Defcon 28 is cancelled and enters safe mode with networking.

smart move

though I can't imagine video conferencing over TOR is going to be a good experience

We have the option to participate as a virtual village, I think this involves receiving and managing our own discord group on Defcon servers.

discord? that only does audio & text. no video?

hyc: That sounds nasty, yes.

hyc I just have special news about villages, the other teams like mainstage may have a different approach.

gotcha

Can you fiddle play on discord? I heard it has rich features.

I guess the audio should be fine

haven't tried it

I wonder if the codecs are optimized for speech though, instead of broadband audip

s/audip/audio

"There are too many different platforms for one size fits all so instead of us picking a winner we will act as the coordinator pointing everyone where to go" - Dark Tangent

if discord sucks, we could use jitsi

guess so

Discord is great

It's proprietary af

But I use it a ton and they've got a solid product

I only recently started using it because of a few android games I'm playing

only using text chat in it

tried the voice channel for a choir I'm in, but the audio lag is unworkable

A synchronized thing like that is understandably an issue

Meeting in 1 hour

.time

anyone here have a lenovo carbon x1?

kinghat[m]: nope, but the motherboard fried on my Yoga 720 after 2 years

I'm very much not over that lol

ah damn

looking at picking up a used gen 3 carbon x1

iirc I've heard generally good things

Hello. Test ping.

Seems okay.

problem is the ram/cpu are soldered on

yeah it's super thin right?

kinghat: That comes off easily with tacky flux and a hot air solder station, I just removed a 88-pin BGA.

Maybe if sgp is right and the parts are thin, then not so easily.

<sgp_ "yeah it's super thin right?"> its for sure much thinner than say the t series. kinda close to a mac book air i think.

I have a T490 for work and it's plenty thin for me

msvb-mob: i feel like i'd dick things up, though, i did search out youtube videos for replacing the ram.

<sgp_ "I have a T490 for work and it's "> thought about getting a t540/50 and upgrading it

Oh I think sgp meant the whole device is thin. The soldered on parts are only difficult to remove if they are the thin things.

the meeting is starting now, so let's postpone this

0. Introduction

We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!

Link to agenda on GitHub: monero-project/meta #461

Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.

1. Greetings

hi

Hello.

hi

ping needbrrrrrrr90 ErCiccione[m] sarang xmrscott[m]

the mighty Salazar is on vacation, so I'll let him be :)

2. Community highlights

See Monero weekly highlights at revuo-monero.com

Check out resources at communityworkgroup.org. It also has a calendar you can subscribe to for meeting reminders.

We have a new mod on xmrtrader

Xmr2020

I saw, very nice

have views/comments been up?

Nope

Prep for it

got it

Mostly because of Monero Means Money, the MCW YouTube channel's monthly views are up >999% since last month. Monthly impressions are up 468%, monthly CTR is up 53%, monthly watch time is up 967%, and monthly new subscribers are up 832%

The views for the film are not slowing down much either. For the most part, it’s a linear line i.imgur.com/Gs9acTR.png

I referred Diego to Messari’s Mainnet 2020 conference. I emailed them asking that they include a Monero perspective and they seem to be open to it so far. We should continue doing this (I can give you a receive-only/forwarded @communityworkgroup.org email address if you want to do outreach)

Does anyone else have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?

I was hoping to ask rehrar about his nonworkgroup virtual meeting research.

Does anybody know how far he got with that, anything conclusive (best platform) or did he write anything searchable?

He probably won't be here today, but I know he likes using Mozilla Hubs

and I've heard Zoom's breakout feature actually works, but I haven't tested that and it's not very Monero-friendly

for other questions on this, can you bring them up during open ideas time?

So sgp do you think rehrar abandoned the virtual world servers, the ones that felt like minecraft?

Okay, we can review later on...

3. CCS updates

Funding required:

All proposals are fully-funded!

