01:28:28 <diamondhandz[m]> I had somebody DM me on Reddit yesterday claiming that Monero transactions are not private and that the whole thing is being shilled
01:32:39 <diamondhandz[m]> Tried to read more and remain impartial so joined here to understand more about the claims...
01:35:06 <nioc> Oh goody, private fud
01:36:43 <nioc> Why would they specifically DM you
01:40:35 <diamondhandz[m]> I commented on a Reddit post they made which was deleted shortly after
01:42:02 <diamondhandz[m]> I'm a long-time Monero/Privacy evangelist however the claims made me realise I take so much for granted and thought I'd come here to hopefully understand more!
01:43:25 <nioc> Since you have been around a long time let me ask you,
01:44:16 <diamondhandz[m]> Hit me
01:44:32 <nioc> Do you think that monero is popular because it is shilled?
01:45:01 <diamondhandz[m]> I wouldn't even say Monero is popular
01:45:24 <nioc> Or because it does what it says on the box
01:46:25 <nioc> There are more popular "privacy" coins?
01:46:29 <diamondhandz[m]> Well that's why I came here: to verify the claims I've read... or whether it's a bit of both and I would just need to adjust my protocol when sending/receiving Monero
01:46:45 <diamondhandz[m]> No nioc - not that I know of
01:51:37 <rupee[m]1> diamondhandz: you might be interested in the breaking monero series: https://www.monerooutreach.org/breaking-monero/
01:52:32 <rupee[m]1> there's nothing better for private transactions than monero. it does better than anything else at protecting users from making privacy mistakes. but there are always ways to attack privacy in certain cases to some degree
01:53:08 <diamondhandz[m]> Thank you rupee - about to sleep but I will look at this tomorrow
01:55:17 <diamondhandz[m]> It looks long... :)
01:55:29 <rupee[m]1> they're videos
01:55:48 <rupee[m]1> and there's a transcript, so you can watch the videos instead of reading
01:56:11 <diamondhandz[m]> I'll probably READ THE TRANSCRIPTS! whilst on calls tomorrow during work
01:56:11 <rupee[m]1> but yeah, long
03:53:12 <gingeropolous> when did this monero4tesla thing happen?
03:54:39 <sethsimmons> In like 2h publicly lol
03:54:45 <nioc> today
03:54:57 <nioc> this evening
03:54:59 <sethsimmons> Apparently been going on behind the scenes for a bit
03:55:16 <gingeropolous> ah, just read the repo. good on yah luigi1111
03:56:41 <luigi1111w> <3
03:57:06 <sethsimmons> Pretty cool and unique push, I like it.
04:00:11 <nioc> thx Natoshi Sakamoto
04:11:47 <gingeropolous> i guess i just have a different ... stance. "is aligned first and foremost toward its ideals of privacy & freedom.". You can't have freedom without privacy.
04:12:02 <gingeropolous> but i guess we need to keep saying we're all about the privacy
04:12:52 <gingeropolous> i would just say "is aligned first and foremost toward its ideals of freedom.". but perhaps that it too cheesy.
04:14:33 <gingeropolous> and mebbe thats just me.
04:15:35 <rottenwheel> Pilot episode of why Monero: https://storage.pinecast.net/podcasts/fcc80725-154b-44e9-879a-74e81d67aa82/audio/83ca484e-5486-4b3e-956c-cabe25b75f14/Podcast_Episode_1_Audacity_File.mp3
04:15:35 <rottenwheel> RSS feed: https://pinecast.com/feed/why-monero-matters
04:15:35 <rottenwheel> https://nitter.42l.fr/WhyMonero
04:20:46 <nioc> rottenwheel: thx rottenwheel, had listened to that
04:21:03 <nioc> waiting for future episodes
04:22:35 <sethsimmons> Very cool new pod idea I think.
04:22:41 <sethsimmons> Can't wait to see who they have on!
04:22:55 <sgp_> yeah new voices and new recurring content is amazing
04:22:58 <sgp_> more more more
04:57:08 <sgp_> hello non-matrix users
04:57:18 <sgp_> irccloud is more reliable for once!
07:19:21 <Inge-> heh https://twitter.com/DarkDotFail/status/1359243753664303104?s=19
07:20:29 <modul8[m]> that is fine
07:21:51 <modul8[m]> fees are fine https://old.reddit.com/r/bisq/comments/lg0z62/wanted_to_use_bisq_to_purchase_btc_for_today/gmpjb0i/
07:32:14 <Inge-> of monero did btc transactions, and assuming best-case 1.42kb/tx, that would grow xmr chain 168GB/year
07:36:18 <modul8[m]> damn, how much gb does btc grow per year
07:36:54 <modul8[m]> at least storage is cheap
07:37:24 <Inge-> storage, bandwidt, initial sync, random access to retrieve mixins ...
07:59:54 <sech1> If monero did btc levels of transactions, I'd gladly rent a dedicated server with several TB's of SSDs just for monero node
08:18:21 <Inge-> Was there any irc discussion on the Tesla CCS proposal?
08:19:44 <sech1> No
08:20:05 <sech1> I went to sleep very late yesterday, like at 1am
08:20:14 <sech1> and there was nothing, and this morning it's already fully funded :D
08:27:30 <midipoet> tesla CCS? say what?
08:30:01 <midipoet> LOL
08:30:15 <midipoet> cheap (not so cheap) marketing trick.
08:30:29 <midipoet> but if some charities get electric cars they don't need, i suppose what is the harm
08:31:06 <sech1> not very well-thought, but I think the idea is to make some noise in media and count on Elon ignoring it
08:31:27 <sech1> so donations will be returned to participants
08:35:43 <midipoet> i mean, he is a business man, so ignoring a potential three car sale would be a bit silly
08:36:01 <midipoet> all you need is one enterprising Tesla sales clerk
08:36:43 <mechanic41turk[m> literally millions of people compete for elon's attention on twitter -- not sure if it will catch his.
08:37:06 <midipoet> maybe we could tweet some sales offices around the US/Europe
08:37:07 <sech1> I'm 99% sure this won't go anywhere with Elon
08:37:11 <sech1> but media attention, yes
08:37:17 <mechanic41turk[m> I agree that it's a cheap marketing effort (however, I applaud the effort)
08:37:31 <midipoet> yeah, feel the same
08:37:51 <mechanic41turk[m> and also a bit re-active on the part of monero community: it's like, we have seen elon's bitcoin moves, and we are now jealous.
08:38:05 <sech1> Monero shouldn't be trying to please the popular people, we're better than this
08:38:17 <mechanic41turk[m> such an effort to get monero into tesla payment should have been before tesla's bitcoin addition.
08:38:18 <midipoet> not exactly guerilla marketing - but fair game
08:38:24 <mechanic41turk[m> sech1: agreed.
08:43:26 <sech1> looking like a cheap shitcoin craving for attention
08:43:41 <mechanic41turk[m> oh well
08:43:47 <mechanic41turk[m> it happened now hasn't it
08:43:53 <mechanic41turk[m> we can't roll that back lol
08:43:59 <mechanic41turk[m> best to go with it.
08:44:06 <sech1> happened without a community discussion
08:44:16 <mechanic41turk[m> but for the next time, hold your horses people. And don't be that reactive to the news.
08:44:19 <sech1> I'd like to know whose idea it was
08:44:28 <mechanic41turk[m> I see.
