00:01:18 <selsta> flush_txpool txid
00:01:36 <selsta> that only works if the daemon did not propagate it yet
00:05:55 <donkeydonkey[m]> cool. thank you. do you know where i could read bout that
00:07:25 <selsta> https://www.getmonero.org/resources/developer-guides/daemon-rpc.html#flush_txpool
00:08:59 <Henry151> how do i access that "daemon side"?
00:09:18 <selsta> how do you run the daemon?
00:09:42 <selsta> if it is in detached mode you can do ./monerod status
00:09:44 <Henry151> systemd
00:09:47 <donkeydonkey[m]> selsta:  thanks. i see its a daemon command. cool
00:10:01 <Henry151> yeah it's in detached mode
00:14:49 <Franck[m]> Is anyone doing DCA buying Monero? If so, how? I was hoping to setup with kraken but they don't have an autobuy feature :)
00:14:50 <Franck[m]>  * Is anyone doing DCA buying Monero? If so, how? I was hoping to setup with kraken but they don't have an autobuy feature :(
00:18:04 <hyc> write a script to buy with their API
00:32:46 <tio_> curious, what is the opposition to doing it manually?
00:32:55 <tio_> unless, i suppose, you wanted to trade in small amounts over long periods of time
00:33:02 <tio_> with high frequency
02:58:16 <Franck[m]> <tio_ "unless, i suppose, you wanted to"> Exactly that. Using monero as saving accounts while not being bitten by the volatility. Let's say I want to save $10k in a year. Using DCA I can buy $3 a day. I don't have to worry about timing the market in (and out for that matter) with DCA.
02:59:53 <Franck[m]> Similar to the original "hodler". I am bad at trading, I don't want to worry about that :)
03:23:54 <sethsimmons> Franck: https://pypi.org/project/clikraken/
03:24:07 <sethsimmons> Works great, have used it for more than a year with a simple crontab
03:24:44 <sethsimmons> Just obviously limit the API permissions to no withdrawals etc.
03:30:26 <Franck[m]> easy, thanks!
05:38:27 <gingeropolous> hrm. i wonder if I ran a haproxy load distributor for node.moneroworld.com , if a tx gets routed to a AHP, thne the AHP would see that it came from my server
05:38:44 <gingeropolous> though the AHP could just drop the tx upon receipt
05:39:06 <gingeropolous> *unless* the node.moneroworld just duplicates the message to all nodes on the load balancer
05:39:21 <gingeropolous> well that would mess with dandelion
05:39:44 <gingeropolous> goddamnit whyzit so late
05:40:39 <gingeropolous> hrm, could also make the GUI blast out tx to multiple remote nodes
05:40:48 <gingeropolous> would remove the need for a centralized tx blaster
05:45:01 <gingeropolous> awesome. a maintained repository! https://github.com/buger/goreplay
05:45:55 <gingeropolous> hrm thats gonna get messy . nah this won't work with refreshes
05:47:38 <gingeropolous> well, i think this would have to be in the wallet itself so it could connect to multiple, split up the refresh requests, and then push tx to multiple
05:48:14 <gingeropolous> could have the advantage of decreasing remote refresh time with multiple bakcneds
05:48:33 <gingeropolous> BakCNeds!
05:50:14 <selsta> in GUI simple mode the transaction gets sent through both p2p and remote node
05:53:14 <gingeropolous> ah ok, so 2 / 9 nodes send the tx? so it stems from a random p2p node and the remote node?
05:53:36 <selsta> yes
05:53:43 <gingeropolous> i wonder if phone wallets are using the p2p network as such
11:36:23 <sethsimmons> Lol fireice is back I guess https://twitter.com/fireice_uk/status/1324309168514342912?s=21
11:37:01 <sethsimmons> Can someone give me voice in -community? binaryFate moneromooo
11:38:35 <sethsimmons> Not sure who else has permissions but I’d love to be able to talk there again if possible.
