01:53:50 <h2017> when i have the trezor is there any real reason to also have a non-blank monero wallet password?
01:54:43 <h2017> when i'm protecting the trezor itself and it's pin and its 12 word nemonic
01:56:25 <selsta> h2017: the wallet cache might contain sensitive data
01:56:29 <selsta> past transactions etc.
01:56:42 <h2017> ok, i see that makes sense
01:56:52 <h2017> but nothing that they would need the trezor for
01:59:30 <h2017> by the time people have my hard drive i'm moslty worried about $5 wrench attacks by then anyway
02:00:31 <moneromooo> We clearly need to make it so they have to buy at least $10 wrenches to double our safety.
04:34:25 <hyc> if the Fed keeps printing, they'll be $10 wrenches soon enough
05:23:55 <h2017> ok i notice that the wallet software doesn't seem to want to work when i have two trezors plugged in. it tries connecting to one of the trezors first and if it's the wrong one, it gives up
05:24:22 <h2017> that's not good. it should look through a list of available trezors and then connect to the right one
05:29:39 <h2017> (IMO)
09:18:00 <tvomme> Do you think that you are too smart to be in a cult? Then I would encourage you to look
09:18:02 <tvomme> into how any other cult works / worked. They aren't populated by stupid people.
09:27:43 <tvomme> Do you think that you are too smart to be in a cult? Then I would encourage you to look
09:27:43 <tvomme> into how any other cult works / worked. They aren't populated by stupid people.
09:27:44 <tvomme> Aum Shinrikyo was almost exclusively university professors and graduates. For Pete's sake - they had the know-how and means to make WMDs.
09:27:44 <tvomme> As to Monero, I would encourage you to look at Jonestown mass-suicide. You know why Jones killed them all?
09:27:45 <tvomme> Because he was afraid he is loosing control over them. People like that will burn everything to the ground around them rather than give up control.
09:27:45 <tvomme> Being smart doesn't make you immune to being in a cult. This is the most valuable lesson Monero taught me.
09:28:29 <jess> seen
11:09:24 <ErCiccione[m]> Qasim back at it :)
11:11:26 <Mochi101> Guys, am I in a cult?
11:25:32 <M5M400> Mochi101: probably?
11:26:15 <Mochi101> Damn, I thought I was too smart for that.
11:27:58 <ErCiccione[m]> You are not. You should have learned that valuable lesson from Monero.
11:28:28 <Mochi101> Please don't kill us all fluffypony
11:38:33 <M5M400> Mochi101: we should look for a less culty, more welcoming community that keeps to themselves and improving their fork of evil software instead of spending all their time badmouthing and attacking the very thing that they copied from
11:39:09 <Mochi101> wait a second...
11:39:16 <M5M400> you know... one with a charismatic leader that isn't an ass.
11:39:53 <Mochi101> A fork that welcomes eveRYOne?
11:39:55 <fluffypony> hah
11:39:58 <fluffypony> I see what you did there
11:40:11 <M5M400> that random IRC person really opened my eyes here, eh
11:41:35 <p0nziph0ne> ring ring, yes hello, this is p0nzi speaking, am i right here at the cult or am i too late
11:42:17 <ErCiccione[m]> Who would have guessed that the truth comes from spammers on freenode. I'm finally awake.
11:43:01 <M5M400> allah is not doing. ryu is doing.
11:46:22 <M5M400> https://i.imgflip.com/4r2i77.jpg
11:49:55 <M5M400> https://i.imgflip.com/4r2ifh.jpg
12:02:03 <Mochi101> Is that the video game character Ryoken?
12:12:06 <M5M400> https://streetfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Ryu
12:20:18 <Mochi101> Come on M5M400, I'm from the generation that skipped school to play that game in the arcade.