08:44:39 <midipoet> it is strange that it went through without discussion
08:44:54 <sech1> I'm sure if there was a discussion, we could come up with a better CCS proposal. At least better wording in it
08:44:57 <midipoet> but i suppose someone controls it in the end, and they have the superpowers
08:44:58 <wowario[m]> Monero shouldn't be trying to please the popular people, we're better than this < agree
08:45:06 <sech1> "you have 21 days Elon Musk" I mean what the actual F
08:45:15 <mechanic41turk[m> LOL
08:45:33 <Inge-> what is the link to the proposal on git ?
08:45:47 <mechanic41turk[m> https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/monero-payment-option-tesla.html
08:46:00 <mechanic41turk[m> https://monerotesla.com/
08:46:35 <modul8[m]> musky is tweeting freewallet. did he not see the meme-o?
08:46:47 <sech1> ok, the actual wording about 21 days is ok on there
08:46:49 <midipoet> lol. cypherpunk cryptocurrency == begging Elon to accept some
08:47:03 <mechanic41turk[m> _If Tesla adds support to buy its cars with Monero, these cars will be given away to non-profit organizations that can use them to help others._
08:47:03 <mechanic41turk[m> How will this happen? Let's say we indeed buy 3 tesla model 3s. And we give those cars to charity for African kids starvation?
08:47:09 <mechanic41turk[m> Like, how does that make sense?
08:47:31 <mechanic41turk[m> Giving tesla cars to charity for drinkable water.
08:47:35 <midipoet> who controls press⊙go?
08:47:36 <mechanic41turk[m> and they will do what with the cars?
08:47:40 <midipoet> is it outreach?
08:47:42 <sech1> Charity employees need Teslas too!!!
08:47:44 <midipoet> or someone else?
08:47:44 <modul8[m]> fire the marketing guy out of a canon
08:47:50 <mechanic41turk[m> kek
08:47:58 <charolastra> "please elon, pump my shitcoin" ...
08:51:59 <midipoet> i feel like there is going to be a little storm over this. another day in moneroland!
08:52:15 <midipoet> Elon, ARE YOU WATCHING!
08:53:39 <modul8[m]> anything think he runs linux and using a password manager?
08:53:45 <mechanic41turk[m> WE ARE BUYING 3 TESLAS! WITH XMR!
09:01:07 <Inge-> Here is the discussion regarding this CCS proposal: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/209
09:01:39 <Inge-> Not much discussion really. luigi1111w made a call and pushed it without any community discussion.
09:04:50 <dEBRUYNE> <sech1> "you have 21 days Elon Musk" I mean what the actual F <= Yeah this seems a bit of poor form
09:04:56 <dEBRUYNE> The proposal shouldn't have a deadline
09:05:04 <sech1> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lgptpr/dear_monerotesla_proposal_you_do_not_represent/
09:05:04 <monerobux> [REDDIT] Dear monerotesla proposal, you do not represent Monero community (self.Monero) | 1 points (100.0%) | 0 comments | Posted by sech1 | Created at 2021-02-10 - 09:04:48
09:13:53 <wowario[m]> this is not the first time a "non-standard" CCS has been merged. if there is going to be exceptions over and over again, there are really no rules
09:40:59 <ErCiccione> There are already no rules really. Feels like every time we make rules there is an exception to that very rule two weeks later. That's part of the reason i don't really participate to community meeting, i don't see the point in discussing proposals.
09:48:11 <midipoet> i just want to know who was responsible. outreach say it's community - while there is no "community" discussion. seems a bit weird.
09:48:29 <fatcat[m]> I don't think elon musk would accept monero.
09:48:54 <fatcat[m]> Elon Musk is an agent for the establishment which favor bitcoin because bitcoin is a surveillance coin.
09:48:57 <fatcat[m]>  * Elon Musk is an agent for the establishment which favors bitcoin because bitcoin is a surveillance coin.
09:49:12 <midipoet> even if he does, it would have been better just donating the 890 XMR directly to charity
09:49:21 <fatcat[m]> He's a rich goffer.
09:49:39 <mechanic41turk[m> <midipoet "even if he does, it would have b"> This.
09:49:54 <fatcat[m]>  * He's a rich gofer.
09:50:08 <mechanic41turk[m> It makes no sense buying cars first and donating the cars to some African kids charity.
09:50:13 <fatcat[m]> Where exactly would you donate? Donate to monero development. Spending it elsewhere would be follish.
09:50:57 <fatcat[m]> African kids aren't going to even know what monero is. Their XMR will be stolen by someone else if you try.
09:51:22 <midipoet> fatcat[m]: what are you on about?
09:51:39 <fatcat[m]> The nature of donation.
09:51:50 <midipoet> you can donate the XMR to a charity, and they can exchange the XMR for whatever currency they require
09:52:42 <fatcat[m]> I don't trust most charity operations. Most of them are hoax.
09:52:59 <midipoet> that's a different discussion
09:53:04 <mechanic41turk[m> OK that's another topic
09:53:23 <mechanic41turk[m> The topic is why "monero community" undertook such a nonsense publicity stunt
09:53:41 <fatcat[m]> Perhaps, that's not monero community?
09:53:53 <mechanic41turk[m> Well that's what we are inquiring avout
09:53:56 <mechanic41turk[m> *about
09:54:13 <mechanic41turk[m> That's why sechp1 was asking when did the discussion occur.
09:54:41 <mechanic41turk[m> The crazy stuff is it got paid
09:54:51 <fatcat[m]> By who?
09:54:59 <mechanic41turk[m> I understand that the proposal for an atomic swaps got paid overnight.
09:55:17 <mechanic41turk[m> But such a nonsense proposal getting paid overnight is foolish if not suspicious.
09:55:46 <midipoet> maybe it was Elon himself!
09:55:56 <midipoet> maybe Elon is Satoshi!
09:56:01 <mechanic41turk[m> Well now whoever's in charge of CCS stuff has a responsibility for the people who paid.
09:56:02 <fatcat[m]> I don't think monero community would do that.
09:56:18 <mechanic41turk[m> What is he going to do with all that monero now?
09:56:29 <fatcat[m]> Give it back.
09:56:45 <mechanic41turk[m> How can he deduce accurately who paid how much?
09:57:19 <mechanic41turk[m> By reclaimants revealing their view key for the payment?
09:57:21 <fatcat[m]> I think there is a mechanism to verify payment?
09:57:34 <mechanic41turk[m> Maybe. Currently I am new to mobero
09:57:37 <mechanic41turk[m> *monero
09:57:44 <mechanic41turk[m> Still trying to wrap my head around
09:57:53 <mechanic41turk[m> Anyways. Going afk.
09:57:57 <mechanic41turk[m> Have a nice day.
09:58:29 <wowario[m]> bell can't be unrung. all we can do is learn from this misstep.
09:58:43 <mechanic41turk[m> I agree.
09:58:53 <mechanic41turk[m> Learn to be more cautious and level headed.
09:59:42 <mechanic41turk[m> And also learn from what this "error" revealed about CCS proposal vetting process.
09:59:56 <mechanic41turk[m> This error shows that there is something unexpected with that process.
10:00:13 <mechanic41turk[m> For the sake of future proposals, we should improve that process.
10:00:58 <ErCiccione> I'm more curious to know who labelled this as a "community initiative", spoke about privately with monero outreach and asked core to deploy it ignoring the rules. Not a single one of these steps was public. Yeah, that's how you do community...
