<ivaylo7s> Proposal for translation to German: [ivaylo7s-Translation and review of GUI Wallet, monero-site, Monero Means Money (subtitles), Sound Money, Safe Mode (subtitles) to German](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/184)

oof

Say goodbye to privacy wallets like Samourai

at least they did it under protest

For sure

Thats a very bad next step for regulation if it comes to other countries

Got the same invitation to "verify address" from AnyCoin Direct, Netherlands also. And no more XMR, of course. Extremely useful for me :)

Should change their name to somecoinsdirect

lol

what happens if they just impose the same rules on XMR?

The address registration/verification rule

This has been on the horizon for some time to come and is it really that suprising?

* This has been on the horizon for some time to come and is it really that surprising?

sethsimmons: when you say goodbye to privacy wallets, who do you see that playing out?

* sethsimmons: when you say goodbye to privacy wallets, how do you see that playing out?

I see a tremendous obstacle in the enforcement of such actions

* I see a tremendous obstacle/challenge in the enforcement of such actions

And a privacy wallet is no more dangerous to the state than a privacy coin in and of itself

if you're going to attempt a ban on a wallet (which is basically a bandaid) why not go for the head of the dragon and ban privacy coins when the political support is there?

I am honestly starting to think they will (ban privacy coins).

Oh it's coming...just wait.

They call them anonymity coins/anonymity enhancing coins

And just say it's unlawful/dangerous/danger to nation security/economic stability

If not now, then within five years

Unless banks take a stand (doubtful given the threats to their licence and little upside)

They'll let bitcoin fly in the name of technological progress, but privacy coins will be drug under the cloak of "financing of terrorism and child abuse" use case. It's the governments go to anytime they seek to instill fear in a populous and push through legislation that probably doesn't make sense

The only think (which that Dutch article points to) is if someone takes a court case and says it's a disproportionate violation of privacy and self determination

And call in the UN rappatuer for such

*calls in

The other option is to make a stance that a permissionless network is owned by its node operators

And then there may be a private property right of some sort

'Code as Free Speech' will be challenged at the highest levels

I think anyone who thinks there won't be a big struggle for the heart and soul of privacy is incorrect.

<rehrar "I think anyone who thinks there "> 100%

The war is coming. Encryption is under attack again, delisting and other regulations, etc. There will be a war. It's a matter of when.

And we can't think we can sit on our laurels and things will just work out. Even with prior judicial precedent.

rehrar: then we should start a CCS for the lawsuit now

That's the only way

I would be willing to help write it up

We have two options. Data protection violation, or human rights/disproportionate behaviour direction

that's the only way this would get solved.

Otherwise we are shouting into a void

I would go with human rights. It would hopefully establish precedent (or further enforce) that privacy is a human right that can't be taken from us. Intrinsic to people.

data protection is also a EU Fundamental right

Either the way, the next question is who to suppeona

*either way

And that's a more difficult question

could you sue a central bank, for arguments sake?

unknown. This is your homework. ;)

Lol

You might be able to sue one of the independent bodies such as the FCA, or the Payments Systems Regulator.

For negligence/malpractice

With regards to financial privacy

Someone shared an unbelievable document with me the other day. Did I share it here?

Relax guys, the WEF says you will love having no privacy in 2030

oceanus[m]: to be honest the whole "transparent world for everybody" might be a noble goal in theory - but it's proven that privacy hierarchy just gets created by the free market.

midipoet: big brother loves you

lol

like the more i look into it (as part of research groups), the more i am convinced that they want the bitcoin model for the data. its hugely valuable being able to track, trace, analyse, and then discriminate/manipulate according to the information they have discovered about spending patterns, habits, relationships, etc.

midipoet: similar

The argument made is that due to fundamental asymmetry, privacy destroys more than it protects.

