00:16:31 <duso> Guess I need to read the whitepaper. My node sends multiple 'outputs' to be mined into the next block for the transactions, to a various number of ring partners. How does it determine an old output?
00:18:31 <selsta> duso: you might want to check out the ring signature part here: https://masteringmonero.com
00:18:37 <selsta> (it’s a free book)
00:21:39 <moneromooo> It's arbitrary, it considers anything > 1 month old to be old. It's a bit trigger happy I think.
02:09:22 <Copenhagen_Bram> Hello!
02:15:25 <Copenhagen_Bram> So I'm getting repeated messages of "Ask for LOCKING for device  in thread" "Device UNLOCKed" "Device LOCKed:
02:15:37 <Copenhagen_Bram> It really spams up the terminal I opened monero-wallet-gui in
02:16:53 <selsta> Copenhagen_Bram: Settings -> Log -> Turn log level to 0
02:17:13 <Copenhagen_Bram> oh
02:17:35 <Copenhagen_Bram> And then my Trezor says "Do you really want to start refresh?"
02:17:36 <selsta> It should be 0 at default. Did you change it?
02:17:40 <Copenhagen_Bram> What does that mean?
02:17:50 <Copenhagen_Bram> Yeah I changed it. I changed it back, thinks.
02:17:53 <Copenhagen_Bram> thanks*
02:17:54 <selsta> You have to accept this to do a wallet refresh.
02:18:00 <Copenhagen_Bram> Okay.
02:18:13 <Copenhagen_Bram> Last time I hit accept though, my Trezor froze up and Monero crashed.
02:18:25 <Copenhagen_Bram> Ok it didn't do that this time
02:18:50 <Copenhagen_Bram> Hmm, my trezor is... refreshing?
02:18:54 <Copenhagen_Bram> What's it doing?
02:19:14 <Copenhagen_Bram> it's got some kind of loading bar or something on it
02:20:22 <selsta> I don’t know what it does exactly, afaik syncs key images or so
02:21:18 <Copenhagen_Bram> Hmm
02:22:19 <Copenhagen_Bram> Is it possible to update a Trezor anonymously, over Tor or something, without sending unique information to Trezor's website?
02:22:29 <selsta> Firmware?
02:22:36 <Copenhagen_Bram> Yeah, update the firmware
02:22:45 <Copenhagen_Bram> And sorry for asking Trezor questions here. But Telegram sucks.
02:26:05 <selsta> Should be possible over Tor?
02:38:26 <Copenhagen_Bram> That would be nice lol
02:38:29 <Copenhagen_Bram> Thanks
02:39:43 <selsta> I never tried it but don’t see why it should not work.
02:39:55 <selsta> Though the Tor browser most likely won’t work due to disabled USB stuff.
02:43:09 <Copenhagen_Bram> You can go into the about:config and tell it to not use a proxy for 127.0.0.1 and then it can connect to the Trezor bridge
02:49:06 <Copenhagen_Bram> I think I noticed once that the Monero CLI seems to work very well compared to the Bitcoin CLI
02:51:31 <yeahgotit> Hi
02:52:04 <yeahgotit> What exactly happens when `monero-blockchain-prune` finishes its job?
02:52:36 <yeahgotit> Will I get notified somehow? Is it safe to delete the unpruned db in datadir afterwards?
02:53:25 <selsta> I would check if it works first before deleting the old db.
02:53:43 <yeahgotit> Works exactly what?
02:53:47 <yeahgotit> `monerod`?
02:54:37 <selsta> yes
02:54:45 <yeahgotit> Well, after using the utility, should I also run monerod with `--prune-blockchain` flag?
02:54:52 <selsta> not necessary
02:55:09 <yeahgotit> It appears the three are completely different and in the sense of true pruning, only the utility makes sense
02:55:27 <selsta> they basically do the same
02:55:37 <selsta> start monerod and enter `check_blockchain_pruning`
02:55:41 <selsta> to see if it worked
02:56:29 <selsta> adding `--prune-blockchain` can prune existing blockchains but it can not decrease the database size. So it will stay at e.g. 70GB until the pruned blockchain reaches 70GB.
02:57:39 <yeahgotit> So, interally monerod should already distinguish between non-pruned and pruned dbs and it's only for me to check if it caught up with the pruned one?
