00:20:14 <h2017> xmr closed green in both usd and btc on the 3d. same for the 1 d
00:29:20 <h2017> sorry wrong chant
00:29:22 <h2017> chan
00:38:50 <Forbo[m]> Can anyone help me to understand the downsides to proof of stake? In particular, I've been wondering about hybrid systems, where they use both PoW and PoS. What are the flaws to an approach like this? I'm wondering what benefits this sort of approach could yield, and if there's anything that could be worth implementing in Monero.
00:41:29 <Forbo[m]> It's probably a dumb question, but is this essentially what Tari tries to fulfill? Forgive my ignorance, I'm still trying to learn as much as I can about these things.
00:52:31 <moneromooo> I've not looked at it in detail, but AIUI, one major problem with PoS is that once you get > 50%, you can sustain it forever after.
00:53:01 <moneromooo> Tari will use two PoW (randomx and something based on SHA-3 AFAIK). No PoS.
00:53:25 <moneromooo> Townforge (a monero fork) might be using a randomx/PoS hybrid, mostly because fun, not for security.
00:53:54 <moneromooo> Searching for "nothing at stake" should get you some interesting tidbits about this.
00:54:56 <Forbo[m]> Much appreciated! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
00:57:31 <moneromooo> zcash also looked this hybrid mining and IIRC concluded it has drawbacks for security.
00:59:03 <moneromooo> Can't recall whether they looked at PoW+PoS or several PoW though.
00:59:17 <moneromooo> I think the conclusions are mostly independent of this though.
00:59:44 <moneromooo> That was on zcash's github if you want to search for it.
01:00:20 <moneromooo> Ethereum people should have good input on PoS, they're either PoS or are planning to switch to it.
03:33:19 <angrymonkeyboi[m> <donkeydonkey[m] "yep. thats what im working on"> What merchant adoption are you working on?
03:36:29 <donkeydonkey[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "What merchant adoption are you w"> a couple ways. working on informing the biz in the legal canna industry bout monero as a working option for them as they struggle with "banking" in many ways. and working on coding solutions for payments and subscriptions.
03:37:57 <angrymonkeyboi[m> Ohh nice.
03:38:17 <angrymonkeyboi[m> is your payent and subscription solution going to be a business, or an opensource thing?
03:38:47 <angrymonkeyboi[m> I've also been looking into how to solve the subscription problem with monro (or any crypto)
03:38:51 <angrymonkeyboi[m> *monero
03:46:55 <lunarkitty> Can anyone recommend an exchange for xmr <-> btc/eth?
03:47:36 <donkeydonkey[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "is your payent and subscription ">  maybe both
03:48:09 <donkeydonkey[m]> <angrymonkeyboi[m "I've also been looking into how "> yeah we are working on providing a few high level business and banking tools for business
03:48:09 <angrymonkeyboi[m> <lunarkitty "Can anyone recommend an exchange"> I like changenow.io
03:50:40 <lunarkitty> looks nice, hard to find people talking about it though
03:51:04 <nioc> also kraken if kyc is ok
03:52:24 <lunarkitty> yeah I'm on the fence about kraken, it seems to be a really good one, and I have an acct, idk if I want the government to have easy access to my trading logs though
03:53:50 <nioc> I wouldn't say that they have easy access
03:53:58 <lunarkitty> is exodus any good? looks pretty slick as a wallet/exchange
03:54:19 <nioc> I believe they are a closed source wallet
03:54:33 <lunarkitty> well, that rules that out
03:54:36 <nioc> no idea which exchange they use
03:54:53 <nioc> there is also a small exchange, tradeogre
03:55:43 <lunarkitty> I just want to dabble with a little bit of day trading, and don't want to get in trouble for not reporting 1000 transactions amounting to probably very little net change
03:55:48 <nioc> no idea really about exodus
03:56:19 <nioc> but I would use a wallet that I have full control over
03:56:55 <lunarkitty> yeah
03:59:20 <lunarkitty> irritating signal to noise ratio when researching such things online
03:59:35 <lunarkitty> was simpler 5 years ago
04:10:56 <endor00[m]> lunarkitty: if you're looking for a wallet with built-in exchange features, I'd suggest Cake Wallet
04:14:01 <lunarkitty> I'll take a look at that
07:47:02 <mmxxx[m]> xmr.to is closing?
07:47:20 <ndorf> seems that way
07:47:30 <mmxxx[m]> :(
07:47:39 <mmxxx[m]> Wtf happened?
07:49:37 <ndorf> doubt anyone knows any more than you probably already read at https://xmr.to/blog/job-done
07:52:07 <ndorf> OTOH, atomic swaps are coming. so hopefully soon it won't matter
07:52:43 <mmxxx[m]> <ndorf "doubt anyone knows any more than"> Thanks. Sounds like external pressure...
