00:14:16 2020-12-29 00:13:33.686 W Unable to send transaction(s) to i2p - no suitable outbound connections at height 2262408 00:14:17 00:14:42 OUT : I2P no 0000000000000001 0 2507(16)/1446(17) normal 60 0 0 0 0 00:14:42 OUT : I2P no 0000000000000001 0 7856(14)/2263(17) normal 161 0 0 0 0 00:14:42 OUT : I2P no 0000000000000001 0 3053(11)/52380(11) normal 262 0 0 0 0 00:14:52 any thoughts about whats wrong? 00:17:13 you can try relay_tx txid 00:17:28 but not sure why it didn’t send in the first place if you have out peers 00:21:58 relay_tx txid 00:21:58 2020-12-29 00:21:32.987 E invalid hash format: txid 00:21:58 failed to parse tx id 00:22:17 you have to use your transaction id 00:22:45 in general I have found Tor more stable than I2P 00:24:51 selsta, any suggestions on the best tor tutorial? 00:24:59 that was next on my list 00:29:18 which OS are you using? 00:30:11 debian buster 00:30:13 replay_tx 2262419 00:30:14 unknown command: replay_tx 2262419 00:30:21 relay not replay 00:30:43 oh my bad 00:31:32 relay_tx 2262419 00:31:33 2020-12-29 00:30:36.430 E invalid hash format: 2262419 00:31:33 failed to parse tx id 00:31:45 that's not the TX hash 00:32:24 do I need to turn logging up to what # to get it? 00:32:37 on the "transactions" page in the GUI, it's called "Transaction ID" 00:32:52 running cli 00:34:37 mm 00:34:38 show_transfers 00:34:45 meowmix 00:34:56 sorry 00:39:57 show_transfers 00:39:58 unknown command: show_transfers 00:40:51 show_transfers is a wallet command 00:41:35 oh ok 00:42:23 ok, for tor you can just install using your package manager, start tor and then --tx-proxy tor,172.0.0.1:9050 00:44:00 thank you 00:50:17 mnt_grrrl2: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/contrib/tor/monero-over-tor.sh 00:51:04 was just looking at that 02:31:43 hi! 02:43:36 I want to buy XMR 02:52:38 Dommelbommel, the best way is an exchange 02:53:06 well, maybe not best. but perhaps safest? 02:55:08 Okay, what do you think of XMR.to 02:57:28 Dommelbommel: you can't buy xmr from them 02:57:39 Just found out myself lol 02:57:41 thx 02:57:50 Np 02:58:00 Where do y'all buy XMR there are little to no good offers on LocalMonero 02:58:11 kraken 02:58:11 Very good service for what it is 02:58:47 I enjoyed localbitcoins bc there are offers without ID required but on LocalMonero there aren't enough 02:59:00 Any mobile wallets that support stagenet/testnet? 02:59:03 you could try something like bisq 02:59:15 i haven't used it but supposedly its a decentralized exchange 02:59:49 I just downloaded Bisq, will try it, but pretty high minimum amounts 03:00:14 I'll look at Kraken aswell, thx 03:00:38 oh .006 security deposit of BTC so its like 160 bucks 03:00:56 i use bittrex because kraken won't service WA 03:02:53 What do you think of MyMonero as wallet 03:03:46 It's a web wallet 03:04:05 so not very secure? 03:04:16 There are fake duplicate sites 03:04:52 If you are careful it's ok for small amounts 03:05:05 I downloaded the program looks okay 03:05:32 The site itself is ok 03:06:24 Think you still need to put your seed in each time and they use a 13 word one 03:06:51 So another thing you need to be careful about 03:07:00 yeah I got a seed and I need to put in my password every 10 mins 03:07:48 I use the CLI 03:09:39 ah that's cool 03:10:43 I always have a node running 03:11:06 It can be used with a remote node 03:11:38 But I have never done so 03:12:43 So you keep everything offline good idea probably 03:14:31 I'm still a newbie it's my first time buying XMR, but I bought BTC a few times 03:15:00 Hello guys. My first post here. 03:15:26 hi! 03:15:43 Is any one a developer? 03:17:18 Like, I understand monero was written in c etc... but I only know python. Can I mine for XMR writing program in python? Like I am sure from what I understand I just have to show math proof to show I found the next block. Like can I not do the calculations to solve the block and go from there with out having to understand C or whatever 03:18:41 The daemon is capable of mining or you can use a mining program such as xmrig 03:20:32 The daemon needs to download the blockchain and is solo mining by default 03:21:16 xmrig will get you a higher hashrate and is easier to mine on a pool 03:22:01 ok what exactly is the daemon. yes I know I can google it I have used crypto for awhile it just that word confuses me a bit. Are you talking about the wallet software? 03:23:17 The daemon is the program that maintains the blockchain by talking to other monero peers on the network and keeping the latest chain on your disk. 03:23:34 The wallet then parses this chain to send and receive monero. 03:24:05 and it is also trying to figure the next block? 