02:58:10 <yeahgotit> 116 blocks to sync, will take 5 minutes probably
02:59:51 <selsta> yes
03:00:54 <yeahgotit> `Blockchain is not pruned` in green
03:01:16 <yeahgotit> What do I do from here?
03:07:49 <selsta> inside ~/.bitmonero/lmdb
03:07:56 <selsta> how large is your data.mdb file?
03:08:13 <selsta> if correctly pruned it should be ~27GB
03:09:16 <yeahgotit> 21 GiBs currently
03:09:43 <yeahgotit> oh wait
03:10:18 <yeahgotit> ```
03:10:18 <yeahgotit> 91G	./lmdb
03:10:18 <yeahgotit> 21G	./lmdb-pruned
03:10:18 <yeahgotit> ```
03:10:50 <yeahgotit> Yeah, 21
03:11:04 <yeahgotit> So, it's not yet complete, I see
03:11:39 <selsta> looks like it
03:12:09 <yeahgotit> will I get notified when it is?
03:12:52 <selsta> I don’t know, did not use monero-blockchain-pruned yet, though I guess the program should simply exit once finished?
03:12:52 <yeahgotit> Cause there is no % progress in the log, just the messages that the size had increased
03:13:04 <yeahgotit> I'll see tomorrow
03:13:13 <yeahgotit> Been running it for, I don't know, 8 hours maybe
04:39:39 <aaaaaaaaaaaa> Whats the best wallet to use for mobile phones
04:39:45 <aaaaaaaaaaaa> Are mobile wallets even safe?
04:49:11 <jwinterm> aaaaaaaaaaaa, I like monerujo
04:49:21 <jwinterm> but cake is probably way more popular now
04:49:59 <endogenic> seriously?
04:50:46 <endogenic> i havent been keeping up with whether monerujo has been pushing updates but lots of people used it
04:50:46 <d4ndo[m]> I like Monerujo, too. Haven't tested Cake wallet jet.
04:53:13 <d4ndo[m]> There was just a post on reddit about cake wallet. 50k downloads.
05:16:49 <Kronovestan> All time high transactions?
05:53:07 <marmulak> Monerujo is great software
05:53:15 <marmulak> and good Esperanto too
06:17:42 <xmrmatterbridge> <trasherdk> Where is the DNS for Monero version?
06:23:37 <Kronovestan> Are blocks 20 mins now instead of 2 mins?
06:44:47 <xmrmatterbridge> <rbrunner7> Kronovestan: You mean the long wait for block 2205073? Such gaps can happen more or less any time and don't mean something special, basically just "bad luck". The next blocks were good again.
07:40:21 <dixie__flatline[> the only thin monerujo needs is a dark theme.
07:43:19 <dixie__flatline[>  * the only thing monerujo needs is a dark theme.
08:30:22 <Inge-> Monerujo lovers: remember to pass a small donation back when you update to new version, to ensure future development :)
11:06:02 <hyc> Some questions are so stupid you don't even know where to begin https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/j8ih1x/why_monero_they_dont_have_2fa_just_like_other_btc/
11:08:30 <Inge-> This stuff is hard
11:08:57 <hyc> your keys are protected by your passphrase
11:09:13 <hyc> the passphrase encrypts everything - keys, txinfo, etc
11:09:26 <hyc> you can't protect static data with 2FA
11:10:09 <mmxxx[m]> it's probably somebody used to using third party wallets, like electrum
11:11:06 <Inge-> I know how this works. but have been playing with monero since 2017 and can write code. I still have little understanding of how most other cryptocurrencies work
11:11:55 <hyc> does electrum wallet use 2FA? what does it use it for?
11:12:28 <asy> electrum has an interesting 2fa implementation. your wallet becomes a 2/3 multisig, where 1 key is on your computer, 1 is your backup, and 1 is held by a server that signs when it gets a 2fa code
11:12:57 <asy> all of the transactions signed by the 2fa server need to have a donation output as a fee, so maybe we could see how much use it gets
11:12:57 <hyc> aha. so you have to talk to a central server
12:00:33 <binaryFate> Same as bitgo. 2FA is then used for them to accept to co-sign your transaction
12:01:11 <artefact> you can somewhat protect static data with 2fa, but you're always vulnerable to replay attacks
12:02:26 <artefact> eg using a smartcard in challenge/response mode, where the challenge is your password, and you derive an encryption key from the response
13:33:49 <hyc> no.
