00:40:04 <slighty_toasted>  /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER slighty_toasted nqhgwdsogxfh
00:41:27 <jess> dont worry about fucking up sending that, it's not a password or a secret token
00:41:39 <jess> it's a one time use string for email verification. happens to the best of us
00:42:05 <slighty_toasted> I guess copy/pasting it doesnt activate the /msg command
00:42:18 <jess> it does, but you copied a space before the /
00:42:26 <slighty_toasted> aha
00:42:32 <jess> easily done
00:47:14 <mark_bleep[m]> I'd like to run a full node, I assume that means a full 75gb download
00:48:09 <slighty_toasted> 95GB as of right now
00:49:30 <slighty_toasted> Does a service similar to torservers.net exist but for monero nodes?
00:50:24 <slighty_toasted> With the influx of people wanting to set up VPS nodes but not being technically capable of doing so I think it's a great idea
00:51:11 <nioc> mark_bleep[m]: you can also run a pruned node which is about 35GB now
00:51:33 <mark_bleep[m]> <slighty_toasted "95GB as of right now"> K. Thx. Is there somewhere that tracks size and growth rate of these ledgers?  Would be interesting to compile if not.
00:52:29 <mark_bleep[m]> <slighty_toasted "With the influx of people wantin"> Agreed.
00:53:04 <slighty_toasted> mark_bleep[m] I'm not aware of any services providing that information accurately
00:53:07 <mark_bleep[m]> <nioc "mark_bleep: you can also run a p"> What's the difference? Can it still process transactions?
00:53:37 <nioc> yes you can
00:54:05 <slighty_toasted> mark_bleep[m] 1/3 the blockchain size, 1/8 the network contribution, 100% same functionality as full node.
00:54:08 <mark_bleep[m]> So, what's the point of a full node beyond archive?
00:54:24 <nioc> if you do go that way sync pruned to start, not aftaer syncing the whole chain
00:54:30 <mark_bleep[m]> <slighty_toasted "mark_bleep 1/3 the blockchain si"> Ah, ok. 1/8 contribution is the difference
00:55:38 <nioc> I run a full node cause it's only 95GB
00:56:11 <mark_bleep[m]> Size is meaningless given storage cost, but getting a new node online seems like it should be a focus is it's going to be a real primary monetary tool.
00:56:25 <nioc> also HDD is slow to initially sync vs an SSD
00:57:07 <nioc> takes the same amount of time to do an initial sync for full or pruned node
00:57:59 <selsta> "1/8 contribution is the difference" <-- 1/8th of some historical data, but it fully contributes propagating transactions and blocks
00:58:01 <nioc> I believe it still needs to verify all the blocks
01:39:27 <donkeydonkey[m]> 8 is running good so far no block list. Height: 2263929/2263929 (100.0%) on mainnet, not mining, net hash 1.84 GH/s, v14, 12(out)+34(in) connections, uptime 0d 2h 15m 15s
04:38:15 <camalonso> is block.txt anymore updated since there is now the enable-dns-blocklist?
04:38:50 <selsta> yes, I will keep updating it
07:07:27 <Kronovestan> looks like the "bad actors" nodes are stuck at 2263960 lol!
07:07:37 <Kronovestan> block height that is
07:20:58 <nioc> Both 2263960 and 2263958
07:28:57 <Kronovestan> Well that's great news seeing that they are not functioning.
08:12:02 <p0nziph0ne> selsta: enable dns blocklist is using your online txt as source and no need to update any file locally?
08:12:08 <ackroydai> why are these people doing this?
09:34:53 <zhunodxn> jess: I can tell you why you can't stop the 'spam'. You are thinking in cult doctrine. If it was real spam, and I was selling Viagra for example - you could easily ban keywords and urls. Instead, stop being a sheep, think like a cult leader. Recoginse that this 'spam' is just some bullshit that you tell to the sheep.
10:12:04 <ackdroid> what an idiot well-kicked ™️
10:14:52 <mark_bleep[m]> <zhunodxn "jess: I can tell you why you can"> I don't understand this
10:15:05 <selsta> mark_bleep[m]: ignore
10:15:47 <selsta> 09:12 <p0nziph0ne> selsta: enable dns blocklist is using your online txt as source and no need to update any file locally? <-- correct
10:46:08 <fhvusxzlg> Will you HODL XMR or sell it to buy Tari when it comes out?
10:46:32 <ComplyLast>  sell of course
10:46:43 <ComplyLast> is that even an honest question?
10:46:46 <Inge-> idiot.
10:50:09 <binaryFate> we demand better trolls
10:50:47 <ComplyLast> actually there's a telegram OTC brokerage selling Tari IOUs. Maybe I should hook fireice with a contact over there, he seems very interested
10:51:14 <ComplyLast> I have my fair share with NFT stuff with Btc already, but... whatever floats your boat.
10:52:08 <raecarruth> wtf is tari
10:52:25 <raecarruth> and of course there's somebody on telegram shilling it...
10:53:48 <Mochi101> hehehe
11:51:10 <fluffypony> raecarruth: Monero merge-mined sidechain focused on digital assets
11:51:33 <raecarruth> ok
12:10:46 <Inge-> It is ... not really comparable to private p2p money
13:48:18 <nobody[m]> Howdy.
13:48:29 <M5M400> howdy
14:02:00 <nobody[m]> whatever happened to xmr being on binance?
14:04:37 <Mochi101> it still is
14:05:36 <nobody[m]> not for americans :v
14:05:59 <Mochi101> https://www.binance.com/en/trade/XMR_BTC
14:06:17 <nobody[m]> yeah, binance.us has no such option, though
14:06:31 <nobody[m]> wild. oh well, i'll switch to kraken.
