02:40:00 <msvb-rtc[m]> Defcon 28 is cancelled and enters safe mode with networking.
02:40:00 <msvb-rtc[m]> https://www.defcon.org/html/defcon-28/dc-28-index.html
02:40:21 <hyc> smart move
02:40:34 <hyc> though I can't imagine video conferencing over TOR is going to be a good experience
02:41:17 <msvb-rtc[m]> We have the option to participate as a virtual village, I think this involves receiving and managing our own discord group on Defcon servers.
02:41:48 <hyc> discord? that only does audio & text. no video?
02:41:51 <msvb-rtc[m]> hyc: That sounds nasty, yes.
02:43:09 <msvb-rtc[m]> hyc I just have special news about villages, the other teams like mainstage may have a different approach.
02:43:23 <hyc> gotcha
02:44:11 <msvb-rtc[m]> Can you fiddle play on discord? I heard it has rich features.
02:48:41 <hyc> I guess the audio should be fine
02:48:57 <hyc> haven't tried it
02:49:14 <hyc> I wonder if the codecs are optimized for speech though, instead of broadband audip
02:49:20 <hyc> s/audip/audio
02:49:20 <monerobux> hyc meant to say: I wonder if the codecs are optimized for speech though, instead of broadband audio
03:24:45 <ajs-mob> "There are too many different platforms for one size fits all so instead of us picking a winner we will act as the coordinator pointing everyone where to go" - Dark Tangent
03:25:46 <ajs-mob> if discord sucks, we could use jitsi
03:27:14 <hyc> guess so
03:28:29 <needbrrrrrrr90> Discord is great
03:28:36 <needbrrrrrrr90> It's proprietary af
03:28:49 <needbrrrrrrr90> But I use it a ton and they've got a solid product
03:29:10 <hyc> I only recently started using it because of a few android games I'm playing
03:29:21 <hyc> only using text chat in it
03:29:47 <hyc> tried the voice channel for a choir I'm in, but the audio lag is unworkable
03:39:47 <needbrrrrrrr90> A synchronized thing like that is understandably an issue
15:55:55 <sgp_> Meeting in 1 hour
16:00:04 <rottensox> .time
16:00:04 <monerobux> 2020-05-09 - 16:00:04
16:29:37 <kinghat[m]> anyone here have a lenovo carbon x1?
16:50:02 <sgp_> kinghat[m]: nope, but the motherboard fried on my Yoga 720 after 2 years
16:50:40 <sgp_> I'm very much not over that lol
16:51:34 <kinghat[m]> ah damn
16:51:55 <kinghat[m]> looking at picking up a used gen 3 carbon x1
16:52:25 <sgp_> iirc I've heard generally good things
16:55:07 <msvb-mob> Hello. Test ping.
16:55:10 <msvb-mob> Seems okay.
16:56:11 <kinghat[m]> problem is the ram/cpu are soldered on
16:56:38 <sgp_> yeah it's super thin right?
16:57:08 <msvb-mob> kinghat: That comes off easily with tacky flux and a hot air solder station, I just removed a 88-pin BGA.
16:57:22 <msvb-mob> Maybe if sgp is right and the parts are thin, then not so easily.
16:58:28 <kinghat[m]> <sgp_ "yeah it's super thin right?"> its for sure much thinner than say the t series. kinda close to a mac book air i think.
16:58:54 <sgp_> I have a T490 for work and it's plenty thin for me
16:59:06 <kinghat[m]> msvb-mob: i feel like i'd dick things up, though, i did search out youtube videos for replacing the ram.
16:59:38 <kinghat[m]> <sgp_ "I have a T490 for work and it's "> thought about getting a t540/50 and upgrading it
16:59:39 <msvb-mob> Oh I think sgp meant the whole device is thin. The soldered on parts are only difficult to remove if they are the thin things.
17:00:09 <sgp_> the meeting is starting now, so let's postpone this
17:00:18 <sgp_> 0. Introduction
17:00:23 <sgp_> We would like to welcome everyone to this Monero Community Workgroup Meeting!
17:00:27 <sgp_> Link to agenda on GitHub: https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/461
17:00:34 <sgp_> Monero Community meetings are a discussion place for anything going on in the Monero Community, including other Monero workgroups. We use meetings to encourage the community to share ideas and provide support.