13:34:10 <hyc> deriving a new encryption key implies that you are continually re-ecnrypting the static data
13:34:16 <hyc> which is preposterous
13:35:57 <tryphe> hyc, even though the guy on reddit probably doesn't know what he's asking, he probably doesn't know there's a password. although it -would- be sorta nice if the wallet passphrase could be a onetime password rather than static, not sure how that could be implemented though.
13:39:54 <artefact> i meant symmetric encryption
13:40:36 <artefact> and i never said it's a new encryption key. challenge/response is deterministic, that's the point
14:29:52 <asy> moneromooo: same reason people choose to be MitM'd by cloudflare
14:30:59 <moneromooo> Or choose to get all their unsuspecting visitors to be MITM'd by cloudflare :/
14:33:30 <john_r365> RE Cloudflare and MITM - presumably that's not cloudflare specific - but an issue with using any Content Delivery Network? What would be the alternative if you're trying to improve the speed of website access for globally distributed audiences?
14:34:20 <moneromooo> Anything that doesn't involve giving them your secret keys :)
14:41:29 <asy> john_r365: they could stick to serving static assets, and the origin server can add hashes for the cdn'd assets to make sure that they aren't being modified
14:41:46 <asy> and if you want to do the compute close to the user, put your own servers there :)
15:02:49 <artefact> cloudflare captcha hell is awful- thankfully now you can use one time tokens instead
15:04:49 <moneromooo> Now primo could do away with all this.
15:45:31 <mmxxx[m]> anyone used the feather wallet to complete a transaction yet?
15:45:52 <marmulak> not I
15:46:07 <moneromooo> Not I.
15:46:22 <mmxxx[m]> why no?
15:46:33 <moneromooo> wino ?
15:46:35 <mmxxx[m]> *not
15:51:34 <marmulak> I don't evevn know how
15:52:13 <kiwi_7> Hi everyone, does anyone know how often the blockchain.raw gets updated? I'm trying to sync the entire blockchain but it is a painstakingly slow process. I already downloaded the blockchain.raw, but it seems to only go up to 1968800
15:52:42 <Inge-> kiwi_7: In general, unless you have poor internet connection, it is faster to just synch the regular way
15:56:23 <kiwi_7> Inge- How fast should I expect? Because it took me more than 3 hours for about 5000 blocks
15:56:53 <moneromooo> Spinning hard disk ?
15:56:58 <kiwi_7> Yes
15:57:12 <moneromooo> Do you have the option to sync to SSD, then copy back to HDD when done ?
15:57:40 <kiwi_7> I don't think so
15:58:23 <kiwi_7> But is the blockchain.raw up to date? Because (at least the initial blocks) seemed to progress at a much higher speed than doing a sync
16:01:16 <selsta> It gets updated weekly or ao
16:01:18 <selsta> so
16:04:27 <Inge-> kiwi_7: well, th earlier blocks were mostly empty and also much smaller transactions... so there is a good while where it is pretty slow and mostly CPU bound
16:04:52 <Inge-> and it also needs to get all the mixins from disk, so a lot of random IO over a larger and larger dataset as you move forward
16:05:00 <Inge-> which is kind of brutal on spinning rust
16:05:13 <kiwi_7> Alright, I do notice that my hard drive is utilized to 98%. Now my question is, what does monerod have to do to sync? Because I was easily able to put the 55GB raw file on my hard disk from the internet in around 2 hours?
16:05:28 <kiwi_7> Thanks for the help guys by the way
16:06:17 <selsta> It verifies the blocks.
16:06:23 <Inge-> it basically needs to validate the transactions - i.e. do the calculations and see that the transactions and blocks are correctly done
16:06:42 <Inge-> you can skip it of course - but that kinda defeats the point of running your own node
16:07:01 <nioc> mmxxx[m]: I have used Feather to receive and send a tx, works well
16:07:35 <kiwi_7> How is verification different from a checksum?
16:08:07 <moneromooo> You'd have to trust whoever made the checksum did not like to you.
16:08:09 <Inge-> well, in simple terms it is the work to calculate the checksum, and comparing it with the provided checksum
16:08:18 <mmxxx[m]> <nioc "mmxxx: I have used Feather to re"> glad to hear. Did you make use of the xmr.to feature?
