00:46:37 <tryphe> is there a reason why "do not use hitbtc" was removed from the channel motd? what changed?
00:47:25 <selsta> no, it is still listed in the "avoid" link
00:47:35 <tryphe> ahh
00:47:51 <selsta> I don’t remember anyone changing the motd, I doubt it was intentional
00:48:36 <tryphe> yeah i guess the message was simply too long
00:53:50 <tryphe> s3a, i believe they use different standards: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/g6yqb3/revisiting_bip39_seed_phrase_standard_in_2020/
00:54:34 <tryphe> "they" = hardware wallet vs monero software
00:57:26 <tryphe> yanmaani, it depends on what you mean by "compliant". there's plenty of no-kyc exchanges that will let you exchange any volume of coin.
01:04:41 <yanmaani> tryphe: compliant = kyc/legal
01:23:36 <s3a> tryphe, Thanks for the answer, but I'm still having trouble.
01:24:36 <s3a> I found this ( https://github.com/LedgerHQ/app-monero/tree/master/tools/python ), but the generated 25-word seed (from the offiline option) is not working when I try to "recover a wallet" using monero-wallet-cli --restore-from-seed.
01:24:44 <s3a> tryphe,
01:25:12 <s3a> I have to go again very soon, but I'll see your response later (if there is one).
01:27:39 <s3a> Basically, why isn't it working, and is there any free-as-in-freedom program that can yield the 2nd seed from the 1st seed + passphrase combination?
02:28:47 <mr_ab> Holy smokes, ... how much bandwidth is it to just run a remote (public) node?  I mean I realize it will be dependant on how many users use it, but how much per sync?
02:28:56 <mr_ab> I can never, ever, ever find reliable public nodes...
02:29:43 <mr_ab> I have a bunch of GCE servers which I have free reign and 'corporate funding' for ... Like 1T/mo wouldn't be a biggie.
02:30:11 <mr_ab> Maybe I'm just really dumb, but the only one I can ever get working is something like uwillrunanodesoon, and it's slow as xmas..
02:48:46 <gingeropolous> and this might be dumb, and not entirely related, but maybe... couldn't we enforce encryption etc of tx_extra by measuring the entropy of the data?
02:49:37 <gingeropolous> i mean, i've encountered various "you need more random" checks in my computer usage
02:49:57 <gingeropolous> nah wait maybe thats nonsense
02:58:03 <yanmaani> gingeropolous: what
02:58:12 <yanmaani> You can use haveged if you need entropy
02:58:19 <yanmaani> but what are you on about
02:58:43 <yanmaani> mr_ab: bandwidth is only expensive on cloud lol, you can get a server with 1 GBit unlimited for like $30 a month at Hetzner
03:00:36 <gingeropolous> im on about tx_extra
03:00:46 <gingeropolous> and its privacy destroyin ways
03:01:05 <gingeropolous> might have good reason to up an kick it on right outta here
03:01:24 * gingeropolous 's been watching too much firefly
03:02:17 <yanmaani> you can measure entropy, not sure how much good it'll do you
03:02:27 <yanmaani> all those tests are probabilistic
03:02:58 <yanmaani> maybe you could have the client always encrypt it with a key deterministically generated with the wallet, but I'm not sure that matches with the use cases
06:30:30 <nulligan> https://ciphertrace.com/ciphertrace-announces-worlds-first-monero-tracing-capabilities/
06:38:29 <Inge-> nulligan: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
06:38:54 <nulligan> I know right? Just thought I’d share
06:39:19 <nulligan> “Ring signatures, which enable transaction mixing, are built into the protocol design, so when attempting to locate the source of a transaction, it will appear as if a whole crowd of users took part in the exchange, making it nearly impossible to identify the true source”
06:40:22 <nulligan> Looks more like a PR stunt to me
06:40:35 <nulligan> Anyway stay safe lads
06:41:03 <Inge-> needmoney90: do you have your meme of ciphertrace announcement and then IRS announcement?
06:41:44 <needmoney90> https://mobile.twitter.com/MoneroMemes/status/1304028872275419138
06:41:56 <needmoney90> I'm on mobile or I'd have reuploaded to irccloud
06:42:47 <needmoney90> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/BCcJeChy/EhjXLXdVgAE40Og.jpeg
06:42:50 <needmoney90> There
06:42:57 <Inge-> nulligan ^
06:44:56 <MalMen> when I make transactions on testnet they never show on the wallet before the the transaction are mined
06:45:15 <Inge-> do they show up in the testnet explorer ?
