I had somebody DM me on Reddit yesterday claiming that Monero transactions are not private and that the whole thing is being shilled

Tried to read more and remain impartial so joined here to understand more about the claims...

Oh goody, private fud

Why would they specifically DM you

I commented on a Reddit post they made which was deleted shortly after

I'm a long-time Monero/Privacy evangelist however the claims made me realise I take so much for granted and thought I'd come here to hopefully understand more!

Since you have been around a long time let me ask you,

Hit me

Do you think that monero is popular because it is shilled?

I wouldn't even say Monero is popular

Or because it does what it says on the box

There are more popular "privacy" coins?

Well that's why I came here: to verify the claims I've read... or whether it's a bit of both and I would just need to adjust my protocol when sending/receiving Monero

No nioc - not that I know of

diamondhandz: you might be interested in the breaking monero series: monerooutreach.org/breaking-monero

there's nothing better for private transactions than monero. it does better than anything else at protecting users from making privacy mistakes. but there are always ways to attack privacy in certain cases to some degree

Thank you rupee - about to sleep but I will look at this tomorrow

It looks long... :)

they're videos

and there's a transcript, so you can watch the videos instead of reading

I'll probably READ THE TRANSCRIPTS! whilst on calls tomorrow during work

but yeah, long

when did this monero4tesla thing happen?

In like 2h publicly lol

today

this evening

Apparently been going on behind the scenes for a bit

ah, just read the repo. good on yah luigi1111

<3

Pretty cool and unique push, I like it.

thx Natoshi Sakamoto

i guess i just have a different ... stance. "is aligned first and foremost toward its ideals of privacy & freedom.". You can't have freedom without privacy.

but i guess we need to keep saying we're all about the privacy

i would just say "is aligned first and foremost toward its ideals of freedom.". but perhaps that it too cheesy.

and mebbe thats just me.

Pilot episode of why Monero: storage.pinecast.net/podcasts/fcc80…Podcast_Episode_1_Audacity_File.mp3

RSS feed: pinecast.com/feed/why-monero-matters

rottenwheel: thx rottenwheel, had listened to that

waiting for future episodes

Very cool new pod idea I think.

Can't wait to see who they have on!

yeah new voices and new recurring content is amazing

more more more

hello non-matrix users

irccloud is more reliable for once!

heh twitter.com/DarkDotFail/status/1359243753664303104?s=19

that is fine

fees are fine old.reddit.com/r/bisq/comments/lg0z…q_to_purchase_btc_for_today/gmpjb0i

of monero did btc transactions, and assuming best-case 1.42kb/tx, that would grow xmr chain 168GB/year

damn, how much gb does btc grow per year

at least storage is cheap

storage, bandwidt, initial sync, random access to retrieve mixins ...

If monero did btc levels of transactions, I'd gladly rent a dedicated server with several TB's of SSDs just for monero node

Was there any irc discussion on the Tesla CCS proposal?

No

I went to sleep very late yesterday, like at 1am

and there was nothing, and this morning it's already fully funded :D

tesla CCS? say what?

LOL

cheap (not so cheap) marketing trick.

but if some charities get electric cars they don't need, i suppose what is the harm

not very well-thought, but I think the idea is to make some noise in media and count on Elon ignoring it

so donations will be returned to participants

i mean, he is a business man, so ignoring a potential three car sale would be a bit silly

all you need is one enterprising Tesla sales clerk

literally millions of people compete for elon's attention on twitter -- not sure if it will catch his.

maybe we could tweet some sales offices around the US/Europe

I'm 99% sure this won't go anywhere with Elon

but media attention, yes

I agree that it's a cheap marketing effort (however, I applaud the effort)

yeah, feel the same

and also a bit re-active on the part of monero community: it's like, we have seen elon's bitcoin moves, and we are now jealous.

Monero shouldn't be trying to please the popular people, we're better than this

such an effort to get monero into tesla payment should have been before tesla's bitcoin addition.

not exactly guerilla marketing - but fair game

sech1: agreed.

looking like a cheap shitcoin craving for attention

oh well

it happened now hasn't it

we can't roll that back lol

best to go with it.

happened without a community discussion

but for the next time, hold your horses people. And don't be that reactive to the news.