17:00:38 <sgp_> 1. Greetings
17:00:50 <netrik182[m]> hi
17:01:33 <msvb-mob> Hello.
17:02:01 <ArticMine> hi
17:03:18 <sgp_> ping needbrrrrrrr90 ErCiccione[m] sarang xmrscott[m]
17:03:51 <sgp_> the mighty Salazar is on vacation, so I'll let him be :)
17:04:08 <sgp_> 2. Community highlights
17:04:10 * needbrrrrrrr90 grumbles 
17:04:13 <sgp_> See Monero weekly highlights at https://revuo-monero.com
17:04:14 * needbrrrrrrr90 rolls over 
17:04:19 <sgp_> Check out resources at https://communityworkgroup.org. It also has a calendar you can subscribe to for meeting reminders.
17:04:36 <needbrrrrrrr90> We have a new mod on xmrtrader
17:04:43 <needbrrrrrrr90> Xmr2020
17:04:43 <sgp_> I saw, very nice
17:05:01 <sgp_> have views/comments been up?
17:06:07 <needbrrrrrrr90> Nope
17:06:09 <needbrrrrrrr90> Prep for it
17:06:14 <sgp_> got it
17:06:22 <sgp_> Mostly because of Monero Means Money, the MCW YouTube channel's monthly views are up >999% since last month. Monthly impressions are up 468%, monthly CTR is up 53%, monthly watch time is up 967%, and monthly new subscribers are up 832%
17:06:43 <sgp_> The views for the film are not slowing down much either. For the most part, it’s a linear line https://i.imgur.com/Gs9acTR.png
17:07:14 <sgp_> I referred Diego to Messari’s Mainnet 2020 conference. I emailed them asking that they include a Monero perspective and they seem to be open to it so far. We should continue doing this (I can give you a receive-only/forwarded @communityworkgroup.org email address if you want to do outreach)
17:07:38 <sgp_> Does anyone else have community (non-workgroup) updates to share?
17:08:04 <msvb-mob> I was hoping to ask rehrar about his nonworkgroup virtual meeting research.
17:08:23 <msvb-mob> Does anybody know how far he got with that, anything conclusive (best platform) or did he write anything searchable?
17:08:50 <sgp_> He probably won't be here today, but I know he likes using Mozilla Hubs
17:09:20 <sgp_> and I've heard Zoom's breakout feature actually works, but I haven't tested that and it's not very Monero-friendly
17:10:13 <sgp_> for other questions on this, can you bring them up during open ideas time?
17:10:35 <msvb-mob> So sgp do you think rehrar abandoned the virtual world servers, the ones that felt like minecraft?
17:10:46 <msvb-mob> Okay, we can review later on...
17:10:50 <sgp_> 3. CCS updates
17:10:55 <sgp_> Funding required:
17:11:01 <sgp_> All proposals are fully-funded!
17:11:09 <sgp_>  Ideas (to be discussed):
17:11:15 <sgp_> Translation of Mastering Monero into Brazilian Portuguese (37 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/137
17:11:19 <sgp_> luigi1111, I thought this was supposed to be merged already? ^
17:11:49 <sgp_> unless there are other comments on this one, I believe it already should have been merged
17:12:32 <netrik182[m]> if anyone has questions please do it
17:12:46 <sgp_> Compilation time reduction and housekeeping (52 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/138
17:12:58 <sgp_> xmrscott[m] shared his support for this in the proposal
17:13:30 <sgp_> I encourage the Monero devs to include a summary of their discussions there
17:14:37 <sgp_> Research post-quantum strategies for Monero (603 XMR) https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/142
17:14:49 <sgp_> I added a comment that I like the new scope for this proposal
17:15:05 <sarang> Yeah, Isthmus and I had discussed the scope and deliverables
17:15:14 <sarang> (note that I am not part of that CCS, just offering my advice)
17:15:42 <luigi1111w> .0ok
17:15:43 <sgp_> a blog post helping discuss the matter clearly will be very useful
17:16:22 <sgp_> has anyone else had a chance to review this proposal? I don't think Isthmus advertised it much yet
17:17:39 <sgp_> I'll ping him and ask him to promote it
17:17:47 <sgp_> Any other CCS comments before we move on?