10:02:03 <ErCiccione> we already went through the "we made a mistake, let's make rules to avoid it next time", but it's pointless if the rules that were agreed after long and multiple discussions are ignored
10:02:24 <Inge-> luigi1111w will wake up to an interesting discussion methinks.
10:04:02 <fatcat[m]> A group of people can inspire others to take action, but they can't rule others without threat of violence or extensive mind control.
10:04:17 <fatcat[m]> That's why rules are ignored.
10:05:13 <fatcat[m]> But, you can enforce rules algorithmically.
10:05:28 <fatcat[m]>  * But, you can enforce rules algorithmically in a system that people use.
10:06:18 <fatcat[m]> By the way, how is forum funding system run? Does the operator take fees?
10:06:24 <fatcat[m]>  * By the way, how is forum funding system run? Does the FFS operator take fees?
10:11:10 <midipoet> Inge-: could make it even more interesting if more people donated large sums from exchange wallets
10:11:59 <sech1> ^
10:22:50 <ErCiccione> I'm wandering if who came up with the idea of the "teslas for charities"  have ever met a poor person in their life.
10:24:53 <midipoet> poor people dream of Tesla's too you know
10:25:00 <midipoet> *Teslas
10:25:32 <sech1> first world problems, poor people need new Tesla there
10:25:42 <ErCiccione> jesus fucking christ
10:26:26 <sech1> Even I don't have a Tesla and I'm not poor even by first world standards
10:26:32 <sech1> I mean why would I want a Tesla?
10:27:10 <midipoet> cause Elon
10:27:12 <sech1> I use public transport and taxi, lol
10:27:19 <midipoet> ooooh Taxi.
10:27:24 <midipoet> aren't you lucky!
10:27:34 <sech1> Uber because it's cheaper :P
10:28:05 <ComplyLast> I mean they can sell the teslas I guess
10:28:17 <sech1> I'm a poor schmuck IRL :D
10:28:32 <midipoet> ComplyLast: what, at 30% depreciation straight away?
10:28:35 <ErCiccione> poor people dream of food every day and that going to the dentist when they cannot avoid it won't bankrupt them. People who only know about poverty because they saw oliver twist think of teslas
10:28:45 <Inge-> sech1: and good food in walking distance :P
10:29:38 <midipoet> ErCiccione:  cmon, be fair. Oliver Twist had some good songs in it
10:30:05 <sech1> I know what real poverty is, when my parents didn't get their salaries for months (90's Russia) and we ate potatoes only the whole time
10:30:18 <sech1> poor people need access to food, water and shelter before all. Not Teslas
10:30:34 <midipoet> sech1: what? eating potatoes all the time isn't weird? (from Ireland)
10:30:48 <sech1> They couldn't afford to _buy_ any food
10:30:54 <sech1> so it was potatoes from the land they had
10:31:13 <sech1> sweating every day the whole spring/summer to grow those potatoes
10:31:24 <sech1> and a bit of vegetables
10:32:00 <sech1> I hated going there to do an obligatory "gardening" :D
10:32:12 <midipoet> i don't know if you are serious or not!
10:32:21 <sech1> I am serious
10:32:29 <sech1> just google how poor people lived in Russia in 90's
10:32:30 * midipoet imagines sech1 ploughing the land
10:33:04 <sech1> government gave out land to people so they literally wouldn't starve
10:33:12 <sech1> the only good thing govt did in that period
10:33:18 <midipoet> i don't think Marxism is allowed to be talked about in here
10:33:23 <midipoet> sssh
10:33:36 <midipoet> thats a joke, btw!
10:33:39 <sech1> what's funny is that having a job didn't mean anything, you still wouldn't get salary :D
10:33:51 <Matt[m]2> Anyway, I imagine that the VALUE of three Tesla will be donated to charity. Not the actual cars.
10:34:07 <midipoet> Matt[m]2: what>
10:34:11 <midipoet> ?
10:34:25 <Matt[m]2> But I don’t know. The XMR/Tesla campaign is a little silly anyway.
10:35:09 <Beags[m]> Especially since it says having xmr as a permanent payment method isnt specifically required
10:36:01 <Beags[m]> its more of a marketing strategy than a ploy to get tesla to accept xmr
10:36:32 <Inge-> wen 1xmr = 1tesla
10:36:56 <midipoet> i do wonder whether peoples opinions will change  though if Elon does take notice
10:37:47 <sech1> takes notice of 21 days blackmail? Oh yeah
10:37:59 <charolastra> you guys assume that charity = for poor people like kids dying in africa. while there are charities for any kind of bullshit
10:38:05 <ErCiccione> They surely will and that will be even more sad
10:38:26 <sech1> Yes, there are different kind of charities
10:38:41 <ErCiccione> and none of them need teslas
10:38:42 <sech1> What good would 3 Teslas do for cancer research charity, for example?
10:38:52 <charolastra> not talking about cancer either
10:39:12 <charolastra> if you look at the proposal the first bullet point is: charity where privacy is important
10:39:29 <sech1> So, like what charity?
10:39:36 <ErCiccione> the teslas to be donated for charities are there only because otherwise the proposal would be just "let's beg Elon to mention Monero so it can pumps". Let's face it.
10:39:36 <charolastra> so it sounds like EFF
10:40:18 <sech1> or maybe charity to sponsor opposition in North Korea/Iran/Russia?
10:40:26 <sech1> yeah, privacy is important there
10:40:35 <charolastra> and those charities in hollywood make huge "fund raisers" where they huge dinners with Michelin cooks and all that fancy shit
10:40:36 <sech1> Teslas - not so much
10:40:41 <midipoet> wtf would the EFF do with a Tesla?
10:40:46 <sech1> Sell it?
10:40:51 <midipoet> raffle it
10:40:54 <charolastra> yes
10:40:55 <midipoet> i suppose
10:41:23 <midipoet> couldnt' we do a raffle for the 89- XMR instead? 1 XMR a ticket
10:41:24 <charolastra> "donate 10k and you have a chance of winning this tesla 3"
10:41:34 <midipoet> *890 XMR
10:41:57 <charolastra> "while you stuff your faces with caviar at our fancy dinner"
10:42:17 <midipoet> LOL
10:42:24 <sech1> I'm hungry now
10:42:28 <charolastra> i'm not even joking
10:42:50 <sech1> gonna cook my cheap $5 lunch
10:43:01 <midipoet> i am gonna go boil some lobster
10:43:14 <sech1> Rice and chicken
10:43:17 <sech1> and some ketchup
10:44:39 <charolastra> get on my level: intermittent fasting for today
10:46:20 <Mumuks[m]> <charolastra "get on my level: intermittent fa"> Only for one day? Amateur... IF is a way of life, just like monero
10:46:48 <charolastra> true. both fuck up your gains
10:50:29 <Mumuks[m]> <charolastra "true. both fuck up your gains"> Funny, but IF does not reduce your muscle gains, it can even increase it as fasting longer than 12 hours promotes growth hormone production massively
10:51:51 <charolastra> it does? i've just looked at the caloric defficit
10:53:03 <Mumuks[m]> Yes, that is the most accepted hypothesis as to why fasting can extend the lifetime of rats in experiments for example
10:55:37 <Mumuks[m]> After 12 hours of fasting (water fasting, dry fasting adds a different dimension) the body glucose levels are at lowest and the body goes into a mode some call starvation mode and starts recycling senesence cells for energy and increase production of growth hormone
10:56:03 <Mumuks[m]> Both removal of senescence cells and growth hormone have rejuvenating effects
10:58:26 <charolastra> interesting. will have to look into it. just trying it for the CICO balance for now
10:58:43 <Mumuks[m]> In fact, there was a recent experiment with 10 60yo, where they gave them massive amount of growth hormone together with anti diabetic medicine (supplementing growth hormone in excess causes diabetis) for a year. They measured several markers of aging at the beginning and at the end.