I'd like to know whose idea it was

I see.

it is strange that it went through without discussion

I'm sure if there was a discussion, we could come up with a better CCS proposal. At least better wording in it

but i suppose someone controls it in the end, and they have the superpowers

Monero shouldn't be trying to please the popular people, we're better than this < agree

"you have 21 days Elon Musk" I mean what the actual F

LOL

what is the link to the proposal on git ?

musky is tweeting freewallet. did he not see the meme-o?

ok, the actual wording about 21 days is ok on there

lol. cypherpunk cryptocurrency == begging Elon to accept some

_If Tesla adds support to buy its cars with Monero, these cars will be given away to non-profit organizations that can use them to help others._

How will this happen? Let's say we indeed buy 3 tesla model 3s. And we give those cars to charity for African kids starvation?

Like, how does that make sense?

Giving tesla cars to charity for drinkable water.

who controls press⊙go?

and they will do what with the cars?

is it outreach?

Charity employees need Teslas too!!!

or someone else?

fire the marketing guy out of a canon

kek

"please elon, pump my shitcoin" ...

i feel like there is going to be a little storm over this. another day in moneroland!

Elon, ARE YOU WATCHING!

anything think he runs linux and using a password manager?

WE ARE BUYING 3 TESLAS! WITH XMR!

Here is the discussion regarding this CCS proposal: repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/209

Not much discussion really. luigi1111w made a call and pushed it without any community discussion.

<sech1> "you have 21 days Elon Musk" I mean what the actual F <= Yeah this seems a bit of poor form

The proposal shouldn't have a deadline

this is not the first time a "non-standard" CCS has been merged. if there is going to be exceptions over and over again, there are really no rules

There are already no rules really. Feels like every time we make rules there is an exception to that very rule two weeks later. That's part of the reason i don't really participate to community meeting, i don't see the point in discussing proposals.

i just want to know who was responsible. outreach say it's community - while there is no "community" discussion. seems a bit weird.

I don't think elon musk would accept monero.

Elon Musk is an agent for the establishment which favor bitcoin because bitcoin is a surveillance coin.

* Elon Musk is an agent for the establishment which favors bitcoin because bitcoin is a surveillance coin.

even if he does, it would have been better just donating the 890 XMR directly to charity

He's a rich goffer.

<midipoet "even if he does, it would have b"> This.

* He's a rich gofer.

It makes no sense buying cars first and donating the cars to some African kids charity.

Where exactly would you donate? Donate to monero development. Spending it elsewhere would be follish.

African kids aren't going to even know what monero is. Their XMR will be stolen by someone else if you try.

fatcat[m]: what are you on about?

The nature of donation.

you can donate the XMR to a charity, and they can exchange the XMR for whatever currency they require

I don't trust most charity operations. Most of them are hoax.

that's a different discussion

OK that's another topic

The topic is why "monero community" undertook such a nonsense publicity stunt

Perhaps, that's not monero community?

Well that's what we are inquiring avout

*about

That's why sechp1 was asking when did the discussion occur.

The crazy stuff is it got paid

By who?

I understand that the proposal for an atomic swaps got paid overnight.

But such a nonsense proposal getting paid overnight is foolish if not suspicious.

maybe it was Elon himself!

maybe Elon is Satoshi!

Well now whoever's in charge of CCS stuff has a responsibility for the people who paid.

I don't think monero community would do that.

What is he going to do with all that monero now?

Give it back.

How can he deduce accurately who paid how much?

By reclaimants revealing their view key for the payment?

I think there is a mechanism to verify payment?

Maybe. Currently I am new to mobero

*monero

Still trying to wrap my head around

Anyways. Going afk.

Have a nice day.

bell can't be unrung. all we can do is learn from this misstep.

I agree.

Learn to be more cautious and level headed.

And also learn from what this "error" revealed about CCS proposal vetting process.

This error shows that there is something unexpected with that process.

For the sake of future proposals, we should improve that process.

I'm more curious to know who labelled this as a "community initiative", spoke about privately with monero outreach and asked core to deploy it ignoring the rules. Not a single one of these steps was public. Yeah, that's how you do community...

we already went through the "we made a mistake, let's make rules to avoid it next time", but it's pointless if the rules that were agreed after long and multiple discussions are ignored

luigi1111w will wake up to an interesting discussion methinks.

A group of people can inspire others to take action, but they can't rule others without threat of violence or extensive mind control.

That's why rules are ignored.

But, you can enforce rules algorithmically.

* But, you can enforce rules algorithmically in a system that people use.

By the way, how is forum funding system run? Does the operator take fees?

* By the way, how is forum funding system run? Does the FFS operator take fees?

