Can anyone join the community meetings or do we have to spectate?

lza_menace: they’re open to all AFAIK

Coffee chats are a bit different of course

Community meetings are moderated but public.

Thus far there haven't been many agitators (only had to step in twice that I can remember)

If it got to be a problem we'd probably move to needing +v during the meeting hours, but I'll cross my fingers we don't have to do that.

Yeah, they have been a thing for like 2.5+ years, very little drama fortunately

A good portion of it is workgroup updates, but occasionally they'll ask for feedback, questions. Always an 'open ideas' bit at the end at least :)

<xmrscott[m] "Would anyone be interested in a "> yeah, I would be interested.

<xmrscott[m] "We could federate w/ most of the"> why are we banning Nazi ones especially?

<needmoney90 "That being, explicitly not allow"> Yes.

Also, I heard that Pleroma instances are much more lightweight, and still can federate with Mastodon instances.

My stance with banning federation to other instances would be: do nothing. Do not ban. Let the commies, the nazis, the progressives, the conservatives, the-this or the-that be able to connect to the Monero instance of Mastodon/Pleroma.

Why is the Monero instance being held responsible for whoever wants to federate with the Monero's server?

Yeah, no thanks. Tolerate the intollerants is not the way to go if you want a welcoming community. Actually, it's not the way to go in any case.

what do you mean by "tolerate the intolerants"?

is allowing nazis to be able to connect to your mastodon instance giving them "toleration"?

Giving nazis, racists and scum of that kind a platform.

* is allowing nazis (or whatever political boogeyman of your choice) to be able to connect to your mastodon instance giving them "toleration"?

Yes

well that's your personal opinion

why are you loading your personal opinion onto a monero community?

I am not saying broadcast racist slurs, or whatever. But why is this reflex in order to look politically correct all the time?

why not be dis-attached to all the political stances?

Monero, after all, is just a digital cash. And it is being used by nazis, or commies, or whatever.

going back to federation question: as far as I know about Mastodon/Pleroma instances, this gives you the ability to connect/follow those ""undesirable"" instances from the Monero's (hypothtetical) instance.

so, why bar such an ability?

if I open an mastodon account using Monero's instance, why am I being barred from following whatever instance I want?

* if I open an mastodon account using Monero's instance, why am I being barred from following whatever instance/account I want?

* if I open an mastodon account using Monero's instance, why am I being barred from following whatever instance/accounts I want?

correct me if I am wrong about federation, and whether allowing to federate with an instance causes our (hypothetical) Monero instance to also post those ""undesirable"" toots, etc.

Apologies for not providing an update during yesterday's meeting; I had spotty network connectivity and then apparently IRCCloud had yet another network issue :/

Am catching up on channels now

<[discord] bemore#3657>: This is a very white male community, you will likely experience pushback if you go with an "anti fascist" viewpoint.

.time

hmm ok, the bot isn't in -lab

I'll invite it

Bemire: that's bullshit. White supremacy is not welcome here.

bemore this is a community open to everybody with very little barrier of entry. In fact people are asking for people to join and help (I sometimes feel guilty for not helping). Criticizing the people doing the effort as if they are stopping anyone else from joining is extremely mean.

And if you are just trying to manipulate people into feeling guilty for putting the effort that is even worse

Meeting in #monero-dev in 5 minutes

I like the sentiment, but we should acknowledge that this is a nearly entirely white male community in a political environment where "ANTIFA" is a slogan. Try bringing up an unfortunately controversal topic like black lives matter and count the number of seconds before the conversation is shut down. This currently isn't a place for discussions about racism, fascism, or other. I strongly disagree

that Monero's stance is to be "agnostic to social issues."

bemore: I don't know where you live but nobody here gives a fuck about BLM, that's not my environment

It's probably best to say that the server will follow the Mastodon guidelines (and this workgroup's CoC) if it will have any support/affiliation

sgp_ SerHack: monerobook/monerobook #93

I sent this PR with some suggestions and comments. I think you might want to take a look

should but wont, back to work for me

<dixie__flatline[ "I am not saying broadcast racist"> Because the Monero contributor community platforms at large has certain basic civility standards, some of which are inherited from our hosts that people may not be aware of (e.g. freenode (IRC) or Reddit) to say nothing of the official Code of Conduct Monero has.

Even Linux Foundation's CommunityBridge has a CoC

People can argue that banning imagery that denies the holocaust is being 'PC', but I'd be curious to find a major FOSS community platform that is tolerant of that bigotry

I say mastodon here, but plemora works too. Most of the activitypub SNS I interact w/ are on mastodon so I default to that, but you get the end point

Just because Monero is a tool does not mean the contributor community for example endorses its use for say kidnapping and extorting people, etc Tools do not exist in a vaccuum :) If I were to run an instance on monerocommunity.org. Any bigotry that is allowed on an instance however 'PC' people want to claim it is could be seen as an endorsement of said activity by the 'community'

Which is why personally I'm in favor of just giving the @monero Twitter handlers access to @monero on mastodon.technology or something, Let someone else deal with moderation. I don't need to pay for hosting and deal with 'free speech' trolls. Alternatively the instance could just be a thing you get account creation access to if you contribute in some fashion like how Linux foundation handles @linux.com emails.

