11:25:58 <alexanarcho[m]> Hey everybody! I have just created a CCS Proposal for TIPXMR.LIVE https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/169
11:25:58 <alexanarcho[m]> Looking forward to hear your thoughts and please be sure to upvote if you like our work!
13:07:54 <endor00[m]> alexanarcho: nice proposal! Question: how would you make your users pay your service fee? Payment in advance, I assume?
13:20:08 <alexanarcho[m]> endor00: yes, we display a qr code/address after login if the month is not payed
13:20:30 <alexanarcho[m]> (of course you can avoid this fee by cloning the repo and hosting it yourself)
13:26:14 <endor00[m]> Would be cool if you also had an option to automate payment from the current balance (if available), so that a streamer would not need to make a monthly manual payment to keep the service up
13:28:35 <endor00[m]> But perhaps that's better left for a future improvement, and not the delivery of the MVP
13:28:45 <hundehausen[m]> We have no access to the streamer wallet, but he could interactive use his wallet to pay the monthly fee.
13:30:05 <endor00[m]> You don't have to, it would all be possible client-side. As soon as the user loads the wallet, the code checks the balance, and if balance > service fee you would automatically generate a payment tx
13:30:39 <endor00[m]> (If the option has been enabled - otherwise it falls back to the manual payment)
13:31:04 <alexanarcho[m]> very nice idea, like hundehausen said we cannot make payments, but if the streamer is logged in anyway it should be easy to issue a payment from the WASM wallet balance
13:31:19 <hundehausen[m]> that's a good idea
13:31:52 <endor00[m]> bonus: less risk of the user accidentally sending the money to a bad address due to error/clipboard malware
13:32:13 <alexanarcho[m]> yep, i really like the idea - thats the kind of feedback we are looking for!
13:33:21 <Thominus> from the last few lines of chat this sounds interesting - whats it about?
13:33:43 <xmrmatterbridge> <trasherdk> Do the streamer need to run a wallet rpc or will he connect to one at your server?
13:33:55 <endor00[m]> same goes for automated withdrawals to a user-specified wallet
13:34:42 <endor00[m]> hell, you could even make both payments (service withdrawal and deposit to cold storage) in a single tx
13:34:56 <alexanarcho[m]> TrasherDK:  per default the streamer will connect to our full node, but we might implement the option to use another remote node
13:35:32 <alexanarcho[m]> Thominus: you can find the full proposal here https://repo.getmonero.org/AlexAnarcho/ccs-proposals/-/commit/fb56e1526713f87cb0423c8751c8466e703a8c9a
13:35:48 <xmrmatterbridge> <trasherdk> So, the user wallet is "in memory" ?
13:36:04 <Thominus> alexanarcho[m]: thanks!
13:38:15 <alexanarcho[m]> TrasherDK: in the browser
13:38:44 <endor00[m]> Btw have you posted this proposal in r/monero? If not, you should!
13:39:00 <alexanarcho[m]> good idea! @ endor00 on it!
13:41:12 <Thominus> alexanarcho[m]:  thats super cool - I'm a streamer myself and I was just recently working on a monero donation/support page, integrated with my channel's chat bot and twitch api
13:43:30 <hundehausen[m]> our service would fir perfectly for you
13:43:49 <alexanarcho[m]> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/itvpw8/ccs_proposal_tipxmrlive_a_noncustodial_livestream/? here is the link for reddit, give it an upvote :)
13:43:52 <hundehausen[m]>  * our service would fit perfectly for you, if you use OBS
13:54:24 <Thominus> yes OBS - I self host my chatbot, all my notification events and animations, scene control interface with obs websockets, so I kinda have fun with that stuff.  I just made an integrated address generator, a dynamic monero donation page generator,  and a trigger system with tx_notify for dono alerts
13:57:32 <Thominus> I wanted to put monero at the top of the support options to try and help awareness/adoption of it
18:08:08 <Inge-> It would be really cool to tip popular twitch streamers with xmr
18:08:31 <raecarruth> you think twitch streamers care about privacy?
18:08:43 <raecarruth> people who put their lives online for all to see? o_0
18:09:10 <Inge-> I don't really care what they think about privacy. But easy tipping with xmr that anyone can do, would be good for eyeballs
18:09:27 <raecarruth> my point is - why would they?
18:09:34 <raecarruth> people get into xmr because they value privacyc
18:09:52 <raecarruth> those who don't value privacy will not care, they'll go for whatever is popular
18:10:04 <raecarruth> and convenient
18:10:06 <moneromooo> Why would anyone use a computer if they're not a programmer ? Make them useful enough, and they will.
18:10:30 <raecarruth> o_0
18:10:37 <raecarruth> how does that equate to what i wrote?
18:11:07 <moneromooo> It does not. It is a simile.
18:11:36 <raecarruth> A simile is a figure of speech that directly compares two things. Similes differ from metaphors by highlighting the similarities between two things
18:11:48 <moneromooo> Yes, that's the one :)
18:12:31 <Inge-> I really like buying digital goods and NOT having to provide my CC info and home address and shit. some email + pay xmr, done.