10:59:34 <midipoet> so are we now saying that poor people live longer?
11:00:02 <charolastra> no, even poor people can eat alot of shit
11:00:28 <midipoet> i was joking
11:00:30 <charolastra> and beeing poor brings other problems that influence lifetime
11:00:41 <Mumuks[m]> They expected the test subjects to age slower due to the GH supplementation, like for example they would have aged only half a year in the year of the experiment. To their surprise all of them showed younger years in the biological markers of aging at the end of the experiment than at the beggining.
11:00:56 <Mumuks[m]> Basically, the GH had made them biologically younger
11:01:38 <Mumuks[m]> And the anti diabetic medicine worked, no diabetes
11:02:46 <Mumuks[m]> Now they are looking for funding for a bigger sample experiment, with placebo and all the rigor. They did the 10 man experiment first because a year supply of the GH necessary runs at close to 1M per person.
11:03:29 <charolastra> well, which GH?
11:04:20 <Mumuks[m]> <charolastra "well, which GH?"> What do you mean?
11:04:59 <Mumuks[m]> I'm not sure what GH brand they uses exactly, you'll have to check the experiment
11:05:45 <Mumuks[m]> My point is that is proven that after 12hours of fasting the body increases GH production
11:23:56 <charolastra> i thought there are multiple growth hormones
11:51:57 <sech1> and so it begins https://cointelegraph.com/news/monero-community-wants-elon-musk-to-add-xmr-as-tesla-payment-option
11:52:28 <mechanic41turk[m> Ouch
11:52:36 <sech1> https://www.coinhashreporter.com/2021/02/monero-as-payment-option-for-new-tesla.html
11:53:02 <midipoet> > The effort was supported by a total of just 11 contributors, according to the Monero website.
11:53:04 <midipoet> LOL
11:59:52 <sech1> luckily these articles don't mention 21 days blackmail on monerooutreach
12:00:15 <sech1> This article must be taken down or rewritten in much more friendly way: https://www.monerooutreach.org/stories/elon-musk-monero.html
12:00:52 <sech1> the CCS proposal itself uses correct wording, I give them that
12:29:01 <antanst[m]> All that PR stunt crap is going to to more harm than good. What a disgrace.
12:31:35 <midipoet> but but but. it's Elon!!
12:32:25 <dEBRUYNE> Maybe stop acting like a bunch of drama queens
12:32:38 <dEBRUYNE> People here acting like a murder has been committed
12:34:27 <wowario[m]> backroom wheeling and dealing and then putting the "monero community" stamp of approval on it was highly inappropriate.
12:34:45 <jwinterm> there is always a lot of hand wringing about who fits in what monero camp/community/outreach org, and the core team/ccs is kind of an overarching organization that is supposed to be (from what I understand) mostly hands off and as accomodating to all as possible
12:35:02 <dEBRUYNE> Sure, said that somewhere else as well:
12:35:03 <dEBRUYNE> <dEBRUYNE> People seem to be quite worked up over this marketing stunt lol
12:35:03 <dEBRUYNE> <dEBRUYNE> I agree the usage of 'the monero community' is inappropriate and the proposal comes off as a bit cheapish
12:35:03 <dEBRUYNE> <dEBRUYNE> But other than that it is okay imo
12:35:14 <jwinterm> and this was rushed through with zero discussion and and stamped with "the monero community"
12:35:49 <jwinterm> I tend agree with the people saying this was probably not something the core group and ccs should have done with no discussion
12:35:50 <dEBRUYNE> Don't think rushing through is a bad thing if there is pre commited funds, should not have used the term 'Monero community' in that case though
12:36:19 <jwinterm> it could have been done by monero space or other splinter group if they wanted to do it with no discussion
12:36:42 <jwinterm> with that being said, hopefully it works out for the better
12:37:11 <ErCiccione> what about all the discussions about rules for ccs proposal. Where we agreed after hours of conversations to not rush ccs proposals to avoid... exactly this?
12:37:52 <dEBRUYNE> Most of those rules were put in place to protect donors and not to exhaust them
12:38:00 <midipoet> dEBRUYNE: that means i could propose to fund someone to work on Monero transparency, pre-commit funds, and it would go through after no discussion.
12:38:01 <dEBRUYNE> Different matter if most of the funds are precommited, imo
12:38:27 <dEBRUYNE> Evidently it has to have some merit for Monero, which such a proposal wouldn't
12:38:43 <midipoet> lets say i want Monero transparency for regulatory approval
12:38:48 <midipoet> is that not of benefit?
12:40:32 <sech1> depends on your definition of "benefit"
12:40:39 <midipoet> exactly. that's my point
12:40:54 <midipoet> it's gatekept my a small few in this case
12:41:03 <midipoet> whatever they decide is benefit, seems to be of benefit
12:41:20 <midipoet> hence this Tesla initiative
12:41:37 <midipoet> whereas if you ACTUALLY asked the community the answer may have been different
12:41:52 <midipoet> while  dEBRUYNE suggests that pre-committed funds changes the rules
12:41:56 <midipoet> which is horseshit
12:42:11 <midipoet> it's actually about what the gatekeepers felt was appropriate
12:42:21 <midipoet> call a spade a spade
12:42:33 <dEBRUYNE> If you want to twist my words, go ahead
12:42:57 <midipoet> i am not twisting your words.
12:43:03 <sech1> what does CCS stand for? Especially the first C?
12:43:12 <dEBRUYNE> You are
12:43:15 <midipoet> you said pre-committed funds changes the rules
12:43:16 <sech1> I didn't see much of C in that CCS proposal
12:43:26 <wowario[m]> so like that guy that wanted to have his tuition paid by CCS, if he would have had pre-committed funds it would have been approved with no discussion
12:46:15 <sech1> the other problem with all this is a reputation damage to CCS and Monero community as a whole. Things shouldn't be done behind the curtains here
12:46:39 <midipoet> i think the rule is if you have the money upfront, you can have curtains
12:47:30 <wowario[m]> and be exempted from community review
12:47:40 <midipoet> i think it's called a monerocracy
13:04:32 <dEBRUYNE> midipoet: I will write up my thoughts and we can go from there
13:08:38 <ssbrkN> /!\ this channel has moved to ##hamradio /!\
13:11:45 <nikowbd> /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
13:13:54 <Richard_CavellJZ> /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
13:14:17 <sech1> jess ^
13:14:52 <jess> thanks
13:16:15 <tcscTK> /!\ this channel has moved to #nyymit /!\
13:25:22 <kayront> fwiw i agree with dEBRUYNE here. i'd probably prefer if it didn't happen, but i'm not losing sleep over it
13:27:33 <ComplyLast> I agree with midipoet, dEBRUYNE, Mumuks[m], jwinterm, wowario[m]  and kayront
13:27:50 <ComplyLast> -Sigyn- Your actions in #monero-community tripped automated anti-spam measures (nicks/hilight spam), but were ignored based on your time in channel. Stop now, or automated action will still be taken. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact a member of staff
13:28:08 <ComplyLast> I'm getting silenced for mostly agreeing with wowario[m] I think
13:28:09 <jess> sigyn's in high alert
13:28:16 <jess> because of the network wide botflood just now
13:28:19 <ComplyLast> jk :)
13:28:23 <jwinterm> lol it is for pinging more than couple people I think
13:28:28 <jwinterm> although wowario[m] is very sus
13:28:36 <ComplyLast> jwinterm, dont destroy my personal narrative PLEASE
13:29:15 <ComplyLast> i just threw Mumuks[m] into it because his take regarding Hormone growth and the CCS was quite unique.
