet understand what's happening and the repercussions

how do I know? they wouldn't use bitcoin if they did, lol

It would be interesting to see "reverse mixers" that intentionally taint as much BTC as possible, making the fight against tainted BTC untenable

i think normal mixers already do that :D. nobody sends their clean btc to a mixer

True, lol

and if they were clean, they stop being clear the moment they get associated with a mixer

clean*

at which point the wrongthinker can be identified and dissuaded from pursuing any privacy in the future

yeah, it's not looking good. exchanges are bowing to pressure and most people even in crypto don't get that what we see happening now was always a necessary consequence of lack of fungibility/normalization of transparency-->surveillance

moneromooo: People have been talking about it for years though

It's still possible, simply because "bad money will replace good"

Then people will use tainted coins for buying things and non-tainted coins for saving/investing

meaning any business will deal with shittons of taint

meaning either everyone goes chainalysis or the whole thing falls apart. They don't have that clout, yet.

That seems to be what's happening with gold basde on the article linked above.

yanmaani, i don't think you're looking far enough into it. what happens now if you are barred from using a bank account / visa/mastercard? your transactions don't get processed, right?

Two markets. I suspect the closely guarded one is basically just for large banks and other financial firms, and govts.

if you want to be a compliant merchant in the future, you have to confirm the address you're receiving from is not blacklisted

they're bullying everyone into attaching private information like name, d.o.b and address on a side channel for exchanges to be compliant, just remember that if you find the above far-fetched

heh. bluetooth scanners have been deployed along norwegian roads, picking up bluetoot devices, and when the same device is picked up multiple times in different places, that is used to calculate travel times.

What could possibly go wrong

there seem to be very strong forces at work that don't understand the value of anonymity and privacy online. and that extends to crypto

in fact they're outright hostile to the idea

kayront: What

Mastercard is centralized

There's just way too many shady fly by night merchants for this to be workable

that they are centralized is the point

what good is censorship resistance and unconfiscability (if that's a word) if your coins can be watched in real time (have you been a good boy?) and merchants can be legally prevented from accepting your order if you spend them?

these are problems with transparent chains of course, but incidentally that tells you something about the kind of treatment we can expect for opaque ones

do you think it's a coincidence KYC is being demanded at every point of entry, and transparent coins have the official seal of approval™ ? with chain analytics making everything transparent not just forward but also backward in time

the trend over time will be clearly identifying the owners of addresses, so a distinction becomes possible, is the inbound payment coming from approved™ kyc'd™ addresses? if not, automatically grade that as higher risk

As long as privacy is not a mainstream option, many legitimate merchants will not adopt digital currencies. Businesses cannot afford to have their financial activities visible to their competitors. In a way, that means that KYC isn't just the enemy of freedom loving individuals, but rather the enemy of the entire digital ecosystem. As long as it exists, masses of businesses will never adopt.

dsc_: that referenced report was wrong, it attributed a bug to LMDB that was actually im an old version of ext3fs

the actual bug had already been fixed for ~5 years in the mainstream Linux kernel

oh wait, actually, this is the other paper, discussed here openldap.org/lists/openldap-devel/201410/msg00004.html

anyway, their test was invalid and the error they attributed to LMDB was wrong

Hey guys, I am trying to play with the Monero Python Wrapper (monero-python.readthedocs.io/en/lat…nect-to-testnet-for-your-own-safety) and seem to have trouble getting started.

I have started the wallet rpc and connected to a trusted daemon, and also tell the rpc where my wallet files are located, but still get this error:

```monero.backends.jsonrpc.RPCError: Method 'get_accounts' failed with RPC Error of unknown code -13, message: No wallet file```

my rpc command goes as follows:

```/PATH/TO/monero-wallet-rpc --rpc-bind-port 28083 --disable-rpc-login --rpc-ssl disabled --wallet-dir /PATH/TO/monero/ --daemon-host IPADDR ```

i am also import this ```from monero.wallet import Wallet``` (apparently was not copied)

alexanarcho[m]: Not sure, but I don't understand the argument `--wallet-dir` to the RPC command, shouldnt it point directly to a wallet?

alexanarcho[m]: using --wallet-file

nice, is that the file with the .keys extension?

million thanks!

if you use the --wallet-dir option, then your RPC session must start with an open_wallet RPC

(or optionally, a create_wallet RPC)

that worked!!! you also have t specify ```--prompt-for-password ``` to enter password on rpc startup otherwise the thing will bitch and throw you out

are payment ids still a thing? the python docs talk about them, but I thought they were phased out.

they're deprecated

superseded by subaddresses

integrated addresses if i read correctly, or is that old too?

same

so, if i want to give a client a specific invoice, i simply generate a new subadress and ask the rpc if a certain balance is incoing on that address, right_

I think that's it, yeah

dang what happend to tippero

i dont know

but i am currently working on a neat livestream tipbot for OBS. this will be a-m-a-z-i-n-g.

i love that me as a utter noob can use monero. the documentation is very good and i am just pumped to be part of this community

nice

alexanarcho: good to know ;) Looking forward to get some news about that project of yours

github.com/hundehausen/obs-monero-donations we have a working prototype here, but i am currently reworking all of it. Frontend will be react, backend propably a python flask api or something, not sure about architecture.

but the thing is working, see at alexanarcho.live :)

so are you already testing it on the main net?