06:45:28 <MalMen> hmmm, good question
06:47:00 <MalMen> https://testnet.xmrchain.com/ have alot more blocks than me
06:47:18 <MalMen> maybe im in a paralel testnet, mining blocks alone
07:06:53 <selsta> MalMen: are you using master?
07:06:57 <selsta> testnet forked
07:08:14 <MalMen> yes
07:08:19 <MalMen> well
07:08:23 <MalMen> im using the last bin
07:09:15 <selsta> you need master
07:09:29 <selsta> self compiled
07:09:38 <MalMen> sooooo, thats why I am not connecting to anyone ? xD
07:09:48 <MalMen> I was feeling alone already
07:09:52 <selsta> lol
07:09:53 <MalMen> stagenet is good for testing ?
07:10:11 <MalMen> I just need to test monero apis and stuff
07:30:56 <selsta> yes stagenet is ok
13:26:56 <yanmaani> So do we have actual details on CipherTrace?
13:27:44 <raecarruth> good question
13:28:01 <sech1> no we don't
13:28:19 <sech1> they haven't replied to technical questions e-mail
13:46:00 <anicow> lol
14:00:59 <Thominus> hmm my monerod just started spitting out "E failed to find tx meta"
14:01:47 <artefact> 32 blocks in the last 30 minutes heh
14:01:57 <Thominus> that too :)
14:02:14 <dEBRUYNE> Thominus: You can safely ignore that
14:02:34 <Thominus> cool
14:02:46 <anicow> if i couldve been traced it wouldve been
14:02:51 <anicow> by now, stupid feds
14:03:00 <anicow> just by bored teenagers with no money incentive at all
14:25:11 * neetpill[m] uploaded an image: image.png (815KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/gfdMxSzgXtYdoamLSDCmUdvx/image.png >
15:02:28 <TrasherDK> Argh. Forgot my password... Damn Pidgin crap..
16:12:48 <xmrmatterbridge> <trasherdk> Okay. Let's see how Mattermost stacks up :)
16:13:27 <sethsimmons> I certainly prefer Matrix/Element to Mattermost so far
16:13:40 <MalMen> shouldnt get_transfers show unconfirmed transactions ?
16:13:51 <sethsimmons> And the bridge is handled much better (and is native to Element, so we don't have to own it) TrasherDK
16:18:39 <xmrmatterbridge> <trasherdk> I'll have a look at that Matrix/Element thingy :)
16:20:11 <Mochi101> MalMen, show_transfers unconfirmed
17:07:08 <lithiumpt> is it possible to build a monero qr code to send to multiple subaddresses ?
17:07:29 <azy> what would the qr contain?
17:07:33 <lithiumpt> N transactions in a single QR Code
17:08:11 <lithiumpt> in monero-wallet-cli you can send multiple transaction in a single operation
17:08:35 <lithiumpt> transfer wallet1 amount1 wallet2 amount2 wallet3 amount3
17:08:43 <azy> i think it would depend on the wallet receiving the qr's command(?)
17:09:11 <lithiumpt> yep
17:09:14 <azy> cli you would just put in the qr: transfer address1 amount1 address2 amount2, but that would be useless for the gui or cake
17:10:10 <lithiumpt> if it isn't support, it will have to be a feature request
17:10:23 <azy> do bitcoin wallets support that?
17:10:43 <lithiumpt> no idea, i'm building a web app
17:11:10 <lithiumpt> the use case of this scenario would be to send a payment for multiple persons at the same time
17:15:46 <Thominus> makes no sense to me how or why you would use a QR in that way
17:21:56 <azy> so the user can scan and then press pay on their app/whatever
17:22:12 <yanmaani> freenode blocks tor
17:22:17 <yanmaani> considered bridging this network to OFTC?
17:26:00 <Thominus> azy: for single addresses its pretty easy - theres a standard URI format and you can use qrencode to create the image, but I've not seen anything for multiple addresses - also seems like it would generate kind-of a big complex QR image
17:26:52 <azy> come to think about it, how would you come to scan a qr code on a website? with your phone while browsing via a pc?
17:27:20 <azy> ive seen donation buttons link "monero:address", maybe that opens people's wallets sometimes?
17:27:53 <ErCiccione[m]> yanmaani: freenode works with tor. You just need to create a certificate. There are instructions on freenode's website
17:28:21 <Thominus> right - if you have software to interperet the URI it will open it in that software.   like https:// will open a link, etc.  same with monero:
17:28:25 <yanmaani> ErCiccione[m]: yeah, and create an account
17:28:27 <moneromooo> Last I knew, it wanted you to connect without tor first. Is that gone ?