13:29:40 <Mumuks[m]> You are welcome
13:29:59 <ComplyLast> You really turned the conversation upside down. kudos.
13:32:05 <Mumuks[m]> Anytime
13:37:15 <ComplyLast> CCS rules should be the same for everyone, want to donate to something with your group and want it fast tracked use a different vehicle. case closed
13:37:30 <ComplyLast> no growth hormones required.
13:37:39 <ComplyLast> even though, fasting might help.
13:37:45 <sethsimmons> <ComplyLast "CCS rules should be the same for"> Totally agreed.
13:40:19 <midipoet> who was actually involved in the initiative and the decisions taken therein? or does that matter?
13:41:08 <sethsimmons> That hasn't really come to light yet beyond luigi1111w
13:48:55 <jwinterm> >use a different vehicle
13:48:59 <jwinterm> I see what you did there
13:49:35 <dEBRUYNE> midipoet: https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lgtvfd/the_reasoning_behind_monerotesla/
13:50:45 <wowario[m]> what " frontrun by a centralized coin with a warchest" means?
13:50:59 <ComplyLast> this being discussed on the CCS for a while
13:51:08 <ComplyLast> and wownero doing it instead for instnace
13:51:12 <ComplyLast> or some premined coin
13:51:27 <ComplyLast> I think it's a good argument
13:51:35 <ComplyLast> the problem is just the CCs usage imo
13:53:18 <ComplyLast> regarding wownero, not with your coins wowario[m], but with jwinterm's
13:54:25 <jwinterm> lol I don't think I have enough wownero to buy a single new car of any brand
13:54:31 <jwinterm> maybe some mini chinese thinger
13:54:34 <ComplyLast> yes, right.
13:54:41 <ComplyLast> yuuugeee bags.
13:55:29 <midipoet> dEBRUYNE: is that thread posted by you?
13:55:33 <midipoet> or someone else?
14:01:30 <sech1> jwinterm but can you buy a kick-bike at least?
14:01:59 <sech1> that would be fitting for Wownero CEO
14:02:05 <jwinterm> yes, who is the elon of kickbikes?
14:02:22 <ComplyLast> jwinterm is probably the worst CEO ever.
14:03:22 <midipoet> sethsimmons: i don't understand why whomever (except one brave soul) was involved in the decision making for this hasn't come forward and said so.
14:03:57 <sethsimmons> They have, robbyd, luigi1111w , and vikrants_ at least
14:05:05 <midipoet> so three people can veto the CCS?
14:05:18 <midipoet> am i reading that correctly, or not?
14:05:37 <sethsimmons> There were more I guess, but yes
14:05:47 <sethsimmons> As I've said, CCS should not have been used at all for something like this.
14:05:53 <sethsimmons> It was a poor choice.
14:07:00 <midipoet> i am sort of surprised there weren't "sponsored by" logos on the monerotesla wesbite.
14:07:09 <midipoet> should have just committed guys and girls
14:07:26 <midipoet> no people are left in this awkward no mans' land
14:07:33 <midipoet> *now people
14:11:28 <luigi1111> none of them were involved in "vetoing the CCS". I did that. The argument for fast tracking was sufficient to me. Whether such a project should be a CCS at all is a different question that I should perhaps have explored more before proceeding
14:12:30 <dEBRUYNE> midipoet: Someone else
14:12:35 <dEBRUYNE> I left my thoughts there
14:12:57 <midipoet> yes, i saw - thanks for clarifying
14:14:22 <midipoet> luigi1111: fair enough
14:15:10 <midipoet> now we just have put the process in place where luigi1111 can donate in person an electric car to an African kids cancer charity.
14:15:45 <luigi1111> this is food news
14:15:53 <luigi1111> or, good
14:16:00 <luigi1111> don't eat the car
14:19:50 <cankerwort[m]> Guys, Tron just got an emoji on Twitter. Gotta up the game.
14:20:21 <dEBRUYNE> luigi1111: Can I post that reasoning on Reddit?
14:21:20 <luigi1111> it's a public channel, go for it if it fits the context
14:21:30 <ErCiccione> Is my big picture correct? vikrants_ robbyd and sgp_ (i'm guessing from his comments on reddit) discussed the proposal with luigi1111, asking to quick-merge it because of $reasons. Luigi agrees with $reasons and that's where we are now.
14:24:08 <luigi1111> a few others but yeah
14:25:18 <ErCiccione> Alright.
14:26:23 <midipoet> i have a feeling that ErCiccione ain't gonna be a happy camper about this one!
14:27:13 <ErCiccione> the opposite. I made my points, luigi answered and agreed it was a mistake. It definitely ruined my day, but there isn't reallu much to say anymore.
14:27:28 <luigi1111> haven't had this much controversy since MEA I guess. nice shakeup
14:28:00 <luigi1111> or unnice maybe
14:28:27 <ErCiccione> it's just sad that now the entire community is tied to this
14:29:19 <midipoet> cypherpunks want to buy Teslas for charity! who doesn't love that?
14:30:12 <sech1> never thought I'd see these words in the same sentence :D
14:33:40 <kayront> >D
14:34:01 <kayront> buy your surveillance car with anonymous digital monies today!
14:34:10 <kayront> terms and conditions apply
14:38:17 <lh1008[m]> Wow, how fast merging. Congrats :)
14:42:30 <sech1> One more article https://www.coinspeaker.com/monero-musk-xmr-tesla/
14:42:36 <sech1> interesting bit about Freewallet in the end
14:49:57 <msvb-lab> binaryFate: I tried asking you before if you and Deedle think it would be good or bad to plan a 2021 use for Digital Renegades, for example a miniproject carried out together with my company Monero Devices?
14:50:53 <msvb-lab> ...just in case things go as assumed and there is no chance of a Konferenco or other replacement.
15:46:04 <seyawqmnx> Remember kids. If you call project coral reef for what it is - fluffy embezzling half a mil usd from the monero fund for a website with smaller adoption than monero woo plugin, you will get excommunicated.
16:03:00 <luigi1111w> this is coming out of the blue by now, but:
16:04:17 <charolastra> you're coming out of the closet?
16:06:23 <luigi1111w> "the Monero Community", the CCS, Monero: none of these are in existential crisis. The disparate responses, if anything, suggest we have a more "real" community than most projects. Yes, there are problems. Yes, we will iterate as needed and move past them
16:07:24 <sech1> not an existential crisis, but a certain reputation damage has happened
16:08:18 <luigi1111w> granted
16:08:35 <ErCiccione> and trust in the CCS was definitely hit
16:08:57 <charolastra> anything worse than beeing knows as the kiddy fidler coin?