14:06:31 <Mochi101> really
14:18:18 <elchupacabra420[> If dex delists xmr further thats could be problematic? Cause localmonero users force you to ID too and noone wants to give that info to some random guy on the net
14:18:52 <Minimons> Hello! My GUI wallet is convinced that I have my keyfile already opened (Couldn't open wallet: internal error: "..." is opened by another wallet program). (Linux 0.17.1.8). Anybody know how to get passed that?
14:19:39 <selsta> Restarting your computer might work.
14:20:23 <Minimons> salsta: I am on a Linux system.
14:21:08 <rupee> the former Head of XRP Institutional Liquidity for Ripple is the current CEO of binance.us. That might have something to do with XMR not being supported.
14:21:37 <rupee> they really liked to trace where their XRP went
14:23:30 <gingeropolous> rupee, hah!
14:28:50 <Minimons> Anybody know how the UI keeps track of locked wallet files? There are no active processes and I do not see any .locked files are anything that would suggest that the wallet is locked. Ofcause I would look through the source but I am just feeling lazy. ;-)
14:28:57 <ayahuaza> elchupacabra420[ yeah, that's why atomic swaps will help in this situation a lot
14:29:24 <ayahuaza> but I don't think DEX can delist monero, because it's decentralized tho;D
14:31:14 <dEBRUYNE> nobody[m]: XMR never used to be on Binance US
14:31:34 <dEBRUYNE> Minimons: A reboot is still advisable
14:41:36 <Lyza> <Minimons> the fact that the error does not appear until after you enter your password, makes me suspect the information is stored in the wallet cache somehow. but yeah I'd reboot before getting all crazy with the wallet cache
14:42:48 <alphed-> Hi
14:42:56 <alphed-> I’m from the government and I’m here to help
14:45:05 <elchupacabra420[> Must be you're first time then.
14:45:39 <elchupacabra420[> never remembered a helpful gov.
14:46:17 <sech1> They want to help you part with your money
14:50:46 <alphed-> It's for your safety
14:53:27 <elchupacabra420[> :)
14:57:50 <onf> hey guys, what's the difference between DCC CHAT and MSG? my understanding is that DCC CHAT is unencrypted and directly between the two participants while CHAT goes through the server and is encrypted if TLS is used, correct?
14:58:24 <Minimons> Lyza - I talked with dEBRUYNE about it. The problem is that the UI misunderstands a 'permission denied' for 'file is open by another process'. Fixing the permissions makes it work again but it misleads the user. I promissed to create an issue on github (when I get sober again) ;-)
14:58:45 <onf> oh fuck, wrong channel
14:59:10 <Minimons> The fix for the '2 blocks remaining' in .8 works GREAT. Thanks my HEROs for that update!
14:59:10 <rupee> f9ad5567e6e1e4a88213190cbde6d974265640438e9f2de41ce0d4839cb021f4  monero-gui-mac-x64-v0.17.1.8.dmg
14:59:20 <rupee> that hash doesn't match getmonero.org
15:00:03 <rupee> it matches this one: https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/hashes.txt
15:00:25 <rupee> but not the Verify Hashes part of this page https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/#gui
15:01:20 <dEBRUYNE> Check if it's not an old release that is displayed
15:01:34 <selsta> looks ok here
15:02:09 <rupee> after refreshing the page it matches
15:02:15 <rupee> maybe I had the tab open a while
15:02:28 <rupee> thanks for double checking
15:03:11 <selsta> maybe some caching
15:03:30 <Kronovestan> rupee, I've had that issue too. I always open the download page in an incognito browser window to prevent that now.
15:12:57 <monerouser1144> selsta possibly bad IP 64.225.123.149 (stuck at same block 2263960 for am long time "sychronizing")
15:13:07 <ayahuaza> so monero mining is best with CPU not GPU right?
15:16:39 <selsta> monerouser1144: added
15:18:22 <nioc> ayahuaza: correct
15:21:19 <jess> what hash algo does monero use
15:21:30 <jess> i hope it's something pog like scrypt
15:23:08 <moneromooo> For PoW ? Custom one called randomx. Otherwise mostly keccak (pre-standard AES).
15:23:08 <ayahuaza> RandomX?
15:23:26 <moneromooo> er, pre standard SHA3.
15:23:27 <ayahuaza> same timing :D
15:23:38 <jess> interesting
15:25:14 <moneromooo> It exploits strengths of current microprocessors to keep ASICs from being so much more dominant. It's slow to verify though, which is a very annoying drawback.
15:34:07 <monerouser1144> Following up yesterday's thoughts about creating resilient monero public nodes, has anyone worked on an AppArmor profile for monerod yet? (note: AppArmor is like SELinux, and can be used to prevent an exploit to a daemon from escalating).
15:37:23 <azy> my updated node went down. how can i find out why? ~/.bitmonero/bitmonero.conf didn't display anything
15:37:43 <selsta> more attacks
15:37:51 <selsta> different one this time
15:38:12 <ayahuaza> what's up with that CipherTrace monero transaction tracing tool?
15:38:30 <onf> monerouser1144: it's on my list of TODO (with lots of other time consuming things)...
15:39:51 <ayahuaza> or was it just to scare people?
15:40:45 <nioc> it's to make money
15:40:55 <onf> ayahuaza: mostly big talk, they could be able to trace some old tx as monero was lacking in some areas back then, but they can only guess when it comes to newer tx
15:41:02 <nioc> without any real capabilities
15:42:03 <ackdroid> I have been connecting to moneroworld node without incident for cli wallet
15:42:04 <ayahuaza> fair enuf
15:53:12 <ayahuaza> what's the best way one could provide strength to monero network, by running a full node?