12:44:16 <M5M400> right. I forgot you are old
14:55:21 <h2017> hi
15:13:08 <Mochi101> hello
15:15:23 <fluffypony> the problem with these tweets is it's sometimes hard to tell if someone is spamming or just making a joke
15:15:45 <fluffypony> IRC messages I mean
15:15:47 <fluffypony> not Tweets
15:23:17 <Mochi101> That's the nature of IRC fluffypony. Always has and always will be. !/s
15:26:21 <zib> you know someone is looking at twitter too much when he confuses it with irc
15:27:20 <mfoolb> well.. 'funny' messages could be left out of #monero and part of for example -community
15:33:25 <anchor[m]> Fun police
15:37:30 <raecarruth> how does anybody confuse twitter with irc?
15:41:21 <p0nziph0ne> fluffy getting older
17:38:01 <fluffypony> exactly
17:38:19 <fluffypony> I'm getting gray hairs where there shouldn't be
17:45:17 <h2017> i notice that the wallet software doesn't seem to want to work when i have two trezors plugged in. it tries connecting to one of the trezors first and if it's the wrong one, it gives up
17:45:43 <h2017> this is on linux
17:49:16 <dEBRUYNE> Why would you want to use two simultaneously?
17:51:25 <h2017> why not? the trezor wallet is ok with that. why shouldn't the monero wallet?
17:52:15 <h2017> this only came up because i wanted to know that if you plugged in the wrong wallet it wouldn't cause chaos with an existing wallet tied to a different trezor
17:52:40 <dEBRUYNE> It wouldn't open
17:52:45 <selsta> trezor wallet is written from the ground up for trezor
17:52:47 <selsta> monero wallet is not
17:53:31 <h2017> yes there are no sersious issues. i'm not wanting to use the trezor wallet. i'm just saying that if that's not a problem for it then it's not crazy to beusing two trezor's at once. the trezor people don't seem to think so.
17:53:58 <dEBRUYNE> The Trezor Monero integration was probably designed for a single device, not for having two devices open simultaneously
17:54:41 <h2017> it could scan them and figure out if there was one with the right identifiers instead of giving up
17:54:50 <h2017> giving up if the first one is wrong is unnecessary
17:54:59 <h2017> anyway it's not a big issue
17:56:49 <dEBRUYNE> Probably too much work required for little benefit obtained
17:57:00 <dEBRUYNE> There's hardly any people using multiple devices simultaneously
17:57:09 <dEBRUYNE> And a more likely case is probably using Ledger + Trezor, which I think works fine
17:59:48 <h2017> the trezor people will probably never put monero as part of there wallet software right? too much data stored on their server so it wouldn't be a privacy coin if used that way. is that it?
18:00:44 <h2017> i don't need full privacy for my usages of monero so if it was part of the trezor wallet that would be convenient for me. it would be nice if it was there and as part of the settings you could point to the monerod of your choice
18:00:56 <h2017> anwway that may be a question for trezor and not this chan
18:00:59 <selsta> afaik they are considering it
19:08:16 <h2017> i'm trying to understand monerod. so i want to set up a public node. so it indicates rpc-bind-port should be 18089. What should --rpc-bind-ip be set to?
19:09:32 <moneromooo> Whatever NIC you want to be opened to outside clients. Or 0.0.0.0 for all.
19:09:49 <h2017> if a public node it should be available for all right?
19:10:00 <moneromooo> Your choice.
19:10:58 <h2017> if setting up a private node i shouldn't even port forward to 18089 right? because no one but me should be using rpc command on the node if i intend to be private, right?
19:11:06 <moneromooo> If you do that, make sure you  use --restricted-rpc.
19:11:14 <h2017> yes i know to do that
19:11:34 <moneromooo> If you don't intend to use your node from the outside, bind to 127.0.0.1.
19:12:46 <h2017> ok i think i have enough info
19:12:51 <h2017> you guys want more public nodes right?
19:13:30 <moneromooo> Some do.
19:13:54 <moneromooo> It seems to be a necessary evil.
19:14:00 <h2017> ok so there is no consensus on that? but you do want more nodes, right, even if private?
19:14:07 <moneromooo> Oh yes.
19:14:12 <h2017> so maybe i'll just run a private node
19:32:27 <Lyza> more honest public nodes can only help
19:39:39 <Lyza> btw I've seen my node often using a lot of CPU lately, and being slow to respond. I've seen a couple of mentions that maybe our friend has progressed to ddos attacks is that a confirmed thing?