07:53:14 <mycorrhizae[m]> Was this just atomic swap for xmr site?
07:53:39 <ndorf> xmr.to wasn't an atomic swap.
07:53:52 <ndorf> there are two groups working on XMR-BTC atomic swaps currently, and looks like they are both making good progress
07:54:16 <ndorf> once that's done you can swap XMR to/from BTC trustlessly and there is no one to exert "external pressure" on
07:54:27 <ndorf> gg governments
07:55:26 <mycorrhizae[m]> What was xmr.to again? Its familiar but I've been afk for years
07:55:41 <mycorrhizae[m]> Also which groups are working on this? I want to support
07:55:48 <ndorf> it was an instant XMR->BTC exchange. not atomic/trustless.
07:56:01 <mycorrhizae[m]> Ooooh gotcha
07:56:20 <mycorrhizae[m]> Strictly to btc or both ways
07:56:21 <ndorf> trustED, but not trustLESS
07:56:31 <ndorf> only xmr->btc for that one. atomic swaps will work both ways
07:56:39 <mycorrhizae[m]> Understood
07:57:01 <mycorrhizae[m]> Whosbworking in swaps?
07:57:04 <ndorf> 1) https://github.com/comit-network/xmr-btc-swap 2) https://github.com/h4sh3d/xmr-btc-atomic-swap
07:57:17 <mycorrhizae[m]> * Whos working in swaps?
07:57:21 <ndorf> ^
07:57:30 <mycorrhizae[m]> Cool big thank
07:58:05 <ndorf> the comit group posted this update just a couple weeks ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/kwbzrh/xmrbtc_on_stagenet_update_by_comit/
08:22:59 <kayabaNerve_> ndorf: Mind uploading that without a region blocker? As in, to pastebin or similar
08:23:20 <kayabaNerve_> ... wait, isn't pastebin disliked? What's used nowadays? hastebin or debian paste?
08:24:34 <kayabaNerve_> And I'd disqagree with your list :P h4sh3d published the protocol, yet development has moved to Farcaster with a variety of individuals. Not too much benefit linking that repo.
08:24:54 <kayabaNerve_> https://github.com/farcaster-project/ for reference.
08:43:04 <synaps3> 0bin
09:05:45 <ndorf> kayabaNerve_: yes you are right, that's the one i should have linked
09:53:36 <mmxxx[m]> <kayabaNerve_ "... wait, isn't pastebin dislike"> https://bin.privacytools.io/
09:54:36 <raecarruth> synaps3: never heard of 0bin before, looks interesting
09:54:37 <raecarruth> thanks
09:54:52 <synaps3> np
10:25:03 <enjin[m]> Robin hood was a hero though..
10:26:38 <ErCiccione[m]> sethsimmons i don't have mod powers here. the only one who has them here on matrix is charuto.
10:27:06 <enjin[m]> Any news on monero?
10:27:20 <enjin[m]> Where can I read it?
10:27:22 <raecarruth> xmr.to is no more :(
10:28:33 <Inge-> it was a good run
10:30:12 <mmxxx[m]> it was
10:47:25 <ghost_matrix[m]> Rip xmr.to you where loved
10:48:19 <ghost_matrix[m]> I'm sick of seeing monero getting de listed its shit!
10:48:42 <sir_poppins[m]> R.I.P :*
10:48:47 <blaeks[m]> it's a short term pain for a long term gain, no worries
10:49:24 <ghost_matrix[m]> I just hate the excuses governments make.
10:49:25 <ghost_matrix[m]> Forcing these company's to delist
10:50:07 <ghost_matrix[m]> I'm not worried but it just makes it less accessible for regular people to obtain and trade.
10:50:33 <blaeks[m]> cool, help yourself if you want - de-listing (kicking, trying anything) the enemy sounds like natural response
10:51:11 <blaeks[m]>  * cool, help yourself if you want - de-listing (kicking, trying anything) the enemy sounds like a natural response
10:53:06 <ghost_matrix[m]> They there acting out of there primal scared government selves.
10:53:06 <ghost_matrix[m]> Delisting is just cringe.
11:08:29 <ghost_matrix[m]> <blaeks[m] "it's a short term pain for a lon"> Very true
11:14:58 * blaeks[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/DJkFbvKMnmzwySDbPgBtWqfG/message.txt >
11:16:56 * blaeks[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/yEGiWbjcngockhuSadktpspm/message.txt >
11:31:13 <dEBRUYNE> ghost_matrix[m]: xmr.to isn't really a delisting
11:31:33 <dEBRUYNE> They made a conscious choice to not sacrifice their core beliefs in order to continue
11:36:00 <mmxxx[m]> they were asked to kyc?
11:41:28 <averagejerry321[> it normal to have a hardware wallet take a long time to sync with a local node?