18:12:46 <raecarruth> yes, that's you
18:12:51 <raecarruth> and most of the others in here
18:12:55 <raecarruth> but that's not the majority
18:14:34 <moneromooo> Your point is unclear. Are you saying people should not try to make monero useful for people who don't particularly care about privacy ?
18:15:13 <moneromooo> You're not *saying* that, but the broad strokes kinda imply it.
18:16:00 <moneromooo> AFAICT, the person doing this is trying to make it useful enough that those people will find a use for it.
18:16:11 <raecarruth> who said that they shouldn't
18:16:19 <raecarruth> i asked why would they?
18:16:26 <moneromooo> Noone, if you read  what  I saud.
18:16:43 <moneromooo> I'm asking whether you did :)
18:16:46 <moneromooo> Feel free to reply;l
18:17:54 <dsc_> I applaud any attempt at making Monero useful for whatever target audience ^^
18:18:01 <moneromooo> Making something useful to more people than just the ones who are into the "root" raison d'etre is useful. That's what is being tried AFAICT.
18:18:27 <moneromooo> (hence the simile, which apparently didn't work)
18:19:11 <moneromooo> Anyway, whatver, I have work to do ^_^
18:19:31 <moneromooo> Ah, no, not yet. chaingen_main still. Monster to build.
18:21:32 <moneromooo> Tests must be both the greatest thing and the worst. Depending on whether they pass.
18:27:11 <nakedpony> <raecarruth> I do think twitch streamers care about privacy. Do they disclose how much they're making on the platform from tips? I haven't seen that happening. It also helps avoid people tracking who's donating to that twitch streamer
18:29:26 <dsc_> correction: *almost* all target audiences ^^
18:30:04 <dsc_> in the case of Twitch, IIRC. the payments usually go through streamlabs (?) and when you donate, you can actually *see* the email address of who you donated to (don't ask me why I know this)
18:31:20 <dsc_> some sort of integration with Monero would be very awesome.
18:33:01 <dsc_> And imo where something like Monero shines (internet donations)
18:33:16 <dsc_> Which brings me to another brainfart
18:33:42 <nakedpony> moneromoo: I think it's correct to say the majority isn't very interested in privacy, and don't view it as a priority. It's probably also true that the majority doesn't think about privacy or understand why it's important. I do think there's important nuance, though: Privacy does affect the majority in important ways, and providing privacy is extremely valuable whether or not people understand why. I also think there's
18:33:42 <nakedpony>  probably going to be something that can quickly change the majority's attitude, once something makes the value of privacy becomes obvious to them
18:33:51 <dsc_> VLC (https://www.videolan.org/contribute.html) accept donations in Monero, and lots of other *well known* do too
18:34:15 <dsc_> Is there some sort of library where I can lookup which FOSS projects are accepting Monero?
18:35:52 <nakedpony> fyi/reminder: fluffypony will be speaking today at 2:30mst on a panel at Crypto Privacy Conference zoom meeting
18:37:58 <fluffypony> indeed
18:38:20 <fluffypony> 2:40pm, so in a few mins
18:38:44 <Thominus> raecarruth: I care very much about privacy, I care about having the choice to excersize it, streaming doesn't mean you don't care about privacy.
18:38:53 <dsc_> link to zoom meeting thing?
18:39:24 <Inge-> for a moment I thought fluffy was waiting on the fed to speak
18:40:11 <fluffypony> https://fmr.zoom.us/webinar/register/1915960396113/WN_nMTjLYT4TrGwDU9sYEwFkg
18:40:44 <Inge-> only on zoom?
18:41:50 <fluffypony> yes I don't think they're re-broadcasting anywhere
18:43:06 <fluffypony> just started
18:43:53 <dsc_> does the meeting "lag" for any of you?
18:44:17 <nakedpony> working well for me
18:44:18 <moneromooo> Providing a private currency to people who don't care about privacy helps my privacy, so I'm all for it :)
18:46:16 <Thominus> :)
18:48:38 <moneromooo> I can't wait till the privacy pendulum reverts to the mean. Living in this fucking panopticon pisses me off.
18:50:21 <_I3^RELATIVISM> gonna take a while for awareness to rise to that
18:50:58 <fluffypony> you mean you don't like facial recognition cameras everywhere?
18:51:00 <fluffypony> :-P
18:51:36 <nakedpony> I can see it flourishing really quickly in niche economies. Look at these protests around the country. They seem like they'd be keen to use a "people's currency" if they believe they're opposing a "fascist government"
18:54:33 <Thominus> I honestly can barely comprehend the extent to which value in individual privacy has diminished. Its become dystopian. Its happening with free speech also.
18:56:24 <nakedpony> what's weird to me is that I don't feel like I've changed into a privacy radical. The world around me changed over like two decades
18:56:34 <nakedpony> and everyone is just going along with it
18:56:50 <Thominus> thats exactly correct nakedpony
18:57:16 <moneromooo> Sometimes I wish a really bad privacy invasion happens. Like rounding up everyone who did something long ago. It's fighting fire with fire, but if we've reacjed this point I'm not sure what else can slap people back into sanity.