16:08:38 <nioc> no
16:09:53 <kiwi_7> Alright thank you! Final question: The blockchain.raw file I downloaded contains 1968800 blocks as opposed to 2205358 said by monerod sync, any ideas as to how that happened? I downloaded it from the official source
16:10:11 <binaryFate> xmrto does not serve US. nioc is in US. xmrto does not serve nioc.
16:10:18 <dsc_> Sad!
16:10:46 <shillo> usa is basically north korea
16:10:52 <nioc> sad indeed
16:12:29 <moneromooo> It's just whatever the state was a while back when it was generated. Sounds like more than week.
16:12:40 <moneromooo> Maybe the cron job htat does it died.
16:15:31 <kiwi_7> Hmm it must have died a while ago then haha
16:15:52 <moneromooo> fluffypony: ^ I think that's you ?
16:16:39 <kiwi_7> I think it's from Nov 18, 2019
16:34:01 <neetpill[m]> bros, how much Monero do you need to make it
16:34:17 <Inge-> a lot less than you need XRP
16:34:35 <mmxxx[m]> sorry, to make what?
16:40:28 <neetpill[m]> to /make it/
16:40:38 <neetpill[m]> never worry about money ever again
16:40:42 <neetpill[m]> be financially independant
16:47:01 <nioc> depends on your location and your perspective as well as the ever uncertain future
16:47:56 <nioc> I was poor all my life so I am more easily satisfied
16:48:57 <raecarruth> define 'poor'
16:49:50 <artefact> neetpill[m]: you see xmr as an investment? imho it's just like a currency, or a commodity. not something that generates a ROI
16:51:09 <nioc> I guess the majority in the US are poor
16:51:29 <raecarruth> compared to whom?
16:51:50 <artefact> the median US person is poor compared to the average US person :-)
16:52:03 <nioc> :)
16:52:10 <raecarruth> que?
16:54:57 <nioc> I have never missed a meal except by choice although sometimes it was very close so I guess that means I am not poor
16:55:48 <raecarruth> and that is my point
18:04:41 <raecarruth> when did xmr.to reduce their limit to 1 btc?
18:05:11 <selsta> raecarruth: the limit is dynamic afaik
18:05:26 <selsta> depends on how much funds they have currently and the btc price
18:07:09 <raecarruth> it was at 2 btc for a while
18:09:46 <Guest68366> hallo
19:57:42 <shirley_huang[m]> Why is it taking my Monero Wallet forever to Synchronize Wallet, but it is fully synchronized with Daemon?
20:10:26 <nioc> daemon syncs with network and then wallet syncs with daemon
20:14:46 <Inge-> kinky
20:17:36 <shirley_huang[m]> So now it just reset, daemon is synchronized again, but wallet status still says Waiting for daemon to sync :1
20:21:35 <selsta> shirley_huang[m]: are you using monero-gui? Which wallet mode did you select?
20:21:42 <selsta> Simple mode or Advanced mode?
20:22:04 <shirley_huang[m]> Advanced
20:22:44 <shirley_huang[m]> Both bars have definitely turned orange and is fully synchronized in the past
20:23:00 <shirley_huang[m]> But today it seems to be having some issues or is taking longer than usual to sync up
20:23:20 <shirley_huang[m]> I am using a remote node, by the way. Not enough space to create my own,
20:23:22 <shirley_huang[m]>  * I am using a remote node, by the way. Not enough space to create my own.
20:23:29 <shirley_huang[m]>  * Both bars have definitely turned orange and has fully synchronized in the past
20:25:38 <selsta> Okay, can you wait ~5 minutes and if it is still broken try a different remote node and try to restart the GUI
20:25:53 <shirley_huang[m]> sure thing.
20:40:01 <shirley_huang[m]> Ok so I switched to another one (node.xmrbackb.one)
20:40:12 <shirley_huang[m]> And this one just keeps disconnecting
20:44:02 <selsta> try node.xmr.to 18081
20:44:45 <raecarruth> ^
22:59:11 <shirley_huang[m]> I took a nap, but it seems like I've found one that's working for now.
22:59:22 <shirley_huang[m]> Thanks for the troubleshooting.