I generally agree with Rehrar's voiced concerns, and personally do not support removing people from our platforms for content posted outside those platforms, unless it's actually related to Monero. What people do on their own time, 'in their own home' so to speak, is none of our business. I have and will continue to remove actual racist content posted to our platforms, it has no place here. If there is

any misbehavior within the ecosystem, that's fair game.

While the term 'witch hunt' didn't catch on, that's what these kind of policies tend to devolve into, given long enough. The precedent for removing people for unrelated off-platform content puts too much power in the hands of the enforcers, and I do not trust that the next generation of enforcers will use that power wisely.

I don't really trust a motivated mod with a grudge not to trawl through a few months/years of posting history to find a nugget of something offensive, based on our current society's rapidly changing perception of what's considered 'correct'.

Is a slur used a decade or two ago before Monero even existed fair game for a ban? I don't want to even have to consider considering that.

So, no. I will not be personally enforcing off platform, unrelated content in the areas of this community that I have some control over. Though I'm sure there will be some degree of protest from well intentioned individuals.

</rant>

MoneroKon 2020 Livestream - Saturday

Scheduled for Jun 13, 2020

on YT ^^^^ lol

also :(

rehrar: (and sgp) thanks for openly voicing your thoughts. I also generally agree with rehrar. In an ideal world the tech field would have parity w/ population demographics, but we're nowhere near that, and the private nature of tech attracts people who understandably wish to remain private... which makes it both hard to to discern if attrition is happening because of racist comments, etc or just get a pulse

make sure people don't feel isolated

I hope given both of you come from discriminated backgrounds and are in visible positions of leadership in terms of SNS moderation, contributions though that people if they felt isolated, etc could feel they could come to you to talk about X

(There's also people like Howard and Dr. Daniel Kim as well who it may be worth while seeking their opinion if one believes there's more action that needs to happen in the form of moderation, community vibes, etc)

(And FWIW I can emphasize with having to cut close people off; SO and I have had to do that to their family for a period of time given repeated remarks and refusal to listen)

<xmrhaelan> Is there a group or person who normally works with exchanges wanting to list Monero?

<xmrhaelan> I was contacted by one and need to know who to connect them with.

xmrhaelan: I already told them to join #monero-dev for any technical queries they have

and that they can add themselves to the website when they're ready

I think they just want know how to put out an announcement, and how to post it on Reddit, and we can certainly commit to retweeting their announcement from the @monero account

don't think we can do anything more than that

HRF privacy dev fund ^

"At the moment, the Bitcoin network is improving but is far from as usable and private as it needs to be with authoritarianism and surveillance on the rise in many countries. " < Alex Gladstein

binaryFate: ^

Inge-: ^

From a related article: 'A peer-to-peer value transfer system fails without underlying coin privacy at its core, because the entire system would lack fungibility if all coins were not treated equally the way paper cash is today.”

so yet another user gets (apparently) scammed by changelly . can we put something on the getmonero page?

i dunno where it would fit. but, as evidence by some responses in that thread, its apparent that a lot of folk assume that everyone knows that reddit is the de-facto community hub for monero.... but noobs would not know that

i dunno. im just so tired of seeing posts about changelly or whatever and its like yeah dude, sorry. wish we could've told you sooner, but you didn't ask, because you don't know where to ask

thankfully I haven't seen that many freewallet posts recently

midipoet: seems to me that Alex for some reason moved away from privacy coins?

Recent development in the changelly case. The support hack replying to the current reddit thread (reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/h07cpc…_wont_release_funds_2000_even_after) implied the OP had been talking to a fake Telegram account of the CEO. It turns out changelly twitter _linked_ to that telegram account: twitter.com/Changelly_team/status/1237349739710099456. It seems like a very

strong case

Changely = avoid

is changelly the one related to bytecoin/hitbtc? or is it changenow

bytecoin gang, yes

Bizarre group of people

Now is our last chance to plan some "MoneroKon" event this weekend if people want to do something

they've got the full set :D. coin, pool, exchange, instant exchange, web wallet...

I can do trivia: MoneroKon edition lol

Wasted competence

<xmrhaelan> fluffypony thx

The number of Monero transactions lately have been incredible

Any thoughts on reasons for the increase?

someone doing that known output attack?

just speculating

haha

most likely not imo

My main guess is the adoption of user-focused tools like Cake

the last few days have been slow - below 10k transactions

Does this volume correlate with any other chains?

i.e. is there a general trend that applies outside of Monero?

true, the volume is down in the past week or so

let me check on that correlation using CoinMetrics data

since January 1, the transaction count has a 0.51 correlation with ZEC and -0.03 with BTC

I noticed the other day nano txs been building over last few months

jwinterm: CoinMetrics doesn't have a data download for that afaict

sec

third chart down nanoodle.io/live

since start of new year

nano has been "stress testing" a lot

you can't really see it cause of "stress test" in dec, but if you mouse over it you can see jan-feb like 2-5k per day, mar-may 5-10k, and lately 10-15k per day

kind of similar buildup to monero

no judgment on the coin, I just saw that following a link from /r/cryptocurrency the other day, and noticed it seemed kind of similar to recent growth in monroe txs

that last chart makes it seem like just someone pumping up their tx numbers tho

can't make a chart like that for monroe tho

can you work out coin days destroyed for jwinterm?

whoops, nano. not jwinterm

I know that it's an account based system a la ethereum asymptotically

not sure if that makes it unpossible

posted about the new updater and how we secure it

Nice! Worth clarifying that keys are hardcoded?