I saw that you're already rotating the subaddress

.seen tippero

Tippero was last seen ages ago.

.seen freedom

Freedom was last seen in historical movies.

hey i submitted funding proposal on ccs is there anything else i have to do?

Wait for comments. Nothing else I think.

.seen louipc

i created a design for mnemonic seed backup wallet

what u think monero community needs it share ur comments

Can you provide the direct link to your proposal?

I didn

I couldn't see it in the idea section of the ccs so I wonder where the proposal was made

PR that hasn't been added yet?

rehrar fixed some CCS issues yesterday

alexanarcho: is there a STAGENET or TESTNET implementation I could try first?

niocbrrrrrr: if the proposal itself is formatted incorrectly it may not show up.

jatinajwani: you sure you added it correctly?

seems like he has left the channel

It's not here.

yeah...

.shrug

Cool service that just added support for Monero: cypherpunklabs.com

Cool service that just added support for Monero: cypherpunklabs.com

I was present for a conversation with them, in which they said they don't give you access to the server, which is somewhat concerning. Basically you pay them, and they run a node for you, but you don't get to check the node config or software. So you fully trust them not to spin up a bad node

Interesting idea though

* dons his tin-foil hat: could be CIA crowdfunding a bunch of nodes for a sybil attack on TOR

heyy

It’s a great idea that is improved the more transparency and proof they can bake in that the nodes are what they say they are.

quick question

what is the best native desktop wallet to exchange btc & xmr

Exchange them in-wallet?

hi seth =)

not sure exactly

whatever is simplest and "least cloud"

Ive never used any in-exchange wallets on desktop, only Cake Wallet on mobile.

There aren’t any open-source wallets for desktop that support in-wallet exchanges AFAIK

hm

any idea why

Normally wallets are distinct from exchanges, for good reason IMO

Can always use XMR.to with any wallet to go from XMR->BTC

The upcoming Feather wallet for desktop will support XMR.to natively, FWIW, but that won’t be our for a bit

both ways is ideal

Would have to do some closed source wallet like Exodus then I think

Not sure past that, sorry 🙂

ok

can you explain why wallets and exchanges should be separate

Adds a lot of complexity and I don’t need/want an exchange in my wallet personally

cake wallet must be fine, you have used it

Yes, I love Cake, but don’t use the exchange features

I use exchanges to exchange and wallets to store/pay 🙂

right lol

I’m just not personally a fan of the crossover, but no major reason

so is there a "decentralized" option or do i just need "non-custodial"

lost connection there

Not sure honestly, as I haven’t used any wallets outside of Cake/Monerujo/native GUI

And would never recommend a closed source wallet

havent ever used mymonero ..?

But I’m sure others aren’t as strict in what they use

it's the dope

is that how yousay it?

Nope not yet, I prefer “full” wallets that rely on my own node exclusively

Nothing against MM

oh you just set your own node server in prefs yo

yknow we open sourced the server yrs ago

in a way

Oh might have to check it out then 🙂

they

we git the restful api spec in meta

openmonero ftw

a node is like a mirror right

there is also github.com/vtnerd/monero-lws now

but wasn’t able to compile yet

It’s just a server that validates and serves the blockchain, lord-god-guru

ok

It’s the way to be a part of the peer to peer network that is Monero

right

like bittorrent i presume

Sort of, yeah

re: wallets, exchanges, etc. whatever you guys trust i will use

Easiest and most trustless is the native GUI/CLI wallets straight from getmonero.org

If you want to go past that, Cake Wallet and Monerujo are a bit easier to use and on mobile, which is super nice

But honestly the native GUI is very clean, easy to use, and well designed

great

with mymonero i can "pair" with an exchange?

Not as far as I know.

You can always send/receive from an exchange freely of course

btw

does anyone know when corporations started demanding you send them selfies

yes

“KYC” and all that crap

Lots of options to avoid it

Local Monero, Bisq, etc

Or if just exchanging against BTC TradeOgre

hang on writing this down

the selfie thing is very weird

Quite 🙂

the first time i encountered it wasn't even related to crypto

hosting, can you believe it

"grant us access to your laptop camera, we will take a picture of your face to prevent fraud"

wait what

😂

lol

tradeogre is just ... an api?

Is there a list somewhere of which exchanges require KYC, which not, and which claim not but require it anyway ?

that would be amazing moneromooo

The last category is really the dangerous one that needs a list somewhere...

yeah

checking out tradeogre, it is really a blast from the past

electron: it works, basically

Great site for non-KYC exchanges and services

lord-god-guru moneromooo ^

Oooh, good addition to the web. Thanks :)

very nice sethsimmons

does monero-wallet-gui ever lock up for you

it should not

are you currently syncing?

it might if your PC is using lots of resources during sync

creating wallet

lock up in what way?

minimal resources, not responding

are you using Ledger / Trezor?

i don't think so...

ok

gdb into it (gdb /path/to/monero-wallet-gui `pidof monero-wallet-gui`), then: thread apply all bt

(and paste the multipage output on a paste site)

maybe i will get a hardware wallet in the future

electron: it works, sometimes

the wallet does not use electron

that is nice

sorry moneromooo already force-quit

it happened when i clicked the button to change the wallet destination path

slick ui

changing wallet destination path should load your systems file picker, not sure why it hang in that moment but probably not monero related

maybe qt or maybe OS bug / other issue

probably

created with defaults, how do i edit now

nvm

path is editable, not name