Ideas (to be discussed):

Translation of Mastering Monero into Brazilian Portuguese (37 XMR) repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/137

luigi1111, I thought this was supposed to be merged already? ^

unless there are other comments on this one, I believe it already should have been merged

if anyone has questions please do it

Compilation time reduction and housekeeping (52 XMR) repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/138

xmrscott[m] shared his support for this in the proposal

I encourage the Monero devs to include a summary of their discussions there

Research post-quantum strategies for Monero (603 XMR) repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/142

I added a comment that I like the new scope for this proposal

Yeah, Isthmus and I had discussed the scope and deliverables

(note that I am not part of that CCS, just offering my advice)

.0ok

a blog post helping discuss the matter clearly will be very useful

has anyone else had a chance to review this proposal? I don't think Isthmus advertised it much yet

I'll ping him and ask him to promote it

Any other CCS comments before we move on?

I can also ask him to discuss it at the next research meeting if he's available

Oh, I want to mention that the Monero Audit Workgroup is recommending the CLSAG audit and will be making a CCS proposal for it shortly once the final SoW is completed

total cost is about $15k, though some of that has already been paid for by previous donations

We might need a CCS proposal for Defcon 2020-2021 storage costs

I feel summoned.

payment for storage ends August

AJS we have a bit leftover, but I don't know if it will cover the whole year.

How much is it for the year?

The recommended CLSAG audit is for Teserakt, JP Aumasson's new company

(he was formerly with Kudelski Security)

I manage to negotiate monthly fee down to $85 from $115, which is comparable to self-storage costs.

I think we should have enough.

Inventory: monero.sandcats.io/shared/rByAjvOR-VPt6IXkh9diOZDBHteIzBvNF0KKVmBvNne

I'll message you.

picture of stuff: imgur.com/amxK7BN

okay

CCS for a year of storage seems reasonable

Any other final comments?

4. Workgroup report

is selsta here?

a. Daemon/CLI workgroup

the devs are preparing for the 0.16 release

it will not require a hardfork

yes

selsta: do you have any other cli/monerod updates?

CLI / GUI code are ready, we will branch and then test for a week

and then release

testers welcome :)

Lol

good bot

release contains over 500 commits so it will be a major release

Dandelion, bulletproof improvements, daemon wallet communication speed improvements, and a lot of other minor stuff and bug fixes

*Dandelion++

that’s it

They're different :)

I know but the Bitcoin Dandelion++ reference implementation also only calls it Dandelion so it got confusing

some coins don’t even know if they have Dandelion or Dandelion++ lol

thanks selsta

b. Localization workgroup

ErCiccione doesn't seem to be here, but they posted a call for translators this week: reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/gf8js7…slators_new_gui_release_approaching

skipping c since selsta already covered it

(unless there are gui-specific things, and if so please interrupt me)

actually I think we can skip to f, since the other workgroup reps don't seem to be here. Please comment if you have an update

f. Monero Research Lab

Hi

Working on the CLSAG audit scope and associated materials

as well as additional implementation proof-of-concept code for Triptych and Arcturus

and some updates to in-memory key encryption

Nothing too earth-shattering

Others have been focusing on future updates to transaction structure for better uniformity

thanks sarang, anything else?

That does it for me

okay

5. Open ideas time

does anyone have an idea to share?

currently Monero Means Money has subtitles only for English and Portuguese, perhaps the Localization workgroup could solicit volunteers for this sometime

There is a new project for our DC28 participation if we choose to virtualise.

Defcon 29 in Las Vegas was cancelled yesterday, in case we didn't hear the news.

I was looking at weblate's documentation and it's possible to use it for subtitles

And replaced by 'Defcon Safemode with Networking' involving Village Discourse servers and whatever we want to uniquely set up.

Yeah idk about connecting remotely to defcon

Would make really easy to contribute translations there

Just feels like a baaaad idea

Guess I could connect through my burner smart fridge

needbrrrrrrr90: Other villages like Skytalks completely cancelled their participation.

imo we should expect to participate and see what that looks like

I suspect we should socially distance from defcon, for virus purposes

But if you want to roll the dice

In this community meeting it's just a sneak preview, but we can discuss in more detail during our first (and last?) DC28 meeting, sometime I'l try to schedule it and post on IRC and Github.

