.time

Meeting in an hour.

Hooray!

Meetings are a scam

you are a scam.

hello

hello hellooooooo

hi

it's now time for a meeting down on Monero Lane

won't you mosey on over? Take a seat by the fire. Kick your boots off. I think someone brought a banjo.

How many of you cowboys are here today?

sarang is here making s'mores already. I'm here taking out my harmonicas. Anyone else?

Hi

just us three then

2. Community Highlights

I would say read the Revuo, but I didn't put it out yesterday. It'll come out today.

New puppy. He's exhausting. :P

So look forward to the Revuo today. Toss some money in the general fund if you like it.

3. CCS Updates

Let's discuss sarang's thing.

Should we move it ErCiccione?

Hi there

Absolutely not

The proposal is here, recently updated: repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/131

sarang, what say you in your defense?

hi

Well, I'm ready to go for another quarter of research

Lots done, lots to do, as usual!

Oof. 700ish XMR.

joking of course. btw sarang, did you update your rate? Market dropped quite a lot

Not your fault, of course.

Yes, I recently updated due to high volatility

Good

just update the price there every hour

Certainly happy to answer questions or take comments during this meeting, or on the GitLab page

I think this is more of a tribunal than a meeting.

One exciting thing not listed there is that the new Triptych-2 preprint is in the queue for posting to the IACR archive :)

but if erciccione says move, then that's good enough for me.

woohoo!

It might take a few days for the editors to post it

That's cool

please remember to add it to getmonero

Once a preprint is posted, any revisions can be done automagically

Yup, I have a local branch

Nice

but I need the IACR ID for the URL

we also have a persian translation proposal opened

and that isn't known until the editors approve it

sarang: only in english, no need to do it for the other languages anymore

There won't be a problem with approval, just waiting for their queue

ErCiccione: so don't even add the English string or tag to the other language files?

Edit _only_ the *.en file?

or whatever the file name is!

Yep. No need to do it for all languages as before (thanks weblate)

thx bb

Nice! I'll message you when I finish, to check that I did the new process correctly

Sorry to derail the meeting rehrar!

Sure

Persian proposal

as predicted, pay one person for translation, start paying them all

I gave it only a quick look i only saw they are proposing to translate a lot of stuff

rehrar: are you opposed to CCS for translations as a general rule?

I'll be happy to have a lot of translations in persian tbh, it's a major language

sarang: not necessarily. It was just predicted by many that up until a few months ago most translations were voluntary.

When we approve a few people for translations on the CCS, it sets a precedent, and suddenly everyone wants money for it.

most of the translations are still voluntary

But it could also be that harder to get languages might need incentivization.

I say this as not a good or bad thing. Neutral. It is what it is. A fact. A truth. Reality.

plz leave a comment on the proposal ErCiccione

you are elected for this purpose

I'm ok with having paid translators, especially for the website, which is a lot of stuff

am i the chosen one?

It could encourage more people to be paid for work they already have, but I think the cat is already out of this bag at this point

Any further thoughts on the Whonix Debian packages proposal?

btw i will as soon as i give it a deeper look

How do most translations work when things are added ErCiccione?

People who translate freely because of philosophy or whatever will continue to do so

things = new strings, not new languages

Rehrar: I still stand by only paying coordinators

People with time commitment to coordinate the donated work

sarang: for GUI, CLI and the core part of getmonero changes are catched automatically. Soon will be the case for the roadmap as well

<rehrar> as predicted, pay one person for translation, start paying them all <= I kind of warned for this too

Right, but do the previous translators typically return to make the updates?

Paying individual translators prevents people who would eventually be willing to do it for free from even having the opportunity

It removes the altruistic nature of the translations and at some point you will end up with people only willing to translate in case they get paid

Or how does it happen in practice?

that's not really the case

translators are for the vast majority still made by volunteers, as i said earlier

Got it, thanks

just curious

and i welcome people willing to work on the harder stuff (which volunteers avoid) and getting paied for it

the point is that volunteers tend to work on the "easy" stuff, leaving behind harder parts

like user guides and moneropedia for getmonero

ErCiccione: Hence, at some point

If the trend continues like this I expect for it to happen

the GUI is still vastly translated by volunteers, and i haven't noticed any change of trend

Anyway, perhaps my statement is a bit too drastic, but still

dEBRUYNE: i disagree, we didn't get a crazy amount of CCS for paied translations

I think if there is a drastic drop off of volunteers and uptick in people asking for money for translations we can revisit the conversation?

until then we can monitor

the problem is that the drop of volunteers is a problem, without the CCS

add some tracking, javascript, and user surveys to see what people are thinking and understand general sentiment

that's why i'm happy that people open proposals, because otherwise we won't have stuff translated

I jest obviously

so, i personally don't see the problem with CCS translators and as i said, i welcome them,

ok, any further thoughts on this or the Debian one?

but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't monitor the situation

Shall we close the Telegram bot one? Opened July 2019. Probably past expiry.

sarang can you shed some light on this Atoc guy?

he still around or what?

