09:25:54 <Bish> where does one buy moneroes as a fine european?
09:28:37 <charolastra> on Kraken
09:30:39 <asy> Bish: there's localmonero.co too
09:32:26 <tryphe_> Bish, not sure how many of these have monero, but here you go: https://github.com/cointastical/P2P-Trading-Exchanges/
09:34:25 <tryphe_> Bish, there's also 2 more large lists linked in that page
09:43:00 <Bish> tryphe_: thanks
10:58:55 <braunsweig> hello
10:59:35 <braunsweig> where qt is useful for command line monero?
10:59:46 <braunsweig> there is a qt package on depends
11:02:21 <moneromooo> IIRC, for "compiling" transltion files.
11:02:40 <moneromooo> The lrelease/lupdate tools.
11:02:54 <moneromooo> So it ends up pulling all this massive library.
11:03:59 <braunsweig> why monero-gui has not a similar depends solution
11:06:01 <moneromooo> Because nobody did it yet. I believe TheCharlatan is close though.
11:17:35 <zomb> help
11:18:17 <zomb> hi, how to send xmr to btc but not shapeshift ?
11:18:30 <alexanarcho[m]> zomb use xmr.to
11:19:03 <zomb> ok i check ... thx !
14:07:49 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Does Monero's blockchain allow scanning of payment ids to see past transactions?
14:08:22 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> ^question from yesterday’s CoinTelegraph reporter
14:09:08 <moneromooo> You mean, can you look for a particular payment id ? If unencrypted, yes. If encrypted, no.
14:10:01 <moneromooo> There's a RPC for it. Unused now I expect. get_bulk_payments IIRC.
14:10:27 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Ok. And just to be sure, payment IDs are typically used in one-time transactions, yes?
14:10:53 <yanmaani> sure hope so
14:10:54 <moneromooo> I don't know what a one time transaction is.
14:10:55 <alexanarcho[m]> iirc payment ids are really not used anymore, subaddresses for everyting
14:11:13 <moneromooo> I expect encrypted payment ids are still widely used.
14:11:36 <Inge-> but this particular one is long-form?
14:12:03 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> The story came out because the Treasury listed XMR on their sanction list. The writer wasn’t aware that it wasn’t an actual address.. https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/recent-actions/20200916
14:12:09 <alexanarcho[m]> maybe the reporter is wondering about how merchants do it, speaking for our project, we use subaddresses to identify if a given invoice has been payed
14:12:22 <Inge-> so stopped by most(all?) wallets? But as it is in txextra I presume it would still be *possible* to add a long form payment id to a tx? Or is it stopped by the protocol?
14:12:32 <Mochi101> I still use encrypted payment IDs
14:12:34 <moneromooo> It is possible to do so.
14:12:40 <Inge-> thx moo
14:12:46 <Mochi101> I <3 them.
14:12:55 <alexanarcho[m]> Mochi101: why?
14:13:03 <Mochi101> they're really easy
14:13:06 <Inge-> He is just lazy :P
14:13:21 <Mochi101> ++
14:13:40 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> He is just clueless from what I can tell
14:13:50 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> And I thought I was clueless...
14:43:22 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> He’s wondering if any devs are willing to talk to him off-the-record?
14:49:53 <selsta> "He"?
14:51:03 <Inge-> lol. Why can't he just come on irc and ask. The only "off the record" in Monero is vulnerability mitigation AFAIK
14:51:28 <selsta> The cointelegraph reporter that still didn’t correct his article?
14:51:29 <sech1> He = Cointelegraph reporter?
14:55:39 <selsta> This reporter seems only interested in FUD, see this twitter headline: https://twitter.com/cointelegraph/status/1306279445259587588
14:55:59 <selsta> "Their success in tracing transactions to and from the wallet"
14:57:29 <Inge-> they can only trace monero addresses beginning with %
14:57:31 <Inge-> 5*
15:10:25 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> This is “he” https://cointelegraph.com/authors/kollen-post
15:10:46 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Selsta I am trying to educate him so he can correct his article:
15:11:16 <selsta> thanks for doing this
15:11:46 <selsta> though why is he even making claims like this if he has no idea what he is writing about lol
15:13:45 <Inge-> par for the course in Crypto Media :(
15:16:37 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> He was reporting on the claims made by the Treasury dept. (see link above)
15:17:03 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> He drew some conclusions that he shouldn’t have, but he is clueless
15:17:24 <moneromooo> I am clueless about Ethereum. Can I get a salary writing about it then ?
15:18:15 <Inge-> probably.