17:17:56 <sarang> I can also ask him to discuss it at the next research meeting if he's available
17:18:27 <sgp_> Oh, I want to mention that the Monero Audit Workgroup is recommending the CLSAG audit and will be making a CCS proposal for it shortly once the final SoW is completed
17:19:17 <sgp_> total cost is about $15k, though some of that has already been paid for by previous donations
17:19:38 <ajs-mob> We might need a CCS proposal for Defcon 2020-2021 storage costs
17:19:46 <rehrar> I feel summoned.
17:19:58 <ajs-mob>  payment for storage ends August
17:20:02 <rehrar> AJS we have a bit leftover, but I don't know if it will cover the whole year.
17:20:09 <rehrar> How much is it for the year?
17:20:09 <sarang> The recommended CLSAG audit is for Teserakt, JP Aumasson's new company
17:20:14 <sarang> (he was formerly with Kudelski Security)
17:20:15 <ajs-mob> I manage to negotiate monthly fee down to $85 from $115, which is comparable to self-storage costs.
17:20:33 <rehrar> I think we should have enough.
17:20:40 <ajs-mob> Inventory: https://monero.sandcats.io/shared/rByAjvOR-VPt6IXkh9diOZDBHteIzBvNF0KKVmBvNne
17:20:41 <rehrar> I'll message you.
17:20:48 <ajs-mob> picture of stuff: https://imgur.com/amxK7BN
17:20:57 <ajs-mob> okay
17:22:06 <sgp_> CCS for a year of storage seems reasonable
17:23:27 <sgp_> Any other final comments?
17:24:01 <sgp_> 4. Workgroup report
17:24:08 <sgp_> is selsta here?
17:24:15 <sgp_> a. Daemon/CLI workgroup
17:24:30 <sgp_> the devs are preparing for the 0.16 release
17:24:38 <sgp_> it will not require a hardfork
17:24:54 <selsta> yes
17:25:11 <sgp_> selsta: do you have any other cli/monerod updates?
17:25:18 <selsta> CLI / GUI code are ready, we will branch and then test for a week
17:25:26 <selsta> and then release
17:25:31 <selsta> testers welcome :)
17:25:31 <monerobux> Test failed
17:25:35 <needbrrrrrrr90> Lol
17:25:56 <sarang> good bot
17:26:10 <selsta> release contains over 500 commits so it will be a major release
17:27:40 <selsta> Dandelion, bulletproof improvements, daemon wallet communication speed improvements, and a lot of other minor stuff and bug fixes
17:27:54 <sarang> *Dandelion++
17:27:56 <selsta> that’s it
17:27:59 <sarang> They're different :)
17:28:25 <selsta> I know but the Bitcoin Dandelion++ reference implementation also only calls it Dandelion so it got confusing
17:29:02 <selsta> some coins don’t even know if they have Dandelion or Dandelion++ lol
17:30:39 <sgp_> thanks selsta
17:31:01 <sgp_> b. Localization workgroup
17:31:21 <sgp_> ErCiccione doesn't seem to be here, but they posted a call for translators this week: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/gf8js7/call_for_translators_new_gui_release_approaching/
17:31:22 <monerobux> [REDDIT] Call for translators: New GUI release approaching, we need to translate the new strings! (self.Monero) | 65 points (93.0%) | 8 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2020-05-07 - 15:23:32
17:32:11 <sgp_> skipping c since selsta already covered it
17:32:34 <sgp_> (unless there are gui-specific things, and if so please interrupt me)
17:33:37 <sgp_> actually I think we can skip to f, since the other workgroup reps don't seem to be here. Please comment if you have an update
17:33:40 <sgp_> f. Monero Research Lab
17:34:09 <sarang> Hi
17:34:23 <sarang> Working on the CLSAG audit scope and associated materials
17:34:44 <sarang> as well as additional implementation proof-of-concept code for Triptych and Arcturus
17:34:56 <sarang> and some updates to in-memory key encryption
17:35:19 <sarang> Nothing too earth-shattering
17:35:56 <sarang> Others have been focusing on future updates to transaction structure for better uniformity
17:38:35 <sgp_> thanks sarang, anything else?