16:10:06 <luigi1111w> happy to discuss CCS rules today or later, specifically probably making the 24hr rule "hard and fast". As in, if your proposal can't meet that requirement, "sorry, you'll have to get funding some other way"
16:16:01 <ErCiccione> 24 hours is even too few IMO, i would make at least 48. If you want your proposal to pass through the CCS you have to accept community discussion first. I would make that as a required rule (no more speed-merged proposals).
16:16:29 <kayront> fwiw, i find it hard not to agree with ErCiccione on the above
16:16:32 <midipoet> was the CCS even posted in IRC?
16:16:45 <midipoet> *before it got approved?
16:16:54 <luigi1111w> yeah I looked through the rules and couldn't find it
16:17:25 <ErCiccione> Sure, we would lose some proposals who cannot be public immediately as a result. But since this problem already happened before and now it's happening again, i think it worth it.
16:17:42 <sethsimmons> I would agree with that.
16:17:51 <sethsimmons> Set a firm time that is required to have passed before a proposal can be merged.
16:17:58 <luigi1111w> I'm on board. We should probably bring it up at a meeting before changing though
16:18:06 <sethsimmons> 2d won't break anything IMO, and gives at least some time before things progress.
16:18:11 <sethsimmons> <luigi1111w "I'm on board. We should probably"> For sure
16:18:24 <luigi1111w> "the 3 of us decided 48hrs is the proper time" :)
16:18:30 <sethsimmons> heh
17:13:23 <ErCiccione> What's going to happen now with this monerotesla project? Shouldn't they at least change the wording on the website?
17:14:03 <ErCiccione> Because the website is still being tweeted by people (including monero outreach few minutes ago).
17:15:35 <ErCiccione> but from the conversations on reddit seems that the proposal will be withdrawed? unclear
17:17:42 <ErCiccione> they also still have an official "press⊙go" contact on the page (the only contact actually). That should be changed as well.
17:18:33 <mechanic41turk[m> "Elon Mask, you have 21 days!!!""
17:18:45 <mechanic41turk[m> "Hurrr, add monero to your websiteee!!"
17:21:15 <thunderosa___> We've been updating the wording on the piece to make it more clear that it's a group within the community. I thought it was a MCW thing until this morning. They were discussing naming their group as something so we'll update again when things are clearer.
17:22:22 <ErCiccione> thunderosa___: in the meantime i would suggest to not tweet about it.
17:22:46 <ErCiccione> but you are talking about monero outreach, i'm talking about monerotesla.com, i don't know who manages that one
17:23:10 <xmrhaelan[m]> Monero Outreach is covering this, we are not organizing it
17:23:50 <ErCiccione> yeah i got that
17:24:17 <thunderosa___> I believe Justin is running that page.
17:25:21 <ErCiccione> ping sgp_
17:27:18 <ErCiccione> also robbyd
17:46:58 <sgp_> Is there anything in particular that's bad about it? Are you referring to "The Monero community has crowdfunded..."
17:48:07 <midipoet> thunderosa___: > I thought it was a MCW thing until this morning. > lead by who from the MCW?
17:51:50 <ErCiccione> sgp_: yes. Are you planning to keep the campaign going? If yes do you plan to make any kind of communication about the fact that the campaign is not run by the "Monero Community"?  I think i read something on reddit about using another name?
17:53:18 <thunderosa___> A bit of an assumption on my part. I was pinged to join by rehrar and then it seemed like roughly the old community workgroup in the chat. No one said it was MCW, I assumed.
17:54:50 <ErCiccione> if there is a separate chat with enough people to look like -community where such decisions are taken, it's a problem.
17:55:55 <ErCiccione> i hope the strategy now it's not just to be quiet and wait for people to forget.
18:03:24 <ComplyLast> sgp_
18:04:02 <ComplyLast> doesn't DV Chain source liquidity from exchanges? if so, that comment of yours on xmrtrader is just pure marketing shil
18:04:34 <ComplyLast> assuming DV Chain sources liquidity from Binance, Finex and Kraken, if all are down (which has happened) it doesn't matter if your api is reliable or not. you are unable to source liquidity.
18:09:54 <sgp_> fwiw, I think that "The Monero community has crowdfunded..." is not horrible wording, but I'm open to changing it if you like
18:10:08 <sgp_> certainly none of the other proposals received funding from anyone
18:10:25 <sgp_> and you could probably find opposition from at least someone for those
18:11:33 <sgp_> "members of the Monero community" perhaps?
18:12:45 <midipoet> Members of the Monero community funded...
18:13:46 <midipoet> As opposed to the "..community crowdfunded", makes more sense. Mainly as the community wasn't asked to fund the proposal, unless I missed that bit
18:14:13 <sgp_> well, members of the community were asked certainly
18:14:35 <sgp_> not every member obviously
18:15:20 <sgp_> ComplyLast: DV Chain also has its own supply of XMR
18:15:45 <sgp_> and its own set of other counterparties we trade with who are not exchanges
18:16:07 <ComplyLast> interesting
18:16:19 <ComplyLast> ty
18:16:39 <sgp_> ComplyLast: you are right, we definitely trade XMR on exchanges too. That's a big part of making markets
18:16:50 <sgp_> but no, we don't *only* do that
18:17:24 <ComplyLast> cool, thanks for the input
18:17:28 <sgp_> sure np
18:19:25 <ErCiccione> sgp_ do you mean that you still consider the campaign something created by the "Monero Community" even after the response on reddit?
18:20:01 <sgp_> ErCiccione: if we want to go down the semantics route, I think that nothing done in this workgroup either should be "by the Monero community" (generally)
18:20:34 <sgp_> but by any reasonable measure, yes, members of the Monero community donated to this proposal
18:20:47 <sgp_> so I can change the wording in that way
18:21:13 <sgp_> but the monero community does not equal "this channel only"
18:21:52 <ErCiccione> of course not, but it definitely doesn't mean "an indefinite number of people in a private chat"
18:22:05 <rehrar[m]> How many individuals is enough before it constitutes the Monero community?
18:23:42 <midipoet> More than what is in a private chat
18:23:44 <sgp_> changed to "Members of the Monero community have crowdfunded enough XMR to buy three Tesla Model 3 cars"
18:24:10 <sgp_> that is entirely accurate
18:25:20 <ErCiccione> that's appreciated
18:29:15 <rehrar[m]> Also, midipoet, you are incorrect that the only thing needed to get merged is precommitted funds. And the examples of lh proposal and stuff are way off base.
18:29:18 <kinghat[m]> my only gripe is not giving the community time to discuss. the majority of the ppl here are volunteers and when you dont give them a chance to speak on it, the project is turning its back on them. to me, they are the gas that keeps this engine going. im guessing it would have been rejected by the CCS and the tesla ppl would have to have done it on their own. imo this is dumb marketing and didnt warrant "fast
18:29:18 <kinghat[m]> tracking". maybe fast tracking should only be used in instances of past, funded and established CCS consumers?
18:29:33 <sgp_> ComplyLast: ohon the DV Chain discussion, one more thing
18:29:36 <sgp_> *on
18:29:38 <rehrar[m]> Core approval is completely needed.
18:30:57 <rehrar[m]> Core (there was more than one core team member present) did a value judgement and thought this was worth giving a go. The precommitted funds, plus the value judgment meant core was ok with a fast track.