03:24:11 the wallet talks to a daemon and asks it to parse the chain 03:24:17 Monero's mostly C++ (close enough to C if you squint I guess). Mining using Python code will likely be *very* slow, if you wrote such a miner. 03:25:07 The daemon (or another miner) will "figure the next block". 03:25:27 and what is the math proof needed to be shown for that 03:25:29 for monero 03:26:00 sorry if that question is too much. I have not read the full pdf on monero yet 03:26:25 Supplying a valid block such that its long hash (interpreted as a bignum) is below a certain number. 03:27:27 so last hash plus new data hash together with a certain number range 03:27:54 In a way, yes. 03:27:56 I mainly wanted to write a python miner to improve my python skills 03:28:17 The hashing algorithm will be... complicated to implement. 03:28:26 but would I even understand how to broadcast transaction to a network software written in c 03:29:02 If you want to write this too, you need speak the network's P2P language, which is custom. 03:29:08 so i need to learn c to be able to write monero miners, sprograms etc.. 03:29:52 I suppose you kinda need to to understand the code if you want to make a compatible python implementation, yes. C++. 03:30:29 and this P2P language 03:30:35 can be understood by reading the code 03:30:43 or is there a documentation somewhere 03:31:02 Code. There's a protocol primer in docs too. 03:31:08 LEVIN.md or similar name. 03:31:30 That'll be a large job for someone who already knows C++ fwiw. 03:31:45 whats fwiw? 03:32:02 for what its worth 03:32:26 It's worth its worth, tautologically. 03:32:58 I dunno about Python so far I have learned its like a glue language to glue a bunch of stuff written in c together 03:33:11 all the cool stuff is written in C++ etc... 03:33:21 like monero 03:33:24 bitcoin 03:33:28 games 03:34:02 do I need to know any CS to understand C? 03:34:13 or can I just pick it up the same way i picked up python 03:34:33 Easy to pick up, hard to master. 03:34:58 Some might take issue with the first part :) 03:35:18 like do I have to understand anything about how the CPU works or how exactly memory works 03:35:36 But if you know neither C nor Python... forget it and save yourself some wasted time. 03:35:43 you don't need to know those to write code in C 03:35:51 but knowing it will help you write better code 03:36:10 i just know python and can create basic apps 03:36:15 Well, C without knowing how memory works, you're pretty much hosed unless you're doing toy stuff. 03:39:01 Well, you can get away with declaring structs without actually understanding memory layout. much like Pasca 03:39:04 Pascal 03:39:43 but yeah, it's essential for going further 03:39:47 Yes, but you soon need pointers. But maybe you can get pretty far already without using any ? Hmm. 03:40:08 * moneromooo senses a vague challenge there... 03:40:39 this is what drives me crazy about my little knowledge in python... i just wish it didnt seem like magic typing things in... but then every one tells me I dont wanna go through all that trouble 03:40:42 Arrays and indices. 03:41:11 like I think if I understood how to go from like logic gates to an OS 03:41:21 all of this higher level stuff will make sense 03:41:27 or is that not worth the effort? 03:41:33 Oh you don't need to know the low level hw side. 03:42:04 Though logic ops, you do. 03:43:24 can any program be written with only loops, vars, and conditonal staments, arrays? 03:43:30 and functions. 03:43:58 probably 03:44:15 BASIC didn't even have functions, but you could still write just about anything with it 03:44:31 *didn't have user-defined functions 03:44:49 You can always make your own stack if you have arrays. 03:46:56 so what is the pre req to learn c 03:48:29 Time and patience ? 03:48:54 I mean, if you want to be able to read/comprehend the monero P2P code to rewrite it. 03:49:58 ok but like people say I need to understand memory, I dunno what that means, what is the best search term for that 03:50:08 for c++ programming 03:52:19 memory layout, stack, heap 03:53:06 It's less needed for C++ though, which is what monero uses. 03:53:18 STL shields you from a good amount of that. 03:54:57 is monero still mined with gpu and cpu 03:55:08 or is it like bitcoin where you need super duper stuff 03:55:14 like ASICS 03:55:34 CPU. I don't think GPUs can do much atm. 03:56:13 Might not be that far off from CPUs. 03:57:02 current crop of GPUs are still at least 50% worse than CPUs 03:57:22 next AMD generation, RDNA2, looks like it might narrow the gap 04:02:06 My 1070 does like 300-400H/s compared to 15200H/s on my AMD r9 3900x 04:02:13 isn't worth the cost of electricity on the gpu mining 04:12:51 yup i found it there (~/.bitmonero), Thanks, I am trying to build from latest commit of master branch of monero i built it successfully but on running it with following command ./bin/monerod --log-file monerod.log --detach 04:13:17 2020-12-29 04:00:13.520 7f5c10930c00 INFO global src/daemon/p2p.h:63 Initializing p2p server... 