19:40:44 <selsta> public node?
19:40:52 <selsta> public rpc node*
19:41:40 <Lyza> yeah I've got restricted RPC avail publicly with the "public-node" flag enabled
19:41:46 <selsta> we have a patch here: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/6262#issuecomment-748612394
19:41:55 <selsta> but we don’t know if it works yet because restarting makes the attack stop
19:42:46 <Lyza> got it ty for the link
19:44:55 <Lyza> maybe it's because my server is a beefy boy but I've been able to power through it without connections getting entirely dropped
19:45:18 <selsta> it also only increased CPU usage on my nodes
19:46:01 <Lyza> well I'll see about trying to build and test if I get a minute
19:47:22 <Lyza> is somebody's got it pre-built I can test that
19:52:47 <Lyza> btw the thing people have been reporting where the Language etc settings sometimes get reset in the Windows GUI, I just experienced that. Doesn't look like there's an issue open. Is there anything in particular that would be useful for tracking this down? other than the GUI log
19:52:47 <Quotes> fuck windows, use linux!
19:52:51 <Lyza> lol sh
19:53:24 <selsta> Lyza: only language?
19:54:14 <Lyza> no, it reset everything. it went from advanced mode to simple (bootstrap) and even turned the custom window decorations back on
19:54:26 <selsta> when did this happen?
19:54:58 <Lyza> about 10 minutes ago. it wasn't right after an update, either. I've been on 0.17.1.7 for days
19:55:36 <selsta> anything else you changed?
19:55:44 <selsta> windows user?
19:55:53 <selsta> using something like ccleaner?
19:55:55 <selsta> portable mode?
19:56:36 <Lyza> Windows user, yes. No restarts today. No ccleaner or anything similar, didn't run anything that would touch the registry Only use Windows defender, have exceptions set. Have not been using portable mode, did not recently turn it on or off
19:56:49 <selsta> Changing Windows user can cause this.
19:57:00 <selsta> as far as I know
19:57:11 <Lyza> ther eis onyl a single user
20:00:09 <selsta> we can hope that this resolves once we update Qt to 5.15
20:00:15 <selsta> else no idea, we did not change anything in months
20:00:30 <Lyza> ah yeah I remember a discussion about how Qt handles the interaction with the registry
20:00:50 <Lyza> I think this has been happening for most of the 0.17.1.x releases iirc
20:01:10 <Lyza> Qt 5.15 in the next release?
20:02:07 <selsta> no
20:02:22 <selsta> but it is planned for a future release
20:07:07 <selsta> Lyza: did you delete a wallet?
20:08:30 <Lyza> selsta I did not
20:09:02 <Lyza> I'm trying to think if I did anything funny at all but I really can't recall doing anything unusual
20:09:30 <Lyza> I only opened the GUI to see if my node was still responsive under the abnormal CPU load
20:14:29 <selsta> I can’t imagine how the registry settings would get wiped
20:33:33 <h2017> i wish that the wallet software was different. i think the devels should have kept the wallet package separate from monerod. that way everyone would be encouraged to run their own permament node
20:33:57 <selsta> wallet is separate from monerod
20:34:15 <h2017> yes but it's packaged together and the wallet starts monerod automatically
20:34:52 <selsta> I doubt that not bundling it together would result in more full nodes.
20:35:44 <h2017> it would because people would be forced to think about it.
20:36:03 <selsta> the CLI wallet is doing that
20:41:16 <h2017> the wallet is designed basically to conceal everything that's really happening in the name of user friendliness
20:41:31 <h2017> the gui wallet anyway
20:42:08 <selsta> what is the alternative? force everyone to use the CLI wallet so that they have to think about it more? we already get complains that the current GUI is too complicated
20:44:14 <selsta> I think we can’t make everyone happy, but a simpler to use GUI wallet + CLI for power users seems like a good tradeoff
20:44:40 <h2017> i don't know what happens on windows specifically. the alternative is to have the user set up monerod using the command line and not have wallet do any of that automatically. on windows there should be a gui utility available for configuring monerod (maybe there is already)
20:44:49 <h2017> because windows users like that kind of thing
20:45:19 <sethsimmons> Making things harder will not encourage adoption or increased node count.