15:53:36 <SerHack> ayahuaza: yes!
15:57:34 <ayahuaza> SerHack to running public full node + Tor or i2p? is safest bet?
15:59:56 <monerouser1144> Has anyone tried running HAproxy in front of monerod ? http://cbonte.github.io/haproxy-dconv/2.4/intro.html#3
16:31:03 <_I3^RELATIVISM> its a shame anonimal stop developing kovri because of all the monero people nonsense
16:31:29 <_I3^RELATIVISM> garlic routing inside onion routing is a interesting concept
16:31:51 <selsta> he decided to stop developing kovri because he wanted to work on other things
16:31:56 <selsta> not because monero people wanted it stopped?
16:32:40 <_I3^RELATIVISM> not really the backlash from some usuless pwoplw was the incentive for him to stop
16:32:56 <_I3^RELATIVISM> not because he "wanted"
16:32:59 <_I3^RELATIVISM> selsta:
16:33:07 <raecarruth> it isn't because nobody uses i2p...
16:33:12 <onf> wasn't kovri just different implementation of i2p?
16:33:19 <_I3^RELATIVISM> no onf
16:33:30 <_I3^RELATIVISM> I2P is garlic routing
16:33:41 <jess> why is it called garlic
16:33:45 <_I3^RELATIVISM> kovri was garlic routing inside onion routing
16:33:45 <moneromooo> A different router, for the same protocol (mostly).
16:33:47 <jess> garlic doesn't have layers like an onion does
16:33:53 <_I3^RELATIVISM> which is what tor uses
16:34:03 <_I3^RELATIVISM> moneromooo: not really
16:34:12 <_I3^RELATIVISM> they are 2 diferent concepts
16:34:29 <_I3^RELATIVISM> garlic routing you bundle packets in a clove
16:34:47 <_I3^RELATIVISM> so you encrypt bundle packets toghether
16:34:53 <ayahuaza> i know i2p is faster than tor, but is it safer?
16:34:54 <_I3^RELATIVISM> so no packet can be targeted
16:35:11 <_I3^RELATIVISM> while in onion routing(akator)
16:35:26 <moneromooo> I2P and kovri are both not tor...
16:35:35 <onf> ayahuaza: it's not faster, but it's decentralized unlike tor
16:35:40 <_I3^RELATIVISM> you just encrypt each packet seperate protected by encryption layer
16:35:46 <onf> ayahuaza: which actually leads to it being slower
16:35:56 <ayahuaza> oowh okay, well then someone lied to me on the net
16:36:01 <ayahuaza> ty onf
16:36:06 <_I3^RELATIVISM> onf: both are decentrlized
16:36:16 <_I3^RELATIVISM> ayahuaza:
16:36:36 <onf> _I3^RELATIVISM: not really, in tor there are centralized authorities afaik
16:36:40 <ayahuaza> but I heard of exploits when running exit node
16:36:42 <_I3^RELATIVISM> the only deiferenced is oe uses garlic routing while another uses onion routing
16:36:52 <ayahuaza> on TOR
16:36:57 <_I3^RELATIVISM> onf: that is not truth
16:37:14 <moneromooo> Directory auths are semi centralized.
16:37:30 <moneromooo> Wait. I'm getting pulled in. Mistake :D
16:37:33 <onf> _I3^RELATIVISM: aha, so why does anonimal list it as one of the two issues with tor in kovri proposal?
16:38:05 <moneromooo> (kinda like seed nodes in monero, actually)
16:38:25 <raecarruth> centralized authorities in tor? o_0
16:38:28 <raecarruth> since when?
16:39:23 <_I3^RELATIVISM> ^^ "KOVRI was garlic routing inside onion routing. They are 2 different concepts. Garlic routing, you bundle packets in a clove so you encrypt bundled packets together so no packet can be targeted. While in onion routing (akaTOR) you just encrypt each packet separate protected by encryption layers."
16:40:34 <selsta> do you mean https://gitlab.com/sekreta/sekreta/ ?
16:40:40 <selsta> because Kovri is based on the I2P spec
16:40:49 <_I3^RELATIVISM> its called garlic given the structure of a gralic with cloves and onion given the onion layers
16:41:23 <_I3^RELATIVISM> selsta: exactly kovri is based of I2Pd but it is not just that
16:41:40 <_I3^RELATIVISM> it uses TOR like onion routing inside each clove
16:42:07 <_I3^RELATIVISM> so being "based of" is not the same thing as being "equal to" selsta
16:42:53 <_I3^RELATIVISM> that is why it is a fork of it
16:43:07 <_I3^RELATIVISM> if not one would just use I2Pd
16:44:23 <_I3^RELATIVISM> trully a shame, hopefully one day project gets restarted, preferebly outside monero, so the same thing doesnt happend again.
16:44:34 <onf> ayahuaza: well either way, there are several core differences between tor and i2p in how the network works: 1. in tor, volunteers run nodes that route traffic, in i2p everyone routes traffic by default (this leads to strong decentralization, but also slow users can (and do) bottleneck the network's speed) 2. tor was primarily built as a way to anonymize connections to clearnet with exit nodes being
16:44:34 <_I3^RELATIVISM> anyway Cheers.
16:44:40 <onf> significant part of the design, while in i2p the so called outproxies to the clearnet are ad-hoc services similar to tor gateways on the clearnet
16:45:31 <_I3^RELATIVISM> agreed
16:46:13 <_I3^RELATIVISM> is anybody else here interested in restarting such project btw?