18:31:00 <sgp_> I know it's a bit shill-y to say that the tech is so reliable, but it really is a differentiator for us. FIX/REST/Websocket are all super reliable and I know my team takes  alot of pride in that
18:31:14 <kinghat[m]> i wish it would have been discussed and another project took the idea before an approval could have happened 😆
18:31:22 <ComplyLast> Sure, I wasn't shitting on you guys
18:32:09 <ComplyLast> I heard you guys do a good work, it's easier to have an amazing FIX/REST/WS connection as an OTC desk than as an exchange serving hundreds of thousands of clients at the same time, so it's also an issue of scale.
18:32:42 <sgp_> haha yeah totally, we get a few high demand clients but the load is more predictable for most of them
18:32:53 <sgp_> we don't get 1 MM users showing up out of no where
18:33:30 <ComplyLast> hopefully monero volume treats you guys well.
18:33:45 <kinghat[m]> can we get an example where a fast track should be warranted? maybe that should be discussed first. imo this aint one of them.
18:34:23 <sgp_> ComplyLast: 🤞 most of our volume is in BTC/ETH/stables though
18:34:41 <ComplyLast> as everywhere else :)
18:34:47 <sgp_> haha yup exactly
18:34:50 <kinghat[m]> like, moo is on his death pasture, he needs the funds stat or his hooves wont make it 🐄
18:35:24 <sgp_> kinghat[m]: lmao @ "death pasture"
18:35:42 <ComplyLast> kinghat[m] critical protocol issue that needs immediate attention or dev funding, etc
18:35:43 <kinghat[m]> nobody in the community would dispute that fast track.
18:35:56 <ComplyLast> stuff like this would qualify for a waiver imo
18:36:57 <kinghat[m]> i think outlining a few examples would help in comparing things like "teslas for charity" to 🐄...
18:39:12 <kinghat[m]> i still lubs luigi1111w though 🥰
18:39:21 <Inge-> This shows Monero has a vocal community that can and will speak up. That is a goid thing.
18:39:28 <Inge-> good*
18:39:53 <mechanic41turk[m> hafl the glass full.
18:39:57 <mechanic41turk[m> half*
18:40:07 <Inge-> It does not need consensus, but it requires to be heard.
18:41:07 <ComplyLast> monero fixes this.
18:41:25 <ComplyLast> I kinda still lub luigi1111w too
18:41:32 <ComplyLast> kinda being the key word there.
18:48:16 <midipoet> rehrar[m]: value judgement?
18:48:21 <midipoet> It's a marketing trick
18:48:34 <midipoet> A promise of potential charity, under the pretence of a bribe
18:49:56 <rehrar[m]> You guys rage about there being no CCS discussion,  but literally none of you come discuss during meetings or even comment on most proposals. XD
18:50:32 <xmrhaelan[m]> <Inge- "This shows Monero has a vocal co"> Here here!
18:50:46 <mechanic41turk[m> I am actually "raging" about nobody being in the presence to tell you that how ridiculous the whole thing sounded.
18:51:13 <mechanic41turk[m> Teslas for charity, if elon adds monero payment option?
18:51:20 <mechanic41turk[m> this thing is ridiculous twelve ways to sunday
18:52:26 <nioc> wen pump
18:52:59 <nikg83[m]> <nioc "wen pump"> Already happened, back to down trend now 😅
18:53:00 <rehrar[m]> On this I don't disagree.
18:53:09 <Inge-> rehrar[m]:most people never exercise free speech either
18:53:40 <rehrar[m]> I'm picking at the rage at the system that nobody takes part in.
18:53:55 <mechanic41turk[m> I see.
18:54:16 <rehrar[m]> Because of the lack of engagement in vetting CCS proposals, there are so few comments (if any) so most CCS proposals come down to me and Luigi discussing them anyways.
18:55:19 <rehrar[m]> We hold meetings so people can comment. Nobody comes to the meetings. And also (and this is especially hilarious to see), the people that are at the meetings don't talk or comment when proposals are discussed.
18:55:48 <rehrar[m]> So we "move on to the next one" so there isn't silence in the room for five minutes.
18:56:39 <midipoet> rehrar[m]:  that's bullshit. The last few meetings you were organising and it wasn't clear when they were
18:56:45 <mechanic41turk[m> Me, personally, only recently started attending. Some of the stuff that discussed last time was above my expertise in order to comment (example: anon's proposal for p2p protocol, and some other coding CCS)
18:56:55 <midipoet> A number of times people came in to clarify
18:56:57 <rehrar[m]> Midipoet you act like this hasn't been a thing for literally years.
18:57:12 <midipoet> I specifically asked you to do the usual GitHub issue so people could put up agenda items
18:57:14 <midipoet> You didnt
18:57:23 <ComplyLast> inb4 midipoet's sockpuppets invade the meeting on the 23rd
18:57:24 <midipoet> So don't come round saying nobody gives a shit
18:57:28 * ComplyLast grabs popcorn
18:57:37 <rehrar[m]> Midipoet you act like this hasn't been a thing for literally years.
18:58:04 <midipoet> The people involved in this Tesla shit show should just have the backbone to say it was morally dubious on a number of levels
18:58:05 <midipoet> End of
18:58:13 <midipoet> Not to then blame the community for the mess
18:58:24 <midipoet> That just fucking takes the piss
18:58:41 <kinghat[m]> i think silence is a form of agreement as most CCS proposals are sane. there are examples where the community was like, "thats going to be a no from me dawg."
18:58:57 <rehrar[m]> I'm not blaming the community. I'm saying people coming in with a moral high ground are, as you say, taking the piss.
19:00:55 <rehrar[m]> I will publicly say I somewhat regret my involvement (fetching people and making the site code upon request) and am sad that the community feels they have been failed. I don't like how this ended up, and I'm reflecting on my role in it.
19:01:17 <kinghat[m]> plus, if you give people the opportunity to discuss and they dont bite, they have nothing to go on. not giving them the option is a different ballgame. you cant then say, "well you guys dont usually participate."
19:01:28 <midipoet> ^
19:01:38 <rehrar[m]> But having to listen to these people above it all who don't usually get into the nitty grittys of the system themselves is annoying.
19:03:32 <midipoet> the nitty gritty is that proposals are discussed. The nitty gritty is that there are VERY FEW crude marketing attempts made by Monero. And even fewer that involve "potentially" donating cars to unnamed charities.
19:03:42 <midipoet> And yet some people actually thought it was a good idea
19:03:58 <midipoet> If Nano had done it, what would the XMR community have said?
19:04:07 <midipoet> Would they have said "great idea"?
19:04:46 <midipoet> I would hazard a guess not.
19:04:59 <midipoet> Yet for some unbeknownst reason, a group of individuals thought it was
19:05:18 <midipoet> And used a community funding vehicle to pass it off as a community effort.
19:05:22 <midipoet> That's the nitty gritty
19:05:36 <kinghat[m]> its moot now but does anyone think this would have passed if given the opportunity for discussion?
19:05:59 <midipoet> I think it would have merited a pretty long discussion
19:06:14 <midipoet> And I would hazard a guess there would have been people on both sides
19:07:16 <kinghat[m]> i think that all of the non participating participants that frequent these parts wouldnt have let it fly, but thats me.
19:07:39 <mechanic41turk[m> <kinghat[m] "its moot now but does anyone thi"> nope.
19:08:04 <mechanic41turk[m> I for one, if saw that in this chat, would sound against that.
19:08:38 <kinghat[m]> i still lubs you too rehrar[m] 😘
19:08:59 <midipoet> And what's even worse is that some people involved even made distinct efforts in the recent past to form a seperate entity for this type of stuff, and yet for another unbeknownst reason decided against framing it under that entity.