Inge-: could make it even more interesting if more people donated large sums from exchange wallets

^

I'm wandering if who came up with the idea of the "teslas for charities" have ever met a poor person in their life.

poor people dream of Tesla's too you know

*Teslas

first world problems, poor people need new Tesla there

jesus fucking christ

Even I don't have a Tesla and I'm not poor even by first world standards

I mean why would I want a Tesla?

cause Elon

I use public transport and taxi, lol

ooooh Taxi.

aren't you lucky!

Uber because it's cheaper :P

I mean they can sell the teslas I guess

I'm a poor schmuck IRL :D

ComplyLast: what, at 30% depreciation straight away?

poor people dream of food every day and that going to the dentist when they cannot avoid it won't bankrupt them. People who only know about poverty because they saw oliver twist think of teslas

sech1: and good food in walking distance :P

ErCiccione: cmon, be fair. Oliver Twist had some good songs in it

I know what real poverty is, when my parents didn't get their salaries for months (90's Russia) and we ate potatoes only the whole time

poor people need access to food, water and shelter before all. Not Teslas

sech1: what? eating potatoes all the time isn't weird? (from Ireland)

They couldn't afford to _buy_ any food

so it was potatoes from the land they had

sweating every day the whole spring/summer to grow those potatoes

and a bit of vegetables

I hated going there to do an obligatory "gardening" :D

i don't know if you are serious or not!

I am serious

just google how poor people lived in Russia in 90's

government gave out land to people so they literally wouldn't starve

the only good thing govt did in that period

i don't think Marxism is allowed to be talked about in here

sssh

thats a joke, btw!

what's funny is that having a job didn't mean anything, you still wouldn't get salary :D

Anyway, I imagine that the VALUE of three Tesla will be donated to charity. Not the actual cars.

Matt[m]2: what>

?

But I don’t know. The XMR/Tesla campaign is a little silly anyway.

Especially since it says having xmr as a permanent payment method isnt specifically required

its more of a marketing strategy than a ploy to get tesla to accept xmr

wen 1xmr = 1tesla

i do wonder whether peoples opinions will change though if Elon does take notice

takes notice of 21 days blackmail? Oh yeah

you guys assume that charity = for poor people like kids dying in africa. while there are charities for any kind of bullshit

They surely will and that will be even more sad

Yes, there are different kind of charities

and none of them need teslas

What good would 3 Teslas do for cancer research charity, for example?

not talking about cancer either

if you look at the proposal the first bullet point is: charity where privacy is important

So, like what charity?

the teslas to be donated for charities are there only because otherwise the proposal would be just "let's beg Elon to mention Monero so it can pumps". Let's face it.

so it sounds like EFF

or maybe charity to sponsor opposition in North Korea/Iran/Russia?

yeah, privacy is important there

and those charities in hollywood make huge "fund raisers" where they huge dinners with Michelin cooks and all that fancy shit

Teslas - not so much

wtf would the EFF do with a Tesla?

Sell it?

raffle it

yes

i suppose

couldnt' we do a raffle for the 89- XMR instead? 1 XMR a ticket

"donate 10k and you have a chance of winning this tesla 3"

*890 XMR

"while you stuff your faces with caviar at our fancy dinner"

LOL

I'm hungry now

i'm not even joking

gonna cook my cheap $5 lunch

i am gonna go boil some lobster

Rice and chicken

and some ketchup

get on my level: intermittent fasting for today

<charolastra "get on my level: intermittent fa"> Only for one day? Amateur... IF is a way of life, just like monero

true. both fuck up your gains

<charolastra "true. both fuck up your gains"> Funny, but IF does not reduce your muscle gains, it can even increase it as fasting longer than 12 hours promotes growth hormone production massively

it does? i've just looked at the caloric defficit

Yes, that is the most accepted hypothesis as to why fasting can extend the lifetime of rats in experiments for example

After 12 hours of fasting (water fasting, dry fasting adds a different dimension) the body glucose levels are at lowest and the body goes into a mode some call starvation mode and starts recycling senesence cells for energy and increase production of growth hormone

Both removal of senescence cells and growth hormone have rejuvenating effects

interesting. will have to look into it. just trying it for the CICO balance for now

In fact, there was a recent experiment with 10 60yo, where they gave them massive amount of growth hormone together with anti diabetic medicine (supplementing growth hormone in excess causes diabetis) for a year. They measured several markers of aging at the beginning and at the end.

so are we now saying that poor people live longer?

no, even poor people can eat alot of shit

i was joking

and beeing poor brings other problems that influence lifetime

They expected the test subjects to age slower due to the GH supplementation, like for example they would have aged only half a year in the year of the experiment. To their surprise all of them showed younger years in the biological markers of aging at the end of the experiment than at the beggining.