16:47:55 <moneromooo> It sounds interesting, but I have neither the time nor domain knowledge.
16:48:15 <moneromooo> If it does get mostly finished, I could help plugging it in though.
16:53:37 <h2017> hi
16:54:09 <h2017> the attacker must have come up with a new attack. my node with no blocklist has ohnly been up for 6 minutes
16:54:27 <moneromooo> Yes, they did.
16:54:57 <h2017> is there anything i can do to help?
16:55:07 <moneromooo> I don't think so.
16:55:26 <moneromooo> 7243 might be enough to fix. Otherwise a second patchj will get in when a dep is merged first.
16:56:18 <h2017> ok i'll run with --enable-dns-blocklist and see what happens when the new release comes out
16:56:30 <selsta> dns blocklist does not block tor currently
16:57:07 <h2017> in that case i'll just use the banlist
17:00:29 <monerouser1144> fwiw I use monerod with selsta's smaller block.txt (187 IPs) & --enable-dns-blocklist . And at the system level I use iptables+ipset that blocks all tor exit nodes (1745 IPs). Works fine and never had a problem during the past month.
17:00:32 <moneromooo> h2017: actually, somthing you can do to help:
17:01:19 <moneromooo> Merge 7228, then 7244, then https://paste.debian.net/hidden/cdd5ded0/ and see if you get any more trouble.
17:02:04 <h2017> i'll look it into. no promises. i'm not that familiar with git
17:02:39 <marmulak> pray you never have to be
17:04:12 <moneromooo> And pray you never have to be familiar with anything useful either.
17:06:19 <marmulak> I admit it is kinda useful
17:06:32 <marmulak> HAPPY NEW YEAR
17:07:51 <onf> marmulak: seems kinda early
17:08:19 <marmulak> not in Australia!
17:08:26 <onf> oh :D
17:08:30 <onf> happy new year then :)
17:08:42 <marmulak> and soon the rest of the world
17:10:49 <ayahuaza> yeah happy new year all, may you all be equanimous
17:12:02 <ayahuaza> "The I2P network does not officially "Exit" traffic. It has outproxies to the Internet run by volunteers, which are centralized services. I2P is primarily a hidden service network and outproxying is not an official function, nor is it advised. The privacy benefits you get from participating in the the I2P network come from remaining in the network and not accessing the internet. I2P recommends that you use Tor Browser or a trusted VPN when you
17:12:02 <ayahuaza> want to browse the Internet privately."
17:12:24 <onf> That's what I said
17:12:42 <ayahuaza> indeed, thanks onf
17:13:58 <onf> np
17:14:09 <ackdroid> Kinda like a p2p bulletinBoard?
17:14:13 <sethsimmons> Put together a (hopefully) simple guide to installing monerod as a systemd service on any Ubuntu/Debian box: https://sethsimmons.me/guides/run-a-monero-node/
17:14:13 <sethsimmons> Would love any feedback you all may have before I share it more widely.
17:14:54 <gingeropolous> damn. someone posted a systemd thing to help with the memory exhaustion
17:14:58 <gingeropolous> anyone remember where / who it was?
17:15:42 <sethsimmons> https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html#LimitCPU=
17:15:50 <sethsimmons> https://serverfault.com/questions/772301/how-to-limit-memory-for-a-service-managed-by-systemd
17:16:07 <gingeropolous> it was like memory accounting or something
17:16:11 <sethsimmons> It wouldn't help, per se, but would reboot the node if it hit that limit
17:16:35 <gingeropolous> goddamnit reddits search is useless. pretty sure it was reddit
17:16:58 <sethsimmons> It was here IIRC, just not sure which channel/who it was
17:19:10 <gingeropolous> ah sweet. i can grep logs. thanks
17:31:41 <selsta> anyone running without ban list and can say if the attack is still ongoing?
17:31:57 <sethsimmons> I am running with DNSBL and no issues so far.
17:32:34 <selsta> might be because you have enough RAM
17:32:38 <selsta> to survive the attack
17:33:04 <moneromooo> Still ongoing, logs show I got one 3 minutes ago.
17:33:06 <sethsimmons> Possible, but I haven’t seen any undue usage.
17:33:40 <moneromooo> Actually, 3 mins ago, 4 mins ago, 4 mins ago. Busy.
17:34:06 * sethsimmons uploaded an image: ima_b46a068.jpeg (219KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/SmgEvnGmStisLsHDlkirGBRH/ima_b46a068.jpeg >
17:34:17 <sethsimmons> The major RAM usage drop-off was me restarting for a config change.
17:35:47 <ackdroid> Not sure if this is worth a look - https://github.com/konstruktoid/ansible-role-hardening
17:36:06 <M5M400> haven't seen anything ram dropping in the past 6h selsta
17:36:10 <ErCiccione[m]> selsta:  I' m running a node without ban list. Attack seeems to be ongoing
17:36:28 <selsta> M5M400: they use tor
17:37:03 <M5M400> ye. I iptabled off a good chunk of exit nodes
17:37:52 <ErCiccione[m]> had very big ram usage, one last spike gave it the final blow
17:38:11 <ErCiccione[m]> Almost resynced again, let's see what happens
17:38:48 <monerouser1144> ackdroid those hardening rules are for a generic server, I think we need to tailor them to a monero node.
17:38:56 <M5M400> been pretty quiet since yesterday https://i.imgur.com/zDHQqVB.png
17:40:10 <monerouser1144> My monerod is at ~500MB RES, 43.1GB VIRT
17:41:59 <slipcritical[m]> Supernoob here curious about crypto. Can anyone explain how Monero is more private than btc when all crypto transactions need to pass through 'know your customer' institutions anyway to convert to and from fiat? It seems that all crypto is non-private in the end.