Also worth noting that those using manual downloads _absolutely_ need to manually check hashes and signatures?

ok added it to the comment

i sort of like nano.

thanks selsta

midipoet, I don't like the proselytizing they do in /r/cryptocurrency, but beyond that I don't think a cryptocurrency network with no incentives is realistically going to be decentralized over the long term

sorry for offtopic, but there's a reason that only nano and iota are the only coins with no block reward or fees, and one of those two has already pretty clearly been identified as an unworkable money grab scam

I find it kinda funny that they add PoW against spam and it might end in services where you pay a small fee in exchange for PoW

basically reinventing fees

yea, I guess that is probably the best case scenario for them

sure. but to be honest I am over the whole "cryptocurrency vs cryptocurrency" thing. If anything cryptocurrency needs to start looking outward more, perhaps even grow up a little and start taking on what it initially proposed to take on. The last ten years has been infighting and insult hurling, that has come to no real good end, as there are still 5000 networks that all seem to still operate as p2p value

transfer, block reward or no block reward.

I think more realistically it at best becomes a network controlled by kraken, binance, et al that basically serves same purpose as liquid-btc or ripple

only 6 years since alt explosion

but point taken

all the fighting feels like it has been waaay longer

but seriously, now there is all this interoperability work going on, in theory it won't be long till a host of networks are essentially all the damn same thing anyway.

^ obviously that's reductionist, but you get the idea

browsers are all interoperable but there's still tribalism and fighting and opinions when it comes to browsers

brow.sh is the best browser, fight dsc_

I just use Curl

luigi1111: should the CLSAG audit appear here already? ccs.getmonero.org/funding-required

is there for me

works for me

Donations work too ;)

it's there now

thanks

fluffypony: I am not sure I agree wholly with your analogy, but anyway. You might argue that there is less inter-browser tribalism given the interop. I mean, imagine if browsers were completely segmented networks.

I guess I'm just trying to say that I don't think that tribalism ever goes away

sure, that's probably true.

midipoet: you literally came in here and said "I like nano" and somebody just said "I kind of disagree" and you were like "why can't we all get along???"

like, if you didn't want to discuss it, why did you say it in a place where discussion happens? :D

cause nano is off-topic

I don't want to get into trouble for shilling ALTs ;-)

B&

fluffypony is correct. I know we all like to think we've transcended evolution, but we haven't. Humans are tribalistic. Rather than try to remove tribalism (a losing battle), we need to try to optimize around it (interoperability).

and to be honest, the only reason I like nano, is cause it's accepted at r/millionairmakers for donations. The fact it's fee free is sort of unique and beautiful in its own special way

the fact that it's probably unworkable is just a distraction

unworkable free things are beautiful

I can give you a broken toilet pipe soldered onto a shoe. It's kind of useless, but it's free.

and you, in turn, can also give it for free to someone else.

circle of life

certainly better than it taking up space in my house

I'm curious what kind of shoe this would be though

disclaimer: I own like ten nano

so all my shittalking is just virtue signaling midipoet

luigi1111w: the thing is that "workable" according to what? The cryptocurrency playbook?

some economic theory?

I mean, empirical evidence points to it working now

so of course we can say "that's not workable medium/long term" but in reality, we don't even know if Monero is

I challenge the usage of the word 'empirical' on almost anything in this space

so it's like a kind of cryptorelevatism that ultimately serves little purpose

rehrar: sure, ok. But at the end of the day, it sort of does the one thing it exists to do, which is transfer value without fees and "instantaneously"

sure, it may not be the "best" design, but it would see a valid design.

midipoet, puportedly it exists to do that in a decentralized way

jwinterm: oof

oooooooof!

Like I don't like using bidets to clean my arse after a number two. Some people do

if decentralized to you means under control of the foundation, binance, kraken, and bitgrail trustee, then ok

jwinterm: well ok, but we don't really have a proper meause of "decentralisation". And like, it's not like there aren't centralising forces in pretty much all other networks

captcha distribution best distribution

like even the biggest decisions in Monero are made (at a guess) by no more than 50 people (from what I can gather)

I may be wrong of course on that number...

But it's certainly not thousands

it's millions

fair enough, but there's more than four entities involved in validating txs

dev decisions and network decentralisation aren’t even the same thing

yes, there are different kinds of decentralization. Protocol decentralization, mining (if applicable) decentralization, development, research, etc.

also the captcha distribution could be a total scam

but yeah, the question is: "When left alone, is the protocol decentralized and able to run autonomously without certain entities or individuals?"

selsta: sure, I agree but even we aspects of network centralisation

I mean i don't know how many of the "bootstrap" nodes there are but there isn't that many (as far as I understand it) and maybe the network can function without them, but you get the idea. Essentially, nothing is perfect.

The network functions fine without seed nodes.

You would just have to specify your own trusted node on startup.

but dPoS without fees is significantly more untested than something like Bitcoin.

It can’t handle spam at the moment that’s why they are looking for something like dynamic PoW

It’s one of the more honest coins but I’m still skeptical.

selsta: oh, I have no idea. that's up to them and how they think they should architect their system. really what I (think) I am trying to say is we don't really have a "best way". and the fact there are loads of people doing things is probably a good thing. I mean, I love Monero, but we have flaws too. For instance we talk a lot about being "digital cash", but if me and rehrar were to keep sending an XMR back

and forth to each other, at some point, we both get broke. Monero made a trade-off there...others have tried to make the trade-off elsewhere.