IDK. Monero mastodon/plemora instance is just an idea slowly churning in my head ☻

Not clear on what these technologies being discussed are, but thinking about them as 'official monero community' is probably a mistake. Rather, it's some kind of community hosted by a particular individual(s) with certain preferences that inform how they go about hosting. No need to think about 'the monero stance' on any subject.

It's actually very simple people. If anyone wants to spin up a server and call it a Monero server and allow that kind of stuff, the open source nature of this community means that they can't do so and we won't stop them.

But if they want us, or one of our workgroups to do so, then they need to abide by the decisions of the leadership of that workgroup. In this case Monero Community, Which has a COC.

No, you don't get to demand "freedoms" in a workgroup you don't own or operate. Yes, you can make those freedoms available in your own workgroup, but then maybe shouldn't be surprised if other workgroups or the community at large distances itself from your workgroup. ;)

Alright, I think I've settled for creating a monerocommunity.org Monero Community mastodon/plemora instance w/ the official CoC as its own, at least as an experiment. Currently occupied with OpenSteetMap tutorial creation+app UI design, but hopefully in the next month I can worth out best way to spin and sustain an instance

WTF... this project exists to build a fungible cryptocurrency. not to talk about politics.

Would love any feedback you all have on the above

Important we get that checklist knocked out ASAP to make sure we check all the boxes for the next network upgrade :)

Yes, I think it's worth highlighting the purpose of the instance is to make it easy to discuss, Monero (e.g. workgroups toot updates or whatever if so inclined), not politics. /endmyranting,probably

"sethsimmons" (matrix.to/#/@sethsimmons:matrix.org): Notify 3rd party payment processors

Do you have a list, or a link to a list?

e.g. CoinPayments or whatever is called being one

Yep, exactly that

Added with the above URL

Thanks :)

ZCash doublespeak

can't expect much better from that crew

SEC and FTC ought to have shut them down already

Engineers great tech thats opt-in and impossible to use privately for nor its

Complains that normies dont use it properly

L m a o

*for normies

trusted setup? it was never great tech

The actual privacy granted is great

If it was z2z only

Trusted setup is non-ideal but fine for most people

They want to compromise it to pander to regulators, and have done so perfectly

they're a for-profit company whose only motivation is fleecing users and pocketing the profits

I agree :)

at one point I was following a few of their engineers on twitter. finally had to start unfollowing. clearly none of them have any concern with social good.

sickening.

fluffypony: lol -> twitter.com/jswihart/status/1284944559500189696

A user just demonstrated that they could trace it back

The EFF could have done the same basically

<xmrscott[m] "Because the Monero contributor c"> Hi Scott. Thanks for the articulate answer. Could you link the Code of Conduct the monero has? I would be curious to read about that. Thanks.

rehrar: I agree here. Anybody can claim @ monero in any sort of mastodon/pleroma/matrix etc. server.

My initial reaction to this urge of being PC-ness was probably because I didn't know about the Monero community here in this specific IRC/matrix channel.

Now, as xmrscott says, if the Code of Conduct specifically designates being PC as part and parcel of the community, then I would have to shut up. I would either agree or at least not raise my voice and cause unnecessary stir in the chat, or simply just leave, and perhaps start my own monero community.

That's why I asked about the Code of Conduct.

Anyways, appreciate you guys.

Have a good one.

If people need to read a code of conduct before deciding how they're going to behave, they don't belong here.

This is an open source software project.

unless you can demonstrate that being racist produces better code, questions of racism are off-topic and simply don't belong here

otherwise - we're building a *permissionless* digital currency

that means *anyone* can use it

any exclusionary language also doesn't belong here

It's not a question of politcal correctness. It's a question of technical relevance, and the project mission.

amen

I get really annoyed that these circular conversations keep happening here. We have a workgroup CoC. If you don't like it, don't be here. Goodbye

dixie: Each workgroup/outlet has it's own 'code of conduct' in some form, either explicit or implicit. The CoC being referred to here is specifically for the Monero Community Workgroup.

There's no global 'Monero CoC', but there are certainly policies that if adopted (or not adopted) would result in those workgroups getting ostracized/delisted from our directories.

Where the line is, I couldn't tell you.

For the most part though, pretty much every one of our chats and forums has a very low tolerance to intentional controversy or toxic/non-inclusive behavior. As hyc pointed out, unless it has specific relevance to the project/group at hand, it's generally off topic. I would say 'politics' is usually off topic, but its so tied to the real world that its difficult to say its irrelevant (much of the time)

why would anyone even begin to think those were acceptable topics