Basically, the GH had made them biologically younger

And the anti diabetic medicine worked, no diabetes

Now they are looking for funding for a bigger sample experiment, with placebo and all the rigor. They did the 10 man experiment first because a year supply of the GH necessary runs at close to 1M per person.

well, which GH?

<charolastra "well, which GH?"> What do you mean?

I'm not sure what GH brand they uses exactly, you'll have to check the experiment

My point is that is proven that after 12hours of fasting the body increases GH production

i thought there are multiple growth hormones

and so it begins cointelegraph.com/news/monero-commu…-to-add-xmr-as-tesla-payment-option

Ouch

> The effort was supported by a total of just 11 contributors, according to the Monero website.

LOL

luckily these articles don't mention 21 days blackmail on monerooutreach

This article must be taken down or rewritten in much more friendly way: monerooutreach.org/stories/elon-musk-monero.html

the CCS proposal itself uses correct wording, I give them that

All that PR stunt crap is going to to more harm than good. What a disgrace.

but but but. it's Elon!!

Maybe stop acting like a bunch of drama queens

People here acting like a murder has been committed

backroom wheeling and dealing and then putting the "monero community" stamp of approval on it was highly inappropriate.

there is always a lot of hand wringing about who fits in what monero camp/community/outreach org, and the core team/ccs is kind of an overarching organization that is supposed to be (from what I understand) mostly hands off and as accomodating to all as possible

Sure, said that somewhere else as well:

<dEBRUYNE> People seem to be quite worked up over this marketing stunt lol

<dEBRUYNE> I agree the usage of 'the monero community' is inappropriate and the proposal comes off as a bit cheapish

<dEBRUYNE> But other than that it is okay imo

and this was rushed through with zero discussion and and stamped with "the monero community"

I tend agree with the people saying this was probably not something the core group and ccs should have done with no discussion

Don't think rushing through is a bad thing if there is pre commited funds, should not have used the term 'Monero community' in that case though

it could have been done by monero space or other splinter group if they wanted to do it with no discussion

with that being said, hopefully it works out for the better

what about all the discussions about rules for ccs proposal. Where we agreed after hours of conversations to not rush ccs proposals to avoid... exactly this?

Most of those rules were put in place to protect donors and not to exhaust them

dEBRUYNE: that means i could propose to fund someone to work on Monero transparency, pre-commit funds, and it would go through after no discussion.

Different matter if most of the funds are precommited, imo

Evidently it has to have some merit for Monero, which such a proposal wouldn't

lets say i want Monero transparency for regulatory approval

is that not of benefit?

depends on your definition of "benefit"

exactly. that's my point

it's gatekept my a small few in this case

whatever they decide is benefit, seems to be of benefit

hence this Tesla initiative

whereas if you ACTUALLY asked the community the answer may have been different

while dEBRUYNE suggests that pre-committed funds changes the rules

which is horseshit

it's actually about what the gatekeepers felt was appropriate

call a spade a spade

If you want to twist my words, go ahead

i am not twisting your words.

what does CCS stand for? Especially the first C?

You are

you said pre-committed funds changes the rules

I didn't see much of C in that CCS proposal

so like that guy that wanted to have his tuition paid by CCS, if he would have had pre-committed funds it would have been approved with no discussion

the other problem with all this is a reputation damage to CCS and Monero community as a whole. Things shouldn't be done behind the curtains here

i think the rule is if you have the money upfront, you can have curtains

and be exempted from community review

i think it's called a monerocracy

midipoet: I will write up my thoughts and we can go from there

/!\ this channel has moved to ##hamradio /!\

/!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\

/!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\

jess ^

thanks

/!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\

fwiw i agree with dEBRUYNE here. i'd probably prefer if it didn't happen, but i'm not losing sleep over it

I agree with midipoet, dEBRUYNE, Mumuks[m], jwinterm, wowario[m] and kayront

-Sigyn- Your actions in #monero-community tripped automated anti-spam measures (nicks/hilight spam), but were ignored based on your time in channel. Stop now, or automated action will still be taken. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact a member of staff

I'm getting silenced for mostly agreeing with wowario[m] I think

sigyn's in high alert

because of the network wide botflood just now

jk :)

lol it is for pinging more than couple people I think

although wowario[m] is very sus

jwinterm, dont destroy my personal narrative PLEASE

i just threw Mumuks[m] into it because his take regarding Hormone growth and the CCS was quite unique.

You are welcome

You really turned the conversation upside down. kudos.