12:34:53 <Bish> hi , i tried to use -tx-proxy, but didn't add a tor peer
12:35:04 <Bish> if i try to send it now (over clearnet) the daemon says it's a doublespent
12:35:26 <Bish> but as far as i can tell the moneros are still there :(
12:41:32 <Bish> where does the monero daemon save the infos about txs which are not yet in the bc yet
13:03:49 <Bish> it looks like my transactions are somewhere inside the abyss
13:04:07 <asymptotically> Bish: i had the same issue when i tried out --tx-proxy, let me just double check how i fixed it
13:04:47 <sethsimmons> Yeah f it’s your own node just run:
13:04:47 <sethsimmons> flush_txpool [<txid>]	Flush specified transaction from transactions pool, or flush the whole transactions pool if was not provided.
13:04:58 <Bish> does flush mean, send them out?
13:05:01 <sethsimmons> Bish: if your transaction wasn’t relayed do the above then try again.
13:05:02 <Bish> because i don't want to do that anymore
13:05:11 <sethsimmons> No, it means dump them/don’t gossip them
13:05:16 <Bish> c0ol
13:05:25 <asymptotically> oh that was much easier than what i did :P. i used the get_transactions rpc method to get the tx again, and then i pasted it into xmrchain's tx pusher
13:05:58 <Bish> where do i enter that command, ?
13:06:08 <sethsimmons> That works too if you absolutely need that specific transaction to be relayed, but normally it’s easier to just flush and try again once you’ve fixed whatever peer issues you have.
13:06:16 <sethsimmons> <Bish "where do i enter that command, ?"> In your monerod terminal
13:06:25 <sethsimmons> Or in the Log portion of the GUI if you’re using that
13:06:43 <Bish> o right i totally forgot that thing is interactive
13:06:49 <sethsimmons> Yup 🙂
13:07:29 <Bish> that worked!
13:07:44 <Bish> but the onion node is not there :[
13:08:35 <Bish> xmkwypann4ly64gh.onion:18081
13:09:20 <Bish> or atleast it fails to send it
13:10:06 <Bish> can i somehow test if the tx proxy will work?
13:14:50 <sethsimmons> Send a transaction over it and wait 3-4m, if it’s still not visible on an explorer it isn’t working
13:52:16 <ErCiccione[m]> can somebody voice my irc handle in #monero-dev?
13:53:32 <ErCiccione[m]> inge- thanks, but they should voice ErCiccione[irc]
13:53:36 <Inge-> oh
13:54:43 <ErCiccione[m]> i have to resolve a problem with my matrix bridge, that's why that [m] user looks voiced, but i cannot write anyway. I'm using an irc client with [irc]
14:33:52 <Inge-> Can someone also voice ullbeking ?
14:34:06 <Inge-> (in here)
14:34:33 <ullbeking> thank you Inge- and moneromooo !
14:39:14 <ullbeking> i'm using the monerujo wallet on an Android phone.  it's currently spinning with a message, "Wrapping things up... This can take a while!"  It's been about an hour or more, so far.  How long should I wait?
14:44:43 <Bish> ullbeking: im killing that app frequently because it hangs :p
14:44:57 <Bish> are u running your own node?
14:45:14 <ullbeking> Bish: does killing it cause any data corruption?  and no, i'm not running my own node.
14:47:12 <Bish> what "stage" is your app in? have you entered your wallet?
14:47:17 <Bish> is it trying to refresh your wallet
14:47:55 <Bish> as long as you write down your 25 words, there i no data that can be lost (except for receive addresses maybe?)
14:48:07 <ullbeking> i killed it and restarted it, and it connected to the node it was on before.  my wallet is now refreshed ok, it seems.
14:48:29 <Bish> i made the same experiences as you, monejuro sucks ass, or rather the public nodes do
14:48:46 <Bish> that's why i spawned up my own node, and it's much quicker like that
14:49:35 <ullbeking> does it still hang/need restarting when you run your own node?  in other words, it's possible that the problem is that monejuro doesn't handle connection blips very well?
14:50:15 <Bish> i think it's not monejuro failing, but that bad performance of the public nodes
14:50:20 <Bish> maybe the public nodes are very busy
14:51:11 <Bish> i can try to tunnel you mine, if you'd like, but i need to figure out ssl then
14:51:50 <ullbeking> it's not necessary, but thank you.
