00:20:36 <jonah_xd[m]> <NickvanSaberhagn "Anyone here responsible for xmrc"> would be nice if they run their own node instead of bridging other nodes
00:29:32 <NickvanSaberhagn> Someone needs a hug 🤗
00:31:28 <nutkee[m]> Tnx
00:41:13 <moneromoon[m]> i dont really gamble but i was curious if monero.win was actually random so i scrapped the results of the previous 17k blocks <_< turns out the final character is completely random lol
00:42:50 * moneromoon[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/EBqMYzhrLfuPOhIDDIBrxNke/message.txt >
00:47:58 <gingeropolous> jonah_xd[m], wat?
00:49:10 <jonah_xd[m]> they arn't hosting a monero node according to reddit, they request a list of the blockchain from another service
00:49:30 <gingeropolous> nope, other way around
00:49:42 <gingeropolous> xmrchain.net does host a node, some other explorer pulls data from xmrchain
00:50:37 <ndorf> moneromoon[m]: nice
00:53:52 <moneromoon[m]> i was bored xD
00:54:04 <moneromoon[m]> gotta check if I cant rig your game in my favor...
00:54:05 <moneromoon[m]> lol
00:55:18 <gingeropolous> man, are my reddit posts that unintelligible?
02:32:51 <meteo> test
02:35:36 <ndorf> fail
03:12:55 <mark_bleep[m]> Does anyone know about documentation on how to integrate payment id into a website to issue unique purchase addresses?
03:12:55 <mark_bleep[m]> I found the php one but are there any others people can recommend?
03:28:35 <gingeropolous> mark_bleep[m], you want to avoid payment ID and use a subaddress
03:29:59 <gingeropolous> checkout the monero ecosystem on github. there might be something there
03:32:36 <mark_bleep[m]> Ok, I thought payment id was how subaddresses were created.
03:32:36 <mark_bleep[m]> I've been roaming around GitHub but sometimes people have gems they recommend
03:33:03 <gingeropolous> do you know of zero-to-monero?
03:33:56 <gingeropolous> this is the ecosystem github mark_bleep[m] : https://github.com/monero-ecosystem
07:12:08 <strike> .balance
07:12:08 <Wallet> strike: • Your balance is: 0.0018173 XMR (≈0.37 USD)
11:36:04 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Kraken wants me to upload a picture of me holding my ID along with handwritten notes. What the actual f*ck?!?
11:41:25 <Alabalistic> same with crypto.com for me, something get wrong anyway and I endup happy in binance
11:43:29 <kdlt8ggf[m]> This stuff should be illegal. Isn't it under the GDPR?
11:44:09 <kdlt8ggf[m]> They're asking me to do it via unencrypted email after all.
11:57:10 <charolastra> kdlt8ggf[m]: are you in EU?
11:57:43 <Alabalistic> kdlt8ggf[m]: some addon was with crypto.com,
11:58:00 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Obviously since I mentioned the GDPR.
11:58:12 <Alabalistic> now when you point it out is a bizare
12:02:39 <ForestMapper> hey :)
12:02:48 <ForestMapper> is it possible to mine monero with nodejs?
12:14:17 <charolastra> actually making a copy of my ID and uploading it is illegal. but what are you gonna do, sue Kraken?
12:16:15 <kdlt8ggf[m]> The f*ck is wrong with companies these days. This is the kind of stuff you'd expect from Facebook.
12:18:10 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Oh wait let me guess, my account was flagged for being engaged in suspicious activity by being in possession of oh so scary dark web currency Monero, right. FFS
12:18:45 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Am I now on a list of possible drone targets?
12:30:54 <sech1> Are you verified on Kraken?
12:32:10 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Used to be
12:33:23 <sech1> They have 5000 USD daily withdrawal limit for unverified accounts, maybe you exceeded it
12:33:42 <sech1> I don't know, I sold Monero there a couple of times and didn't have problems
12:35:20 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Yeah no, I didn't.
12:41:44 <kdlt8ggf[m]> It's a new account though but I was already verified.
12:43:32 <angrymonkeyboi[m> Are crypto ATMs without KYC legal in the US?
12:44:58 <kdlt8ggf[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "Are crypto ATMs without KYC lega"> Screw this, we should just dump a ton of sand in the middle of the ocean and create our own country where KYC is illegal.
