-
needmoney90
So, with this ciphertrace stuff, do you think think we can effectively say we have successfully made Monero too traceable for criminals like WannaCry, but still completely private & fungible?
-
needmoney90
👀
-
» needmoney90 trolls
-
» Thominus Keccack hashes needmoney90 8b3390c4247e6dfbf94d1416b882365cc80217e17b14ee574828e0c98099e1c0
-
Thominus
hmm no I guess it would be 1a09cb96f883e74acdb2228ff48333a76157ac5c7bf8ca212a1989e8b2f8f030
-
needmoney90
just fyi xmrhaelan, the guy in that thread is a writer for cointelegraph who has written *numerous* hit pieces on Monero in the past, his ethics in journalism are practically zero in my eyes
-
needmoney90
I would recommend giving him the cold shoulder.
-
needmoney90
We shouldn't lend our credibility to him, or his outlets.
-
needmoney90
his main account is banned in so many subreddits for shilling dash that he's made a new account to ban evade and post about it
-
xmrmatterbridge
<xmrhaelan> needmoney90 thanks for the insight. I try to err on the side of good faith until given a reason to think otherwise. This is a good reason.
-
needmoney90
main username is thedesertlynx, you've probably heard the name before
-
needmoney90
some recent gold from his post history is complaining about "censorship" in /r/btc because his posts and comments get downvoted
-
needmoney90
because apparently downvotes mean he's being censored and this is unacceptable
-
needmoney90
followed by agreeing with fireice that Monero is a cult lol
-
needmoney90
("agreeing" is perhaps stretching it a bit)
-
» needmoney90 stops wasting his time
-
needmoney90
If ciphertrace did research for the DHS, that research should be available to FOIA, no?
-
asy
hi Bessie72Pfanners
-
fluffypony
needmoney90: I'm surprised thedesertlynx is still around
-
fluffypony
would have thought he'd have given up by now
-
needmoney90
Whats your assessment of him?
-
fluffypony
like a dog with a bone
-
fluffypony
doesn't know when to let things go
-
asy
.rip Bessie72Pfanners
-
monerobux
(X_X) ☜ (◉▂◉ ) we hardly knew ye
-
fluffypony
and thinks that shouting at people will make them become Dash True Believers
-
rehrar
if he shouted at me I'd join :(
-
rehrar
but he never has
-
kinghat[m]
-
sgp_
All news is good news I guess
-
msvb-pub
Hello.
-
sgp_
Is that Ubuntu conference still happening next week? The one that was supposed to be in Portugal and Monero was invited to?
-
msvb-pub
Good question sgp_.
-
Guest10458
no meeting today?
-
msvb-pub
Do we have a meeting today?
-
msvb-pub
rehrar?
-
kinghat[m]
Bueller?
-
Guest10458
There should be one
-
msvb-pub
sgp_ Where do we get information about the Ubuntu conference you wrote about?
-
Guest10458
If rehrar is not around, i can host the meeting if people are up to having one
-
lh1008[m]
Hello everyone
-
xmrscott[m]
Semana Aberta do Centro de Reabilitação Profissional de Alcoitão (
wiki.ubuntu.com/ConferenceAppearances )
-
xmrscott[m]
Presumably
-
Guest10458
Is anybody around for the meeting? Let's make a round of greetings to see if people are around for the meeting.
-
Guest10458
Hi
-
lh1008[m]
o/
-
lh1008[m]
Hi
-
rehrar
Oof. I spaced.
-
rehrar
But Erciccione, you can still run. :D
-
rehrar
I'd like to see you do it and have you as a backup.
-
rehrar
Also change your name from Guest10458
-
Guest10458
no go ahead rerhar.
-
rehrar
Ok cool. Sorry for my tardiness everyone. We can get started.
-
Guest10458
I already moderated some community meetings btw. happy to help if needed :)
-
rehrar
1. Greetings.
-
rehrar
Who all is here?