Although to me, the opposite would also be true. Transparency would also be used to destroy much more than it would be used to protect.

rehrar: yeah - you have shared that before on reddit, and we discussed it ;-)

though, the complete transparency model - might be able to bring down capitalism

as that is based on fundamental information asymmetries

if everyone knows the markup of and supplier of a product, well, then everyone (in theory) has access to the profit.

this line of argument can also be applied to NDAs, Trade secrets, etc

I like the whole 'bring down capitalism' meme as if it's now settled economics

sure, but sometimes (just personal belief) i do wonder whether i would give up my own privacy to ensure that the rich and the evil corps had to give up theirs.

alternatively, i get to keep mine, but they keep theirs.

its not an easy dilemna to solve, imo

agreed. A nuanced conversation.

the rich will always have power

it's like.....defined

midipoet: upon a bit of thought, Monero actually works in the opposite direction

rather than forcing transparency that is expected from the common man on the rich, it gives the common man power to similar levels of privacy that have previously only been available tot he rich

*to the

yeah. that's fair

but is that a better world?

it's up to what people individually believe. I believe it's something that would bring about change. Let me outline the mechanism.

while i know it's probably better for me, i don't know if its better for everybody

Under one framework of thinking, the rich have been able to evade taxes through their privaacy means and offshore accounts for a long time. This puts undue burden on the common man to pay for society. If the common man now has the way to hide and evade tax as the rich due, it would cause the infrastructure to rot.

This forces far reaching tax reform. Hopefully this reform would cover the rich and common person to a more egalitarian degree.

Basically, change only happens as society begins to collapse in this method.

This would also take a long time, as the free market would pick up a good amount of the slack, effectively masking the visibility of the rot for some time.

Under another worldview, it allows "trade secrets" to become "personal secrets", effectively setting up everyone on an individual level to have leverage in a capitalist system that they didn't before.

that's fair.

but the world is already collapsing

its gonna get horrid in the next 10-20 years

i would imagine

Before, corps would utilize connections and their status to keep things private. These avenues were not available to the common person. While Monero wouldn't solve the 'connections' problem, it does allow everyone to have an edge in capitalism since, in theory, more things are private to the individual.

rehrar - in reality though, Monero only helps the priviledged

not teh rich - but the rich AND the priviledged

or educated/developed nations, whatever

i mean, my mother - there is no way she could use Monero.

this is true, people in Nigeria have to pay per MB for their internet still. Monero will not help them.

but its not only technical exclusion. there is operational exclusion

midipoet: but the same could also be said of the internet. It's fairly easy to use, but for many older people it's caused more harm than good. Taking their job, falling for scams because they're not savvy.

The internet is also operationally exclusive to the older generation.

my mother, sister wouldn't be able to use it. my gf only barely. jesus - even i struggle most of the time and get stuck on things

this is where the coveted "better UI/UX to prepare it for the masses" thing comes in. I personally think it's a pipe dream. You can only optimize and abstract so much before you end up with custodial wallets.

we already have a custodial system

There will always be some level of investment and learning necessary to 'be your own bank'.

i would hazard a guess 90% of wallet/usage is custodial

and yes, the VAST majority of people are not ready or willing to be their own bank

so cryptocurrency will always be niche ;)

maybe not 90% in Monero, but certainly wider

<rehrar "so cryptocurrency will always be"> I disagree, USB wallets are easy to use

Banks are hard to use, we are just used to them

most people cannot handle keys, are bad with password management and have zero idea of the danger encryption can pose if they lose control of their personal data and ultimately lose control of their funds.

banks are inconvenient to use. I wouldn't say hard. Especially since there's a person holding your hand if you need.

there is no recourse with encryption. there is no recourse to recover lost funds.

the difference between inconvenient and hard, to me, is loss

with a bank, it may be frustrating to use, but I know that few, if any, of my decision will result in the complete loss of my money

crypto is both frustrating to use, and several decision you make may result in the complete loss of your money

this is more than inconvenient. It's hard.

yep

I talk to people who struggle with it everyday and choose to remain on the sidelines out of fear of looking stupid or losing control of positions

what banks give you is a trust framework that protects me from myself (losing my debit card) but also to protect me from the other (fraud, scams, etc). that is a massive value added, that in no way exists in cryptocurrency

I'll be spinning up my own Monerobox this weekend if anyone wants to follow along

I may need some CLI help

I bought a node from monerobox.store and it's pretty slick

and if you have some spare machine with docker, there is like one line ...

^