Anytime

CCS rules should be the same for everyone, want to donate to something with your group and want it fast tracked use a different vehicle. case closed

no growth hormones required.

even though, fasting might help.

<ComplyLast "CCS rules should be the same for"> Totally agreed.

who was actually involved in the initiative and the decisions taken therein? or does that matter?

That hasn't really come to light yet beyond luigi1111w

>use a different vehicle

I see what you did there

midipoet: old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lg…fd/the_reasoning_behind_monerotesla

what " frontrun by a centralized coin with a warchest" means?

this being discussed on the CCS for a while

and wownero doing it instead for instnace

or some premined coin

I think it's a good argument

the problem is just the CCs usage imo

regarding wownero, not with your coins wowario[m], but with jwinterm's

lol I don't think I have enough wownero to buy a single new car of any brand

maybe some mini chinese thinger

yes, right.

yuuugeee bags.

dEBRUYNE: is that thread posted by you?

or someone else?

jwinterm but can you buy a kick-bike at least?

that would be fitting for Wownero CEO

yes, who is the elon of kickbikes?

jwinterm is probably the worst CEO ever.

sethsimmons: i don't understand why whomever (except one brave soul) was involved in the decision making for this hasn't come forward and said so.

They have, robbyd, luigi1111w , and vikrants_ at least

so three people can veto the CCS?

am i reading that correctly, or not?

There were more I guess, but yes

As I've said, CCS should not have been used at all for something like this.

It was a poor choice.

i am sort of surprised there weren't "sponsored by" logos on the monerotesla wesbite.

should have just committed guys and girls

no people are left in this awkward no mans' land

*now people

none of them were involved in "vetoing the CCS". I did that. The argument for fast tracking was sufficient to me. Whether such a project should be a CCS at all is a different question that I should perhaps have explored more before proceeding

midipoet: Someone else

I left my thoughts there

yes, i saw - thanks for clarifying

luigi1111: fair enough

now we just have put the process in place where luigi1111 can donate in person an electric car to an African kids cancer charity.

this is food news

or, good

don't eat the car

Guys, Tron just got an emoji on Twitter. Gotta up the game.

luigi1111: Can I post that reasoning on Reddit?

it's a public channel, go for it if it fits the context

Is my big picture correct? vikrants_ robbyd and sgp_ (i'm guessing from his comments on reddit) discussed the proposal with luigi1111, asking to quick-merge it because of $reasons. Luigi agrees with $reasons and that's where we are now.

a few others but yeah

Alright.

i have a feeling that ErCiccione ain't gonna be a happy camper about this one!

the opposite. I made my points, luigi answered and agreed it was a mistake. It definitely ruined my day, but there isn't reallu much to say anymore.

haven't had this much controversy since MEA I guess. nice shakeup

or unnice maybe

it's just sad that now the entire community is tied to this

cypherpunks want to buy Teslas for charity! who doesn't love that?

never thought I'd see these words in the same sentence :D

>D

buy your surveillance car with anonymous digital monies today!

terms and conditions apply

Wow, how fast merging. Congrats :)

One more article coinspeaker.com/monero-musk-xmr-tesla

interesting bit about Freewallet in the end

binaryFate: I tried asking you before if you and Deedle think it would be good or bad to plan a 2021 use for Digital Renegades, for example a miniproject carried out together with my company Monero Devices?

...just in case things go as assumed and there is no chance of a Konferenco or other replacement.

Remember kids. If you call project coral reef for what it is - fluffy embezzling half a mil usd from the monero fund for a website with smaller adoption than monero woo plugin, you will get excommunicated.

this is coming out of the blue by now, but:

you're coming out of the closet?

"the Monero Community", the CCS, Monero: none of these are in existential crisis. The disparate responses, if anything, suggest we have a more "real" community than most projects. Yes, there are problems. Yes, we will iterate as needed and move past them

not an existential crisis, but a certain reputation damage has happened

granted

and trust in the CCS was definitely hit

anything worse than beeing knows as the kiddy fidler coin?

happy to discuss CCS rules today or later, specifically probably making the 24hr rule "hard and fast". As in, if your proposal can't meet that requirement, "sorry, you'll have to get funding some other way"

24 hours is even too few IMO, i would make at least 48. If you want your proposal to pass through the CCS you have to accept community discussion first. I would make that as a required rule (no more speed-merged proposals).

fwiw, i find it hard not to agree with ErCiccione on the above

was the CCS even posted in IRC?