18:58:29 <Thominus> it is happening moneromooo but slowly - boiling the frog
18:58:55 <moneromooo> Oh, reminds me.
18:59:23 <moneromooo> A few days ago, there was outrage about some Chinese company who had been making a db of vcarious stuff about people.
18:59:43 <zib> im sad i cant find the db anywhere :(
18:59:50 <nakedpony> Yeah, but it would have to be huge. the Experian hack wasn't enough... and that was huge. and it was information that wasn't even directly provided to Experian. There was just a company, somewhere, having all this sensitive data on millions of people... and let it get stolen. And all people got was a free subscription to identify theft monitoring services
18:59:54 <moneromooo> But (though I did not really look further) the claim was that it was info from facebook, twatter, and various other social media.
19:00:22 <moneromooo> I mean, it pissed me off people were only starting to be mad when it was a Chinese company and not before.
19:00:30 <moneromooo> It's like wtd did you expect
19:00:43 * moneromooo should step back from irc for a bit
19:00:44 <nakedpony> !! right
19:01:08 <zib> mainstream media found out that there's something called crawlers and were outraged
19:01:11 <moneromooo> And yeah, fuck experian so much
19:01:13 <dsc_> hear hear
19:01:18 <zib> meanwhile i used massscan to scan the entire internet yday under 4h
19:01:19 <zib> :D
19:01:22 <moneromooo> and choicepoint
19:01:33 <dsc_> zib: ipv4 can be done under a hour
19:01:42 <zib> dsc_: yeah my hw sucks
19:01:47 <dsc_> with zmap and 2gbit ;p
19:02:04 <zib> well yeah
19:02:19 <zib> can be dome with masscan and pf_ring also
19:03:37 <dsc_> moneromooo: I hope you are not listening to this Zoom meeting, because you'd get more upset :)
19:03:49 <dsc_> fluffy is doing great though
19:07:59 <Batoeh> Hey guys. I thin last time I was here someone posted a really nice way to view the crypto prices from the terminal. Well I think it was just curl with a really neat and kiss site. That sound familiar to anyone?
19:08:31 <asy> Batoeh: `curl btc.rate.sx`
19:09:49 <Batoeh> YEAH! Thans so much asy.
19:09:56 <asy> :D
19:14:34 <ndorf> even better: curl https://rate.sx/xmr (with chart)
19:19:11 <nakedpony> the Crypto Privacy Conference is going well, and they're doing a good job of articulating the value of privacy by default as an important feature. One thing they're not quite hitting is that BTC does have an advantage as a store of value because monero trades privacy for verifiability
19:19:34 <hyc> nonsense
19:19:44 <hyc> how is monero any less verifiable than bitcoin?
19:19:58 <nakedpony> you can check the blockchain and see how much there is
19:20:00 <nakedpony> for btc
19:20:11 <hyc> you can do the same for monero
19:20:13 <ndorf> you can do the same for monero? coinbase txes are public
19:20:23 <ndorf> jinx, heh
19:20:54 <nakedpony> I'm going to get back to reading the books then. I must be misinformed
19:20:57 <hyc> bitcoin has 1st mover / network effect. none of that is any technological advantage
19:21:26 <hyc> it is certainly a significant advantage at the moment
19:21:46 <hyc> but popularity is fleeting
19:22:30 <hyc> and in every technological measure, bitcoin has no advantage over monero
19:23:09 <ndorf> some pretty sizable disadvantages, though
19:24:12 <nakedpony> the break-out moment for monero is when it becomes useful as a "people's currency." Aside from being part of fiat exchange ramp, why else would you want to convert your XMR to BTC aside from speculation?
19:24:51 <Thominus> the openness of bitcoin is only advantageous for traders, bankers, and regulators, making it a toy for open market trading, while its done it zero favours to helping its utility as a means of currency.
19:25:00 <ndorf> you can exchange fiat for XMR directly on e.g. Kraken. no need for BTC
19:26:07 <alexanarcho[m]> assuming xmr has sound maths and implementation of ringCT, monero is just as verifiable as bitcoin. in my discussions with toxic maximalists this is an assumption they are not willing to make
19:26:26 <Inge-> nakedpony: I think hyc/ndorf overstate their position slightly - as you can't as easily verify that transaction amounts are correct. Well, some mathematicians can - I hear the math is solid. But it also depends on the implementation not including unfound bugs that could lead to transaction amounts not being correctly checked, so theoretically you have slightly less sound verification of amounts in
19:26:32 <Inge-> transactions, for privacy.
19:27:06 <alexanarcho[m]> also as for the livestream bot, i see many advantages not just privacy, cheap, fast tx, seemless UX for online donations, key ownership...
19:27:36 <nakedpony> thanks Inge I think that clarification helps reconcile what I thought I knew with what they were informing me!
21:05:28 <Thominus> alexanarcho[m]: agree about the livestream bot - monero's structure and its tools could hardly be more ideal, The integrated address and payment id is perfect for this, and the rpc wallet with tx notify is perfect to trigger alert event - I can set its service script to trigger whatever notification event in the bot I want after however many confirmations I choose, and everything is very easy to separate and isolate for security