17:28:31 <yanmaani> a lot of work
17:28:37 <yanmaani> moneromooo: nope, you have to do various hacks
17:28:41 <azy> i dont think it's gone
17:29:13 <Thominus> you still need to connect without first to tor for freenode
17:29:48 <ErCiccione[m]> Nope. Still need to connect without tor first
17:30:06 <moneromooo> Oooooh, new business model. For 5 monero, I will create accounts and sell them to tor users who don't want to connect even once without tor :D
17:30:34 <moneromooo> Who outbids me at 4.5 monero ? :D
17:30:56 <moneromooo> (and no I won't, just making emails is a massive pita these days and I'd need one)
17:31:35 <azy> ill sell bncs that can be connected to over tor
17:33:23 <Thominus> ctemplar was looking cool but then they had some wierd invite restriction to get in
17:43:04 <Thominus> so I was playing with --do-not-relay and trying to see if I could use the RPC to push the transaction in a curl command (stagenet).  The docs for the daemon RPC relay_tx method show that is to post txid parameter, and the docs for the wallet RPC's relay_tx show the hex blob as the parameter. Neither of them seemed to work.
17:44:29 <moneromooo> relay_tx in the daemon was borked for a time. Current master is good.
17:44:42 <moneromooo> relay_tx relays a tx that the daemon already has.
17:44:54 <moneromooo> sendrawtransaction adds a new tx (from hex dump).
17:45:08 <yanmaani> You can bypass it by making a matrix account
17:45:11 <yanmaani> but it's a giant PITA
17:45:16 <moneromooo> The wallet expects a hex dump of the tx + extra data which a wallet previously generated.
17:46:51 <Thominus> ah! sendrawtransaction ! sounds like what I want for sure. I'll give that a shot thank you!
17:49:11 <yanmaani> Would you bridge monero to OFTC (tor allowed)?
17:51:48 <Thominus> on the upside, I made a fortune mining stagenet :D !! so maybe I'll go for that 4.5 monero deal :D
18:37:12 <mr_ab> Oookay
18:37:17 <mr_ab> I'm just having the worst time
18:38:56 <mr_ab> Couldn't get connected to remote nodes for the longest (I did like a month ago though fine with 0.16.0.0 even, but 16.0.3 is just like noooooo) ... finally got connected today and i'm stuck at ~80k wallet blocks remaining, with my cli throwing up everywhere
18:39:31 <sethsimmons> Can you share more about your setup? I use remote nodes all the time with no issues, but they’re all my own.
18:39:40 <mr_ab> exceptino thrown, no connection to daemon, but then like 10 seconds later will always say... daemonBlockChainTargetHeight: daemon error, daemonBlockChainHeight: no error
18:39:46 <sethsimmons> I’ve never had remote sync issues so I’m curious what you’re running into.
18:39:48 <mr_ab> is that a connection issue or is that something else?
18:39:55 <mr_ab> running debian testing atm
18:40:03 <mr_ab> i do have disk space issues
18:40:10 <sethsimmons> Have you tried any of the more stable nodes, like those provided by cake wallet, XMR.to, etc?
18:40:45 <sethsimmons> Are you doing this over clearnet or some anonymity network like Tor/i2p?
18:40:55 <mr_ab> hmm, this is node.supportxmr.com, .. and yeah just clearnet
18:41:20 <sethsimmons> Odd, is your local network.. bad? As in bad for other things?
18:41:21 <mr_ab> although my connection can be mildly unstable at times, it seems stable, lemme start a ping, maybe i'm getting packet loss, i've just been barely browsing so it's plausible
18:41:43 <mr_ab> i have this bizarro fixed point wifi system setup thru my isp
18:41:55 <sethsimmons> Yeah, syncing up from scratch is certainly a lot more involved then just light web browsing. It’s very likely your network at fault here.
18:42:21 <sethsimmons> Can you run a node locally? Would likely take a long time to sync but then would be easier for you I’d expect.
18:42:32 <mr_ab> well it's ~16mbit stable when it's stable, but i'm hopping between a bunch of antennas, so on occasion I get really bad packet loss just because my ISP is terrible
18:42:42 <sethsimmons> A pruned node only takes up like 30GB ATM.
18:42:57 <sethsimmons> <mr_ab "well it's ~16mbit stable when it"> That speed isn’t terrible, so maybe just run a local node?
18:43:09 <moneromooo> There was a bug report a while ago that said monero is awful with shitty packet dropping connections.
18:43:14 <mr_ab> hah, nailed it
18:43:14 <sethsimmons> P2p sync will take some time but then will be a lot easier since wallet sync would be local.
18:43:16 <moneromooo> Nothing was done about this since.