I haven't heard from them in a while

They showed research interest, and did talk to suraeNoether in the research channel

However, suraeNoether had earlier made it clear that he hadn't endorsed that proposal or anything

didn’t we have a rule that CCS should only get opened by community members that contributed in the past?

selsta: was never a codified rule

Ok. I'll have luigi leave a comment in the proposal asking for him to update.

selsta: but I prefer it that way, yes.

but I'm just a nobody.

Meh. Let's move on.

Workgroup reports

Any workgroup have something to say?

sarang: MRL selsta GUI ErCiccione website

I have been working quite a bit on transaction protocols: CLSAG, Triptych, Triptych-2

CLI GUI released v0.15.0.5 but we still have to wait for GUI binaries

xmrscott[m]: changing the world

FWIW suraeNoether indicated he would have reduced availability for the next few weeks, but I don't want to speak for him

However, I am still waiting on some input from him on CLSAG

selsta: does the devs have any idea what sufficient review on D++ looks like in practice before being released?

I don’t decide that

ye, but just general sentiment?

I guess if mooo and vtnerd are happy with it

sarang: will MRL one day decide on something or will we keep refining until we get to Triptych-38? :D

lol

My next step is C++ code, and I'd like some input from folks who do embedded hardware stuff

because of things like multisig that require some extra math

oof. SOME math is bad enough.

EXTRA math is too much for me.

What I don't want is for a full implementation to be completed, and then all of a sudden hear "oh, these devices can't do that"

makes sense. Maybe we can talk to michael or i_a

This is why I want CLSAG to happen

Ok, any other updates from a workgroup?

it's a very good intermediate step that works nicely with existing systems

About localizations and website: translators are active lately, which is good. About website. I'm heavily changing the structure of the roadmap, so we can add it to Weblate. I'm also changing the structure a bit (emojis instead of CSS geometric shapes)

after that i will try to put the user guides on weblate as well. And i already have nightmares about it

And after that can we get rid of the merchants page?

the merchants page is super ugly. Suggestions to improve it are welcome

deleting is an improvement

I use the Monero site on my portfolio, and I'm scared they'll find that page

I think it's cool to have a list of merchants, even if it's annoying to maintain. But yeah, it's bery ugly

*very

lol

ErCiccione: something a third party site would be better handling imo

either way

moving on

VR meeting tomorrow. 17 UTC.

there will be an agenda. Probably thrown together at the last second. Just come hang out. Eat virtual chips.

Moneroversary is April 18. Any thoughts on what to do for that?

No? Any other ideas, comments, or criticisms?

going ooooonce

going twiiiiice

okmeetingoverkthanksbai

sarang: what does cryptography say about when corona virus will be over?

can we encrypt it out of existence?

o_0

throw away the private key

inaccessible to everyone

unless quantum computing unlocks it again

For the versary let's have a meetup in virtual space

So long as tomorrow goes over half decently, sure

rehrar ErCiccione etc.: any recommended changes for my proposal?

xmrscott[m]: can you fork hubs and make it better plz? thanks.

sarang: dude you're a pro at this by now

just tell people you'll work sometimes for some Monero and they'll give it to you.

Nope. Looks fine to me

rehrar: Do we have anyone in the community that has some experience designing VR rooms and the like? May be best asking around on reddit or something now if VR is what is of interest to give enough time to create whatever in advance

OK thanks rehrar, just wanted to make sure

sarang one thing about CLSAG. Should we look for auditors?

(unrelated to your proposal)

xmrscott[m]: let's talk about this

My current plan is to wait until I get suraeNoether's final approval on the paper updates, and then confirm Teserakt's schedule

I am willing to do some searching, for sure. But I'm pretty swamped.

I can get that information to the audit workgroup

Maybe we can find a volunteer who, if he can't do the VR stuff himself, can find someone who can.

I'm hesitant to do auditor contacting again without a final paper

(this happened earlier)

sarang: Alright got it. So only 1 audit needed? I recall somebody saying one should be enough

This seems to be the general consensus, and I personally agree as well

makes sense

Internal review is still important, of course, for code

I would not rely on the paper being reviewed just because it's on IACR

Should we pole people to take a look at it? Even if i don't know how many in the community would be able to review it

Paper or code?

i was thinking about paper

code i think we have people

It's tough to find people with the right experience to review, outside of a formal review process for conferences etc.

i guess we have more chances for the review of the code

I'd expect so

sooo meeting over?

rehrar?

ye I said above

Meeting was over at 10:33 me thinks

Is the beer crawl happening today, or was that another today?

s/another today/another day

ah ok. I missed that :P

ErCiccione: once moneromooo decides whether to integrate my latest CLSAG PR into their branch, the code should be ready for review AFAIK

It works now, but I had some additional optimizations to include

Cool. Almost there then :)

Yep! And for the paper, I've left comments for suraeNoether

and then the paper can be updated on IACR (which can happen right away without the editors' queue)

rehrar: whom should I contact if/when it's time to move the proposal to FR?

Me or Luigi. If you tell me I'll tell Luigi.

=p

coolio

I'd like to maximize the time it's open before the end of the month, if it's otherwise agreed that it's time to open it