14:52:06 <ullbeking> i'm still trying to learn monero and perhaps setting up my own node will be good experience.
14:52:17 <Bish> long story short: monejuro works fine with your own node in local network
14:52:40 <Bish> i think when you use docker setting up a node is a one liner
14:54:47 <selsta> It is likely that some people setup public nodes that intentionally fail just for the sake of it. And to record IP addresses.
14:55:07 <selsta> So using your own node is recommended, or a more "trusted" remote node.
15:08:35 <ullbeking> thank you Bish and selsta for your advice
15:15:13 <ullbeking> Bish: on a related topic, have you got experience in setting up TLS?
15:32:46 <Bish> no, but i guess i just say "here be certificate"
15:32:57 <Bish> for my local thing i deactivated ssl
15:33:13 <Bish> sethsimmons: why would anyone do that
15:33:23 <Bish> i mean if you can steal coins, maybe
15:55:15 <Bish> anyone here with a great business idea?
15:55:24 <Bish> i want to program things
15:55:37 <donkeydonkey[m]> what do you program?
15:55:53 <Bish> errything
15:56:16 <Bish> doesn't matter, but i want a startup, which earns money :[
15:56:30 <gingeropolous> people like to make money
15:57:17 <donkeydonkey[m]> what area of things are you interested in? do you have some examples
15:57:50 <xmrmatterbridge> <bobbyaxe21> Make a payment processor that is compatible with monero and allows for subscription services
15:58:04 <Bish> well.. my current job is web developer, cloud and stuff
15:58:19 <moneromooo> Take primo, and bundle it into an easy to use hosted thingie.
15:58:21 <Bish> but what got me into computers 15+ years ago was hw-close, security stuff
15:58:27 <moneromooo> And share revenue.
15:59:06 <Bish> what is primo?
15:59:16 <donkeydonkey[m]> <xmrmatterbridge "<bobbyaxe21> Make a payment proc"> im working on something like that for my vegetable see company
16:00:58 <xmrmatterbridge> <bobbyaxe21> Vegetable see company?
16:01:27 <moneromooo> Primo is software which uses monero mining to pay for access (eg, website access). See https://repo.getmonero.org/selene/primo
16:02:39 <donkeydonkey[m]> <xmrmatterbridge "<bobbyaxe21> Vegetable see compa"> i work with regional grower / breeders to get real food that tastes great and is not industrial. we contract local growers and pack seeds and sell online.
16:02:54 <moneromooo> Using it alone is chicken and egg, so the way is to allow a user to mine instead of ads.
16:02:56 <donkeydonkey[m]> saving seeds is breeding seeds
16:03:16 <moneromooo> Most poeple get ads, unless/until they install the FF addon to mine instead.
16:04:39 <Bish> donkeydonkey[m]: i wanted to pitch something like that, is it working well?
16:05:10 <Bish> moneromooo: so it's a browserminer?
16:05:15 <moneromooo> Yes.
16:05:53 <Bish> well and how do i get installs?
16:06:19 <Bish> browsermining only makes sense if people do it the whole day, it doesn't make sense for individual websites
16:06:44 <donkeydonkey[m]> <Bish "donkeydonkey: i wanted to pitch "> just getting going with it. i prefer to code in TS with node and react. but i wrote my seed company software in Rails a few years ago, so im working on getting payments with monero in right now. having the rails server talk to the wallet RPC. going back and forth on designs a bit.
16:07:24 <moneromooo> Installing the plugin's a bit annoying IIRC. Instructions are in the README, I believe.
16:07:38 <moneromooo> Installing the web server's also in the README.
16:08:01 <Bish> but how do you get people to install a browserminer on their pc?
16:08:16 <Bish> you could go with botnets and stuff but i rather not go to jail
16:08:33 <moneromooo> You link them to the README ?
16:08:51 <Bish> which readme o_o
16:08:51 <moneromooo> Or you make it easier, since it's really geared towards coders.