04:13:21 2020-12-29 04:00:13.524 7f5c10930c00 INFO stacktrace src/common/stack_trace.cpp:133 Exception: boost::exception_detail::clone_impl > 04:13:32 i see followng in the monerod.log 04:13:37 any help plz 04:14:23 --log-level 1 -> pastebin 04:17:01 hi y'all. anyone know of a way to list all the available RPC commands for the daemon. i have pay for rpc working for the wallet cli but i would like to talk to the node with a custom server using the pay for rpc and i dont see any pay for rpc commands listed on the getmonero.org daemon rpc docs... thanks much 04:19:35 grep MAP.*\" src/rpc/core_rpc_server.h | sed -e 's/.*\"$.*$\".*/\1/' 04:19:55 That gets you both the JSON RPC and the... others. 04:22:56 cool thanks 04:34:50 dexter: I'm off for the evening, I'll see your log tomorrow. 09:06:08 could someone help me to automate my monero deamon to start up automatically at a certain time (at midgnight) and power down at (17h / 5pm) ? Im running the deamon on macos cli. 09:07:01 another option could be to lower the upload en download rate between midnight and 5pm , this way the node remains up. 09:08:20 on linux you could use tc to shape the traffic - e.g. limiting bandwidth at specific times. no idea how/if that translates to macOS 09:51:39 just set up a cron job to run "monerod limit_up xx" at specified times 09:51:53 a script that issues limit_up limit_down commands 10:27:25 oooh 10:48:06 People syncing a lot of nodes lately. I have >100 incoming connections on my nodes 12:02:37 ryo_ru: If i was on their place i would shit bricks daily from recognising a thought thatactually more inclined and financial backed guys can come and knock you down. So i would rush for resolution asap 12:02:38 fice: But they are stupid and short sighted, with each update they think it is the last one, pat themselves on the back and declare victory. Welcome to Monero. Are you tired of winning yet? 12:50:19 this may come off as a dumb question but is it possible to save your monero blockchain between two storage devices? example: fill up a rasp pi sd card and then continue to save to a flashdrive? 12:59:35 selsta please add IP 104.248.112.30 (n+2) 13:00:56 Barbelo you can configure a JBOD array out of sd card and flashdrive and format them into a single volume, but they'll have to be always connected after that 13:29:10 I hate to sate it, but perhaps we should mimic the attacker in using automation for the provisioning of Monero nodes. Several VPS providers offer APIs and there are very popular config management tools like Ansible. 13:48:47 Define "we" 13:49:09 Who would actually be in charge for that? Who would pay for it? 13:50:23 much decentralization... 14:15:15 I was referring to the discussion that took place here over the weekend, about increasing the number of legit nodes to make the network more resilient. 14:18:18 Since most people don't have Linux sysadmin skills but would probably be happy to "outsource" the operation of nodes. I was just thinking out loud ... 14:23:06 Could do essentially what Streisand does but with Monero nodes, allowing easy spin up of nodes by users on their own cloud provider accounts. 14:23:16 But that still requires comfort with CLI. 14:23:41 I think a simple GUI for running a node on personal hardware is the better path forward and is harder to shutdown or censor. 14:25:04 are all tor exit nodes on the ban list? if a person were to run a node completely torrified they would be banned by other peers unconditionally? 14:25:10 Exactly, I even gave the link to Streisand ( https://github.com/StreisandEffect/streisand ) as the best implementation of what I had in mind. But the specs are quite different, since streisand only needs a compute node 14:26:48 Good enough hardware via a VPS is pretty pricy, as you need good storage and a lot of bandwidth. 14:40:12 my P2P node appears on monernohash map only after I open 18089 port, even though i don't have RPC set up in my launch options, I don't even have the --public-node or --confirm-external-bind 14:50:14 Did you use a custom port for P2P? 14:50:16 thead ^ 14:50:30 18080 15:35:40 hiya! so im working with the pay for rpc (and first off, the monero code is really cool. thanks y'all) i found the list of rpc commands in the monero code for the daemon. however i cant find how to get the client ID for building and accessing the pay for rpc credits on the client... any ideas about how to get that clientID. thanks much 15:37:27 Multiply your key (random secret) by G. There's a function called secret_key_to_public_key IIRC that does this. 15:37:54 Actually scratch the first sentence. Might be an extra x8 or so somewhere. 