12:45:14 <angrymonkeyboi[m> lol no, I think we need KYC
12:45:20 <angrymonkeyboi[m> for large sums of money*
12:46:04 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Monerostan maybe
12:46:25 <angrymonkeyboi[m> most of the the *istan countries have very strict banking regulations
12:46:35 <kdlt8ggf[m]> stan just means land lol
12:46:40 <angrymonkeyboi[m> yes
12:46:59 <l33t_bit[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "most of the the *istan countries"> Americastan
12:47:46 <kdlt8ggf[m]> The Private Republic of Monerostan
12:48:20 <l33t_bit[m]> Whenever I read KYC I always read it as KYS, which bothers me about the same.
12:49:26 <kdlt8ggf[m]> First sentence in our new constitution: KYC is illegal and punishable under the offense of terrorism.
12:50:39 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Basically treat KYC supporters as terrorists just like they see us probably lol
12:50:43 <l33t_bit[m]> KYC is a violation of your right against unwarranted search and seizure. In most western countries, the government would need a warrant to look inside your pocketbook. Why don't they need one to see if you withdrew 20$ from Kraken?
12:51:27 <kdlt8ggf[m]> <l33t_bit[m] "KYC is a violation of your right"> ikr the f*cking audacity these companies have
12:52:40 <l33t_bit[m]> Worse is credit card companies.
12:53:27 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Facebook is what started it all.
12:54:17 <l33t_bit[m]> They charge 5% to vendors and maintain the right to decide certain businesses should not exist. If the major banks that operate credit cards decide they don't like your business, you are out of business.
12:54:45 <l33t_bit[m]> Enforcing antitrust has gone out of style in the west so they can use that to eliminate competition for firms they invest in.
12:55:00 <kdlt8ggf[m]> And that's what they call democracy and a free market? lol right
12:56:21 <l33t_bit[m]> <kdlt8ggf[m] "And that's what they call democr"> There has never been a successful democracy, the only stable governments are constitutional republics. Most western nations have mixed economies, not free markets. Even the US.
12:57:14 <kdlt8ggf[m]> I know, they should just stop calling it that.
12:57:16 <l33t_bit[m]> Democracy is just a buzzword people in constitutional republics use.
12:57:44 <l33t_bit[m]> <kdlt8ggf[m] "I know, they should just stop ca"> I admit, I'm being pedantic here.
12:57:49 <angrymonkeyboi[m> KYC is good because it stops the evil people. I think there needs to be a limit on transaction size. Above that, you need KYC
12:58:03 <angrymonkeyboi[m> Think politicians getting secret bribe money
12:58:07 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Kind of democracy wink wink and free market for monopolies.
12:58:11 <l33t_bit[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "KYC is good because it stops the"> In theory, yes, in practice, no.
12:58:47 <l33t_bit[m]> In practice, evil people will find ways to evade prosecution.
12:58:50 <kdlt8ggf[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "KYC is good because it stops the"> I'd argue KYC supporters are the worst kind of evil.
12:59:14 <l33t_bit[m]> At best you might catch a corner dope peddler. Tell me how many arrests came out of the panama papers?
12:59:31 <l33t_bit[m]> The people in charge of KYC are the ones laundering money.
12:59:41 <angrymonkeyboi[m> You're arguing two different things
13:00:08 <angrymonkeyboi[m> the panama papers thing was just plain old corruption that they didn't get fined
13:00:30 <angrymonkeyboi[m> or go to jail for tax evasion
13:00:41 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Someone should make an open source non profit exchange, accept cash by mail and give the finger to KYC.
13:00:53 <moneromooo> Do it.
13:00:57 <l33t_bit[m]> <kdlt8ggf[m] "Someone should make an open sour"> Then later be arrested...
13:00:59 <angrymonkeyboi[m> like localmonero? 😆
13:01:26 <kdlt8ggf[m]> <l33t_bit[m] "Then later be arrested..."> Not if you're based on some private island somewhere haha
13:01:29 <l33t_bit[m]> angrymonkeyboi: I would like to know what my second point is.
13:01:56 <kdlt8ggf[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "like localmonero? 😆"> Not useful if the sellers there do individual KYC.
13:02:03 <angrymonkeyboi[m> <l33t_bit[m] "angrymonkeyboi: I would like to "> Just because there's corruption, doesn't mean we shouldn't have any laws
13:02:18 <angrymonkeyboi[m> instead of throwing out laws, we should fix the corruption
13:02:30 <l33t_bit[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "Just because there's corruption,"> If the laws produce corruption, then there is no way around it.