15:19:11 <Thominus> propagandists don't care about the 10% of their audience that are knowledgeable enough to see through their BS, they rely on the 90% that uncritically accept the headline. So they just ignore you, - unless your voice has comparable reach to theirs then they slander you :)
15:19:24 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> His words: I do plan to update the article but if that payment ID is useless information and the above transactions are all that anyone will be able to find, I think that would merit a whole other story
15:20:21 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> He ran the payment ID through a block explorer and it just revealed a few hashes
15:20:41 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> He’s learning... hopefully...
15:21:18 <Inge-> Some block explorers let you search on payment ID?
15:22:12 <sech1> Inge- https://localmonero.co/blocks/search/5be5543ff73456ab9f2d207887e2af87322c651ea1a873c5b25b7ffae456c320
15:22:59 <moneromooo> Oh shit, that's my address!
15:24:00 <Inge-> cOOL
15:24:23 <Inge-> I'm still confused as to why someone would put a payment ID on an OFAC list.
15:25:00 <moneromooo> Well, guessing, it might make sense in this way:
15:25:27 <moneromooo> - long payment ids were used a lot for exhcanges to recognixe their customers
15:25:34 <moneromooo> - you want to screw that person
15:26:00 <Inge-> Not a bad guess.
15:26:01 <moneromooo> - you tell "whatever exchange you are, don't accept money from that customer of yours"
15:26:06 <moneromooo> say*
15:26:07 <sech1> but payment id were unique per receiver?
15:26:33 <Inge-> per depositor I'd say. Very few exchanges *require* a paymentid when withdrawing
15:26:47 <sech1> I mean receiver = exchange
15:27:12 <moneromooo> If you mean that person can send their money elsewhere, sure.
15:28:09 <moneromooo> However, the above doesn't really make sense either. If it's a payment id to an exchange, it kinda implies they know who the customer is, or they wouldn't know which tx it is.
15:30:02 <Inge-> "WTF? I had no idea what that was - it surely wasn't an address, so what did you expect me to do?" - if they meant it to be a payment ID it would really help everyone if they managed to state that...
15:30:29 <Thominus> trying to spook the customer into reacting?
15:30:48 <Inge-> Could be. I memorize all my payment ID's just in case.
15:30:54 <moneromooo> Right. Whoever laughs must be guilty.
15:31:11 <Inge-> Also, the newest transaction is Dec 2018 ..
15:31:53 <Inge-> I'm still curious if anyone can run some heuristics on these transactions and look for interesting patterns.
15:38:03 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Well, looking at the list of “addresses” linked to that guy on the Treasury website, Monero wasn’t the only cryptocurrency. If he wasn’t using Monero exclusively then he may not have had the best opsec either
15:40:01 <Inge-> wait the other addresses were the same guy? wasn't there like a zec t-address as well?
15:40:25 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> That’s how I interpreted it.
15:41:03 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> The author also wrote this, for what it’s worth https://cointelegraph.com/news/law-decoded-governments-vs-blockchain-privacy-sept-4-11
15:46:27 <Inge-> What is hte noncesense-lab channel name?
15:48:11 <moneromooo> #noncesense-research-lab
15:48:59 <Inge-> ah. missed -research
17:23:58 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> https://twitter.com/xmroutreach/status/1306644160527523842
17:24:04 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> They updated the article
17:24:43 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> https://cointelegraph.com/news/new-us-treasury-sanctions-on-russian-hackers-hit-monero-address/
17:25:45 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Regarding the IRS, @Cointelegraph says: “For the time being, it doesn't look like they know what they are doing.”
17:27:20 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> I extended the olive branch and offered to help fact check any Monero related content they intend to publish and they have indicated they would like to.
17:28:21 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> I am not a dev though, so in the future there may be things above my level of expertise. I’d love it if a few devs could make themselves available for this kind of thing....
17:50:37 <dEBRUYNE> What did they have to say about their sensationalist headline(s)?
17:58:58 <moneromooo> You can always paste me anything you want checked.
18:27:03 <godo-chan[m]> guys I got some infinite synchronization bug. I don't need to synchronize or do anything, right, the money is in the blockchain, and it is already linked to my wallet, right?
18:27:38 <godo-chan[m]> just received a transaction, so just wondering whether I have to do anything on my part
18:33:16 <moneromooo> You only need to scan if you want to spend it.
18:33:35 <moneromooo> As long as the tx hit the chain, you have the money, you can scan later to use it.
18:33:57 <moneromooo> Of course, you might want to scan to make sure if you do not trust the sender to have sent it.
19:32:30 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Thanks moneromooo. dEBRUYNE we didn’t discuss their headlines, but I suspect they didn’t edit the title because it is already tied up in search algorithms
19:33:51 <moneromooo> What kind of a dishonest excuse is that....
19:34:24 <moneromooo> We can't fix it because it'd make our mistake not being amplified some more.
19:34:57 <moneromooo> Is this the bytecoin affiliated rag ? I always forget which one it is.