15:38:23 its not generated on the daemon? 15:38:48 Correct. 15:41:31 sethsimmons sure a VPS for Monero node is a bit pricey ($150-$200/yr), probably due to most of them switching to SSD in the last 2-3 years and offering very limited diskspace. But what is the alternative to a fleet of VPS, if one wants to grow the number of nodes. IMHO suggesting that people run a node on their home Win10 PC or on a SBC / RasPi etc 15:41:32 will result in many disappointed volunteers. 15:44:10 Why? I’d rather run one on hardware I own at home for many reasons, cost and bandwidth being chief among them. 15:44:24 Running a VPS is generally far outside of normal users comfort zones. 16:33:07 What would be approved size for --block-sync-size ? If i set it to 500 I get disconnected from network all the time and can't sync. 16:33:27 The defaults are fairly reasonable 16:33:31 Generally advised to not change them 16:33:58 Yeah I goofed up and overwrote my blockchain with new one.. 16:56:45 monerouser1144: done 17:20:26 hi guys, what is this buzz about "US firm registered tracking SW"...I have seen some exchanged delisted XMR 17:21:44 There haven't been any exchange delistings recently 17:21:46 sn1p3r you're 4 months late to the party 17:21:46 diisssscoonneeeeeee ♪ ┗(＾0＾)┓ ♪ 17:21:51 for XMR that is 17:22:10 so fake news :-D 17:22:23 Binance claimed no XMR due US pressure 17:22:45 That firm which claimed Monero tracking failed to win a government grant of $650000 to track Monero... a week later :D 17:23:02 they try to scare people no wonder 17:23:40 it doesn't fit present propaganda...Banks want to offer own digital currency like ECB in 2025 and screw out crypto in 2022 17:24:56 @sech1 they claimed they filled for patent...unsure about company name 17:25:33 Everyone can file a patent. Apple filed a patent about rectangle with round corners 17:26:11 you can watch their pathetic interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5rtd3md11g 17:26:28 what about US government new strategy comply or die...they seems to not like what cannot be tracked ::-D 17:26:47 I guess this crap comes to Europe as well 17:28:13 at the same time XMR is probably the only crypto that comes close to complying with europe gdpr laws 17:29:06 The United Nations wants a world totalitarian Marxist takeover 17:29:33 does this involve George Soros 17:29:59 Yes and many more going back at least 6000 years ago 17:30:38 does it also include the Rothschilds 17:31:16 Yes it also includes the knights Templar Freemasons the priory de sion 17:31:46 is there a child sex trafficking ring operating out of a pizza shop 17:32:42 No that was fake news they have underground bases where they breed their own kids and they bring most these kid napped kids to the bohemian Grove and places like the hellfire club 17:33:22 i cant tell if you're being serious but i feel like you need a hug 17:33:44 Do you ever listen to crypto currency podcasts 17:34:00 no 17:34:10 i assume you're a fan of infowars 17:34:25 And I'm trying to get married to a girl from Korea or Japan or china 17:34:25 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbC6dLG_dQY 17:34:29 Jones has been on the Bohemian Grove thing for decades 17:34:48 No I didn't like Alex Jones I like bill Cooper Ralph epperson and David icke 17:35:03 David "the queen is a lizard" Icke? 17:35:12 Yes 17:35:23 what about the transdimensional psychic vampires 17:35:37 Yes 17:36:52 do you also do the flat earth thing or heliocentrism 17:36:58 oh boy Conspiracy terrorism, the fun of half-brains since we have built Internet :-D 17:37:16 i dont think conspiracy theorists are dumb, just mislead 17:37:58 No I'm not big on the flat Earth stuff but I think we need to fly across Antarctica because we never have flown straight through it 17:38:13 there's powerful people in the world gambling with the lives of poor people, but it's not a shady cabal of rich jews, and it's not in search of some satanic ritualistic actualisation 17:38:43 There's no reason why this shouldn't have been done they're hiding something from us and it's not Jews it's the zionists they're different 17:38:55 conspiracy terrorism has been invented for that mos dangerous group of humanoids that from time to time take over...mix of bullshit and truth that keeps half-brains occupied for at least 40 years 17:39:39 the5000[m]: what do you think of the JQ 17:40:10 ever wonder why do not commercial jets fly over mountains and south/north pole? it is simpler thank you think 17:40:10 I don't even know what that is 17:40:59 I'm trying to get married to a girl from an Asian country to sell my us citizenship to 17:41:32 how do you feel about FEMA 17:41:43 It's real so are the camps 17:42:47 Denver Airport? 