13:02:36 <angrymonkeyboi[m> we should also throw out bad laws. but i don't think kyc is a bad law
13:02:44 <l33t_bit[m]> Why?
13:02:56 <l33t_bit[m]> What good does KYC do?
13:03:10 <kdlt8ggf[m]> It is if it violates your human right to privacy by allowing warrentless collection of data.
13:03:19 <angrymonkeyboi[m> Stops terrorizers. Foreign funding of operatives, etc
13:03:29 <l33t_bit[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "Stops terrorizers. Foreign fundi"> Prove it
13:03:33 <angrymonkeyboi[m> stops tax evasion
13:03:35 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Heard of the concept of warrents?
13:03:37 <l33t_bit[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "stops tax evasion"> Prove it
13:04:06 <kdlt8ggf[m]> KYC is a Nazi law, there I said it.
13:04:08 <angrymonkeyboi[m> 😆
13:05:41 <angrymonkeyboi[m> Let's say there's an ATM that sells XMR but requires you hold up your ID in front of the camera
13:05:43 <angrymonkeyboi[m> who cares. XMR is private and fungible. it's only a problem for shitcoins like bitcoin
13:05:44 <angrymonkeyboi[m> as soon as you transfer to your own wallet, it can't be tracked any more
13:06:29 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Unless they freeze ie rob your funds.
13:06:43 <angrymonkeyboi[m> <kdlt8ggf[m] "Unless they freeze ie rob your f"> I agree there. Freezing funds is evil
13:06:54 <angrymonkeyboi[m> At worse, they should decline the transaction
13:07:36 <kdlt8ggf[m]> KYC treats us like terrorists. It's time to treat KYC like terrorism.
13:07:43 <l33t_bit[m]> I would love to eliminate corruption, but until that happens (if it does) KYC doesn't serve much purpose.
13:08:12 <kdlt8ggf[m]> ie state and company terrorism
13:08:18 <l33t_bit[m]> How about we agree that until corruption is eliminated, we eliminate KYC.
13:08:31 <DisBotXMR> <Fyse> what if you're under 18
13:08:33 <DisBotXMR> <Fyse> ^-^
13:08:38 <l33t_bit[m]> On an international level.
13:09:33 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Seriously, f*ck this. We need an alternative society that runs on open source and non profit institutions.
13:12:10 <l33t_bit[m]> Anyways, good night to those of you who live in Asia.
13:14:28 <kdlt8ggf[m]> We seriously need to find solutions for this crap. Otherwise Monero and crypto in general is just gonna end up like the internet. From a wild west in the 90s to the Google and Facebook dystopia today.
13:16:36 <angrymonkeyboi[m> <kdlt8ggf[m] "Seriously, f*ck this. We need an"> non-profits = non-incentives
13:16:55 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Not necessarily.
13:18:07 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Maybe do it like Mozilla. Have for profit companies under the control of non profits.
13:18:09 <angrymonkeyboi[m> Look at what happened in China/USSR. When governments took away all incentives for farmers to innovate, their agro industry was abysmal. As soon as those same governments allowed their farmers to take profits from their labor, their productivity sky-rocketed
13:18:49 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Oh yeah right. Heavens of privacy, free market and democracy.
13:20:12 <kdlt8ggf[m]> <kdlt8ggf[m] "Maybe do it like Mozilla. Have f"> Works just fine this way.
13:20:42 <kdlt8ggf[m]> Well if you don't count Google but that's a completely seperate issue.
13:22:21 <kdlt8ggf[m]> * Well if you don't count Google but that's a completely separate issue.
13:24:29 <kdlt8ggf[m]> I mean the open source movement and things like Linux has shown us that good software and services can be created that actually respect users. The same idea should apply to everything.
13:27:23 <angrymonkeyboi[m> You have to remember Mozilla only exists because Google pays them a ton of $$$
13:27:28 <angrymonkeyboi[m> That's basically their only income
13:27:49 <angrymonkeyboi[m> And google only gives them money so they don't get broken up under monopoly laws
13:41:22 <hv-bridge> <musmo> there's opera
13:41:25 <hv-bridge> <musmo> and netscape
13:47:07 <l33t_bit[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "You have to remember Mozilla onl"> And mozilla has been ... weird.... recently.