11:48:40 <moneromooo> If it's set up to not export the view key, yes.
11:53:11 <averagejerry321[> how do i setup?
11:58:03 <moneromooo> Dunno. Check the docs ?
11:59:10 <selsta> averagejerry321[: which HW wallet do you use?
12:08:47 <averagejerry321[> monero gui
12:08:56 <averagejerry321[> selsta:
12:09:17 <moneromooo> Ledger or Trezor ?
12:09:41 <averagejerry321[> what fo you mean?
12:09:46 <averagejerry321[> do*
12:11:50 <moneromooo> What is the company making the hardware wallet you use ?
12:14:39 <averagejerry321[> i'm using my computer
12:15:25 <averagejerry321[> the hd has the wallet
13:00:17 <supus> .isup xmr.wine
13:01:10 <supus> anyone here know what happened to it?
13:01:29 <supus> need some sweet 2014 barolo
13:02:44 <vdo[m]> sold out?
13:03:32 <supus> would surprise me. Last time I checked there were still ~30 bottles available
13:03:50 <supus> but maybe there is a barolo whale out there now ...
13:04:24 <tficharmers> They said that when the 2014 vintage sold out, they had the 2015 vintage.
13:05:49 <selsta> infinitejest-: ^^
14:27:21 <endor00[m]> <supus "need some sweet 2014 barolo"> https://www.wine.com/search/barolo%202014/0
14:28:25 <endor00[m]> Holy shit those prices are inflated though
14:58:19 <donkeydonkey[m]> .krak
15:54:11 <infinitejest-> hi supus, some 2014 bottles are still available. send me a PM if you have any questions
15:54:21 <infinitejest-> thanks selsta
17:19:08 <supus> cool thanks
18:20:06 <ForeverNoob[m]> hi, so suppose I'm running the AppImage. What's the best method of updating, just download the latest AppImage from https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/ ?
18:24:03 <selsta> ForeverNoob[m]: GUI has a built in updater
18:24:25 <selsta> that downloads the new version and verifies it
18:24:31 <selsta> you still have to extract it yourself
18:25:08 <ForeverNoob[m]> oh, that's pretty nifty, but that obviously entails running the old version first (which means more risk than downloading and verifying first), right?
18:27:47 <selsta> you usually have downloaded and verified the old version at some point so I don’t think it is risky
18:28:42 <ForeverNoob[m]> yeah that's true but I meant if there's an exploit in one of the versions that has been patched in the newer ones
18:32:37 <ForeverNoob[m]> `monero-wallet-gui: Libgcrypt warning: missing initialization - please fix the application` uh... is this bad?
18:33:36 <selsta> xiphon: ^
18:34:25 <selsta> ForeverNoob[m]: how did you install monero gui currently?
18:34:31 <selsta> getmonero.org version or package manager?
18:34:48 <xiphon> "Libgcrypt warning: missing initialization - please fix the application` uh... is this bad?" -> thanks, will have a look
18:35:06 <ForeverNoob[m]> getmonero version, just downloaded it, verified hash, extracted and then did `./monero-wallet-gui.AppImage`
18:36:05 <ForeverNoob[m]> IIRC Libgcrypt had a vulnerability exposed recently.
18:39:57 <ForeverNoob[m]> it seems I'm getting a lot of `E !r. THROW EXCEPTION: tools::error::no_connection_to_daemon` and `pull_blocks failed, try_count=3` and `daemonBlockChainHeight: Failed to connect to daemon`
18:40:38 <ForeverNoob[m]> should I continue let it running or is it best if I stop the app?
18:41:13 <selsta> ForeverNoob[m]: are you using simple mode?
18:41:46 <ForeverNoob[m]> yeah I think it's the default send & receive mode right?
18:42:12 <selsta> you can check inside Settings -> Info the wallet mode
18:42:51 <selsta> someone setup a lot of bad public nodes so the messages you are seeing are from that, it should be fine if you wait long enough
18:42:56 <selsta> we will address that in the next release
18:43:20 <selsta> if you connect to a bad public node it will fail and search a new one
18:43:32 <donkeydonkey[m]> rad
18:44:30 <ForeverNoob[m]> yes, simple mode. How large is the XMR chain? Perhaps I can spare some storage otherwise.
18:44:41 <selsta> 30GB pruned, 100GB unpruned
18:45:03 <ForeverNoob[m]> oof, that's a bit more than I can spare :(
18:46:52 <selsta> you can also connect to public node manually: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-gui/issues/3140#issuecomment-706440354
18:47:08 <selsta> I would do that if you have issues with simple mode, if things are working ok it is not necessary
18:58:25 <ForeverNoob[m]> thanks, I'll try that.
19:21:24 <sysadmin> I want to believe in pi because it is associated with Stanford
19:22:18 <gingeropolous> ForeverNoob[m], how much disc space can you spare?