19:39:44 <dsc_> Views are more important than quality reporting - go figure ;')
19:44:09 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Lol, you guys sure are critical
19:44:25 <luigi1111w> ct was bytecoin yeah
19:44:30 <luigi1111w> not sure who bought them now though
19:45:50 <yanmaani> moneromooo: it fucks your SEO if you do that
19:45:58 <yanmaani> that's also why you usually put out the headline first
19:46:40 <dsc_> And before you put out a headline, you do research :P
19:46:42 <yanmaani> So, if there's some terrorism going on, they have templates, and then they can just immediately put out "terrorist attack in X, more to follow"
19:46:49 <yanmaani> So they get a really good timestamp
19:47:00 <yanmaani> dsc_: no, that fucks the SEO, the timestamp gets worse if you do that
19:47:12 <moneromooo> Search engines display stuff with a lowest timestamp first ?
19:47:17 <yanmaani> you put out the headline, put out the article, and have someone proofread the article
19:47:20 <yanmaani> in that order
19:47:20 <dsc_> I've worked at my countries biggest newspaper, you don't have to explain :P
19:47:36 <yanmaani> moneromooo: it's incentivized - "who had the OC" sort of thing
19:47:43 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> I think it’s important not to conflate individuals within an organization with the organization itself. The two individuals I’ve spoken with so far seem to be uninformed, curious, and interested in doing better. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt until they give me evidence not to...
19:47:56 <yanmaani> I don't think anyone here is malicious
19:48:00 <moneromooo> That sounds like our government. Put out targets, be surprised when people optimize to the targets rather than what they shuld be doing.
19:48:03 <yanmaani> I saw the article and it looked balanced enough
19:48:06 <moneromooo> Stupid cunts everywhere.
19:48:10 <yanmaani> which one?
19:48:13 <yanmaani> inb4 all of them
19:48:25 <moneromooo> What's an OC ?
19:48:29 <yanmaani> original content
19:49:01 <moneromooo> xmrhaelan: great way to be scammed :)
19:49:33 <moneromooo> Because the evidence usually comes in the shape of missing money...
19:49:47 <yanmaani> Journalists? Stealing money?
19:49:53 <yanmaani> don't be so paranoid man
19:49:53 <moneromooo> No, in general.
19:51:16 <yanmaani> By the way that's also why you often see bizarre obituaries
19:51:33 <yanmaani> Because they have pre-written obits for literally all public figures
19:51:41 <yanmaani> elections, same thing
19:52:40 <moneromooo> Therefore the occasional obits for living people. Never ceases to amuse.
19:53:39 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Moneromoo fortunately the only loss from being “scammed” in this circumstance would be another shitty article from CoinTelegraph
19:54:36 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> The potential benefit outweighs the potential loss.
19:54:50 <nakedpony> (>^^)> <(^^<)
19:55:42 <Thominus> after enough shitty articles doesn't the potential benefit start to approach zero?
19:57:21 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Unfortunately no. Innocent people still read them.
19:59:35 <Thominus> ah, yeah
20:25:02 <dEBRUYNE> xmrhaelen: They didn't use the title of the article as headline
20:25:22 <dEBRUYNE> https://twitter.com/Cointelegraph/status/1306279445259587588
20:25:47 <dEBRUYNE> Here's another sensationalist FUD headline -> https://twitter.com/Cointelegraph/status/1304255354558177280
20:52:52 <xmrmatterbridge> <xmrhaelan> Ahh I see what you mean. Yeah those are annoying.
20:56:28 <dEBRUYNE> Slight understatement
21:30:16 <nakedpony> what's FUD
21:30:33 <nakedpony> as in what does it mean?
21:31:25 <moneromooo> Facts U Dislike.
21:31:44 <moneromooo> Originally Fear, Undertainty and Doubt. Based off IBM and... Commodore IIRC ?
21:34:13 <nakedpony> ah, thanks! I keep seeing people use that. urban dictionary gave me... a very colorful and unlikely answer, which  then became the only thing I could think of whenever seeing FUD
21:34:33 <midipoet> dsc_: I could sooooo imagine you as a cigarette smoking, street wise, connections at all the right street corners journalist hack
21:40:04 <dsc_> lol... no just a boring IT guy :P
21:42:32 <dsc_> Must say, it was the nicest job I ever had. No managers from hell. No unreasonable deadlines. It was all very chill. And we (software team) made great things because of it.
22:04:25 <midipoet> https://www.monetaryreset.net/
22:04:39 <midipoet> well I never ^
22:16:42 <Thominus> IBM invented it, Microsoft made an art of it :)
22:16:49 <Thominus> ^re: "FUD"
23:45:37 <GoldenAngle> YoNero