17:43:59 <nioc> with btc you know what address a tx was sent from, what address it was sent to, how much the tx was for and how much change went back to you
17:44:15 <nioc> with monero none of that info is public
17:44:52 <Kronovestan> M5M400, can you explain how you got monerod to sync fast? I swear I had seen you had a way to sync faster a few weeks back?
17:45:26 <slipcritical[m]> thanks, nioc. Makes sense.
17:47:14 <nioc> :)
17:48:15 <monerouser1144> sethsimmons I quickly glanced over your systemd scripts and one comment is that I'd create a separate monero user and put everything under /home/monero (instead of the default user)
17:49:12 <monerouser1144> PS: I'm referring to the instructions at https://sethsimmons.me/guides/run-a-monero-node/
17:49:48 <monerouser1144> Also, until an AppArmor profile is ready, one could use systemd to harden the daemon.
17:49:55 <M5M400> Kronovestan: just 1gbit, nvme and 128 in/out peers. and a bunch of other nodes in the same DC (hetzner)
17:50:19 <sethsimmons> <monerouser1144 "sethsimmons I quickly glanced ov"> Good idea, rather than leaving it as whatever user they get, which can be root.
17:50:23 <sethsimmons> Can standardize docs then too
17:50:28 <sethsimmons> I’ll make thoise changes!
17:51:54 <nobody[m]> slipcritical: realistically speaking, it's not incredibly difficult to obtain XMR without KYC
17:52:32 <monerouser1144> Well, I have to head back home for New Year's eve. Happy new year everyone, with health and happiness :-)
17:53:00 <nobody[m]> KYC is certainly a pain in the ass, but is so easy to get around that it's not an issue for most people.
17:54:12 <Kronovestan> M5M400, ah ok it's the peer number I'm missing.   What about syncing from a local node on the same network? like 10.0.0.2 syncing to 10.0.0.3? Just add priority node right? Would that be faster?
17:55:41 <nobody[m]> and even if you do opt in for a KYC exchange, the only information that's really collected is that you're buying and selling the coin - what you do while on the network is entirely anonymous. an apt metaphor would be that a survellience camera on your street can watch you go to and from your home every day, but doesn't know what you're upto when you're at said home.
17:55:49 <Kronovestan> Mining is KYC free :)
17:57:19 <nobody[m]> mining is something i don't understand well enough to explain.
17:57:19 <Quotes> But it's easy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJKdh1KZ0w
17:57:27 <nobody[m]> especially in regards to how it's profitable
17:57:32 <nobody[m]> considering the cost of power in the US
18:25:07 <h2017> moneromooo, i put the data-dir under /var/lib/monorod
18:26:09 <h2017> sorry meant for monerouser1144
18:37:22 <Kronovestan> nobody[m], that's the key to understand... you're "buying xmr" with your power bill when you mine. Now unless the power company does KYC .... lol
19:12:24 <elchupacabra420[> Despite youve some deeper electrian skills or house in Uruguay...
19:55:05 <Kronovestan> Monero can't be fully decentralized.. can it?
19:55:55 <endor00[m]> Define "fully decentralized"
19:56:40 <Kronovestan> the nodes where you first start your sync if you don't have any of the blockchain data
19:57:02 <onf> Kronovestan: the project as a whole definitely can't as it needs a centralized group of developers.
20:00:15 <endor00[m]> <Kronovestan "the nodes where you first start "> That's a common problem among all decentralized networks. I2P has the same issue.
20:01:44 <endor00[m]> So until someone figures out how to solve this bootstrapping problem, we need a few hardcoded nodes to act as an entry point to the network
20:02:18 <moneromooo> The seed nodes are semi centralised. They're run by various people. I run one.
20:02:44 <moneromooo> They do not have particular powers others don't have though, and you dont have to use them, you can use --add-exclusive-node IPHERE.
20:02:57 <moneromooo> Then you'll get your first peer list from that node, then you can run normally.
20:17:27 <Kronovestan> moneromooo, ah gotcha... it works kind of like a bittorent
20:19:07 <agentpatience> something just crashed my new node!!
20:21:08 <agentpatience> it was runing for a couple days [killed]
20:21:33 <selsta> agentpatience: which block list are you using? also which version?
20:24:11 <agentpatience> i used the latest from yesterday it was like 24K in length if I recall
20:25:18 <agentpatience> https://ibb.co/9sbbz7X
20:25:50 <agentpatience> block_tor.txt
20:25:55 <selsta> please restart it again
20:26:18 <selsta> and wait until v0.17.1.9 is out
20:26:26 <selsta> you might also want to use https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block_tor_new.txt it includes more IPs
20:26:31 <ayahuaza> what do you guys think about pivx?
20:29:27 <ayahuaza> looks good on paper, but as I heard lots of design flaws
20:31:54 <agentpatience> selsta, can you please append ll the ip to just one file? It is hard to version track this stuff...
20:32:06 <agentpatience> *all
20:32:12 <selsta> https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block_tor_new.txt includes all IPs
20:32:34 <agentpatience> yea but you keep changing it how the hell is anyone on www supposed to know about this?
20:32:45 <agentpatience> you keep changing filename?
20:32:52 <selsta> I ask people to use https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block_tor.txt and if they still have issues to use https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block_tor_new.txt
20:33:03 <selsta> block_tor_new might contain a couple false positives
20:33:09 <agentpatience> keep it the same so we don't have to keep wondering what the next variant is?