16:09:04 <moneromooo> Alright, I think I'll give up now :)
16:09:24 <Bish> ;; no i wanna know
16:09:34 <Bish> i still don't know what "primo" is
16:09:35 <moneromooo> The Primo README
16:09:42 <moneromooo> <@moneromooo> Primo is software which uses monero mining to pay for access (eg, website access). See https://repo.getmonero.org/selene/primo
16:09:49 <Bish> ahhhhh
16:10:38 <Bish> that's interesting
16:10:57 <Bish> can you explain a usecase though, why would i want this?
16:11:40 <Bish> like.. i give website owners an api, which tells them which user pays their visit with a fee?
16:11:57 <moneromooo> Example 1: you run medium or whatever, and offer people blog space. You put ads on that site. You can use primo to let people mine for you instead of ads. If they mined enough, you omit ads from their pages.
16:11:58 <Bish> and then "forbid" to use advertisements?
16:12:13 <Bish> hm, that's cool
16:12:25 <Bish> okay, sold
16:12:29 <Bish> maybe i'll
16:12:56 <moneromooo> Example 2: you make a patreon style webiste. People register on it to receive donations. You run primo on the server, and people who want to donate select who they want to donate to, and donate in mining rather than by sending money.
16:13:23 <Bish> yeah i had that exact same idea, when i got into monero though
16:13:28 <Bish> something like flattr
16:13:34 <Bish> if you consume art, you give them points
16:13:44 <moneromooo> Example 3 (requires coding on the BT side): you make a bittorrent server which only serves people who mine for you.
16:13:44 <Bish> and your mined money will get split between the "artists"
16:14:08 <Bish> thats sounds like police will rape me
16:14:54 <donkeydonkey[m]> <moneromooo "Example 2: you make a patreon st"> thats pretty rad
16:15:12 <moneromooo> BT can be used for legal stuff. Like monero. In fact, the more legal stuff, the better
16:15:35 <moneromooo> If it's not used for legal stuff, it loses its point.
16:15:44 <moneromooo> Everyone needs privacy.
16:15:47 <moneromooo> Well, me anyway.
16:15:52 <moneromooo> So this means everyone :D
16:15:54 <donkeydonkey[m]> privacy is not a crime
16:16:13 <moneromooo> (yet)
16:21:27 <artefact> bittorrent has no privacy. maybe it should die
16:21:35 <Bish> yeah sure, people will download legfal stuff and pay for it with their cpu time
16:22:06 <Bish> why didn't anyone write a completely anonymous bittorrent with built-in tor
16:22:13 <Bish> because it's evil childporn foo?
16:22:15 <donkeydonkey[m]> how much can really be generated in one users browser?
16:22:37 <Bish> i've done browsermining successfully but it got to stressful and i got robbed ( still don't know how)
16:23:17 <artefact> bittorrent over tor is very frowned upon. it's seen as a waste of limited resources
16:23:29 <moneromooo> Well, it's what CDNs do. They have huge pipes etc, and people pay to get them to distribute their stuff.
16:23:55 <moneromooo> Admittedly, it's distributors that pay, not users, so nevermind.
16:27:34 <Bish> can you answer why nobody has created a completely anonymous bittorrent?
16:28:19 <moneromooo> Me ? No idea. I don't know much about how it works internally.
16:28:52 <Bish> well, bittorrent ist just, split a file and distribute it
16:29:02 <Bish> and if you download you also upload
16:29:11 <Bish> which brings you in legal trouble if you download the latest lego batman
16:29:43 <Bish> if you would create a tor/bittorrent mix, where only those can join who mine
16:29:54 <Bish> childpornusers would mine the hell out of your wallet
16:30:01 <artefact> BT is a bit more complicated than that.
16:30:09 <Bish> artefact: how so
16:30:55 <artefact> "and if you download you also upload" -> no, that's up to clients
16:30:56 <moneromooo> Maybe. But criminals can use anything.
16:31:56 <Bish> artefact: well but that's not really complicated
16:32:00 <moneromooo> So we get to find another system where micropayments can be used.