20:45:23 <dEBRUYNE> h2017: They are considering it for Trezor Suite as far as I know
20:45:32 <selsta> But users use the GUI wallet to specifically not use the command line. CLI wallet is for users who like command like.
20:45:36 <sethsimmons> And not every user needs a full node for their security/privacy model.
20:45:42 <selsta> command line*
20:46:38 <sethsimmons> If you really want increased node counts make a dead-simple always-on GUI for running monerod across OSs so non-CLI users can easily CJ tribute a node.
20:46:43 <sethsimmons> *contribute
20:46:57 <h2017> sethsimmons, excellent idea
20:47:09 <h2017> i don't think linux users need that but windows ones do
20:47:27 <sethsimmons> I’m sure some Linux users would benefit, not all Linux users are CLI-native.
20:47:48 <sethsimmons> Even just having that bundled with the GUI to simply install monerod as a service with a simple taskbar icon would be nice.
20:48:07 <sethsimmons> I’d gladly fund it but can’t do it myself ATM.
20:57:29 <nioc> h2017: https://twitter.com/JimmyMcShill/status/1340733120610447365
21:00:20 <h2017> nioc yes i can see where you are going. i was wondering the same thing myself. i don't claim to understand any of the technology but using the trezor website as a wallet certainly feels insecure to me
21:00:35 <h2017> the use of a middle man indicates a possible attack vector
21:00:54 <h2017> not saying i disagree
21:01:48 <nioc> this is brand new so thought that you and everyone else should know
21:02:10 <h2017> thanks. don't own ledger fwiw
21:02:30 <nioc> whoops
21:02:32 <h2017> i have a friend at work who does. i'll pass it on
21:02:44 <nioc> why did I think that it was trezor lol
21:05:25 <h2017> anyway it's probably best to not use the trezor wallet, if all the data is hosted at trezor.io and all of the instructions to the trezor have to pass through the web-site
21:05:49 <h2017> or perhaps i don't know what's going on
21:06:14 <selsta> web wallet should be fine if trezor is programmed correctly
21:06:29 <h2017> selsta where is the data you see in the web wallet stored?
21:06:48 <selsta> fine as in they can’t steal your funds
21:06:51 <nioc> not sure but I thought that trezor didn't collect the personal info that ledger does
21:06:53 <selsta> not fine if you want privacy
21:07:04 <h2017> selsta if the web wallet gets taken over by hackers they could do anything i think
21:07:24 <selsta> you have to confirm all your transactions on your trezor
21:07:27 <moneromooo> You need to use the web site to use the hardware ?
21:07:28 <selsta> so they could not steal your funds
21:07:44 <h2017> selsta ok that makes sense
21:07:53 <ndorf> couldn't they substitute a bad transaction for the one you intended, stealing your funds that way?
21:07:59 <h2017> moneromooo, no you don't. it's just one option and monero isn't supported with their webwallet
21:09:31 <h2017> ndorf selsta is right. the physical device asks for confirmation with the specific amount on the screen
21:09:48 <h2017> so i guess the web wallet isn't as scary as i was thinking
21:10:19 <selsta> yep, you confirm the address and amount on the hardware wallet. that is only if there is no bug to exploit this
21:13:28 <h2017> you also confirm the address on the screen of course
21:14:14 <ndorf> gotcha. still seems iffy, they could leave the amount the same and substitute the address. plenty of people probably wouldn't catch that
21:21:44 <h2017> that's for sure
21:25:04 <Lyza> ngl an "always on" GUI node for Windows users would probably help. Then have users either launch a wallet separately, or launch or wallet from the node GUI
21:25:44 <Lyza> or for Linux / Max GUI users even
21:33:33 <sethsimmons> Having that as an option when installing the GUI would be awesome.
21:33:54 <sethsimmons> Just have it start on-boot and give a simple icon to see status/jump to logs/console.