20:34:06 <sethsimmons> calm down buddy
20:34:20 <selsta> it is confusing :P
20:34:22 <sethsimmons> Hes doing this for free on his own time
20:34:36 <selsta> block_tor_new is not a good name I agree
20:34:39 <agentpatience> some poor bastard that wants to try out monero trading doesn't know about any of this shit, and really its a goofy workaround. The block list file shouldn't change its ID it complicates things even more to the people that know about it.
20:34:52 <sethsimmons> then use the DNSBL
20:34:55 <sethsimmons> That wont change
20:35:03 <sethsimmons> —enable-dns-blocklist
20:35:07 <selsta> DNS does not contain Tor
20:35:47 <selsta> I would rather have some more crashes than a lot of legit nodes getting banned
20:35:52 <agentpatience> if you are going to release a new version at least but in the notes that you need to pull a certain block list to circumvent KILLS lol, ?
20:36:21 <selsta> it’s a different attack
20:36:30 <selsta> we can’t predict that lol
20:36:36 <_I3^RELATIVISM> contribute instead of complaining agentpatience
20:37:05 <_I3^RELATIVISM> and patience would help agentpatience
20:38:04 <_I3^RELATIVISM> sorry if you are offended but such types or demands are nor helpfull or productive
20:38:23 <_I3^RELATIVISM> Im not a active meber of monero though just my own opinion
20:42:14 <mark_bleep[m]> <sethsimmons "—enable-dns-blocklist"> Is this not a default for monerod? Mine keeps crashing I assume this would help a bit?
20:42:19 <agentpatience> I hear ya selsta. I don't mean to sound off
20:42:49 <sethsimmons> <mark_bleep[m] "Is this not a default for monero"> No, and it shouldnt ever be a default as its by definition centralized.
20:43:28 <selsta> mark_bleep[m]: --enable-dns-blocklist does not contain tor so your node will keep crashing
20:43:46 <mark_bleep[m]> <_I3^RELATIVISM "and patience would help agentpat"> Ironic.... Still I don't see demands more firm criticism which don't appear to be ignored so I think everyone's on the same page actually
20:43:50 <agentpatience> I am restarting the nodewith -enable-dns-blocklist but this is just testing right?
20:44:07 <selsta> you can download https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block_tor_new.txt and start with --ban-list /path/to/block_tor_new.txt
20:45:00 <mark_bleep[m]> <selsta "you can download https://gui.xmr"> Ok, so is it blocking just known tor exit nodes or known bad actors that happen to be all tor exit nodes
20:45:23 <selsta> just known tor exit nodes, once the attacks cool down I will recommend to remove this list again
20:45:58 <selsta> if you are familiar with compiling monero yourself you can also fix it that way
20:46:02 <mark_bleep[m]> Kk. Because that would explain my problem trying to sync a new node from tor? 😂
20:46:31 <selsta> possible :D
20:46:58 <agentpatience> ok, i started my node here with --enable-dns-blocklist however, i am uncertain if I need to pass other block lists?
20:47:05 <kinghat[m]> you guys have something for the next network upgrade? i thought i remember talk of it.
20:47:44 <sethsimmons> <kinghat[m] "you guys have something for the "> What do you mean?
20:47:59 <sethsimmons> <agentpatience "ok, i started my node here with "> That is basically the Tor-less version of selsta’s blocklist.
20:48:10 <sethsimmons> If you want to block Tor IPs you need to use his as well.
20:48:26 <agentpatience> oh ffs
20:48:34 <agentpatience> hes got 3 versions!
20:48:41 <agentpatience> do i pass all 3 lol
20:48:48 <agentpatience> actually maybe 4 now
20:48:48 <sethsimmons> no.
20:48:56 <sethsimmons> Maybe actually embody your name and slow down.
20:49:05 <sethsimmons> He’s explained it to you above.
20:49:07 <sethsimmons> Read the scrollback.
20:49:13 <selsta> like I said, https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block_tor_new.txt contains all IPs that you need
20:49:30 <selsta> with this list your node should stay online for multiple hours
20:49:32 <mark_bleep[m]> Can this app do pinning?
20:49:42 <kinghat[m]> i dont know, thats why im asking. i thought there was a protocol change or something that other p2p networks employ to make it harder to attack the network but needed a network upgrade and we are not doing one for a while 🤷‍♂️
20:49:46 <mark_bleep[m]> <mark_bleep[m] "Can this app do pinning?"> NVM doesn't look like it
20:49:46 <sethsimmons> mark_bleep: not sure.
20:50:10 <sethsimmons> <kinghat[m] "i dont know, thats why im asking"> The long-term fix for one of the attacks will be part of the next hard fork. A short term fix is in place and working properly.
20:50:15 <agentpatience> why can't he keep his blocklist to one file, i don't get it. Theres no harm done doing that and it centralizes the versioning.
20:50:26 <sethsimmons> Make your own list
20:50:32 <sethsimmons> If you want to merely complain about the work of others
20:50:36 <agentpatience> Thats not the answer.
20:50:40 <kinghat[m]> ya, whats the long term fix?
20:51:06 <sethsimmons> <kinghat[m] "ya, whats the long term fix?"> https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/7135
20:51:08 <kinghat[m]> i just dont remember what it was
20:51:10 <agentpatience> I'm here as a end user to file legitimate issues to developers of a project I use.
20:51:28 <sethsimmons> Then file an issue, whining about file names over and over isn’t helpful.
20:51:34 <sethsimmons> This is an unfortunate necessity short-term.
20:51:47 <onf> agentpatience: you as an end user should be grateful for the work of others and not complain about minor inconveniences
20:51:53 <sethsimmons> Not worth the time to make it the perfect UX when it won’t be needed long term.