17:43:04 pale blue dot 17:43:36 humans.....how do they work? 17:45:29 Real for sure it's full of Masonic symbols there is a base under it 17:46:30 humans have a habit of finding patterns where none were intended, partly because disorder is scary 17:46:47 One discovery I made is that the skull and bones arm of the Illuminati killed the rapper woodie 17:47:36 and conspiracy theorists fall in to a protagonist complex where they're on the forefront of some big problem and it makes them important 17:48:12 they have the proof, they figured it out, they'll save the day and rid us of the evil that is singly responsible for the ills of the wordl 17:48:13 world* 17:48:40 Do you guys use hardware wallets for crypto? 17:48:45 yes 17:49:20 it's not a stupidly in any sense, it's misplaced enthusiasm and exceptionalism, the latter being why they feel the need to bring it up all the time 17:49:49 it's like god people who feel uniquely enlightened and feel it is their duty to convince and save those around them 17:49:50 What wallet do you use 17:50:20 i stopped wasting time with conspiracy terrorism...if you see living Icke over and over again...there is something inherently wrong because non believers are always purified 17:50:40 I use Ledger products 17:50:51 What hardware to and how do hardware wallets work? Can I get 5 of them and have them all share the same wallets so if something happens to one I have backups? 17:51:35 no, all you need is mnemonic words on safe place because when you lose HW wallet....you buy new one and recover it 17:52:39 I've never used one the last time I used crypto was in 14. I am trying to get back into it 17:52:46 if you have lots of crypto currencies...you may need more hw wallets because they usually have limited disk space on them...my can hold like four types of currency 17:53:18 Okay that's good enough 17:53:27 it is more like cold storage 17:53:29 What 4 did you end up picking 17:54:10 if you use Monero, Ledger has no direct support and you connect via Getmonero GUI or full node wallet 17:54:44 in other words...it is safely stored on HW wallet but connected via external app 17:55:09 I mine ETC and like XMR for its privacy 17:55:43 what's ETC 17:57:42 wow I missed some fun convo lol 18:00:37 Ethereum Classic = ETC 18:01:44 u believe in it? or just mine 18:10:19 Have you ever read mastering monero 18:10:52 there is also "zero to monero" 18:16:25 Okay 18:17:04 @thead I do not believe in anything that has imaginary value :-D 18:17:25 ETC is last profitable coin to mine...question only how long 18:19:54 What about general crypto to 18:21:02 no value other than "believe"...even worst than normal "money" 18:21:16 intangible, poor liquidity 18:21:30 soon only tradable on Dark Net 18:25:32 What are the top 5 cryptos to know and trade 18:28:42 trading crypto is only worth if you got successful trading experience in other markets, otherwise it's waste of time. just DCA every month meaningless amount of money and HODL, instead of trading 18:31:53 Bitcoin, monero, grin, ethereum... hmm, we need a fifth ? 18:31:55 trading crypto is greatest gamble you can do, there is no fundamentals just pure human chaos :-D 18:32:25 I'd have said cryptonite if you hadn't said "trade" :P 18:33:30 no good trader wants to create competition for himself, and give out asymmetrical information - his methods and tricks that lets him stay profitable 18:34:56 why grin moneromooo? 18:35:41 What about zcash and dash 18:36:13 Grin scales pretty well (though still has a linear component per tx). 18:36:49 Zcash is an odd one, very nice math, but it seems part of the team is being a bit dodgy. 18:36:53 dash is an outright scam. 18:37:13 how about doge moneromooo? 18:37:14 :) 18:37:29 or ltc instead of etherescam :p 18:37:38 Coasting on popular culture. 18:37:39 Wasn't doge supposed to be a joke 18:37:47 it's less of a joke than eth 18:37:55 doesn't matter what it was meant to be 18:37:59 it's more legit than most 18:38:01 Ethereum is a massive tower of... stuff. 18:38:03 chaos creates opportunity 18:38:26 btc, xmr, doge, ltc 18:38:33 i don't have a fifth 18:38:40 they have the proof, they figured it out, they'll save the day and rid us of the evil that is singly responsible for the ills of the wordl <- can I report you to freenode for attacking Christianity and revelead religion in general? 