-
lh1008[m]
O_
-
Guest10458
am i guest again? ffs
-
kinghat[m]
👋
-
hyc
hi
-
sethsimmons
Hi all
-
sgp_
Hello
-
rehrar
Cool. Decent crowd.
-
rehrar
2. Updates
-
rehrar
I'm going to try to merge several things here, but let's have workgroups first.
-
rehrar
Once again, I'm going to try the format of, if you head or are involved in a workgroup and you have an update, please say so and give it.
-
rehrar
ErCiccione, xmrhaelan, lh1008[m], dsc_, selsta, dEBRUYNE
-
lh1008[m]
Hey everyone
-
rehrar
got an update on outreach?
-
selsta
we are preparing for v0.17 release, not much else
-
selsta
going smooth for now
-
lh1008[m]
So, outreach workgroup, we finally merged Russian PSAs
monerooutreach.org/monero-Лучший-практика
-
lh1008[m]
We're almost finishing the Quickfacts sheet too. It's being re-design, so we are going to give out something easier to hand out to people in several languages
-
rehrar
Neato
-
lh1008[m]
Triptych article was launched, we're catching up with all languages at god speed, and organizing how we are going to open more languages for the site
-
lh1008[m]
More news about this we might have for next meeting
-
lh1008[m]
:)
-
rehrar
to clarify, ErCiccione localization people aren't really involved in the work of Monero Outreach or they are?
-
kinghat[m]
your articles are really awesome 🙏
-
lh1008[m]
Well, I would say yes, but everyone is free to come and go.
-
lh1008[m]
Netrik182 helps out, erciccione is our lead maintainer in the repository
-
sgp_
Triptych article was especially awesome
-
lh1008[m]
so erciccione is really heavily involved with outreach
-
ErCiccione
rehrar: Some of them are. I also maintain the repository where translations are submitted (so i also review them)
-
rehrar
funky on the surface, but checks out further down
-
rehrar
cool deal
-
rehrar
any other updates?
-
ErCiccione
Nothing particular from me
-
ErCiccione
for both website and localizations
-
sgp_
Our next Monero Meet is next Saturday if you want to join
-
ErCiccione
will do call for translators for the GUI and an update about the website soon
-
rehrar
Monero Space is technically a new workgroup. So you guys can update here also if you'd like.
-
lh1008[m]
Not that I can remember today, but thanks for letting us reach the Monero community :)
-
rehrar
Can I....make a little request/complaint?
-
lh1008[m]
Is there's a Monero Space IRC channel?
-
sgp_
#monero-space
-
lh1008[m]
Yes, please punch me
-
rehrar
When I redesigned the Monero website, I was hamstrung by several people who wanted Monero to keep that FOSS feel (i.e. kinda bad looking). I'm neutral to positive about how the design ended up.
-
rehrar
I think it could have been taken a lot farther, and improved a bunch. But the community liked it, so it is how it is.
-
rehrar
My design firm is recently redoing Zcoin's site (not on core time obv) for their rebrand, and it bums me out. Cuz I went all out on that design, and it looks pretty rockin', and I didn't get to do that for Monero.
-
lh1008[m]
I like the design, is the design not FOSS? Maybe I'm a little lost here
-
rehrar
I wonder if people in the community would be open to a fresh look. Not restructure. ErCiccione has been doing a great job.
-
rehrar
*great job on that front.
-
sethsimmons
Would LOVE to see a second look taken at the website design
-
sarang
What's your vision for an update rehrar?
-
rehrar
lh1008[m]: when I say FOSS, I don't mean that the code itself is open source. It is. I mean that many FOSS projects have awful websites.
-
sethsimmons
There are some great ones out there, would be good to see proposals for refreshes
-
sgp_
What other priorities would this bump?
-
rehrar
And many of them are proud of that fact. "It shows we put our effort into the code not the marketing" that kinda thing.