17:38:44 <sarang> That does it for me
17:38:55 <sgp_> okay
17:38:57 <sgp_> 5. Open ideas time
17:39:04 <sgp_> does anyone have an idea to share?
17:40:46 <intj440> currently Monero Means Money has subtitles only for English and Portuguese, perhaps the Localization workgroup could solicit volunteers for this sometime
17:41:14 <msvb-mob> There is a new project for our DC28 participation if we choose to virtualise.
17:41:18 <msvb-mob> https://taiga.getmonero.org/project/michael-monero-village-at-defcon-planning/
17:41:41 <msvb-mob> Defcon 29 in Las Vegas was cancelled yesterday, in case we didn't hear the news.
17:41:56 <netrik182[m]> I was looking at weblate's documentation and it's possible to use it for subtitles
17:42:07 <msvb-mob> And replaced by 'Defcon Safemode with Networking' involving Village Discourse servers and whatever we want to uniquely set up.
17:42:24 <needbrrrrrrr90> Yeah idk about connecting remotely to defcon
17:42:27 <netrik182[m]> Would make really easy to contribute translations there
17:42:29 <needbrrrrrrr90> Just feels like a baaaad idea
17:42:57 <needbrrrrrrr90> Guess I could connect through my burner smart fridge
17:43:26 <msvb-mob> needbrrrrrrr90: Other villages like Skytalks completely cancelled their participation.
17:43:48 <sgp_> imo we should expect to participate and see what that looks like
17:44:09 <needbrrrrrrr90> I suspect we should socially distance from defcon, for virus purposes
17:44:19 <needbrrrrrrr90> But if you want to roll the dice
17:44:33 <msvb-mob> In this community meeting it's just a sneak preview, but we can discuss in more detail during our first (and last?) DC28 meeting, sometime I'l try to schedule it and post on IRC and Github.
17:44:43 <needbrrrrrrr90> Thanks
17:44:49 <sgp_> do we need to remotely connect? I'm out of the loop from these discussion
17:44:58 <sgp_> s/discussion/discissions
17:44:58 <monerobux> sgp_ meant to say: do we need to remotely connect? I'm out of the loop from these discissions
17:45:15 <needbrrrrrrr90> Basically my concern is that we will attract people who both have money on their comouter and aren't cautious, and defcon is known for 0days and such
17:45:18 <msvb-mob> sgp: There will be no Vegas on site installations, so everything is IP remote yes.
17:45:21 <needbrrrrrrr90> It feels like an easy target
17:45:27 -xmr-pr- [meta] SarangNoether opened issue #462: Research meeting: 13 May 2020 @ 17:00 UTC
17:45:27 -xmr-pr- > https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/462
17:46:24 <msvb-mob> hyc already gave some opinions and useful information about Discourse, if you want to scroll to IRC discussion about ten hours ago.
17:46:38 <sgp_> needbrrrrrrr90: can we try to mitigate that by not using Defcon's services? Is that a requirement?
17:47:01 <needbrrrrrrr90> I'm not sure sgp, we can talk about it in the meeting
17:47:13 <needbrrrrrrr90> And I'll get informed so I'm not repeating already said stuff
17:47:24 <intj440> netrik182: sounds helpful to allow non-coding translators to contribute w/o dealing with github
17:47:26 <msvb-mob> sgp: I think there are no real requirements, if we don't use the Discourse server it may seem we're not participating. We could always make it a landing page and stick a topic permanent pointing to our real services, like a 302.
17:47:31 <sgp_> wait are we talking about Discord or Discourse? These are two totally different things
17:47:32 <ajs-mob> we could use our own Jitsi server
17:48:05 <ajs-mob> Defcon Discord is optional
17:48:36 <msvb-mob> Oops, I'm not sure sgp.
17:48:39 <msvb-mob> It's even worse than I thought. I wrote 'discourse' but the server they want to use is called 'discord.'
17:49:00 <sgp_> That's not even hosted by Defcon. That's hosted by Discord themselves, no?
17:49:17 <msvb-mob> sgp: Probably yes, and hyc wrote that it's not opensource.