16:32:37 <moneromooo> Paying tor exit nodes was another, but that might go under the same argument you just had.
16:33:05 <artefact> you're forgetting the whole part that does peer discovery. it's far from trivial
16:34:33 <Bish> well, yah okay
16:35:27 <algo_max[m]> bauhauspen:
16:36:31 <algo_max[m]> bauhauspen: only know that the coinbase and binance debit cards don't support monero...
16:38:16 <bauhauspen[m]> I guess it makes sense to use an intermediary currency betwern your fiat & true-crypto
16:39:39 <Bish> thanks for the ideas
16:39:55 <Bish> i won't get to it shortly, but maybe when im unemployed for a year or smth
16:40:19 <Bish> who is the main-idea-giver of monero by the way, is it you moneromooo ?
16:40:38 <donkeydonkey[m]> <bauhauspen[m] "I guess it makes sense to use an"> usdc?
16:43:18 <moneromooo> If you mean who started it, it's a team of unknown people and CZ.
16:43:47 <moneromooo> And Bytecoin, a massive but clever scam, was its first implementation.
16:44:04 <Bish> what was scammy about that, i forgot
16:46:42 <moneromooo> They had a huge premine (> 80% IIRC) and took steps to hide it.
16:47:54 <Bish> well, is that scam, i don't know
16:48:49 <moneromooo> It is.
16:50:40 <Bish> if they try to hide it it's a bit mean, but i wouldn't say it's a scam
16:50:48 <Bish> and karma will judge them
16:51:08 <Bish> it's not worth a dime as a result, isn't that true?
17:06:38 <needmoney90> They backdated their whitepaper, claimed they had been around for two years, premine 82% of the entire supply, and lied about it when confronted. The entire reason for existence, their investment thesis, public presence, marketing pushes, etc were all designed around duping the public into believing their lie.
17:07:38 <needmoney90> There is zero question about whether they are scammers
17:08:37 <hyc> CZ was one of the original devs, why did people still trust him with boolberry?
17:08:58 <needmoney90> Please note the 'backdating the whitepaper' part, explicitly lying on their *whitepaper* about the creation date to mask the 82% premine
17:09:06 <fluffypony> hyc: nobody knew he was one of the original devs
17:09:16 <fluffypony> that only came out much later
17:09:20 <hyc> ah
17:09:32 <fluffypony> well, in fact, it was only SUSPECTED months down the line, like late 2014
17:09:36 <fluffypony> and only confirmed in like 2016 finally
17:10:29 <needmoney90> If you hear that the devs backdated their whitepaper to cover up an 82% premine in a supposed privacy coin, and subsequently defend that behavior as not scammy, you either have the critical thinking skills of a potato, or you're actively involved in the scam.
17:10:39 <fluffypony> needmoney90: agreed
17:10:43 <fluffypony> Bish: if you setup a company today with 80% of the shares in your name, but pretend that the company has existed for 4 years and the 80% is owned by a lot of people, and THEN try to sell the remaining 20% to inflate the value of your 80% that is fraudulent
17:13:15 <asymptotically> lol boolberry and zano. dude needs to spend all of his riches on someone that can come up with a good name
17:14:12 <Bish> well, but it's not a company is it
17:14:13 <needmoney90> If I recall, they spun up a dozen projects with dumb names like morono in an attempt to drown out attention on us
17:14:33 * needmoney90 would devoice bish at this point if he was mod
17:14:52 <Bish> oh sorry, my intention is not to maake you made, i didn't know you're that much involved
17:14:57 <Bish> it's certainly not good behaviour
17:15:00 <moneromooo> And I thought I was harsh sometimes :D
17:15:02 <asymptotically> yeah, i think the goal was to make monero look like yet another forknote
17:15:14 <needmoney90> The names were bad intentionally
17:15:25 <needmoney90> I don't believe their initial plan was to actually continue developing any
17:15:30 <moneromooo> Forknote came much later IIRC.
17:15:35 <needmoney90> They even made a build-a-cryptonote site
17:16:52 <needmoney90> So, if lying on your literal whitepaper to cover up an 82% premine isn't considered a scam to you, what exactly is?