-
hyc
well yeah, there can be such a thing as too slick
-
rehrar
sgp_: Monero FM for now. We got the approvals all around, and opened the CCS (which we'll talk about later in this meeting).
-
rehrar
Also, it will be alongside Grayhat (which we'll also talk about)
-
ErCiccione
I think if we want to refresh the website, we should take in consideration fixing a lot of deep issues first. The last redesign broke a significant amount of things. Some of those are hard to fix now because we have so many languages. So i think the idea of a deep redesign should be weighted carefully
-
hyc
it took quite a long time just to revampe the download page
-
rehrar
ErCiccione: true, but there's no commitment to it necessarily. I can make a front page mockup, and we can see if it's good enough to offset the cost of working through it
-
» sgp_ goes to tweet about the open CCS
-
lh1008[m]
@rehrar you design zcoin site?
zcoin.io
-
rehrar
ErCiccione: a redesign might also be an excuse for me to focus some of my time on working with you to fix those deep issues.
-
ErCiccione
rehrar: Sure, but i would still prefer to dedicate time in fixing the core problems. Adding/editing a moneropedia or user guide is still a massive pain and impossible to maintain
-
sgp_
Oh, it's not open yet
-
rehrar
lh1008[m]: no. I didn't make that.
-
rehrar
lh1008[m]: they are rebranding. I'm making their new site. It's not done yet.
-
lh1008[m]
oh, okay :D
-
rehrar
sgp_: I meant it's on Ideas, and will be discussed. Not in fr. Sorry for confusion.
-
rehrar
Anyways, it's just an idea I want to bring up to gauge possibility and interest.
-
ErCiccione
My opinion is that sure, a redesign would be nice, but i really think that fixing core problems (which have nothing to do with the design) should be the priority
-
sethsimmons
Combining a re-design with simplifying contributions to guides/Moneropedia would be a good path forward if possible.
-
rehrar
ErCiccione: that'd entail a move from Jekyll, I think
-
ErCiccione
to what?
-
rehrar
Which, tbh, I'd be totally for that. There's a few new ones around (like Hugo or whatever) and I think they have some things in the base installation that Jekyll devotes to plugins.
-
sarang
Brief interjection, that I hope accessibility is specifically considered in any updates or redesigns
-
rehrar
sarang: in what way?
-
sarang
Good accessibility benefits all users
-
sarang
Ensuring that things like color design, screen reader compatibility, etc. are considered
-
hyc
friendly to screen-readers perhas?
-
rehrar
ErCiccione: you and I should talk in the next couple of days. I'll poke at a few other static site generators.
-
hyc
as well as responsive to mobiles
-
sgp_
It's a major selling point of the current site
-
sgp_
Honestly rehrar, a full redesign is much less important to me than, say, redoing the community page
-
ErCiccione
sure. But please let's not over simplify this task. We have a huge amount of translations that would need to be transferred to a brand new system. Without counting all the docs and strings. Such massive change would take months. Does it really worth it?
-
sgp_
That's been on the docket for years now
-
rehrar
sgp_: we can do all of the rest of the restructures alongside the redesign
-
rehrar
ErCiccione: I understand the gargantuan nature of this thing.
-
ErCiccione
sgp_: I was thinking of starting work on the community page soon. It has been waiting for way too long now
-
sgp_
Let's rename it "communities" :)
-
ErCiccione
yeah we will talk about that in the issue. For now i'm trying to simplify the way the moneropedia works. Editing 24 files every time we add a file is madness
-
ErCiccione
*every time we add an entry
-
sgp_
Yeah that's insane
-
ErCiccione
and will get worse with every language added (and 2 new languages are comingsoon)
-
ErCiccione
That's why i'm very skeptic about a redesign.
-
rehrar
ErCiccione: yes, this was discussed when I first added the multilingual plugin. I said it would be impossible to scale.