13:47:52 <jonah_xd[m]> when they announced to support censorship is where i stop using their stuff
13:48:03 <l33t_bit[m]> <kdlt8ggf[m] "We seriously need to find soluti"> If we wind up with a crypto with quantitative easing, that would be bad. https://youtu.be/Ro7lrA781To
13:51:01 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "when they announced to support c"> When you rely on donations, Censorship pays...
13:51:36 <jonah_xd[m]> i don't know about that conclusion
13:52:01 <jonah_xd[m]> many rely on donations and still hold their principles
13:52:56 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "i don't know about that conclusi"> If it's true that Google provides the majority of their donations, then that explains why they are changing course on censorship.
13:53:34 <jonah_xd[m]> corrolation = causation fallacy
13:53:49 <l33t_bit[m]> Not saying anything about correlation.
13:53:56 <angrymonkeyboi[m> <l33t_bit[m] "If it's true that Google provide"> I'm out of the loop on this. What are they censoring?
13:54:27 <jonah_xd[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "I'm out of the loop on this. Wha"> things that they don't agree with
13:54:31 <l33t_bit[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "I'm out of the loop on this. Wha"> Nothing, they just said stuff in favor of  censorship on their blog.
13:54:34 <jonah_xd[m]> look at their recent tweet
13:54:55 <jonah_xd[m]> <l33t_bit[m] "If it's true that Google provide"> this is a correlation argument
13:55:16 <jonah_xd[m]> we can't know for sure what caused the change of their principle
13:55:33 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "this is a correlation argument"> That isn't what I meant. I meant that large organizations like Google, and various PACs are putting money behind censorship.
13:55:45 <jonah_xd[m]> ohhhh i see
13:55:58 <jonah_xd[m]> yeah i came late your conversation
13:56:08 <l33t_bit[m]> It's more of a 'taek this money to get rid of stuff we don't like' than real donations.
13:56:21 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "yeah i came late your conversati"> I was vague.
13:56:29 <jonah_xd[m]> its alright no pressure
13:57:26 <jonah_xd[m]> well honestly google is a bad corporation, their history shows
13:57:58 <l33t_bit[m]> Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. not very nice
13:58:08 <jonah_xd[m]> yes
13:58:44 <l33t_bit[m]> Apple wasn't that bad, but their restrictions to the app store are pretty bad. If bundling IE with windows was an antitrust violation, what apple is doing is Criminal.
13:59:04 <l33t_bit[m]> They blocked the brave browser from paying out BAT on ios.
13:59:39 <l33t_bit[m]> Also, if you use firefox or chrome, switch to brave and use BAT to support content creators (or keep it all for yourself).
14:00:02 <l33t_bit[m]> And trade it for monero :)
14:00:25 <jonah_xd[m]> thing is you can't pull the BAT from the brave wallet browser
14:00:54 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "thing is you can't pull the BAT "> That sucks, but it's a KYC/regulatory issue. It's even worse in Japan.
14:01:19 <l33t_bit[m]> You can pull the bat through an exchange though, you just have to do KYC.
14:02:01 <l33t_bit[m]> You need a minimum balance of 25BAT to withdraw thoguh.
14:02:05 <l33t_bit[m]>  * You need a minimum balance of 25BAT to withdraw though.
14:03:08 <jonah_xd[m]> bruh thats 10$
14:03:13 <jonah_xd[m]> not even worth it
14:03:47 <l33t_bit[m]> Yeah, but if you average $1 a day in BAT, after a year it adds up.
14:04:07 <jonah_xd[m]> ifk how you could manage 1$ a day
14:04:14 <jonah_xd[m]>  * idk how you could manage 1$ a day
14:04:33 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "ifk how you could manage 1$ a da"> Work at your computer all day.
14:04:50 <jonah_xd[m]> i do xd
14:04:54 <l33t_bit[m]> Next quarter you willl be able to use your Gemini account to withdraw if you have one.
14:04:58 <jonah_xd[m]> i'm a busy dude
14:05:05 <l33t_bit[m]>  * Next quarter you will be able to use your Gemini account to withdraw if you have one.
14:05:23 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "i'm a busy dude"> Then you are missing out on $1 in BAT every day.
14:05:37 <jonah_xd[m]> how is that possible ?