*before it got approved?

yeah I looked through the rules and couldn't find it

Sure, we would lose some proposals who cannot be public immediately as a result. But since this problem already happened before and now it's happening again, i think it worth it.

I would agree with that.

Set a firm time that is required to have passed before a proposal can be merged.

I'm on board. We should probably bring it up at a meeting before changing though

2d won't break anything IMO, and gives at least some time before things progress.

<luigi1111w "I'm on board. We should probably"> For sure

"the 3 of us decided 48hrs is the proper time" :)

heh

What's going to happen now with this monerotesla project? Shouldn't they at least change the wording on the website?

Because the website is still being tweeted by people (including monero outreach few minutes ago).

but from the conversations on reddit seems that the proposal will be withdrawed? unclear

they also still have an official "press⊙go" contact on the page (the only contact actually). That should be changed as well.

"Elon Mask, you have 21 days!!!""

"Hurrr, add monero to your websiteee!!"

We've been updating the wording on the piece to make it more clear that it's a group within the community. I thought it was a MCW thing until this morning. They were discussing naming their group as something so we'll update again when things are clearer.

thunderosa___: in the meantime i would suggest to not tweet about it.

but you are talking about monero outreach, i'm talking about monerotesla.com, i don't know who manages that one

Monero Outreach is covering this, we are not organizing it

yeah i got that

I believe Justin is running that page.

ping sgp_

also robbyd

Is there anything in particular that's bad about it? Are you referring to "The Monero community has crowdfunded..."

thunderosa___: > I thought it was a MCW thing until this morning. > lead by who from the MCW?

sgp_: yes. Are you planning to keep the campaign going? If yes do you plan to make any kind of communication about the fact that the campaign is not run by the "Monero Community"? I think i read something on reddit about using another name?

A bit of an assumption on my part. I was pinged to join by rehrar and then it seemed like roughly the old community workgroup in the chat. No one said it was MCW, I assumed.

if there is a separate chat with enough people to look like -community where such decisions are taken, it's a problem.

i hope the strategy now it's not just to be quiet and wait for people to forget.

sgp_

doesn't DV Chain source liquidity from exchanges? if so, that comment of yours on xmrtrader is just pure marketing shil

assuming DV Chain sources liquidity from Binance, Finex and Kraken, if all are down (which has happened) it doesn't matter if your api is reliable or not. you are unable to source liquidity.

fwiw, I think that "The Monero community has crowdfunded..." is not horrible wording, but I'm open to changing it if you like

certainly none of the other proposals received funding from anyone

and you could probably find opposition from at least someone for those

"members of the Monero community" perhaps?

Members of the Monero community funded...

As opposed to the "..community crowdfunded", makes more sense. Mainly as the community wasn't asked to fund the proposal, unless I missed that bit

well, members of the community were asked certainly

not every member obviously

ComplyLast: DV Chain also has its own supply of XMR

and its own set of other counterparties we trade with who are not exchanges

interesting

ty

ComplyLast: you are right, we definitely trade XMR on exchanges too. That's a big part of making markets

but no, we don't *only* do that

cool, thanks for the input

sure np

sgp_ do you mean that you still consider the campaign something created by the "Monero Community" even after the response on reddit?

ErCiccione: if we want to go down the semantics route, I think that nothing done in this workgroup either should be "by the Monero community" (generally)

but by any reasonable measure, yes, members of the Monero community donated to this proposal

so I can change the wording in that way

but the monero community does not equal "this channel only"

of course not, but it definitely doesn't mean "an indefinite number of people in a private chat"

How many individuals is enough before it constitutes the Monero community?

More than what is in a private chat

changed to "Members of the Monero community have crowdfunded enough XMR to buy three Tesla Model 3 cars"

that is entirely accurate

that's appreciated

Also, midipoet, you are incorrect that the only thing needed to get merged is precommitted funds. And the examples of lh proposal and stuff are way off base.

my only gripe is not giving the community time to discuss. the majority of the ppl here are volunteers and when you dont give them a chance to speak on it, the project is turning its back on them. to me, they are the gas that keeps this engine going. im guessing it would have been rejected by the CCS and the tesla ppl would have to have done it on their own. imo this is dumb marketing and didnt warrant "fast

tracking". maybe fast tracking should only be used in instances of past, funded and established CCS consumers?

ComplyLast: ohon the DV Chain discussion, one more thing

*on

Core approval is completely needed.

Core (there was more than one core team member present) did a value judgement and thought this was worth giving a go. The precommitted funds, plus the value judgment meant core was ok with a fast track.