19:09:11 <midipoet> So at this stage who the fuck knows!
19:09:12 <rottenwheel> No one goes to the meetings because there's no change in channel topic (MOTD), nor GitHub issues, nor clear outlined agendas, nor broader call for meetings i.e. posts on /r/MoneroCommunity, or even Space's Twitter handle. Not to bash on that argument, as I as well can understand there might be people who aren't deeply involved and take a moral high ground.
19:09:12 <mechanic41turk[m> It's not love/hate directed towards individuals. It is whether that proposal makes sense from monero's PR.
19:09:30 <rottenwheel> * No one makes it to the meetings because there's no change in channel topic (MOTD), nor GitHub issues, nor clear outlined agendas, nor broader call for meetings i.e. posts on /r/MoneroCommunity, or even Space's Twitter handle. Not to bash on that argument, as I as well can understand there might be people who aren't deeply involved and take a moral high ground.
19:09:38 <midipoet> mechanic41turk[m: it definitely doesn't. It's on par with the hookers and blow bullshit in 2017
19:09:56 <rottenwheel> * No one makes it to the meetings because there's no change in channel topic (MOTD), nor GitHub issues, nor clear outlined agendas, nor broader call for meetings i.e. posts on /r/MoneroCommunity, or even Space's Twitter handle. Not to bash on that argument, as I as well can understand there might be people who aren't deeply involved and take a moral high ground. (Like me?)
19:10:50 <kinghat[m]> we had hookers and blow in 2017?
19:10:58 <xmrhaelan[m]> <midipoet "And what's even worse is that so"> Very good point.
19:11:42 <xmrhaelan[m]> Mistakes were made. I wish people would just own up to it, learn from them, and move on.
19:11:56 <bevanoff[m]> fwiw ive been trying to get involved in meetings for a little while now but ive only been able to catch one of them. it doesnt look like there's a schedule like posted anywhere
19:12:49 <mechanic41turk[m> Yeah, the meeting dates should be made more visible.
19:13:38 <sgp_> midipoet: it was a different group of people than Monero Space jfc lol
19:13:49 <mechanic41turk[m> For example, I am pulling r/Monero posts via rss to my computer. And I don't remember seeing them being announced there.
19:14:39 <midipoet> sgp_: so it was just you from Monero space involved?
19:15:16 <sgp_> I was only helping out by myself there yeah
19:15:27 <sgp_> believe it or not I am also a person
19:15:37 <midipoet> Fair enough. Then I apologise for insinuating it was a Monero space effort
20:20:51 <geonic> wasn't Seth Simmons also involved?
20:20:59 <sethsimmons> No
20:21:11 <sethsimmons> I knew nothing about it till it went live :)
20:21:14 <geonic> you did tweet about it before it launched though?
20:21:23 <sethsimmons> It was already live on the CCS
20:21:33 <sethsimmons> In Funding Required
20:22:18 <sethsimmons> Not sure what it matters if I was involved or not FWIW, but I was not.
20:23:02 <geonic> only because sgp mentioned that he was the only one from monero space. doesn't matter really.
20:23:29 <sethsimmons> Witch hunting I guess 🙃🙃
20:23:38 <geonic> https://twitter.com/sethisimmons/status/1359322690620952580
20:23:42 <rottenwheel> 😂
20:23:44 <sethsimmons> Thought the effort was interesting when pre-funded
20:23:59 <sethsimmons> But definitely see the CCS route was a bad decision and wording needed to be updated as well.
20:24:38 <geonic> witches tend to gauge their audience better (:
20:25:30 <sethsimmons> <geonic "https://twitter.com/sethisimmons"> Yeah it was already live and being funded.
20:25:31 <sethsimmons> But keep hunting
20:25:41 <sethsimmons> You're doing good work trying to find out who needs to be burned at the stake for their sins.
20:26:50 <geonic> lol. I just find it funny that the originators of the idea and the people who whispered in luigi's ear are noticeably absent from the mea culpa on Reddit
20:27:17 <geonic> or are we to believe that an anon account we've never heard of has the clout to push through an idea through CCS without discussion?
20:27:17 <sethsimmons> What do you mean?
20:27:45 <sethsimmons> Think you need to read backscroll
20:27:49 <sethsimmons> All this has been discussed at length.
20:31:18 <nioc> I didn't see the originators of the idea mentioned
20:31:31 <nioc> could have missed it
20:32:40 <sethsimmons> Most or all have mentioned it
20:32:42 <sethsimmons> And one posted on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lgtvfd/the_reasoning_behind_monerotesla/gmtf5t8/
20:32:43 <monerobux> [REDDIT] The reasoning behind monerotesla (self.Monero) | 46 points (73.0%) | 163 comments | Posted by xnovaxcp | Created at 2021-02-10 - 13:42:51
20:33:59 <nioc> no idea who that person on reddit
20:34:00 <nioc> is
20:34:37 <sethsimmons> New to the community AFAIK
20:35:00 <sethsimmons> Woops meant to link the the post itself: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lgtvfd/the_reasoning_behind_monerotesla/
20:35:01 <monerobux> [REDDIT] The reasoning behind monerotesla (self.Monero) | 50 points (73.0%) | 163 comments | Posted by xnovaxcp | Created at 2021-02-10 - 13:42:51
20:35:03 <sethsimmons> Not that individual comment
20:35:06 <sethsimmons> but still
20:36:05 <nioc> new to the community has that much pull
20:36:06 <nioc> ?
20:37:56 <sethsimmons> I think they go by robbyd here
20:38:07 <nioc> also new
20:38:11 <sethsimmons> Idk if "pull" is the right word
20:38:13 <sethsimmons> They were involved
20:38:18 <nioc> ok
20:38:20 <sethsimmons> It was a group of people
20:38:35 <sethsimmons> The rest of whom are "OGs" in Monero/Core FWIW
20:39:23 <nioc> have only looked a the broad strokes
20:42:10 <sethsimmons> There's no clear list or anything AFAICT
20:42:22 <sethsimmons> But many people have mentioned they helped or donated.
20:48:39 <midipoet> https://reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lh30c8/monero_community_divided_over_150k_tesla_pr_stunt/
20:48:40 <monerobux> [REDDIT] Monero Community Divided Over $150K Tesla PR Stunt | Crypto Briefing (https://cryptobriefing.com/monero-community-angered-150k-tesla-pr-stunt/) to r/Monero | 1 points (100.0%) | 2 comments | Posted by IWriteCrypto | Created at 2021-02-10 - 20:29:26
20:49:41 <midipoet> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/2gxwKSDQ
20:49:58 <midipoet> How in god's name people think ^ is a good idea is beyond me
20:51:09 <midipoet> It's basically "ask charities to beg for Teslas that probably won't arrive as it was really just a PR stunt to bring attention to a cryptocurrency"
21:09:32 <xmrscott[m]1> <sethsimmons[m] "I think they go by robbyd here"> Yes, this is the individual doing a quick look up FWIW: https://www.crunchbase.com/person/robby-dermody
21:10:27 <xmrscott[m]1> The robbyd handle isn't in -community, but they are parked in -space if anyone wants to chat with them
21:10:48 <luigi1111w> also in -site
21:55:54 <nioc> .usd y up
21:55:54 <monerobux> Monero price in USD = $174.38
23:01:51 <gingeropolous> cause tesla pamp obvi
23:02:11 <gingeropolous> 1-800-pmpnero