03:07:03 <majonyemima[m]> Is anyone on here willing to answer some newbie logistics questions?  I need to set up Ubuntu on a usb stick for Monero activity for a Win10 on a laptop.  May switch Win10 to fedora, but I really have no clue what I’m doing.  I just know I strongly dislike Win10.
03:07:31 <majonyemima[m]> A bootable usb
03:15:33 <gingeropolous> majonyemima[m], there are lots of good web tutorials out there for this.. look for "live USB"
03:15:49 <gingeropolous> i even think the ubuntu site has a good walk through
03:37:43 <majonyemima[m]> <gingeropolous "majonyemima, there are lots of g"> Yes, I know and they are very helpful.  I just have additional questions that specifically have to do with Monero activities that might affect the hardware that I would buy and the order in which I would do things.
03:41:08 <majonyemima[m]> Would I need more than one memory stick?  If so, how much memory would it need to have?  I don’t want to have to manage several.
03:44:41 <majonyemima[m]> Which is more advisable for Monero?  Ubuntu?  Or Fedora?  Does Fedora need Tor browser?  Does having a bootable usb achieve the same as airgapping?  Where would Tails or Whonix come into the scene?  DM might be better.
03:47:18 <gingeropolous> naw, dms aren't better.
03:48:58 <gingeropolous> so in an ideal situation you'd have 2 computers. 1 computer handles the blockchain and always has monero running. the other computer has your keys and you can use a live USB on that second machine to achieve some air gappedness
03:49:48 <gingeropolous> if you *just* use a live USB on a single PC, you'd have to connect to a remote node. I mean, you *can* run monerod on a live USB, it'll just be slow
03:50:16 <gingeropolous> sure, you could get fancy and mount a SSD that is accesible to the live USB, but ive never done that.
03:50:25 <gingeropolous> i mean, it should be possible
03:51:23 <gingeropolous> i don't have good answers to anything after: "Which is more advisable for Monero?"
03:51:57 <gingeropolous> you want a distro thats gonna be maintained and have security patches, thats for sure
04:13:02 <viperperidot[m]> Anyone who maintains the getmonero.org website on this channel or would that be the -dev channel?
04:21:30 <gingeropolous> both. whats up?
04:31:45 <viperperidot[m]> I submitted an issue on the website GitHub requesting that the blockchain.raw download file be updated, just wanted to make sure that was the appropriate way to go about asking for that or is there something different I should do like e-mailing someone?
04:41:39 <viperperidot[m]>  * gingeropolous: I submitted an issue on the website GitHub requesting that the blockchain.raw download file be updated, just wanted to make sure that was the appropriate way to go about asking for that or is there something different I should do like e-mailing someone?
04:58:16 <riceandbeans> What do you guys think of Tari?
07:09:18 <majonyemima[m]> <gingeropolous "naw, dms aren't better."> Thanks.  Good to know.
07:28:52 <majonyemima[m]> <gingeropolous "so in an ideal situation you'd h"> That actually makes sense.  I imagine the same would be said for bitcoin, though I understand that Monero is it’s own development.  What I’m wondering is how much memory would that usb stick need to be, presuming that you have a computer dedicated to that?  I wouldn’t run a node out of external hardware.
07:29:46 <majonyemima[m]> <riceandbeans "What do you guys think of Tari?"> What is Tari?  What’s it for, I mean?
07:40:09 <majonyemima[m]> <gingeropolous "sure, you could get fancy and mo"> I like to keep things simple.  That’s just another piece of hardware to have and to carry around.  But as of now that would be the only way to run your own node without having an entire computer?  So, if a person has only one computer, the connection would have to be over a remote node.
11:01:54 <d4ndo[m]> Is Incognito pDEX a scam?
12:10:26 <rah> so it seems the crashing of my monerod is a heisenbug; changing ../Linux/release-v0.17/release/bin/monerod to ../Linux/release-v0.17/debug/bin/monerod and it no longer crashes
15:36:48 <burp> not necessarily
15:37:02 <burp> have had that plenty of times, that a debug release doesn't crash, but the optimized does
15:37:46 <burp> typically means some unsafe thing is being done, and the optimization then causes trouble
17:14:07 <Mochi101> Can someone give Copenhagen_Bram a +v ( fluffypony )
17:14:25 <moneromooo> Oh, I thought you were a mod here. Sorry, I directed Bran to you :)
17:14:30 <Mochi101> and maybe me a +o since I was disconnected
17:14:35 <Mochi101> no worries
17:14:47 <Mochi101> I was temporarily moneromooo.
17:15:19 <Mochi101> I was disconnected though.
17:16:10 <Mochi101> binaryFate
17:17:15 <p3rL> .btcmempool
17:17:30 <p3rL> 1sat/byte will take about an year to confirmed
17:19:13 <copenhagen_bram[> testing 1 2 3
17:19:27 <copenhagen_bram[> ok my matrix account isn't muted
17:19:34 <copenhagen_bram[> hello everyone
17:19:58 <Mochi101> hello
17:20:15 <p3rL> Mochi101 i will charge only 5 XMR / month to give voice to new users
17:21:19 <copenhagen_bram[> Does anyone here use bisq? Or do you prefer something like localmonero for buying or selling monero?
