thats kewl # kinghat

digital currency = gift cards

hmmm

nioc, bitcoin is gift cards

REGISTER superSSHM9394 supersshm⊙ln

rip

<xmr-romine> .time

Monero doesn't really have a Discord community. That's fine, but many people use Discord. Should we create a Discord (or use an existing server) and have relays to Telegram at least?

alot of people use Discord and Telegram...

we need an oficial channel

<cankerwort> I'd be surprised if there wasn't already an unofficial Monero discord

there are some non-official efforts

There is a discord channel.

but they haven't gotten much love recently

But no love, it's true.

hi all. My name is Monis and we are looking to do an event in Greece with Monero. I am reaching out on behalf of the Greek Cryptocurrency community. We have bi monthly meetups which we record on zoom and upload on Youtube .

We have all the proof of work from our previous meetups on youtube. What is the right way to go here ? to raise a CCS proposal ?

What kind of event is this? Just a normal meetup?

Monisgr: hello

needmonero90: there's some additional context in #monero-konferenco if you're there

hi there. It is a meet up where we live stream from 2 locations.. Athens and Thessaloniki.. and our speakers (people from your community) join us through zoom

we build an agenda of educational talks.... design the banners.. set up the meetup.com links

on the meet up day.. we record the talks .. and upload it on youtube

the video stays there forever and it becomes both Monero's and the Greek community's legacy

We have done similar stuff with Zcash, Komodo, Cardano etc... ( I can share the videos from youtube) its time for a Monero meetup

Actually... it was always time for a monero meet up.. but... we had no idea where to look. We tried Telegram.. discord... we did not know about the IRC room here

Monisgr: can you link the other videos please?

Sure. Do you want me to post those in here ? or PM ?

Here.

ok cool. Our Zcash meet up youtube.com/watch?v=t9AHWEA1a7Y&t=180s

There aren't many closed doors in this ecosystem lol

our Komodo meet up youtube.com/watch?v=Zpll2XZt4o8&t=5041s

our Cardano meet up youtube.com/watch?v=LP0vq6b6kec&t=1061s

our Syscoin meet up youtube.com/watch?v=P5_CHc0jJCs&t=4412s

our meet up page meetup.com/Greek-Cryptocurrency-community/events/268860337

ignore previous link. thats the right one meetup.com/Greek-Cryptocurrency-community/events/past

<cankerwort> All of the CCS proposals in Funding Required appear to be fully funded and there are quite a few floating around in Ideas

So , what we require is cover some small expenses for our meetup (close to 300 EUR) that will cover renting space in Athens, zoom subscription, banner designer fee , equipment like Microphones and Tv screens etc AND we want you to present Monero to the Greek community. We would like someone to join us and present Monero to us

thanks Monisgr

My pleasure guys.

So.. is the CCS proposal the way to go ?

Will it look off topic if we raise a CCS ?

CCS is one possibility, you could also seek a corporate sponsor at that funding level.

We would prefer a community sponsor

There are a few Monero companies who would probably be interested in covering costs for a plug

we dont want to advertise anything else but Monero

Hm

it needs to be a Monero meet up and nothing else

and we are not making a cent out of this

everything will go to the expenses of the meet up

<cankerwort> There are a few highly respected monero companies though as needmoney said

<cankerwort> Might be worth hitting them up before writing up a ccs

hmmm we dont want to be funded by companies :(

we were always funded by communities

Monisgr: one of your past events was sponsored by the Electric Coin Company :p

we want to keep it as less commercial as possible

I get what you mean though

It was... but.. El Coin Company = zcash :)

we wanted a zcash meet up.. they said... this is the brand.. we said fine

but the Zcash foundation sponsored it

lol weird

oh well.. :)

so.... do you think we have chances if we fire up a CCS ?

I think you should have trouble getting speakers. Looks like you have a decent-sized following

what about funding ?

we are after 4 XMR.

<cankerwort> Go for it. Much less worthy ideas get proposed all the time.

Thanks man

I think the cost is certainly reasonable, but I also recommend following needmoney90's advice of asking for a sponsor. This is something Cake would probably be happy to do, and they aren't going to take over your entire meeting

we have never done anything like that but... I guess I will raise it with the rest of the admins

I can check if Mastering Monero can sponsor it with essentially 0 strings attached

ok.