20:52:01 <sethsimmons> These things are being doen FOR FREE FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT.
20:52:14 <sethsimmons> Feel free to give ideas on how to improve but whining helps no one.
20:52:22 <ackdroid> well said
20:52:31 <sethsimmons> selsta clearly explained how to use the block lists and what each does.
20:52:32 <mark_bleep[m]> Fwiw a simple, current string for deploying a node is almost, but not quite what people need. Given attacks and change I realize that isn't necessarily easy but if hash site is right and only 1200 or so full nodes are running globally then it's not much of a network until more are running.
20:52:36 <agentpatience> I just wanted to provide feedback here instead of opening tickets on github but if you prefer that then I will do so.
20:52:50 <sethsimmons> Not for this “issue”, as it’s a non-issue.
20:53:03 <sethsimmons> <mark_bleep[m] "Fwiw a simple, current string fo"> Yes, Ansible/Docker would be a great way to build a simple deployment tool for end-users.
20:53:07 <sethsimmons> If you have the experience go for it :)
20:53:35 <agentpatience> actually having multiple block lists to save a node really disturbs me deep down inside.
20:53:44 <selsta> agentpatience: https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block_simple.txt
20:53:56 <selsta> this list will always contain the block list you should use
20:53:58 <selsta> is that better?
20:54:00 <mark_bleep[m]> <sethsimmons "Yes, Ansible/Docker would be a g"> Ansible yes, docker... Ugh. Maybe.  The problem always arises in edge cases
20:54:14 <agentpatience> lmao, fuck off man with your varients
20:54:34 <selsta> I can make more variants :D
20:54:35 <sethsimmons> Dude, getfo of here.
20:55:02 <binaryFate> agentpatience: please be civil, especially when everyone is trying to help volunteering on new years eve
20:56:21 <agentpatience> I hear you. I recpect everyones advice and opnions here. I am duly noted.
20:57:11 <selsta> but I was serious, I will make sure that https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block_simple.txt always contains the list to use
20:57:13 <selsta> you can ignore all the others
20:57:20 <agentpatience> ok
20:57:25 <mark_bleep[m]> <selsta "this list will always contain th"> I think the issue he's having is at its core too abstract.
20:57:46 <agentpatience> Thanks for clearing that up, hopefully I won't hear about those others again I couldn't sleep for days
20:57:50 <selsta> always contains the list you should use until these attacks are over
20:58:03 <selsta> then no block list is necessary
20:58:12 <monerofanboy2> Would it be possible to put https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block_tor.txt in a secondary dns blocklist? It may improve the situation for complete monero noobs who only use the gui and have no idea how to add blocklists
20:58:33 * mark_bleep[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/zWyHiuSNMrfvCKsFxdtAgqNr/message.txt >
20:59:19 <mark_bleep[m]> <sethsimmons "Not for this “issue”, as it’s a "> > <@mark_bleep:matrix.org> I think the issue he's having is at its core too abstract.
20:59:39 <selsta> monerofanboy2: everything we add to the dns list will be blocked for 10 days
20:59:48 <binaryFate> A secondary dns blocklist would just be more confusing to newbs
21:00:00 <selsta> binaryFate: opinion on adding Tor exit nodes to DNS block list?
21:00:03 <selsta> or rather not
21:01:00 <monerofanboy2> "everything we add to the dns list will be blocked for 10 days" I get that, but the malicious tor exist nodes are not in the dns block list, right?
21:01:19 <selsta> no, we have to add all tor exit nodes
21:01:23 <binaryFate> Tricky one, because we're about to fix current attack, so 10 days will be longer than necessary
21:02:30 <selsta> though once people update the DNS list will reload anyway
21:02:48 <ackdroid> some of those onion nodes are suspected owned, prob not the attackers
21:02:58 <mark_bleep[m]> <binaryFate "Tricky one, because we're about "> Is ten days based on DNS TTL?
21:03:31 <selsta> afaik ten days once loaded in monerod
21:03:33 <binaryFate> it's based on the time at which you query and get the list afaik
21:04:21 <binaryFate> <selsta> though once people update the DNS list will reload anyway  <-- are you sure?
21:04:45 <selsta> restarting resets the bans
21:04:58 <mark_bleep[m]> <binaryFate "it's based on the time at which "> Right, but dns replicates based on a TTL value that can be modified for each record to be anywhere from 5m to two weeks (standard) and checks for updates halfway through
21:06:08 <binaryFate> I think the dns TTL is short, the 10 days is entirely internal to monerod
21:06:10 <mark_bleep[m]> I guess I could look up the TTL myself instead of asking.. it's a txt record, but I'll need to track down it's name
21:06:38 <binaryFate> selsta: ok then I would be on the cautious side and add tor nodes to dns list now, so that it helps user experience until next release
21:07:10 <mark_bleep[m]> <binaryFate "I think the dns TTL is short, th"> Ok, that's what I was wondering, because 10 days is a bit long for Dns expirey
21:08:35 <monerofanboy2> idk, I'm running 8 nodes currently. 7 with block_tor.txt and 1 with block.txt and the DNS blocklist on all 8. The 1 node not using the block_tor.txt appears from the logs to be crashing hourly.  The other 7 nodes appears to still be going strong.
21:09:45 <binaryFate> mark_bleep[m]: Check https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/7138 it's a fairly simple one to follow
21:10:18 <binaryFate> monerofanboy2: yes we know, there is a new attack. The fix is coming.