-
lh1008[m]
From the spanish community we have been thinking about something
-
rehrar
I was told we'd cross that bridge when we come to it. :D
-
rehrar
lh1008[m]: go ahead
-
ErCiccione
rehrar: To be honest i think that plugin was implemented incorrectly during the redesign. Many problems could have been avoided. The plugin is quite versatile to be honest
-
lh1008[m]
I would like to say it before we close the meeting, this could help in the redesign and stuff, removing so much workload to some community members. Not sure how it would sound but I'll throw it out.
-
rehrar
ErCiccione: my lack of skill as an engineer shows again
-
rehrar
ok, I'll make sure to come back to you then lh1008[m]
-
rehrar
let's move forward for now
-
lh1008[m]
We were thinking why not create from the Official Monero Core address an account address for each language. Donations for each language
-
rehrar
CCS stuff
-
rehrar
oh, lol. Ok. Go ahead.
-
rehrar
lh1008[m]: what would be the purpose of this?
-
lh1008[m]
Every language will have displayed an address and those communities (spanish, french, turkish, etc.) will have to find ways to develop themselves. A more decentralized nature of working and "pushing" the communities to work for themselves.
-
lh1008[m]
Like if every language is a node
-
lh1008[m]
This will help activate IRC channels for each language, put poeple to work
-
rehrar
and Core team would hold the keys to all of them? Who decides how the funds are dispersed?
-
hyc
www.domain/en/index.html www.domain/de/index.html etc...
-
lh1008[m]
That's something that needs to be discussed.
-
ErCiccione
Just a final note on the website. We can and we have to fix the problems i mentioned. The plugin scales well, but we have to move every single moneropedia and user guide entry. Which is a massive job (which, as i mentioned will get worse with time). If people are up for it, we will have to discuss how to deal with that very soon. It will need a lot of dedicated time
-
lh1008[m]
The same as there's Monero Core, there could be Monero Core Es (spanish), that comply to follow community rules but with responsibilities
-
rehrar
lh1008[m]: what stops someone from starting a Monero Spanish workgroup and putting up a donation address and stuff? Without involving core?
-
rehrar
ErCiccione: my job is literally doing dedicated time things that nobody likes to do, so I'm up to put my hours there until it's done. Starting whenever you need me.
-
lh1008[m]
No one, I was going to do it anyway. I wanted to throw the idea here and hear from you all
-
rehrar
lh1008[m]: it sounds nice in theory, but all of these other core teams would have much less power than regular core just by nature of not having access to the repos. So it would make sense to think of them more as workgroup leads rather than core teams.
-
rehrar
But that's just my thoughts.
-
rehrar
Anyone else?
-
lh1008[m]
The spanish community already exists, the same as french, italian, etc.
-
ErCiccione
rehrar: Alright, that's actually very good. I'll think about an attack plan. I might need to make a bigger ccs proposal (because this will be a long and very boring work)
-
lh1008[m]
yeah, but decentralizing funds
-
lh1008[m]
Removing the heavy bags from the center and putting them in different parts
-
lh1008[m]
decentralization
-
rehrar
lh1008[m]: I wouldn't mind if people from a different language group banded together and made their own self-funding, self-sustaining groups to get stuff done.
-
rehrar
If you need resources, please let me know what would be needed to make this happen.
-
lh1008[m]
Okay rehrar, thank you :)
-
rehrar
Sure thing.
-
rehrar
NOW CCS :)
-
rehrar
let's get the easiest one out of the way first
-
rehrar
-
rehrar
German translation stuff for User Guides
-
rehrar
yay nay?
-
ErCiccione
^ i gave her suggestions about how to structure and write the proposal
-
ErCiccione
She is one of the most active contributors and i would really like to see moneropedia and guides translated
-
ErCiccione
So, that's a yay for me
-
rehrar
I defer to your knowledge here, so that's a yay from me as well.
-
rehrar
such power that you wield
-
lh1008[m]
yay
-
selsta
Are there any outdated guides on the website?