17:17:06 <needmoney90> Because that's so far over the line that it's ridiculous to see you defending it still
17:17:41 <moneromooo> In fairness, he's not defending, just not agreeing.
17:18:00 <moneromooo> ie, not convinced yet, but not convinced of the opposite either.
17:18:46 <needmoney90> 'it's not a company' does not feel like an argument made in good faith, when presented with the initial statement 'they backdated their whitepaper to cover up an 82% premine'
17:18:59 <Bish> well, are coins actually considered property by any countries law?
17:19:25 <needmoney90> Why does that matter
17:20:15 <needmoney90> These people lied on their prospectus to potential investors, intentionally covering up a massive premeditated premine, and you're asking whether coins are considered property?
17:20:21 <moneromooo> OK, looking for a technicality, I think you're right now ^_^
17:20:54 <needmoney90> It was obvious from the moment he argued it wasn't a company, therefore....not a scam? I guess?
17:21:07 <Bish> it does matter, because if you use official terms like "fraud" you should be talking aabout official things
17:21:31 <Bish> if coins aren't official "things", it's out of context isn't it? i mean their fraud didn.t work did it?
17:22:47 <moneromooo> I would not quite say it was. I mean, I often look for a counterargument to any argument, and if a metaphor seems to be to be too far to apply, I'll point it out. Doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong.
17:23:15 <Bish> if i steal someones wallet by shouldersurfing, could anyone sue me for that?
17:23:20 <kinghat[m]> BT over i2p is a regular thing but its slow.
17:23:32 <Bish> kinghat[m]: that's why you pay for it so it's fast :]
17:23:34 <Bish> with coins
17:23:34 <needmoney90> I would certainly call you a thief
17:23:35 <kinghat[m]> limewire dev created muwire for i2p
17:23:44 <Bish> that's myidea™
17:23:45 <manifest> Bish: if you steal someones creditcard info the same way?
17:23:47 <kinghat[m]> pay for what?
17:23:55 <Bish> manifest: yes, then it is, i guess
17:24:01 <Bish> kinghat[m]: fast downloads
17:24:13 <kinghat[m]> you cant pay for fast downloads on i2p
17:24:22 <Bish> yeah, but with realmoney, don't you?
17:24:31 <kinghat[m]> no
17:24:38 <Bish> well it's still a centralized service
17:24:44 <Bish> i figure
17:25:14 <kinghat[m]> i2p and BT !== centralized
17:25:54 <needmoney90> Do you know the definition of fraud, bish?
17:25:56 <needmoney90> I'm curious
17:26:01 <needmoney90> Because it does not seem you do.
17:26:46 <Bish> needmoney90: no i don't, and i think that will vary from country, also
17:26:54 <selsta> i2p
17:26:57 <needmoney90> Not legally.
17:26:59 <needmoney90> The definition
17:27:01 <needmoney90> In English
17:27:04 <needmoney90> Fraud is a word
17:27:09 * selsta wrong window
17:27:13 <needmoney90> Saying they are scammers and frauds is 100% accurate
17:27:54 <needmoney90> Bytecoin is a scam, straight up, no caveats
17:28:15 <needmoney90> The developers are frauds.
17:28:15 <Bish> yeah i was on the legal trip, sure it is fraud in a non legal sense, i guess
17:28:44 <needmoney90> Saying 'well they can't be prosecuted' as a defense to calling them scammers is defending their scamming.
17:29:16 <needmoney90> It's not "I guess", there is zero ambiguity here
17:29:33 <Lovera[m]> Hi guys, the fireice list of leak IP addresses is because some txs stucks or all there is fake?
17:29:33 <Lovera[m]> I know that guy all time talk s***about Monero.
17:29:48 <selsta> He has setup nodes that drop transactions.
17:29:54 <Bish> sorry i didn't know yu had that hard feelings about it, it's fraud!
17:30:01 <selsta> Use Tor / I2P / VPN if you want to protect your IP address.