21:11:12 <agentpatience> +1 binaryFate
21:11:30 <p0nziph0ne> what a moron to pull this attack off in christmas and new year eves time
21:11:38 <selsta> mark_bleep[m]: dig -t txt blocklist.moneropulse.de
21:12:15 <mark_bleep[m]> > mark_bleep: dig -t txt blocklist.moneropulse.de
21:12:15 <mark_bleep[m]> Excellent, the dns server was what I needed. Tyvm
21:12:33 <monerofanboy2> it does not bother me personally in the least bit that 1 node keeps crashing, but I'm thinking of the those who know very little other than "help me, my stuff is broke and I'm angry because I have no idea what I am doing" ..... If we could switch the dns blocklist from "block" to "block_tor" it would help many of those confused people that have no
21:12:34 <monerofanboy2> idea why nothing is working.
21:13:22 <monerofanboy2> sorry for the double negatives
21:14:09 <monerofanboy2> that grammatically do not make sense. (facepalm)
21:15:06 <mark_bleep[m]> Haha
21:15:06 <mark_bleep[m]> TTL was updated between my lookups.. now it's at a reasonable level
21:16:43 <mark_bleep[m]> First lookup had it at 515100, next at 7085, so 6 days to 2 hours
21:17:38 <mark_bleep[m]> Ignore all that. Typo. Blech
21:24:08 <monerofanboy2> Does some sort of notification system exist for new monero cli releases?
21:26:08 <monerofanboy2> I would like to be immediately "on it" when v0.17.1.19 drops
21:26:26 <selsta> monerofanboy2: this exists feed:https://github.com/monero-project/monero/releases.atom
21:27:13 <mark_bleep[m]> <monerofanboy2 "I would like to be immediately ""> Maybe something like this?
21:29:32 * mark_bleep[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/HETpLRpqCPEyXwparSVpJqdw/message.txt >
21:30:28 <mark_bleep[m]> <monerofanboy2 "I would like to be immediately ""> https://github.com/AurelienLourot/github-commit-watcher
21:31:30 <binaryFate> I think github has email notification for that
21:37:01 <monerofanboy2> I was thinking more discord push notification to my phone/computer, which I just realized I should be able to setup based on new monero releases on github. I know of other projects that do that, I just need to set it up myself for once.
21:44:29 <gingeropolous> how often is the dns blocklist updated?
21:45:21 <sethsimmons> 7000s IIRC
21:45:56 <gingeropolous> nice
21:46:15 <gingeropolous> oh the tor list ins't on there hrm
21:46:26 <selsta> yea we will add it
21:46:34 <gingeropolous> well lets see if monerod can handle --block-list and --dns-block-list
21:47:08 <gingeropolous> loaded fine
22:01:15 <grndslm> guys.... where can i find a list of what the various xmrig or randomx options do??
22:05:22 <monerofanboy2> I think this is what you are asking for? https://xmrig.com/docs/miner/command-line-options
22:08:51 <grndslm> well..... i've seen that before, but there's some things I don't really understand what most of those options do.... like numa, astrobwt-avx2, etc.
22:09:48 <grndslm> and should I limit --init or threads to number of cores, or threads??  I've heard xmrig runs faster when limited to cores, as opposed to threads....
22:16:39 <h2017> readging above convo. those crititizing the work of the devels, do *not* do that. they are doing god's work
22:17:16 <h2017> if you want to critize make sure that you accompany your criticicism with a generous tip because they deserve to be more than compensated for all they have done.
22:21:10 <slighty_toasted> Does something like torservers.net exist but for monero nodes?
22:21:34 <slighty_toasted> If not I think it'd be a great idea
22:22:01 <slighty_toasted> Especially with the influx of people lately wanting to run a node but not having the technical know-how
22:58:51 <selsta> ok, we can’t add Tor to dns-blocklist, too many entries
22:59:03 <selsta> using --ban-list is requires until we put out a new release
22:59:08 <selsta> or recommended
22:59:32 <p0nziph0ne> is the second attackvector already known?
23:02:09 <mark_bleep[m]> <h2017 "if you want to critize make sure"> Just because the skill of the criticizer is low doesn't mean high value can't be extracted by the recipient.
23:03:02 <selsta> p0nziph0ne: yes https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/7244 might be enough to stop it
23:03:11 <selsta> else a second PR is requires too which will soon be submitted
23:05:45 <p0nziph0ne> selsta: thanks, wish i would understand anything in coding
23:10:46 <hyc> mark_bleep[m]: if you think you're pointing out anything the devs haven't already recognized, think again
23:30:00 <BobSacmanto[m]> How many transactions per second can Cardano do as of the end of 2020?
23:30:45 <BobSacmanto[m]>  * How many transactions per second can Monero do as of the end of 2020?
23:35:16 <slighty_toasted> this might be outdated but heres a video from 2018 where hyc says it's 1700 transactions/second
23:35:19 <slighty_toasted> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI4S6ek7fUI
23:35:24 <slighty_toasted> 31:30
23:36:14 <moneromooo> You'd need a really beefy machine for that.
23:36:29 <moneromooo> Unless that was before rct.
23:38:17 <slighty_toasted> the video was shot a year after ring ct
23:43:13 <hyc> I don't recall the source of those numbers now
23:43:34 <hyc> but most likely still practical on current hardware
23:43:56 <hyc> maybe not on a Pi4 tho ;)
23:45:05 <hyc> 1700tx/s at 1500bytes/tx means 2.5MB/s network bandwidth
23:52:14 <slighty_toasted> Monero's all time highest tx/day is 32k which averages to 0.37 tx/sec. RAM and bandwidth should be cheap by the time Monero gets remotely close to 1700 tx/sec