14:06:04 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "how is that possible ?"> How much do you average?
14:06:26 <jonah_xd[m]> idk a cent or 2
14:07:17 <jonah_xd[m]> sometimes i don't get rewarded at all
14:07:18 <jonah_xd[m]> and i have ads on max per day
14:07:51 <jonah_xd[m]> ye 5 ads per hour
14:07:51 <l33t_bit[m]> I get .05 bat per add
14:07:53 <l33t_bit[m]> What country do you live in?
14:08:08 <jonah_xd[m]> North africa currently
14:08:24 <l33t_bit[m]> Maybe adds are cheaper there.
14:08:54 <jonah_xd[m]> probably
14:09:21 <jonah_xd[m]> crypto is illegal in N africa though
14:09:52 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "crypto is illegal in N africa th"> Lol, why are you here then?
14:10:08 <jonah_xd[m]> they have the best hotels
14:10:38 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "they have the best hotels"> I meant forums for assets you can't use.
14:11:05 <jonah_xd[m]> wdym ?
14:11:29 <l33t_bit[m]> <jonah_xd[m] "wdym ?"> You live in a country where crypto is illegal, yet you are on a forum for crypto.
14:11:39 <jonah_xd[m]> yes
14:11:43 <jonah_xd[m]> i don't live there
14:12:00 <jonah_xd[m]> i'm a foreigner to them
14:12:10 <jonah_xd[m]> thats what i meant by "currently"
14:12:28 <jonah_xd[m]> https://matrix.to/#/!psOvWRiQkyosOPKvaO:matrix.org/$mxgUIWVaOQsK_mJld2qVgAXECN2leDuQvhFsMtiSE9U?via=matrix.org&via=monero.social&via=privacytools.io
14:21:46 <l33t_bit[m]> Well, back to the topic of Monero.
14:22:54 <l33t_bit[m]> I wonder if transferring tokens through a blockchain protocol based on Monero would allow pandemic contact tracing in a way that can't be used to track people and remove their privacy.
14:42:19 <angrymonkeyboi[m> Do you guys think their's a market for XMR ATMs, or is the market too small for that?
14:46:49 <hv-bridge> <musmo> there's always a market for anything
14:50:32 <l33t_bit[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "Do you guys think their's a mark"> <Neo Face> What if I told you that when you are ready, you won't need ATMs.
15:00:24 <angrymonkeyboi[m> What do you mean
15:01:49 <l33t_bit[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "What do you mean"> If crypto becomes the standard currency for day to day transactions, you wouldn't need an atm, as your wallet would replace your checking account.
15:32:13 <gingeropolous> i think there's a market for xmr atms
15:32:56 <gingeropolous> for people that learn about monero, they generally want as little aml kyc as possible. now, dunno if many atms can exist like that, but, maybe angrymonkeyboi[m
15:38:49 <endor00[m]> Problem with crypto atms is that they're not easy to set up and maintain (if you wanna do it right)
15:39:33 <endor00[m]> Lots of costs that need to be amortized with scale, and that's something that you can only do realistically as a company, imo
15:41:56 <angrymonkeyboi[m> <endor00[m] "Problem with crypto atms is that"> What difficulties do you see? If it's viable, I can raise funding
15:43:48 <endor00[m]> The biggest issue imo is paying for a service handling secure cash handling at your machines (withdrawing/depositing cash to maintain a certain amount of liquidity in the machine)
15:45:41 <endor00[m]> The other parts are doable, just kinda expensive per unit cost so it's more convenient to aim for bulk pricing: the physical shell (secure, hard to tamper and to lift/steal, hard to access the internal computer), the bill processing unit, a small computer to run the basic software you need
15:46:21 <endor00[m]> Plus implementing a frontend (for the ATMs) and a backend handling the order requests and status monitoring
15:56:58 <gingeropolous> i wonder if you could make the arms more self maintainable by offering better / worse rates depending on the amount of cash in the machine
15:57:05 <gingeropolous> tho then you'd have ppl arbing the atms
15:59:39 <angrymonkeyboi[m> Too bad you can't send cash from ATM to ATM like you can with crypto :(
16:02:35 <hv-bridge> <musmo> if WU is considered as a type of ATM, then yes
16:04:15 <ry`an> don't any of the atm networks supporting multiple cryptos offer xmr?