17:49:37 <msvb-mob> I think needbrrrrrr90 wrote something as well, but strangely positive. Like, it's proprietary but very useful.
17:49:58 <sgp_> We should probably expect to use their Discord for chats (or Jitsi), and then a livestream like before for events/talks
17:50:04 <needbrrrrrrr90> For what it does, there's nothing like it. It's primarily for the game community, but they've expanded their suite of offerings
17:50:16 <shillo> discord is great
17:50:26 <needbrrrrrrr90> Multi way video/voice chat now makes it a serious contender agaisnt jitsi et al
17:50:35 <sgp_> Discord is kinda killing it with convenience. The new video conferencing just.... works
17:50:38 <msvb-mob> So that's why I made the first (and only one so far) user story in project management about 'researching server technology.' To figure out what we want to do.
17:51:27 <ArticMine> Discord is proprietary thereby a security threat particularly when its use is related to Defcon
17:51:56 <msvb-mob> ArticMine: Do you prefer some alternative, do you like jitsi?
17:52:10 <needbrrrrrrr90> Ehhh, open source doesn't necessarily mean not a security risk, because defcon
17:52:15 <ArticMine> I suggest we stay with jitsi
17:52:39 <netrik182[m]> intj440: yes, the only thing to note is that if there are synchronizations to be made, that will require some knowledge and an external tool (like Aegisub). But this applies to github contributions as well
17:52:42 <sgp_> I think this will largely depend on where attendees are tbh
17:53:27 <ArticMine> FLOSS at least means a level playing field between the white hats and the black hats
17:53:44 <sgp_> we can still use Jitsi + YouTube for the speakers/events, but we may need to have a Discord presence to greet and answer questions, etc
17:54:01 <ArticMine> Why?
17:54:17 <sgp_> marketing reasons. gotta meet people where they are to some extent
17:54:55 <ArticMine> Fine and then send the to jitsi
17:55:02 <ArticMine> them
17:55:06 <sgp_> yeah we can always do something like that
17:55:46 <msvb-mob> Let's not forget whatever research rehrar determined about things like Mozilla Hubs, that might be nice to mix in.
17:57:00 <sgp_> yeah
17:58:01 <sgp_> any final open ideas?
17:58:25 <sgp_> I might do a trivia session tomorrow if I'm bored
17:58:42 <needbrrrrrrr90> Sounds fun
17:59:53 <sgp_> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
17:59:57 <sgp_> The next community meeting will be in 2 weeks on 23 May at 17:00 UTC.
18:00:05 <sgp_> The next Coffee Chat is on Saturday 30 May at 17:00 UTC
18:00:10 <sgp_> Conclusion
18:00:14 <sgp_> That’s all! Thanks for attending this Monero Community meeting, and we hope to see you on r/MoneroCommunity and #monero-community. Take care, STAY SAFE AND ISOLATED, and know that change starts with YOU.
18:00:22 <msvb-mob> Thanks sgp, good meeting.
18:01:57 <netrik182[m]> thanks sgp_
18:06:07 <ArticMine> thanks sgp_
18:33:00 <ErCiccione[m]> Sorry, couldn't make it in time for the meeting
18:33:53 <ErCiccione[m]> netrik182intj440 : I think wouldn't be an issue to add the subtitles on weblate. If it's something we want to do we can organize
18:53:25 <xmrscott[m]> needbrrrrrrr90:　Historically people don't waste 0days at DC with the exception of *maybe* some years for the official CTF when there's black badges to be won
18:57:23 <xmrscott[m]> Spending 0days at DC is generally considered a waste. If people want to avoid using Discord, could always either setup a bridge to MatterMost or Matrix, and then in theory you never have to DL or make a Discord bin
19:03:31 <xmrscott[m]> If anything, similar to Zoom, you're now likely to have a bunch of bored pentesters looking at Discord since DT mentioned Discord, reporting bugs/exploits for bounties
20:02:53 <netrik182[m]> ErCiccione: nice, here is the github repo hosting the subtitles and some instruction I wrote to help contributors. It's managed by ajs https://github.com/ajs-xmr/moneromovie
20:03:05 <netrik182[m]> I'll be glad to help organize it
23:24:11 <xmrscott[m]> Worst case, buy a burner mobile home