00:11:44 <moneromooo> Every once in a while, I see a quote from a former NSA lawyer, Susan Hennessey. That's frigging awesome.
08:28:17 <freedude> hello all!
08:28:24 <freedude> got a quick question
08:29:24 <freedude> are the projects described in Community Crowdfunding System exclusive only to core team or can anyone work on any of them for the reward ?
08:30:26 <freedude> oh! there is monero-dev let me go and ask there instead, didn't notice it except right now
08:31:42 <asy> freedude: #monero-community is probably the best place to ask about the CCS :)
08:32:04 <asy> but anyone can ask for funding via the CCS. it helps if people know who you are though
08:32:32 <freedude> nope I am not asking for funding I was asking if anyone can work on any of the simple tasks there
08:32:48 <freedude> like somone wanted to have debian package maintained for 2 years
08:33:07 <freedude> so I felt this is more like dev work
08:33:22 <freedude> but thanks for the tip on where to ask
08:33:51 <asy> i think you can pick up someone's work (and take the reward) if the proposer vanishes without doing it
08:34:09 <asy> https://ccs.getmonero.org/what-is-ccs/
08:34:43 <freedude> yes I wanted to kinda do that (but there was no one doing the to start with)
08:35:22 <freedude> let me go and ask there after reading
10:26:18 <xmrmatterbridge> <rbrunner7> Somebody is mining the hell out of testnet, blocktime is almost down to about 1 minute over the last hour - is somebody 51% attacking the poor thing? :)
12:33:08 <miziel> maybe tari miners?
13:24:20 <charuto> sech1: i dont have a reddit account but i just saw your comment on cost of a 51% attack to the network, are you factoring in the block reward payback? because i think that when you do, it becomes relatively cheap.
13:24:45 <charuto> at least last time i ran the math, which admittedly was a while ago
13:25:16 <sech1> buying cloud VMs brings you back 10% or so as block rewards, if you try mining
13:25:30 <sech1> realistically this is the only way to 51% Monero network
13:25:46 <sech1> or you could hack 5 top supercomputers at once to do this :D
13:26:27 <charuto> damn, only 10%.. was expecting a much higher %
13:26:43 <sech1> maybe 15-20% if you catch cheap spot instances
13:26:57 <sech1> but they're not guaranteed to last, and you need stability to do 51%
13:27:39 <charuto> if you consider the fact that many current miners will stop mining once a 51% attack starts because it becomes unprofitable
13:27:46 <charuto> the 51% attack also gets much cheaper
13:29:06 <charuto> but we can always fork the algo yet again if that ever happens
13:29:22 <charuto> honestly there are probably more concerning attack vectors
14:37:15 <selsta> forking would not help in that case?
14:53:45 <xmrmatterbridge> <cankerwort> If there was a sustained 51% attack forking is the only option
14:53:58 <xmrmatterbridge> <cankerwort> It's either that or sit on our thumbs and do nothing
14:54:40 <moneromooo> It's the only option... or the second ? :)
15:00:50 <xmrmatterbridge> <cankerwort> Idk what is the other option?
15:03:48 <moneromooo> <cankerwort> It's either that or sit on our thumbs and do nothing :P
15:03:57 <moneromooo> I was just pedantic.
15:21:37 <gingeropolous> id imagine that under a 51% attack scenario the existing pools could collude to protect their profit.
15:22:05 <gingeropolous> not that its a great solution, but game theory and financial incentive blah blah blah lead that to be a likely outcome
15:23:03 <gingeropolous> i.e., "we'll only mine on top of a block produced by a known pool"
15:25:18 <moneromooo> They could do that now. Not a comforting thought.
15:26:37 <gingeropolous> indeed. 10+ years of PoW has yet to find a solution to the "pooling problem" of PoW though.
15:26:58 <gingeropolous> and my box has yet to find a solo block :(
15:27:01 <moneromooo> Amusing that the solution is also the problem: men with guns.
15:28:52 <gingeropolous> well, it really only introduces temporary network instability in general, and targeted attacks on merchants / services. i guess it really depends on how sustained it is
15:28:58 <gingeropolous> and the goal.
15:29:41 <gingeropolous> i still wonder if my daemon mining is actually working. bah
15:48:57 <selsta> If someone has the funds / hashrate to attack the network with RandomX they most likely also have it after forking to a different algorithm, or am I missing something? :P
15:54:21 <selsta> Assuming they don’t have hidden ASICs or so.