16:15:36 <gingeropolous> ppl with low disk space do exist: https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/lqjmud/not_enough_space_for_local_node/
16:27:53 <kreyren> How can i buy monero?
16:27:53 <kreyren> i have no idea what am i doing
16:27:54 <kreyren> ;-;
16:29:02 <l33t_bit[m]> The key to being an expert is to have no idea what you are doing, with style.
16:29:03 <donkeydonkey[m]> localmonero.co
16:29:03 <l33t_bit[m]> ^
16:29:37 <kreyren> cash by mail? O.o
16:30:11 <moneromooo> If you have no idea what you are doing and still want some, kraken is probably safest. They'll ask you to dox yourself though.
16:30:13 <kreyren> like i put a money in a letter and sent that with post office?
16:30:34 <l33t_bit[m]> If you prefer to get the exact current exchange rate, are willing to provide you name, dob, passport, mother's grandmothers maiden name, pant size, favorite color, etc. You can use a centralized exchange like kraken.
16:30:57 <kreyren> i want to transfer those as privately as possible
16:31:04 <l33t_bit[m]> <kreyren "like i put a money in a letter a"> There are some people on localmonero who will accept electronic transfers from your bank
16:31:14 <l33t_bit[m]> <kreyren "i want to transfer those as priv"> Then mailing cash is your best bet
16:31:46 <DisBotXMR> <Fyse> if you live in the EU, binance is pretty good
16:31:48 <kreyren> so is that just placing money in a postcard or something and sending that through post office?
16:32:34 <l33t_bit[m]> <DisBotXMR "<Fyse> if you live in the EU, bi"> outside of the EU binance is lame
16:33:02 <DisBotXMR> <Fyse> EU+UK*
16:33:12 <DisBotXMR> <Fyse> no kyc, 0.075% trade fees
16:33:16 <l33t_bit[m]> <DisBotXMR "<Fyse> EU+UK*"> what is <fyse>?
16:33:46 <DisBotXMR> <Fyse> EU and the UK
16:33:49 <DisBotXMR> <Fyse> (uk left the eu)
16:34:13 <l33t_bit[m]> Why do you start every message with <Fyse>?
16:34:30 <DisBotXMR> <Fyse> I'm speaking through a discord bridge
16:34:45 * kreyren is still confused
16:34:59 <moneromooo> <Fyse> It's OK.
16:35:28 <moneromooo> Fyse is the user name, DisBotXMR is a bot ferrying the chat around.
16:35:50 <DisBotXMR> <Fyse> Yup
16:36:34 <l33t_bit[m]> Why use discord?
16:37:29 <DisBotXMR> <Fyse> because I have access to other Discord servers, including my own
16:43:41 <l33t_bit[m]> Are messages from this channel mirrored to the discord?
16:43:55 <l33t_bit[m]> So the two channels are synced together?
16:45:23 <moneromooo> Allegedly, yes.
16:48:19 <gingeropolous> so how do we make the public remote node infrastructure more like the electrum servers
16:49:21 <gingeropolous> because they are permissionless.... right? anyone can run an electrum server
16:49:50 <endor00[m]> Public rpc is pretty much it
16:50:18 <endor00[m]> Unless you wanna host the mymonero-like lightwallet and offer it as a service
16:50:59 <gingeropolous> well i guess electrum has the same downside
16:51:20 <endor00[m]> But you incur in the usual computational cost of server-side scanning + viewkey privacy loss
16:51:28 <gingeropolous> according to https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Electrum , "Public Electrum servers run by strangers can easily spy on Electrum users. For this reason many people run their own server. For maximum trustlessness, privacy and security; users should point Electrum to their own servers. "
16:51:59 <gingeropolous> of course the difference is no one gives a shit about privacy in bitcoinland
16:53:07 <endor00[m]> MyMonero-style lightwallets are basically Electrum, the only issue is that scanning to update a wallet is much harder for us
16:53:16 <endor00[m]> Oh!
16:53:41 <gingeropolous> well yeah and you have to basically keep an "account" open for a given user
16:53:43 <endor00[m]> We could incorporate the lightwallet software inside pinode-xmr!
