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sarang
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sgp_
thoughts on that one sarang?
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Inge-
is that title ... literally true?
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Inge-
ah, there is a subtext to that statement "... when considering evidence of illicit use in practice"
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rehrar
Forgive my tears of joy rbrunner
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rehrar
Or rbrunner7, I think you're here via mattermost?
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rehrar
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monerobux
[REDDIT] rehrar transparency report (self.Monero) | 2 points (54.0%) | 18 comments | Posted by Rehrar | Created at 2020-09-15 - 18:26:43
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xmrmatterbridge
<rbrunner7> Yeah, here on Mattermost I am "rbrunner7", while directly on IRC simply "rbrunner". Somewhat historical reasons.
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xmrmatterbridge
<rbrunner7> You are welcome, and I do think you certainly do not deserve some of the comments that were made there.
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geonic
Well, I had a feeling that the "with their own money" part wasn't going to fly under the radar. :)
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ErCiccione
yeah. I really dislike the notion core team money == their personal fund
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ErCiccione
As i said in my comment i'm also very concerned about the fact that the general fund will be empty soon and core doesn't seem to have a plan to not let that happen. I offered some mitigations but never heard an answer from them.
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ErCiccione
We are lucky that now tari and globee take care of most of the expenses, but if that changes for any reason we are fucked. and the general fund has no income reguardless tho
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rehrar
ErCiccione: you are incorrect. Core does not manage this money on behalf of the community. Management implies that at any time, the original giver can take it back. If I manage the money for my cousin, they can come and ask me not to manage it anymore, or give them what I have.
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rehrar
This doesn't happen with core. Core cannot give this money back to the original donors. The donors have entrusted this money to core. It is theirs to spend as they please.
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rehrar
So rbrunner7 was correct.
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ErCiccione
I don't see it that way. People give those money to core to use for the development of Monero. That doesn't mean they should spend it as they please. Sure they could since those money are donated, but that doesn't mean it's part of the "social contract" they have with the community
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rehrar
An example that helps to clear this up. What happens if the community decides core is "mismanaging" this money? Their only option is not to donate further. They have no way of getting any donated money back.
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ErCiccione
again. i don't think that the fact that people cannot have their money back means that core has their personal money. Those are funds of the community and should be treated as such. of course the only choice the community has is to not donate further, but that doesn't change the reason why they have those money.
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rehrar
I think it's an important distinction to make. It let's people know the actual extent of the trust they are giving core when they donate.
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rehrar
It is not funds of the community. It is funds used FOR the community, and FROM the community. But it is not the community's funds.
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rehrar
If this rubs people the wrong way, then they are free not to donate. It is indeed more power and trust given to core than most realize.
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rehrar
In a sense, this is why the CCS was created to begin with. To give an alternative to "trust core completely". It lessens that to "trust core as arbiters". It's also why the CCS has more written rules about its use.
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ErCiccione
It is an important distinction. If core thinks the general fund is their personal treasory i invite them to declare it as such, because personally i consider the general fund a fund made of community money that they are entrusted to manage
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rehrar
Now, all this to say, core has done a decent job so far of using the GF for what they think are uses of furthering Monero and in the community's best interests, but that's neither here nor there if someone doesn't like the trust model.
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rehrar
The reason I say that last part is because I believe that if the community and core had a disagreement, that core would bend their knee to the community. This is because of their role as stewards of the project, which they take seriously.
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ErCiccione
I think that a clarification from core is needed. I remember the general fund being advertised as "a fund for paying infrastructure and unexpected expenses". Now the fund is not serving that purpose, but for paying a community member for his work. I think this plus the fact that this expense wasn't made public until years later is the reason why the community is not taking this report well. And i cannot blame
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ErCiccione
them.
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ErCiccione
Important: my point is not related to the actual value of rehrar's work, only about management/transparency of the general fund
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rehrar
Though maybe it's time that you do make a statement on your perception on the value of my work. You are a very trusted community member after all.
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rehrar
Too many of these "I'm not saying anything about rehrar" things. The broader issue needs resolution, yes, but so does the immediate one.
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rehrar
Maybe it's time for me to be done? Maybe not? Who knows. Core can't act on community sentiment if community never gives it about specific issues.
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rehrar
There's a lot of complaints recently that core doesn't act on community will, when there's very little discussion about immediate issues, only about broader ones. Test their mettle. See if they actually respond to community will by giving telling it to them. :D
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rehrar
I realize I'd do much better by keeping my head down and letting this blow over as most things do, but perhaps that's not as valuable as getting honest feedback.
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ErCiccione
I think you are missing the point. For how i see it the issue is not about the content of your work, but it's about the management of the general fund That's why i always left that aside. Personally i think that using the general fund to pay a salary without having a plan for when the fund will be empty is quite insane and doomed to create a lot of controversies. That's the immediate problem that needs a
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ErCiccione
solution.