Thanks

do we need to remotely connect? I'm out of the loop from these discussion

s/discussion/discissions

Basically my concern is that we will attract people who both have money on their comouter and aren't cautious, and defcon is known for 0days and such

sgp: There will be no Vegas on site installations, so everything is IP remote yes.

It feels like an easy target

hyc already gave some opinions and useful information about Discourse, if you want to scroll to IRC discussion about ten hours ago.

needbrrrrrrr90: can we try to mitigate that by not using Defcon's services? Is that a requirement?

I'm not sure sgp, we can talk about it in the meeting

And I'll get informed so I'm not repeating already said stuff

netrik182: sounds helpful to allow non-coding translators to contribute w/o dealing with github

sgp: I think there are no real requirements, if we don't use the Discourse server it may seem we're not participating. We could always make it a landing page and stick a topic permanent pointing to our real services, like a 302.

wait are we talking about Discord or Discourse? These are two totally different things

we could use our own Jitsi server

Defcon Discord is optional

Oops, I'm not sure sgp.

It's even worse than I thought. I wrote 'discourse' but the server they want to use is called 'discord.'

That's not even hosted by Defcon. That's hosted by Discord themselves, no?

sgp: Probably yes, and hyc wrote that it's not opensource.

I think needbrrrrrr90 wrote something as well, but strangely positive. Like, it's proprietary but very useful.

We should probably expect to use their Discord for chats (or Jitsi), and then a livestream like before for events/talks

For what it does, there's nothing like it. It's primarily for the game community, but they've expanded their suite of offerings

discord is great

Multi way video/voice chat now makes it a serious contender agaisnt jitsi et al

Discord is kinda killing it with convenience. The new video conferencing just.... works

So that's why I made the first (and only one so far) user story in project management about 'researching server technology.' To figure out what we want to do.

Discord is proprietary thereby a security threat particularly when its use is related to Defcon

ArticMine: Do you prefer some alternative, do you like jitsi?

Ehhh, open source doesn't necessarily mean not a security risk, because defcon

I suggest we stay with jitsi

intj440: yes, the only thing to note is that if there are synchronizations to be made, that will require some knowledge and an external tool (like Aegisub). But this applies to github contributions as well

I think this will largely depend on where attendees are tbh

FLOSS at least means a level playing field between the white hats and the black hats

we can still use Jitsi + YouTube for the speakers/events, but we may need to have a Discord presence to greet and answer questions, etc

Why?

marketing reasons. gotta meet people where they are to some extent

Fine and then send the to jitsi

them

yeah we can always do something like that

Let's not forget whatever research rehrar determined about things like Mozilla Hubs, that might be nice to mix in.

yeah

any final open ideas?

I might do a trivia session tomorrow if I'm bored

Sounds fun

6. Confirm next meeting date/time

The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 23 May at 17:00 UTC.

The next Coffee Chat is on Saturday 30 May at 17:00 UTC

Conclusion

That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, STAY SAFE AND ISOLATED, and know that change starts with YOU.

Thanks sgp, good meeting.

thanks sgp_

thanks sgp_

Sorry, couldn't make it in time for the meeting

netrik182intj440 : I think wouldn't be an issue to add the subtitles on weblate. If it's something we want to do we can organize

needbrrrrrrr90: Historically people don't waste 0days at DC with the exception of *maybe* some years for the official CTF when there's black badges to be won

Spending 0days at DC is generally considered a waste. If people want to avoid using Discord, could always either setup a bridge to MatterMost or Matrix, and then in theory you never have to DL or make a Discord bin

If anything, similar to Zoom, you're now likely to have a bunch of bored pentesters looking at Discord since DT mentioned Discord, reporting bugs/exploits for bounties

ErCiccione: nice, here is the github repo hosting the subtitles and some instruction I wrote to help contributors. It's managed by ajs github.com/ajs-xmr/moneromovie

I'll be glad to help organize it

Worst case, buy a burner mobile home