16:53:51 <endogenic> yes, do
16:54:00 <gingeropolous> and a user is effectively encouraged to maintain a relationship with a given node
16:54:03 <gingeropolous> for better or worse
16:54:45 <endor00[m]> That way they get a bonus incentive to run a node 24/7: no need to sync your wallet because it's always running on the node
16:55:07 <gingeropolous> yeah any prepackaged monero node device product / build script should have mymonero-type stuff installed and the onion explorer
16:55:18 <endogenic> endor00[m]: some other groups are working on that too. if you can do it, it'd be popular
16:56:10 <gingeropolous> u still have the problem of punching holes through router firewalls, but i guess if thats the only hurdle some % will figure it out
16:56:31 <endor00[m]> Looking into it right now, might actually be within reach of my skill level
16:56:54 <gingeropolous> of course my in-laws can't figure out why our zoom calls don't work on their tablet when it turns out their wifi isn't connected
16:56:55 <gingeropolous> so ...
16:57:49 <endor00[m]> endogenic: are the looking into it as a standalone/separate product, or is there already work in progress of integrating openmonero inside pinode-xmr?
16:58:30 <endogenic> the former
16:59:35 <endogenic> personally i'd rather see vtnerd's lws on those nodes
16:59:59 <endogenic> and focus effort.. then frontends can point to the api they want
17:00:39 <endogenic> openmonero is fine too though. decent mvp
17:01:00 <gingeropolous> but now novice admins could be targets of knaccc attack kinda maybe
17:01:32 <endogenic> exposing user IPs is not fun either
17:01:49 <gingeropolous> yeah. but being able to grab a bunch of viewkeys not good
17:01:55 <endor00[m]> Oh cool, I was not aware of vtnerd's implementation. Is it already "shippable", or still a WIP?
17:02:33 <SerHack> endor00[m] : I'm testing it and it seems almost shippable
17:02:50 <SerHack> it requires some maintenance but it's really light on my server
17:03:09 <endor00[m]> Interesting, what kind of maintenance?
17:03:54 <endor00[m]> Oh I see the issues on github
17:06:05 <vtnerd> yeah its a good base but could use some features
17:07:09 <vtnerd> its already using lmdb, zmq-pub and amd64 asm (when available), and so it should be light-weight and quick as SerHack mentioned. some improvements to epee http might be heplful though
17:08:53 <SerHack> I set up the cheapest vps I could find, and I compiled Monero and light wallet successfully! The server is extremely light with few accounts (6) on stagenet
17:11:39 <SerHack> (for frontend, I used openmonero files and they work smoothly )
17:21:56 <gingeropolous> is lws a viewkey-scanner thing?
17:22:21 <gingeropolous> ah yes just saw the readme
17:22:25 <gingeropolous> <--- doofus
17:46:28 <endogenic> gingeropolous:  i mean in addition
20:27:44 <strike> .bal
20:27:45 <Wallet> strike: 0.0018173 XMR
20:28:12 <mfoolb> .balance
20:28:13 <Wallet> mfoolb: • Your balance is: 0.00618854 XMR (≈1.24 USD)
20:28:36 <strike> .balance
20:28:36 <Wallet> strike: • Your balance is: 0.0018173 XMR (≈0.36 USD)
21:53:21 <pagirios[m]> Just noticed a <...>founded MyMonero (soon becoming MetaQuiet)<...> under fluffypony’s bio in clubhouse. Are they just rebranding or is there something more? Anyone knows anything?
21:53:53 <endogenic> lol wtf
21:55:43 <pagirios[m]> Or maybe it’s some kind of a joke that i don’t get
21:56:04 <endogenic> indeed
22:53:47 <CoryVx> zmshAyk1ZfMcsyKzssHZYHZ0mZGuE7zf0qmUlMMfHHR6m4flEWFlyXGKB07P2j4WDMCRUqUxStzXkAUVyGZzEuWMYTb3UazWgK9F4AmhRc0QVNubrbFGoUcc
22:55:31 <lannister> WI1YCr0VCwOPspseJ37rSrJ10DN77i5VFOj2SjpRDtXk4JW00249tIA19WkI8AtJTMJNFNk7FwBPm96E4cvgwGGOKZHqjOZ7bji4GBCvxloHEdxmmhKwirhk
22:58:51 <endor00[m]> Is this some new secret code that only the cool kids will get?
22:59:16 <apotheon> I think it's just spammy junk.
22:59:25 <apotheon> It looks like Freenode is under attack again.