-
ErCiccione
unlimited poweeeeer
-
selsta
These should get removed before they get unnecessarily translated
-
ErCiccione
selsta: I updated the super outdated one. They are ok now. Some need new screenshots but they are all in good conditions now
-
ErCiccione
i should take a deeper look tho
-
ErCiccione
consider we have already a contributor translating them in norwegian as we speak
-
rehrar
ok, I'll pass it on to luigi that we think it should be moved
-
rehrar
next up
-
rehrar
-
rehrar
Monero FM
-
selsta
wrong link?
-
rehrar
-
rehrar
lul
-
rehrar
needmoney90: you here?
-
ErCiccione
My only skepticism is that an online radio will take really a lot of time and effort. Especially in the terms is being proposed
-
sgp_
Yeah it's a full time hobby
-
asy
i think that something legitimate wouldn't have the same charm as wow!radio :P
-
ErCiccione
I worked in a radio part time for quite a bit of time. I was shocked to see how much time and preparation a very short transmission would take
-
rehrar
asy: charm? maybe not. Power and reach? much more so
-
sgp_
It's a low initial cost though and Doug seems interested
-
rehrar
yeah, to me, this seems like something to try for a year. It may not suck. If it does, we don't have to renew.
-
sgp_
I think I'd ideally prefer for it to be independent of the CCS though
-
lh1008[m]
A radio station is heavy stuff, but it could be worth it. El monero spanish podcast could help with content (just saying; can't really speak from them but I have been hearing their podcasts lately)
-
rehrar
lh1008[m]: I think a lot of our audio/youtube content can be recycled to play at different times.
-
sgp_
Yeah
-
rehrar
ok, so overall thoughts rated 1 (worst idea ever) to 5 (best)
-
rehrar
?
-
lh1008[m]
yeah, true dat
-
rehrar
er, let me change that scale
-
sgp_
I'm 4/5 for moving
-
rehrar
1 (don't merge) 5 (merge)
-
lh1008[m]
5
-
rehrar
alright. We'll move on to the lat one.
-
rehrar
*last
-
rehrar
-
rehrar
atomic swaps implementation
-
rehrar
it's had a lot of discussion already
-
rehrar
mostly revolving around breaking it up into smaller CCSs, to account for lessons learned from past, long-term proposals
-
ErCiccione
My opinion is the same. Split it in two and let other projects fund half or at least part of the efforts
-
sgp_
Do we even know of who else would pay for this?
-
rehrar
and these projects will fund in Monero?
-
dEBRUYNE
I think a split in 4 would even be more reasonable
-
rehrar
we can always ask Incognito :P
-
sgp_
It's fine in theory to say BTC communities should pay somehow, but we need to find them
-
rehrar
they keep trying to chum up to me and others
-
dEBRUYNE
Also vtnerd makes a good point that 'It almost certainly needs to undergo review before the community funds $280k for an implementation.'
-
rehrar
so fund a protocol audit first?
-
sgp_
Hmm, maybe the Audit workgroup should have a discussion :D
-
rehrar
to the auditmobile
-
rehrar
ok, that one is still relatively fresh, so I think we can sit on it for a bit
-
rehrar
msvb-web: are you here?
-
rehrar
last thing before open ideas time (OIT) is a bit of grayhat discussion
-
rehrar
for those of you that are unaware, Monero was invited to do a Monero Village at Grayhat, similar to how we do at Defcon. It's online-only.
-
rehrar
-
dEBRUYNE
rehrar: Perhaps not a full audit, but having another set of eyes have a look at it wouldn't hurt I guess
-
rehrar
in the absence of msvb, I'll take over discussion and will defer if he appears
-
rehrar
we're still looking for anyone interested in doing a virtual presentation
-
rehrar
ErCiccione: even you could do one. No cam, voice changer. Talking about the difficulties of working in FOSS stuff.
-
sgp_
Who's giving a presentation atm?
-
ErCiccione
mmh, not a big fan of the idea, but i will think about it
-
rehrar
myself, ArticMine, michael. That's it confirmed so far.