I know it's a bit shill-y to say that the tech is so reliable, but it really is a differentiator for us. FIX/REST/Websocket are all super reliable and I know my team takes alot of pride in that

i wish it would have been discussed and another project took the idea before an approval could have happened 😆

Sure, I wasn't shitting on you guys

I heard you guys do a good work, it's easier to have an amazing FIX/REST/WS connection as an OTC desk than as an exchange serving hundreds of thousands of clients at the same time, so it's also an issue of scale.

haha yeah totally, we get a few high demand clients but the load is more predictable for most of them

we don't get 1 MM users showing up out of no where

hopefully monero volume treats you guys well.

can we get an example where a fast track should be warranted? maybe that should be discussed first. imo this aint one of them.

ComplyLast: 🤞 most of our volume is in BTC/ETH/stables though

as everywhere else :)

haha yup exactly

like, moo is on his death pasture, he needs the funds stat or his hooves wont make it 🐄

kinghat[m]: lmao @ "death pasture"

kinghat[m] critical protocol issue that needs immediate attention or dev funding, etc

nobody in the community would dispute that fast track.

stuff like this would qualify for a waiver imo

i think outlining a few examples would help in comparing things like "teslas for charity" to 🐄...

i still lubs luigi1111w though 🥰

This shows Monero has a vocal community that can and will speak up. That is a goid thing.

good*

hafl the glass full.

half*

It does not need consensus, but it requires to be heard.

monero fixes this.

I kinda still lub luigi1111w too

kinda being the key word there.

rehrar[m]: value judgement?

It's a marketing trick

A promise of potential charity, under the pretence of a bribe

You guys rage about there being no CCS discussion, but literally none of you come discuss during meetings or even comment on most proposals. XD

<Inge- "This shows Monero has a vocal co"> Here here!

I am actually "raging" about nobody being in the presence to tell you that how ridiculous the whole thing sounded.

Teslas for charity, if elon adds monero payment option?

this thing is ridiculous twelve ways to sunday

wen pump

<nioc "wen pump"> Already happened, back to down trend now 😅

On this I don't disagree.

rehrar[m]:most people never exercise free speech either

I'm picking at the rage at the system that nobody takes part in.

I see.

Because of the lack of engagement in vetting CCS proposals, there are so few comments (if any) so most CCS proposals come down to me and Luigi discussing them anyways.

We hold meetings so people can comment. Nobody comes to the meetings. And also (and this is especially hilarious to see), the people that are at the meetings don't talk or comment when proposals are discussed.

So we "move on to the next one" so there isn't silence in the room for five minutes.

rehrar[m]: that's bullshit. The last few meetings you were organising and it wasn't clear when they were

Me, personally, only recently started attending. Some of the stuff that discussed last time was above my expertise in order to comment (example: anon's proposal for p2p protocol, and some other coding CCS)

A number of times people came in to clarify

Midipoet you act like this hasn't been a thing for literally years.

I specifically asked you to do the usual GitHub issue so people could put up agenda items

You didnt

inb4 midipoet's sockpuppets invade the meeting on the 23rd

So don't come round saying nobody gives a shit

Midipoet you act like this hasn't been a thing for literally years.

The people involved in this Tesla shit show should just have the backbone to say it was morally dubious on a number of levels

End of

Not to then blame the community for the mess

That just fucking takes the piss

i think silence is a form of agreement as most CCS proposals are sane. there are examples where the community was like, "thats going to be a no from me dawg."

I'm not blaming the community. I'm saying people coming in with a moral high ground are, as you say, taking the piss.

I will publicly say I somewhat regret my involvement (fetching people and making the site code upon request) and am sad that the community feels they have been failed. I don't like how this ended up, and I'm reflecting on my role in it.

plus, if you give people the opportunity to discuss and they dont bite, they have nothing to go on. not giving them the option is a different ballgame. you cant then say, "well you guys dont usually participate."

^

But having to listen to these people above it all who don't usually get into the nitty grittys of the system themselves is annoying.

the nitty gritty is that proposals are discussed. The nitty gritty is that there are VERY FEW crude marketing attempts made by Monero. And even fewer that involve "potentially" donating cars to unnamed charities.

And yet some people actually thought it was a good idea

If Nano had done it, what would the XMR community have said?

Would they have said "great idea"?

I would hazard a guess not.

Yet for some unbeknownst reason, a group of individuals thought it was

And used a community funding vehicle to pass it off as a community effort.

That's the nitty gritty

its moot now but does anyone think this would have passed if given the opportunity for discussion?