17:30:06 <Bish> and i love monero
17:30:12 <needmoney90> It's not a question of whether I have hard feelings
17:30:17 <needmoney90> Call scammers scammers
17:30:30 <Lovera[m]> <selsta "He has setup nodes that drop tra"> Mmm understand easy...  that guy really hate Monero....
17:30:45 <needmoney90> If I see people defending scammers, I will call them out for it. Scammers are bad.
17:31:10 <selsta> FWIW even if he did not do this, it is likely that some other chainanalysis company / agency does the same
17:33:02 <Bish> i don't defend them, i was just wondering
17:33:19 <Bish> and as it looks to be their scam didnn't work, so why bother
17:33:20 * Bish ducks
17:33:30 <selsta> though it did work
17:33:47 <moneromooo> Every sucker who lost money to them... lost money.
17:33:56 <moneromooo> So "didn't work" is pretty callous.
17:34:20 <moneromooo> Now it's not like I have a list.
17:37:34 <Bish> okay, as it seems i just have no clue and waste your time, sorry
17:37:47 <Bish> thanks for the business-ideas
17:37:53 <moneromooo> Good luck :)
17:38:10 <moneromooo> (try not to make the implementation scammy by mistake :P)
17:38:20 <Bish> i'd never scam (in that way)
17:38:32 <Bish> like, openly say something which isn't true
17:38:54 <Bish> may i call it "politician scam" ?
18:33:52 <needmoney90> This isn't about politics, *They lied about their creation date in their whitepaper by **two years** to premine 82% of the future supply*
18:34:12 <needmoney90> that is straight up fraudulent, not 'politics'
18:35:21 <needmoney90> Why do you keep trying to minimize any sort of blame on blatant scammers? "Its not fraudulent, its just politician speak" is ridiculous
18:35:48 <Bish> you keep saying you're not emotionally involved :D but in the last thing i said i didnn't minimize anything
18:36:01 <Bish> i just called the way they scammed "political scammed" as neologism
18:36:11 <Bish> as in, "saying something they can't keep up with"
18:36:13 <needmoney90> I see you have the critical thinking skills of a potato.
18:36:39 <needmoney90> Or are actively involved with the scammers :/
18:36:45 <Bish> ohyeah, that must be it
18:36:55 <needmoney90> one or the other, yes.
18:37:03 <Bish> you got me
18:37:07 <hyc> or the moral foundations of a turnip
18:37:18 <needmoney90> I stand corrected, a third option has presented itself
18:38:02 <lza_menace> nice watch, fluffypony
18:40:52 <Bish> wtf, it was meant as a joke
18:40:53 <Bish> can u chill
18:42:02 <needmoney90> ah yes, attempting to defend or deflect blame from blatant scammers for nearly two hours now. Good joke man, you got me.
18:42:17 <needmoney90> Really had me going there
18:42:31 <hyc> oh, is it time to laugh now? almost missed that
18:42:43 <Bish> whew, okay
18:44:28 <Bish> needmoney90: i stoped like an hour ago, but you kept it going btw
18:44:52 <Bish> i just tried to creat a funny name for that "kind" of scamming, im really sorry you didn't find it to be funny
18:45:00 <moneromooo> That really looks like you've stopped :)
18:45:01 <Bish> sorry, please don't hang me
18:45:22 <Bish> wel.. he started again with "this isnt about politics blabla" like it wasn't obvious i wasn't serious
18:45:26 <needmoney90> yes, clearly *I* am the one who keeps pushing the issue...
18:45:41 <moneromooo> It was definitely non obvious, assuming you were.
18:47:05 <Bish> i was serious about that fact that i would never do such a thing, but who on earth would call that political scam and mean it
18:47:14 <Bish> either way, it's scam and i like monero.. can i say that?
18:47:36 <moneromooo> oh ffs... time for /ignore
18:48:08 <Bish> okay, i can't, wtf
18:48:53 <Bish> too bad moneromooo really often helped me, thank you for that, in case you really ignored me
18:48:56 <Bish> not yet
18:53:25 <gingeropolous> the whitepaper lie is one thing. the fact that they shipped a deoptimized miner is much stronger evidence imo
18:53:59 <gingeropolous> a deoptimized miner to support the 2 year backlog. and they thought they could be so tricky .... when its open source.