23:00:05 <apotheon> The one channel of mine that is getting these messages just got the channel mode set to +m so only opped people have to see it, and ops can then grant voice to anyone who isn't perpetrating a flood attack.
23:00:51 <apotheon> I managed to get the channel mute mode in place after the first such message today, and saved the community from the ongoing floods.  It helps that I started seeing it in other channels first.
23:06:11 <apollo13Hk> 2ykhbnmgogtUAkrPHwvB5svFVg43EHc9Z8D68WrWX9tvzyjQNTeAcIP87wFlFP
23:06:21 <apollo13Hk> 6VXRY8rDYl70wIF5XsrUjNgKZEPTgwMxT5SPII3zR9RTSuy81VTDMY9o9p7ZwW
23:06:25 <apollo13Hk> 5U7l9epllEtQTsS2LRGDt92T2gUw73lqUoztGrRsoimiAgzWQFL9AY6W0drQdD
23:06:29 <apollo13Hk> 9wwKoukK12H5QbiYv0xev9San7mOa3PGBUUVWW8gBSy7IeircRQwG9ma6ZEZNN
23:06:36 <apollo13Hk> D0JOplXOM6g7AsyHZGW3SBPXzxYN7gT4iFFg2ULGgu2T1N70hhgWpeQ2UQzwwV
23:07:09 <charolastra> apotheon: thanks, but doesn't seem to help
23:07:21 <ry`an> apollo13Hk: ty
23:08:04 <apotheon> charolastra: What do you mean?
23:09:53 <charolastra> didn't apollo13Hk just spam, too?
23:10:32 <apotheon> yeah
23:10:49 <selsta> no one changed channel mode
23:10:53 <apotheon> Did you change the channel mode with `/mode #monero +m` ?
23:11:01 <selsta> freenode staff will deal with it anyway
23:11:12 <apotheon> Last time this happened, the flooding went on for weeks.
23:11:23 <apotheon> (last time I really noticed it anyway)
23:11:24 <apotheon> maybe months
23:11:40 <selsta> last large spam attack was years ago iirc
23:11:53 <selsta> at least the one I remember
23:13:11 <ry`an> right, the freenode pedophile conspiracy
23:13:25 <apotheon> How long ago was that?
23:13:43 <ry`an> https://freenode.net/news/spam-shake
23:13:45 <apotheon> maybe two years, probably less I think
23:13:51 <ry`an> more than two years
23:13:52 <ry`an> christel on 2018-08-06
23:14:00 <apotheon> ah, yeah, something like 1.5 years
23:14:01 <selsta> yea that's the one I meant
23:14:32 <apotheon> It sorta long-tailed a bit, though, so the end of it was rather later than that post.
23:14:40 <ry`an> that one went on for ages
23:14:45 <apotheon> yep
23:15:12 <ry`an> it was on other networks too
23:15:16 <ry`an> https://freenode.net/news/joe-job-spam
23:15:22 <ry`an> I think this one from 2017 was a part of the same campaign
23:17:57 <gingeropolous> is there any way to keep the viewkey encrypted, such that when the client connects they provide the decryption key to let the remote server do the scanning?
23:18:08 <moneromooo> Yes: exit
23:18:15 <gingeropolous> of course, nullifies the ability of the viewkey scanning node to do it in the background
23:18:27 <gingeropolous> like, when the client is not connected
23:18:40 <moneromooo> er wait, give the server hte viewkey ?
23:18:51 <gingeropolous> yeah, like mymonero
23:19:01 <gingeropolous> i guess yeah it could just give it during the scan
23:19:07 <gingeropolous> duh. thats prolly what openmonero does?
23:19:10 <moneromooo> Oh, alright, no idea about mymonero. I thought you were talking about the wallet.
23:19:20 <ndorf> afaik, openmonero does not store the view key.
23:19:27 <gingeropolous> ah.
23:19:45 <ndorf> the protocol requires it on every request, it's up to the server to store it or not
23:20:23 <gingeropolous> gotcha
23:21:02 <gingeropolous> how to prevent these servers from being easter baskets of viewkeys, txs, and IPs ...
23:22:29 <donkeydonkey[m]> could store it in the users encrypted cookies and pass it on every request like you do auth for web apps
23:23:12 <ndorf> it's already passed on every request
23:23:24 <donkeydonkey[m]> figured it might be.
23:57:48 <gingeropolous> i mean, i guess you could just wave it away with "admin opsec"