18:43:25 <mr_ab> i'm getting about ~10% packet loss apparently
18:43:31 <sethsimmons> Oof
18:43:38 <dEBRUYNE> mr_ab: What opearting system are you using?
18:43:59 <moneromooo> 10% seems like broken hardware.
18:44:04 <mr_ab> Debian Testing, I just upgraded everything yesterday I think, so up to date to then
18:44:22 <sethsimmons> Need to slap some sense into your ISP buddy
18:44:27 <sethsimmons> That’s awful
18:44:30 <mr_ab> yeahhhhhh it's a bunch of antennas stuck on grain bins, I'm happy I can get this... I'm 1mi outside of dsl land
18:44:37 <mr_ab> it'll stop soon enough
18:56:13 <mr_ab> oh wow, nice
18:56:23 <mr_ab> never looked at the source before.  goodstuff...
18:57:34 <mr_ab> is the github project the most-official repository?
20:28:30 <lza_menace> so - I've got a subaddress that i've been sending and receiving from. when I check balances for this subaddress it tells me 0, yet adding up ins/outs of transfers for said subaddress tells me there should be more than 0
20:28:54 <lza_menace> get_balance doesn't even return the subaddress in the response
20:29:51 <moneromooo> Fees ?
20:30:19 <lza_menace> included fees. is there a potential for wallets to get corrupted if I used both wallet-rpc and wallet-cli on the same wallet?
20:30:36 <moneromooo> Yes. But newer monero whines about it and doesn;t start.
20:30:47 <lza_menace> hm, maybe that's the problem
20:30:52 <moneromooo> Any chance you sent to the sending address ?
20:30:59 <moneromooo> ie, A -> A
20:31:08 <lza_menace> no, but have sent to another subaddress within the same wallet
20:31:16 <moneromooo> Same account ?
20:31:51 <lza_menace> yes. the only "weird" functionality from that is that "amount" in the get_transfers response payload is 0, but the correct amount is hidden in nested dict
20:32:15 <moneromooo> That's probably why then.
20:32:36 <moneromooo> Send 1 from A to A is the same as sending 0 and getting a change of 1.
20:33:03 <lza_menace> gotcha
20:33:37 <lza_menace> the only other weird behavior is that the primary address (account 0, address 0) has funds in it despite never having sent any there
20:34:03 <moneromooo> Change is sent to subaddress 0.
20:34:11 <lza_menace> ohhhhhhh
20:34:13 <lza_menace> got it
20:34:46 <lza_menace> what specifically do you mean by "change" - just want to confirm terminology
20:37:03 <lza_menace> nevermind: https://www.getmonero.org/resources/moneropedia/change.html
20:38:15 <lza_menace> fuck
20:44:14 <lza_menace> so subaddresses are a bad way to track longterm, then right? if it consumes inputs to make a transaction and needs to make change, the change goes to (0, 0), therefore messing up the associated balance of the subaddress
20:49:24 <moneromooo> Yes. Subaddresses are aliases for the account. Use accounts if you want to do accounting.
20:51:24 <lza_menace> bam
20:51:28 <lza_menace> thanks moneromooo
20:52:28 <lza_menace> i have heard of wallets getting corrupt when doing account based - is that a concern as far as you know?
20:53:08 <lza_menace> if I needed to restore the wallet, would I just do "create_account" rpc call for every account I had previously? how would balances line back up?
20:57:20 <Thominus> so I was successful with pushing raw_monero_tx via monerod-RPC's send_raw_transaction.  I learned though, if I'm not missing something - I can only generate one transfer per cli session per raw_monero_tx file.
20:57:37 <Thominus> Thats useable now that I know.
20:57:40 <moneromooo> If you don't have large numbers of unused accounts/subaddresses, it should be done automatically as the wallet scans.
20:58:28 <moneromooo> Yes. IIRC it was annoying to change the commands to add a filename. Parsing filenames is annoying as a guide.
20:58:40 <moneromooo> Then again, sign does it.
20:58:57 <moneromooo> But it probably doesn't like filenames with a \n in it, or spaces.
20:59:42 <Thominus> right :)
20:59:54 <Thominus> serves the purpose
20:59:58 <moneromooo> The RPC wallet ought to send back the data though, no ?
21:01:00 <Thominus> I have to try again with the RPC wallet - I was just using the cli and posting to monerod's RPC
21:01:32 <Thominus> I tried moving the file out of the way for a second transaction - if I do that in a single session of the cli, the second file fails as a double spend
21:57:45 <Inge-> https://twitter.com/fahlomi/status/1304440534157713409