That would be a neat sponsor

I was thinking cake or xmr.to, didn't even think of MM

300euro is no big deal, I could do that if no one else steps up. but again, since my company Symas donates my time to the Monero project, we would expect some credit / Symas logos being visible.

Thanks hyc

Monero: The Corporate Coin ^TM

(kidding)

:)

don't forget the Monero Enterprise Alliance!!

can someone elaborate a bit more on Mastering Monero ?

Justin ?

Monisgr: it's a free resource on Monero available here: masteringmonero.com

You can buy print editions but the content is the same as online

<cankerwort> amazon.com/Mastering-Monero-future-…tering+monero&qid=1582825639&sr=8-1

do you think they would be eager to sponsor our meet up and educate us as well ?

(Thanks , I was just making sure you are referring to the book)

I'm on the board of the company that publishes it, so I passed the message along

Thanks Justin

yeah np

I think for the reasonable request you will have a few options

awesome

The community here generally vouches for symas, cake, and xmr.to as well

I love the mastering monero idea

<cankerwort> Maybe tell everyone to read it before the meetup and make it a book club?

that d be nice :)

Ooo nice idea

There's a meetup in Atlanta that does that

<cankerwort> Maybe a paperback copy as a prize for something

<cankerwort> A raffle to fund your future meetups

The CCS doesn't feel like the right place for this kind of thing, but corporate sponsors for educational content does imo

Mastering Monero would be even better, since it's more community than company

Thing is... there are a lot of communities... with the same need to do a Monero meet up like we do

CCS could work but I think there are more active sponsorships going around now

exaclty needmoney90[m]

We want to have the event in May by the way

2nd of May

Thanks guys. I got all I need here. I will follow up on this. Appreciate it .

sgp_ ooooh sponsorships

Why pushing for contacting a sponsor? i think the CCS is the perfect place for requests like monisgr's. No commercial entities involved, simply a community sponsoring community stuff

ErCiccione[m]: glad someone said it

in an ideal world maybe, but we need a strong ecosystem of people willing to sponsor things too

I really don't think would be a big deal for the community to contribute funding a proposal in those terms. It's a small amount and sounds like a perfect fit for the CCS. Sounds more weird to me to redirect them to sponsors

Sponsors can still donate through the CCS medium, as far as I understand it.

They could even signal they did so, if required

fwiw I would still also support a CCS for this, but I think asking to see if sponsors were contacted is an important question before moving the CCS

for example, my university had a huge grants program for student groups, and they asked the groups about possible alternative sources of funding in the first stages of the grant application

Right but the model is different. In your explanation it's a top-down funding model, asking groups if they have access/made attemps to any other other top-down sources. In this instance a bottom-up model (the CCS) is asking if a group has tried the alternate top-down approach first.

I'm not sure i agree with that sgp_. Before contacting a sponsor, for such small amounts, i would prefer people to use the CCS. That would guarantee a cerain neutrality in the conversation. A sponsor might require that a certain subject is discussed, or in any case, can make requests, which is not the same for a community funded meetup.

s/is not the same/it's not the case

fwiw the case was extremely similar where student groups typically held meetings

But it's the source of funds that is different.

Which is what the whole ideology of the debate is about.

I don't see it as a major ideology debate, which is perhaps the main area we differ

I can see your perspective with ideology first

Like, if the student group was told not to fundraise by a charity student fundraising drive, and instead seek sponsorship from large (often corporate) entities, would that seem fair?

midipoet: I don't see it as anti-charity; the CCS isn't the only option

it's worth noting I'm generally in-between several people's ideas in how to view the CCS

Maybe charity was the wrong word to use. Campus fundraising drive is perhaps more adequate. Either way, it doesn't seem fair to restrict (or not advise) that option in this matter.

I want to shed light on something rehrar and I have been talking about for some time

We all know r/MoneroSupport exists and it has allowed many people to ask questions and have them answered by Monero fanatic volunteers (thank you)

BUT.... there's another opportunity to provide support

it turns out, there's a great open-source chat/ticket software: chatwoot.com

we wanted to originally have a chat feature for the Malware Response Workgroup. This eventually turned into an idea to have a live chat support option on the getmonero.org website

This seems riskier than something public and moderated

so it's not up yet, but expect some calls for volunteers soon for people to volunteer to answer questions there

sarang: risk of malicious contributors?