-
rehrar
Don't remember if intj440 was down.
-
ErCiccione
Thanks for thinking of me though, would be really interesting to speak about that
-
rehrar
as well as speakers, we could potentially use volunteers for a few different things
-
rehrar
such as fleshing out the CTF we had, and/or making other fun puzzles as a part of our village
-
rehrar
these puzzles can then be reused for defcon
-
dsc_
$280k??
-
dsc_
w0w
-
rehrar
also, on a similar note, I think the word going around from C3 people is that it will not take place physically this year. A few rumors going around about what they're going to do about it virtually.
-
rehrar
Which means, my travels for this year are officially done. Both a relief and a bummer.
-
rehrar
dsc_: got a feather wallet update?
-
dsc_
sure just check my twitter ;p
-
rehrar
barring that, we can move to OIT, and if there's nothing there we can end.
-
rehrar
OIT! Anyone have something fun to share?
-
rehrar
I probably should have put my redesign discussion here, but I set a bad example. :(
-
dsc_
Btw, both CTF and Radio are things I pioneered!!
-
asy
dog bless
-
rehrar
yes
-
rehrar
dsc_: is literally the big man on campus
-
rehrar
wait, no
-
rehrar
the new ctf is one that needmoney90 made
-
dsc_
Sorry for derailing the meeting at hand lol
-
rehrar
tracking challenge
-
asy
needexploting90
-
rehrar
unless you pioneered that too
-
asy
needexploiting90 even*
-
dsc_
needmoney made a puzzle not a Ctf
-
dsc_
</pedantic>
-
dsc_
A Feather update; we got .appimage to work for those that love appimages
-
dsc_
So our CI/CD currently spits out: Windows / Linux / AppImage builds
-
rehrar
Woot
-
rehrar
Ok all. That's it for now. Again, sorry about my tardiness.
-
rehrar
Meet in two weeks.
-
rehrar
Bai!
-
dsc_
bye
-
dsc_
I'm available for Feather questions RIGHT NOW
-
dsc_
ANYONE GOT SOMETHING!??!1
-
ErCiccione
Why "feather"?
-
rehrar
Because a pound of feathers weighs less than a pound of bricks.
-
dsc_
Linux builds to a 30mb archive as opposed to 100mb for the Official GUI, also the UI doesnt require as much graphical power, Feather will probably run on a Pentium 3
-
dsc_
feather was our internal dev name, after "molectrum", and it just stuck ;p
-
dsc_
But it encompasses what we try to achieve: basic looking UI, a fast/robust/stable program that looks like any other program
-
dsc_
Bitcoin's Electrum AppImage is about 2x as big and starts 3x as slow
-
dsc_
gottagofast
-
kinghat[m]
did you make a feather irc channel or whatevs?
-
dsc_
#feather on OFTC
-
dsc_
freenode is not Tor friendly
-
kinghat[m]
hmm
-
asy
dsc_: tor signups are coming soon(TM). you'll have to do some proof of work and then they'll let you sign up without using a clearnet address
-
ErCiccione
Got it. Thanks
-
derpy_bridge_
<[discord] CiPhEr#2091>: is there a reputable onion block explorer for xmr you guys would suggest using? I would just like to use it to check block height, learn more about network, etc thanks!
-
ErCiccione
xmrchain.net
-
derpy_bridge_
<[discord] CiPhEr#2091>: ok cool i'll check it out, thanks!
-
derpy_bridge_
<[discord] CiPhEr#2091>: is there a reputable onion block explorer for xmr you guys would suggest using? I would just like to use it to check block height, learn more about network, etc.
-
derpy_bridge_
<[discord] CiPhEr#2091>:
-
derpy_bridge_
<[discord] CiPhEr#2091>: I know I could compile and use the onion explorer with my node but my use case would be to get a second opinion of state of network from different node than my own. Thanks!
-
derpy_bridge_
<[discord] CiPhEr#2091>: (edited)