18:54:12 <gingeropolous> like, they must've known the jig would be up at some point.
18:55:26 <sgp_> they probably figured people would figure out too late
18:58:02 <needmoney90> gingeropolous I consider the deoptimized miner and the 2-year premine to be equivalent, I was only going to bring it up if the premine was questioned (since it is the smoking gun)
18:58:15 <needmoney90> though the backdated whitepaper is also a smoking gun
18:58:52 <rehrar> lol what the heck?
18:59:02 <gingeropolous> well, there's a smoking gun and then a confluence of facts, a preponderance of evidence.
19:03:05 <needmoney90> rehrar hm?
19:09:44 <Bish> does xmr.to have the 0.1 instant-sent-out limit because of double-spend?
19:15:12 <gingeropolous> probably
19:23:40 <Bish> is that a realistic threat?
19:26:05 <gingeropolous> 0.1 is quite a bit worth of bitcoin at this point aint it?
19:26:38 <gingeropolous> double-spends are always a threat. thats why ppl wait for confirmations with larger txs
19:26:53 <gingeropolous> even with the bitcorns
19:29:18 <Bish> gingeropolous: that's why i ask, xmr.to is kinda quick
20:18:50 <xmrmatterbridge> <bobbyaxe21> Any legitimacy behind this?  https://monero-badcaca.net/
20:27:48 <sethsimmons> <xmrmatterbridge "<bobbyaxe21> Any legitimacy behi"> No, lots of comments on Reddit explaining it.
20:28:01 <sethsimmons> https://reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/johg19/_/gb86ju4/?context=1
20:28:39 <sethsimmons> Some more comments from myself and others here:
20:28:39 <sethsimmons> https://twitter.com/sethisimmons/status/1324429134701957122?s=21
20:42:27 <sgp_> what do you mean by "there will be a response" sethsimmons?
20:44:53 <sech1> Reddit response was enough imho
20:45:25 <selsta> yea afaik debruyne will do a post on reddit once the new release is out
20:45:31 <dEBRUYNE> The idea is just a brief reddit thread together with the release
20:45:44 <dEBRUYNE> Just to explain what these nodes are/were doing, how users were impacted, and what mitigations are implemented
20:45:47 <sech1> that "attack" and especcially the "attacker" don't deserve more than a reddit post
20:46:13 <dEBRUYNE> sech1: yeah will be confined to reddit
20:46:39 <sech1> I bet half of those published IPs are not the original sender nodes thanks to Dandelion++
20:47:06 <dEBRUYNE> Hence my usage of 'potential' or 'possible'
20:47:41 <sech1> even if Sybil attacks get 50% of incoming connections on each good node, it still leaves the other 50% for Dandelion++ to work with
20:49:18 <sech1> I'm not sure though how exactly D++ works when tx is dropped in stem phase. Does the original node broadcast it again or is it the last node in the stem chain?
20:49:25 <sech1> moneromooo vtnerd ^
20:49:55 <sech1> if it's the original node then dropping tx on spy nodes can be pretty efficient
20:50:47 <moneromooo> The original node will broadcast it after a random timeout. As will anyone else that got it before it got dropped, if any.
20:51:06 <sech1> so all nodes will broadcast it with random intervals, very smart
20:51:11 <moneromooo> So whether the original node broadcasts it first depends on whether it picked a smaller timeout.
20:51:17 <sech1> so even tx path can't be restored from that data
20:51:37 <sech1> that gives plausible deniability for this kind of Sybil attack
20:55:57 <sgp_> The shorter the response the better imo
20:56:20 <sgp_> No serious person will pay attention to something that they can't verify
20:59:46 <sech1> on the other hand, if attacker nodes see that only 1 node broadcasted the dropped tx after 3-4 minutes they can conclude it was that node
21:00:11 <sech1> still it's impossible to match tx <-> IP for all transactions
21:14:22 <kinghat[m]> https://www.wired.com/story/feds-seize-billion-stolen-silk-road-bitcoin/