Yeah

With the public moderated forum, it's at least possible to see that and remove if needed

definitely an important concern, which is why we will need warnings for users not to submit info and the like

With direct 1-on-1 support, you lose that, no?

After all, what if someone says "oh, just run sudo rm etc."

there's still mod oversight I believe (it's meant for companies managing support accounts/employees)

that's not giving out a password or key, but would ruin your day

we definitely will only allow "trusted" people on the platform

those vetting processes are up for discussion

sarang: can you outline your main concerns?

obvious ones are someone asking for private keys

I don't have anything specific, just musing about the change from more public moderated platforms (where viewers can spot bad actors and flag or provide warnings) to more direct platforms (where there seems to be much less oversight)

Most people presumably know not to reveal private data on a very public forum, but having a 1-on-1 support chat probably changes the mentality

ideally there would be a banner with something like "this is a public chat with volunteer support. Do not submit sensitive information"

even if it's not completely public they will get the idea

hmm ok

this is all open for discussion, which is why I posted this here

I share sarang's concerns and i don't think we have shortage of support platforms: multple subreddits, multiple chats relayed on multiple platforms (at least 3 relays but some chats are relayed to more platforms), telegram, stack exchange, even social media like twitter. I sometimes even help people by email. A ticket system would create more problems than solutions and it's not really needed IMHO.

If it's deemed safe enough, it could be interesting to test it out and see how often it's used

What are we expecting people who need support to do now? Open an account on Reddit/StackExchange/etc and create a post

plus they need to find these support systems in the firstplace

With chatwoot, we can provide support through the website, @monero Twitter DMs, and more

we can eventually make bots that auto-reply to solve common issues

There are already multiple chatrooms that don't require registration. You can join a frenode room literally with a click. I think a ticket system gives the wrong feeling and i don't like the idea of "trusted individuals" giving support.

Are there even volunteers for this?

ErCiccione[m]: I personally find public chat rooms more intimidating than a 1 on 1

FWIW I have learned alot by observing other people asking questions and the answers they are giving

plus it will also allow us to quantify what issues people are having

sgp_: Maybe, but definitely safer. And if you say something wrong somebody can correct you

I want to make sure that the chat support system has similar oversight by knowledgeable people

I know it's not perfect, but I don't think a public chat is perfect either (people offline, randos giving advice in the interim, etc)

So you also need to make sure these people stay knowledgeable and aware of updates. WHo is going to check that they are as informed as they were 6 motnhs ago? This is an open community aterall, people can leave or stop following everytime. What if people keep giving suggestions unaware that things changed?

i don't know, i see a lot of issues and i really don't like the combo private chat + trusted members

I'm guilty of giving incorrect advice all the time

luckily companies have the same issues and have ways to try to handle them. this isn't only a Monero problem

I'm optimistic that some more formal process would help us put together better documentation for support, especially if we know what issues people keep having

I'm aware that may not happen

pointing people to uninformed support volunteers isn't a great outcome

We are not a company, we cannot use the same processes they use to give support. And trying to mimic that in a complete different situation, like ours, can ave disastrous effects. I prefer 'support volunteers' in public, which if wrong can be corrected anytime and the community can learn from each other. Also, who would take such responsability? I mean, if you give a wrong advice and somebody get pissed, you

definitely give the feeling of being some "official" support (especially if the system would work on getmonero, thing that i'm even strongly against) you can totally expect a law suit. And then i want to see to explain that you are just a volunteer giving support... on a ticket system.. on the "offiial"

"official website"

As i said, i see so many drawbacks that i really think would be a bad idea. That's my opinion

I'm not at all concerned about threats of lawsuits

Well, there would be some question of liability if someone was pointed to the official support ticketing system, on the official website, but then got the wrong help.

We are only a step away from having an official support manual being written for the volunteers then as well.

However, I suppose Reddit/Stack exchange may be viewed similarly.

I hear your legal concerns, but I respectfully don't believe they are significant. Monero's optics of a decentralized community are stronger than anything else I've seen, except maybe Bitcoin

The only concern I could see is if there was gross negligence and the service effectively was there to just steal seeds

But even that is very different than a single user being a bad actor

We can create a terms of service and privacy policy if people are paranoid