19:22:27 <gingeropolous> disk
19:22:56 <ForeverNoob[m]> under 10g (I'm saving up for a NAS though)
19:23:42 <gingeropolous> hrm... i wonder if its feasible to do anything with the blockchain database to get it under 10 gb
19:24:12 <gingeropolous> afaiu, pruning the 1/8th or whatever is already the lowest it can get
19:25:47 <ForeverNoob[m]> yeah I don't expect to host many chains this way hehe, but I definitely understand.
19:27:28 <ForeverNoob[m]> wtf? xmr.to has shut down??
19:29:02 <mycorrhizae[m]> Yes
19:30:46 <ForeverNoob[m]> that is very very sad news, what are some good alternatives?
19:31:21 <donkeydonkey[m]> tradeogre
19:34:06 <ForeverNoob[m]> k, thanks.
19:36:40 <manifest> i wonder who they pissed off
19:36:43 <manifest> which agency
19:37:18 <sethsimmons> They said someone requested they block all Tor access and they didn't want to do that so they shut down instead.
19:38:02 <ForeverNoob[m]> coudln't they just... switched to a different host then? :S
19:38:15 <sethsimmons> What do you mean?
19:38:19 <sethsimmons> They hosted it all themselves.
19:38:47 <sethsimmons> I would assume it was LE or some gov body that requested it.
19:39:03 <sethsimmons> And they relied on normal exchanges for liquidity, so they can't just "go dark" or something.
19:39:13 <sethsimmons> Atomic swaps are the future for that type of exchange.
19:40:44 <ForeverNoob[m]> oh I thought it was some hosting provider that asked them that
19:41:03 <mycorrhizae[m]> Lol I just read about wownero
19:41:14 <mycorrhizae[m]> Jeez I wish I'd been keeping up with all this stuff
19:42:29 <ForeverNoob[m]> lmao this is what Doge should have been
19:44:29 <mycorrhizae[m]> Do you guys think a 3k laptop is really a good investment for crypto? Like I dont game much, I like learning finance, econ and, tech tho
19:44:42 <mycorrhizae[m]> But also retarded so
19:45:03 <sethsimmons> Probably highly unnecessary -- laptops aren't good for mining if that's an interest, and cheaper laptops are great on Linux.
19:45:07 <manifest> sounds like you don't need a 3k laptop
19:45:11 <sethsimmons> But depends on your needs for sure.
19:45:20 <jwinterm[m]> 3k expensive af
19:45:34 <mycorrhizae[m]> Only asking specifically regarding previous mentions
19:45:42 <Inge-> 1xmr laptop doesn't sound THAT bad
19:46:06 <manifest> also true, you need to have a fairly specific need or workload to actually NEED a 3k dollar laptop
19:46:08 <mycorrhizae[m]> Lol
19:46:34 <mycorrhizae[m]> Like I was thinking it's better to go tower with mining
19:46:34 <jwinterm[m]> Yea, you can get laptop with 2 TB ssd for under 1500 probably
19:47:21 <mycorrhizae[m]> I never got my foot in the door on mining but I was keeping an eye out and invested where interested stuff happened. Now I can use it to try
19:54:18 <mycorrhizae[m]> Ssd is preferable to sshd for mining right
19:56:35 <manifest> for everything really except price methinks
19:56:41 <manifest> and capacity sure
20:32:06 <KnifeOfPi_> good afternoo
20:32:07 <KnifeOfPi_> n
20:56:07 <gingeropolous> Hello good sir
20:56:26 <gingeropolous> or madam. or entity.
20:58:38 <KnifeOfPi_> lol
21:02:00 <hyc> On the internet no one can tell that you're spinach
21:17:23 <Inge-> woof
21:55:34 <angrymonkeyboi[m> I've decided to open a monero only store serving customers in MX, USA & CA. What kinds of products are you all interested in buying with monero?
21:55:44 <angrymonkeyboi[m> I hope this is the right place to ask
21:55:58 <Inge-> I live on the wrong continent :(
21:57:06 <angrymonkeyboi[m> <Inge- "I live on the wrong continent :("> It's okay, nobody is perfect. But if you were in North America, what would you like to buy?
21:57:29 <Inge-> elections
21:58:03 <terrasapien> you answered too fast for that to be a joke Inge-
21:58:59 <Inge-> I call 'em like I see 'em
22:02:58 <mycorrhizae[m]> <Inge- "I call 'em like I see 'em"> Brutally honest
22:44:27 <dEBRUYNE> angrymonkeyboi[m: You probably get more responses by opening a thread on r/monero
22:45:00 <angrymonkeyboi[m> Thanks, I'll make a post there
22:50:14 <mycorrhizae[m]> How are your guys' experiences w/ local monero cash exchanges