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ErCiccione
There's a lot of complaints recently that core doesn't act on community will <- what are you referring to rehrar?
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rehrar
Question on that then. I was working on a thing to give GF some income (albeit it wouldn't be much if at all) in Monero FM. And yet your recent reddit comment says that you don't think I should count that as hours because of conflict of interest.
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rehrar
So now I'm in a catch22. I can't work on getting the GF more money, but if the GF doesn't have consistent income then paying my salary is insane and doomed.
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rehrar
So who will work on getting the GF money?
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ErCiccione
Yes, it's an ambiguity of course.
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ErCiccione
Because in any case when you will work for filling the community fund can be seen as a conflict of interest. I'm not blaming you for that, merely pointing out the fragility and forced ambiguity of your position
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ErCiccione
That's why it's important that core comes out for a plan to deal with this situation
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ErCiccione
*with a plan
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rehrar
I see. Well I'll pass this along and make sure it comes to their attention.
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ErCiccione
I hope they are reading these conversations tho, it's quite an important matter
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rehrar
I'll do my best to make sure they do.
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rehrar
Anyways. Almost 2AM here. Off to bed. Night!
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ErCiccione
good night!
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ErCiccione
is it ajs who made the "Community & Key Aspects" monero video? i don't recall
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ajs-mob
i helped out with writing the script
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ErCiccione
Got it. Do you know where i can find the original video? so we can upload it to getmonero
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ErCiccione
freenode_ajs_[m] ^
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ajs-mob
savandra has the originals
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ajs-mob
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monerobux
[ Monero - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
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ErCiccione
Do you know how i can contact them?
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selsta
Is it me or did Monero FM get merged with barely any discussion?
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ajs-mob
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monerobux
[ Monero - YouTube ] - www.youtube.com
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ajs-mob
I emailed him last year about transferring the channel and getting the originals of all the explainer videos, but he didn't respond.
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ErCiccione
freenode_ajs_[m]: Yeah i remember writing him at that email address long time ago and didn't get any answer. i managed to contact him somehow but don't remember how :/
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ErCiccione
selsta: Was merged quite quickly. The people who commented seemed to agrree about moving it to funding required, but yeah i see your point. Would have probably been better to wait a bit more.
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selsta
I still have questions, e.g. is rehrar going to use core team paid time to be DJ?
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sech1
If he goes to Monero world tour as a DJ, why not?
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selsta
ErCiccione: btw still not a fan of translating the user guides
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selsta
some information there is super niche or outdated
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selsta
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selsta
no reason to advertise nicehash
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selsta
a lot of guides are obsolete with your GUI guide
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ErCiccione
I understand. The work on translating the guides has been ongoing for some time and now there are 3 people working on those. We can remove the guides we think are not useful (i agree about the nicehash one), but i don't think the GUI guide replaces aimed single user guides
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selsta
I don’t see why we should maintain duplicated infomation.
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selsta
information*
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selsta
we already fail to maintain the guides we have
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selsta
(not directed at you)
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selsta
maintaining stuff is difficult
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selsta
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selsta
this also seems quite outdated unless I don’t understand what this is
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selsta
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ErCiccione
You mean you would remove the user guides and point people to the GUI guide instead? let me say that nobody ever maintained the guides, so yeah, they are all sort of outdated in the terminology. I updated the super outdated ones, but they would all need a refresh
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selsta
yes
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ErCiccione
getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/Offline_Backup.html -> the content of this should be still good. The terminology is outdatred i agree
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ErCiccione
i think we need to have a much wider and deeper discussion if we want to remove the user guides (i disagree) and halt the work of translators
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selsta
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ErCiccione
Also, rating89us (i definitely mispelled their nick) is currently working on updating those guides
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selsta
this one also, rbunner might say more but monero multisig is quite in early stages and might change a lot, don’t know if it is worth it to translate those
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ErCiccione
and is planning of adding new ones
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ErCiccione
mmh, i see. That guide is been up for a long time, so it's already translated in some languages and yeah, translators are working on it
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selsta
I just worry that it is not worth the effort translators put into.
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selsta
I see more value in e.g. the GUI, or basic website stuff
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ErCiccione
I see your point. I can ask translators to not translate some guides if we want, but that would create problems with those who have CCS proposals related to those guides
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selsta
The same way I think CLI is not worth translating
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ErCiccione
The difference is that i already tell translators to not work on CLI stuff unless they are bored and have nothing to do. The CLI is also currently locked on weblate
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selsta
ok
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selsta
yea I would do similar for the guides until we have them updated / removed the useless ones
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ErCiccione
I see and i agree, but i don't think this should effect the ongoing CCS proposals.