17:21:43 <Mochi101> Nobody here actually sells monero
17:21:46 <Mochi101> :D
17:22:14 <copenhagen_bram[> lol
17:22:41 <p3rL> i am always ready to sell at 500$/xmr
17:22:49 <Mochi101> but both are good... depends on your situation
17:24:08 <copenhagen_bram[> I wonder if Bisq works on Tails OS
17:32:29 <hyc> I tried to use bisq. it locked up my machine and I had to reboot.
17:32:55 <kinghat[m]> sooooo many times that happened to me
17:33:06 <hyc> followed shortly by an uninstall and /me says forget it
17:33:06 <kinghat[m]> i havent touched it in like a year though
17:34:47 <hyc> this was a few months ago, less than a year I think
17:36:26 <copenhagen_bram[> What's localmonero like?
17:38:32 <copenhagen_bram[> Oh and I still hope my IRC account will be unmuted. I just realized the topic in the Matrix room is out of date.
17:40:39 <Inge-> "that was a few months ago... less than a year... I think ..."
18:23:13 <Copenhagen_Bram> hello?
18:23:19 <Copenhagen_Bram> oh yay I can talk now
18:44:42 <marmulak> you can
19:21:04 <kinghat[m]> https://reason.com/2020/10/28/need-proof-that-encryption-backdoors-lead-to-hacking-it-happened-to-our-own-government/
20:09:54 <nioc> kinghat the news aggregating service
20:11:18 <kinghat[m]> I do it for the coin 👌
21:51:58 <monerouser1144> I read Riccardo Spagni's interview about Monero vs BTC Lightning Network privacy and I still am unclear about what the situation might look like in the next 1-2 years http://beincrypto.com/about-privacy-on-monero-and-lightning-interview-with-riccardo-spagni/
21:52:48 <yanmaani> How come Monero doesn't encrypt p2p connections? It'd make MITM much harder, not to say impossible.
21:53:27 <yanmaani> Instead of saying "hey there's a node at 1.2.3.4:5678", you'd say "hey there's a node at 1.2.3.4:5678 with public key X". And the bootstrap nodes would likewise have such key.
21:59:49 <moneromooo> It would make MITM about the same since nodes are anonymous. You wouldn't want long lived keys for fingerprinting either.
21:59:50 <moneromooo> There was a patch for this somewhere on github.
22:00:08 <moneromooo> IIRC SSL was deemed too heavy. There might have been other arguments.
22:03:17 <yanmaani> moneromooo: No, MITM would be harder.
22:03:23 <yanmaani> Surely the fingerprinting isn't worse than by IP?
22:03:40 <yanmaani> Since the node always knows its public IP, couldn't it just lock 1 key = 1 ip:port combination?
22:05:07 <moneromooo> And then... are you suggesting nodes remember which IP had which key ?
22:05:49 <artefact> what's the point of encryption between nodes?
22:05:53 <moneromooo> That's going to make nodes on dynamic IPs being rejected (tyough I suppose only once monero becomes widely used).
22:06:06 <moneromooo> It prevents passive spying.
22:06:44 <moneromooo> So if you have noise traffic, you can hide which txes (if any) you send other peers (from your ISP or nodes in the middle).
22:07:02 <artefact> but you could still run a node yourself (or pretend to) and get the same packets from the p2p network, mostly
22:07:07 <moneromooo> Yes.
22:09:52 <yanmaani> moneromooo: Instead of storing (IP, port) tuples, you store (IP, port, key) tuples.
22:09:52 <yanmaani> More realistically, you could just store the last IP. If the IP has changed, wipe the key.
22:09:52 <yanmaani> artefact: dragnet surveillance by ISPs. Dandellion is some protection against Sybil attacks IIRC.
22:09:52 <yanmaani> moneromooo: if you're on a dynamic IP, you'll just get a new key each connection. it'll make you more outbound heavy is all.
22:10:20 <artefact> use tor/i2p with obfsuscation, simple encryption won't help you much
22:10:45 <moneromooo> I mean Alice has Key Ka on IP Ia. Her IP changes. Bob gets her previous IP.
22:11:31 <moneromooo> And nodes have to store *all* keys, otherwise they've got no idea if it's the same as before if htey connect to the same IP.
22:11:55 <moneromooo> And if they don't, it's essentially opportunistic encryption, no strength against active MITM.
22:12:50 <moneromooo> It also prevents anyone from using monerod from a cafe or other places which offer public access.
22:31:20 <kinghat[m]> oh boy... https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/10/in-a-first-researchers-extract-secret-key-used-to-encrypt-intel-cpu-code/
22:34:57 <yanmaani> moneromooo: No
22:35:18 <yanmaani> moneromooo: Bob gets her previous IP. He can't connect to it, because nothing is listening there. Situation is the same as before.
22:35:51 <yanmaani> If Alice is in a cafe, she still has her node:key list to rely on. Nobody will open connections to her, but she can open connections to others.
22:35:59 <moneromooo> I don't understand.
22:36:10 <moneromooo> Oh. I see.
22:36:23 <moneromooo> I meant "gets assigned her previous IP", not "gets her IP in a peer list".
23:09:45 <yanmaani> moneromooo: Then he'll just get a bunch of random connections
23:09:52 <yanmaani> he'll tell them "sorry, wrong key"
23:10:06 <yanmaani> and they'll drop the node