I think it would have merited a pretty long discussion

And I would hazard a guess there would have been people on both sides

i think that all of the non participating participants that frequent these parts wouldnt have let it fly, but thats me.

<kinghat[m] "its moot now but does anyone thi"> nope.

I for one, if saw that in this chat, would sound against that.

i still lubs you too rehrar[m] 😘

And what's even worse is that some people involved even made distinct efforts in the recent past to form a seperate entity for this type of stuff, and yet for another unbeknownst reason decided against framing it under that entity.

So at this stage who the fuck knows!

No one goes to the meetings because there's no change in channel topic (MOTD), nor GitHub issues, nor clear outlined agendas, nor broader call for meetings i.e. posts on /r/MoneroCommunity, or even Space's Twitter handle. Not to bash on that argument, as I as well can understand there might be people who aren't deeply involved and take a moral high ground.

It's not love/hate directed towards individuals. It is whether that proposal makes sense from monero's PR.

* No one makes it to the meetings because there's no change in channel topic (MOTD), nor GitHub issues, nor clear outlined agendas, nor broader call for meetings i.e. posts on /r/MoneroCommunity, or even Space's Twitter handle. Not to bash on that argument, as I as well can understand there might be people who aren't deeply involved and take a moral high ground.

mechanic41turk[m: it definitely doesn't. It's on par with the hookers and blow bullshit in 2017

* No one makes it to the meetings because there's no change in channel topic (MOTD), nor GitHub issues, nor clear outlined agendas, nor broader call for meetings i.e. posts on /r/MoneroCommunity, or even Space's Twitter handle. Not to bash on that argument, as I as well can understand there might be people who aren't deeply involved and take a moral high ground. (Like me?)

we had hookers and blow in 2017?

<midipoet "And what's even worse is that so"> Very good point.

Mistakes were made. I wish people would just own up to it, learn from them, and move on.

fwiw ive been trying to get involved in meetings for a little while now but ive only been able to catch one of them. it doesnt look like there's a schedule like posted anywhere

Yeah, the meeting dates should be made more visible.

midipoet: it was a different group of people than Monero Space jfc lol

For example, I am pulling r/Monero posts via rss to my computer. And I don't remember seeing them being announced there.

sgp_: so it was just you from Monero space involved?

I was only helping out by myself there yeah

believe it or not I am also a person

Fair enough. Then I apologise for insinuating it was a Monero space effort

wasn't Seth Simmons also involved?

No

I knew nothing about it till it went live :)

you did tweet about it before it launched though?

It was already live on the CCS

In Funding Required

Not sure what it matters if I was involved or not FWIW, but I was not.

only because sgp mentioned that he was the only one from monero space. doesn't matter really.

Witch hunting I guess 🙃🙃

😂

Thought the effort was interesting when pre-funded

But definitely see the CCS route was a bad decision and wording needed to be updated as well.

witches tend to gauge their audience better (:

<geonic "twitter.com/sethisimmons"> Yeah it was already live and being funded.

But keep hunting

You're doing good work trying to find out who needs to be burned at the stake for their sins.

lol. I just find it funny that the originators of the idea and the people who whispered in luigi's ear are noticeably absent from the mea culpa on Reddit

or are we to believe that an anon account we've never heard of has the clout to push through an idea through CCS without discussion?

What do you mean?

Think you need to read backscroll

All this has been discussed at length.

I didn't see the originators of the idea mentioned

could have missed it

Most or all have mentioned it

And one posted on Reddit: reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lgtvfd…easoning_behind_monerotesla/gmtf5t8

no idea who that person on reddit

is

New to the community AFAIK

Woops meant to link the the post itself: reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lgtvfd/the_reasoning_behind_monerotesla

Not that individual comment

but still

new to the community has that much pull

?

I think they go by robbyd here

also new

Idk if "pull" is the right word

They were involved

ok

It was a group of people

The rest of whom are "OGs" in Monero/Core FWIW

have only looked a the broad strokes

There's no clear list or anything AFAICT

But many people have mentioned they helped or donated.

How in god's name people think ^ is a good idea is beyond me

It's basically "ask charities to beg for Teslas that probably won't arrive as it was really just a PR stunt to bring attention to a cryptocurrency"

<sethsimmons[m] "I think they go by robbyd here"> Yes, this is the individual doing a quick look up FWIW: crunchbase.com/person/robby-dermody

The robbyd handle isn't in -community, but they are parked in -space if anyone wants to chat with them

also in -site

.usd y up

cause tesla pamp obvi

1-800-pmpnero