18:39:09 Religion is a social disease. 18:39:11 i dont think that's much of an attack 18:39:28 seems like a pretty frontal attack to me (: 18:39:31 also i thoroughly support religious freedoms 18:39:31 o_0 18:39:42 iunno why people even talk about religion in 2020 18:39:42 Very similar to Covid. You have it, it's your problem, but if you try to pass it on, you're an asshole :) 18:39:57 LOL, just catching up on the conspiracy discussion of the past hour or so. Seemingly OECD is the driving force behind ever intrusive financial controls, which nowadays involve even minimal amounts (usually in the name of terrorism or exploitation etc). Newer generations have no idea of the dismantling of privacy in the past 30-40 years. I wonder if 18:39:58 anyone knows that until the 1980s there were BEARER BONDS issued by the US (like those stored in the vault of Nakatomi Corp in the movie "Die hard"). 18:40:09 religion is fear as many more forms that humanoids suffer from but it tends to be great business 18:40:20 I like bearer stuff in general monerouser1144 18:40:49 People are genetically bred by the ruling class to be manipulated and religion is a form of control. 18:41:01 genetically bred? 18:41:17 or do you mean socially indoctrinated 18:41:20 ? 18:41:26 ComplyLast: the thing is, i wasn't saying that was bad, i was just expressing how i think people like that see the situation 18:41:34 yes, read Brave New World, it's not fiction. Huxley in a LSD induced trip saw reality 18:41:39 imagine you built business for 3000 years and then comes some mofos that invent untrackable 1/0 somewhere on server that you cannot use anywhere...bank mafia retaliates 18:41:43 Yes the Christians killed non believers so they're all inbred with the same genetics to believe lies that is why we have so much sheeple 18:41:45 jess, just messing with you :) 18:41:56 :p 18:42:29 christian cult is offspring of jews 18:42:33 I have read many of huxleys books and Orwell's and I know his family history he was a Fabian and etonite and his brother worked with darwin he was a promoter of modernism and humanism he is an Illuminati stooge 18:43:10 i try to not judge people that believe things that i think are really wrong or dangerous because i dont think people set out in life to be wrong or dangerous 18:43:25 To go back to the previous conversation, I think some part of why people end up believing conspiracies or religions is that their probability estimation is out of whack. 18:43:41 what makes it out of whack? trauma? 18:43:50 any form of -ism must be purfied ;-) 18:44:00 Everyone will by necessity beliee some things without having clear proof for reasons of scaling, this is not bad in itself. 18:44:08 humans have an innate need for order and stability, big events (like 9/11) are much more comforting if you think one single centralised bad entity did it 18:44:15 I believe in you moneromooo 18:44:17 otherwise it could happen at any time anywhere by anyone and you can't control that 18:44:26 the appeal of getting a simple explanation to the complexity of the world 18:44:34 exactly! 18:44:55 But when you start getting on a train of more and more unlikely things, you are in a failiure mode that just messes with your mind in a way that's hard to get back from sometimes. 18:45:07 covid-19 being explained as something breaking free from a lab where it was intentionally created is a lot more comforting than "it just happened randomly and has caused all of this damage" 18:45:51 it is humanoid nature for centuries - what you cannot explain is CIF doing and humanoids love to argue about crap because an opinion is like an asshole, everybody has one 18:45:54 Unfortunately for many, social pressures (family when a kid, people around you) often make you have to choose between going along with the flow or not doing so, and not doing so has high costs. 18:46:13 sn1p3r, that's why I identify as Ferengi these days. 18:46:29 So you go along with some, and soon you go along with more, etc. 18:46:35 @jess Covid has been invented in 2002 and patented in 2003 by French lab :-D 18:46:38 "You can learn just as much by reading a man's bank-book as by reading his diary" said Dr Watson in "The Adventure Of The Norwood Builder" and this even more true today than it was 120yr ago./ 18:47:05 sunk cost and cognitive dissonance. the price to pay to admit you were wrong about the weird stuff you believed appears worse than digging yourself deeper 18:47:13 my sis learnt about Covid in school :-D 18:48:11 this baby disease killed barely 1% of population. I am still waiting for that 98% purge as promised 18:49:14