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ErCiccione
fwiw the user guides and the moneropedia are always the last things i tell people to translate. I will just ask to not translate the user guides until we have figured out how to act about that (as i said, excluding already ongoing CCS proposals)
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selsta
ok
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selsta
yea
getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/Offline_Backup.html still looks good, the dependency part could be removed
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ErCiccione
let's move this to #monero-site :)
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rehrar
Selsta no I wouldn't get paid to DJ. There's a lot of one-time work that would need to get done, like taking our video content and turning it took audio content.
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rehrar
But that only needs to be done once per video. Besides that there's monthly reports on songs that need to get done and set in to be in compliance.
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rehrar
And a few other administrative like tasks.
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rehrar
As for song selection, for the most part it will be chosen automatically. If I do DJ an hour or so, rest assured, it will be on my own time.
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h4sh3d[m]
Hi everyone - we've updated the CCS proposal to include some first feedback such as including a non-technical paragraph for end-users.
repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/168
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sarang
Can you paste that specific paragraph in a gist or pastebin? Doesn't seem to be an easy diff
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h4sh3d[m]
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sarang
Oh that's right, it's also in the actual commits :)
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sarang
thanks
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Lovera[m]
Hi guys, can somebody explain me plz, what is "Adrress Monero starting with 5"?
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Lovera[m]
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selsta
stagenet lol
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nioc
0xd882cfc20f52f2599d84b8e8d58c7fb62cfe344b; Digital Currency Address - XMR
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nioc
the 5 is LTC
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Lovera[m]
Lol i think that stagenet start with 9
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nioc
the one that starts with 5 is LTC
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nioc
the xmr address is not an address lol
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Lovera[m]
<nioc "the one that starts with 5 is LT"> no, i think they refer to Monero
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sarang
If only there were a way to display tabular data in HTML
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sarang
some kind of... table
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jwinterm
they must have copypasta'd wrong or something
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jwinterm
it's only 64 char
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Lovera[m]
I think so
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nioc
so I'm wrong again
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nioc
you guys should be used to that
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sarang
Sooooo are they claiming that a stagenet address is somehow restricted/flagged?
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jwinterm
no it's not a valid xmr address
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jwinterm
unless there's some short form address I'm unaware of
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sarang
Or if they flagged some representation of a tx or output
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sarang
Which is also not really useful
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xmrmatterbridge
<cankerwort> Yeah that is a stealth address right?
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xmrmatterbridge
<cankerwort> Or whatever we are calling them these days
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jwinterm
maybe it is a payent id
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jwinterm
payment ids old style are 64 char
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jwinterm
I believe
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hyc
hm that sounds right
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hyc
but lol at that then
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sarang
Clearly their A-team is working on that address list
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hyc
it's cleartext in the blockchain, so I guess you could find all txns with that payment ID
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Lovera[m]
<jwinterm "maybe it is a payent id"> Mmm any way, is amsl not useful
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xmrmatterbridge
<cankerwort> That's like banning an arbitrary string for reference for bank transfers
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sarang
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monerobux
[WIKIPEDIA] Illegal number | "An illegal number is a number that represents information which is illegal to possess, utter, propagate, or otherwise transmit in some legal jurisdiction. Any piece of digital information is representable as a number; consequently, if communicating a specific set of information is illegal in some way..."
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Inge-
What is the shortest illegal number?
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zkao
its a trap, dont do it
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jwinterm
420.69
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Inge-
zkao: how can I know to avoid it, if I don't know what it is?
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midipoet
say what, illegal number.
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midipoet
i suppose some words, and hence their sounds have been banned in the past
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midipoet
their sounds == how they sound when spoken
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kayabaNerve
midipoet: The one I know of is the one used for DVD copy protection in America
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kayabaNerve
Because having it is technically in violation of a patent or some other similar bs
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needmoney90
kayabanerve yeah 09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
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kayabaNerve
needmoney90: imagine forcing a friend to have illegal content on their computer :(
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kayabaNerve
Definitely not like Ubuntu's default install includes it in a package without the technical legal licensing anyways
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needmoney90
after the debacle in 2007 about muh speech freedoms, that string is as good as public anyways. No one's gonna prosecute for it anymore.
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needmoney90
Still funny to call it an illegal number and then post it tho :p
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midipoet
i wonder does anybody have it tattooed on themselves/a private part
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sarang
o_0
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jwinterm
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jwinterm
semi-private?
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jwinterm
depends how puritanical you are I guess
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rehrar
.usd
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monerobux
Monero price in USD = $88.33
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rehrar
Ick!
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rehrar
monerobux!
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monerobux
rehrar!
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rehrar
Erciccione if you ever don't k ow what your name is, just shout monerobux!
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nioc
don't shout
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nioc
just exclaim
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midipoet
jwinterm: outstanding!
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jwinterm
:P
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jwinterm
it's not me
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sarang
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sarang
(a) that's not a Monero address
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sarang
(b) that list includes other assets besides Monero
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sarang
I emailed the author of the article
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selsta
lol what a trash article
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sarang
Treasury sanctions Monero addresses (payment IDs)! (and other asset addresses)