16:33:09 <yanmaani> gingeropolous: It is possible
16:33:14 <yanmaani> You can block pooled mining trivially
16:33:34 <yanmaani> But then solo mining is the only viable option
16:33:39 <sethsimmons> Any reference to how its been done in the real world?
16:33:53 <yanmaani> meaning big farms gain from it
16:34:08 <sethsimmons> Only coin I've seen try is Nerva but its too small for anyone to care to attack/break it
16:34:17 <endor00[m]> yanmaani: how could you possibly block pooled mining?
16:34:17 <yanmaani> sethsimmons: There was a paper about it. Just require each nonce to be signed by the private key that receives the payment.
16:34:35 <endor00[m]> so the pool signs the nonces
16:34:43 <sethsimmons> Yeah I'm not sure what that changes
16:34:44 <yanmaani> But that's extremely expensive
16:34:55 <sech1> it was already discussed and it doesn't block pool mining
16:34:57 <endor00[m]> they already have a hot wallet up 24/7 anyway, what's the difference?
16:35:03 <yanmaani> If the pool has to make say 1 million sigs/second, and each sig is 64b, that's extremely expensive
16:35:18 <yanmaani> 64 mbit connection to each miner
16:35:26 <sethsimmons> So it kills small pools and drives towards few large/powerful pools?
16:35:46 <sethsimmons> That can support bw/compute needed because of profits
16:35:47 <yanmaani> sethsimmons: Well, it kills all pools, and drives towards "guy in a warehouse with a trillion chips"
16:35:57 <sethsimmons> How does that kill pools?
16:36:01 <sech1> it doesn't kill pools
16:36:19 <yanmaani> You could make the signature algo expensive too. In Bitcoin you have petahash hashrates. There's no way to send over all the sigs
16:36:26 <yanmaani> This is basically an engineering problem
16:36:40 <sethsimmons> One that has yet to be solved because its practically impossible
16:36:46 <yanmaani> No
16:36:51 <sethsimmons> I have seen no valid proposal without major flaws
16:36:51 <yanmaani> It's practically possible
16:36:54 <yanmaani> but the gain is unclear
16:37:02 <sech1> each miner gets their own private key from the pool and signs nonces himself
16:37:08 <sethsimmons> exactly
16:37:17 <sethsimmons> at best it makes miners run their own nodes, which would be a good thing
16:37:17 <yanmaani> sech1: then the miner can spend the block reward
16:37:21 <sech1> each miner deposits block reward before he's allowed to mine as an insurance from stealing block reward
16:37:23 <sethsimmons> But in no way removes pools from the equation
16:37:29 <sech1> It was all discussed here
16:37:37 <yanmaani> that's true I suppose.
16:37:47 <yanmaani> Yeah, then you basically have to fix p2pool
16:37:54 <yanmaani> which is also an engineering problem
16:38:09 <sethsimmons> It pushes towards self-select which is good, but thats about it
16:38:57 <yanmaani> p2pool might be fixable with mempool sync, but it's a very hard problem
16:40:03 <yanmaani> unless someone comes up with a way to shard it
16:43:13 <MalMen> 2020-09-10 16:43:03.577 F Error starting server: Failed to bind IPv4 (set to required)
16:43:31 <MalMen> im getting this error when startming monerod
16:43:54 <artefact> other instance running?
16:44:23 <MalMen> hmmm, thats a possibility
16:45:31 <MalMen> yep... the monerogui has the monerod running despise not connecting to it
17:01:34 <moneromooo> My memory's hazy, but IIRC I thought pool still existed.
17:01:52 <moneromooo> Was it... pebble coin ? Maybe I'm mixing things...
19:04:28 <anicow> we could scam the government into thinking we traced romeno for that bounty
19:04:40 <anicow> is that like.. wrong?
19:04:45 <anicow> those other noobs did for like 3mil
19:04:56 <anicow> brilliant fother muckers
19:25:09 <yanmaani> not a half bad idea
19:25:19 <yanmaani> make a GUI that misrepresents probability and draws a nice graph
19:25:24 <yanmaani> and Bob's your uncle
20:22:41 <corelvl_> anyone here trading? looking to exchange XMR to BTC
20:23:00 <ndorf> you could try #monero-otc for that, not sure how active it is though
20:23:03 <yanmaani> corelvl_: try xmr.to or #monero-markets
20:40:53 <corelvl_> yeah i just asked, its pretty dead in there
20:41:08 <yanmaani> try xmr.to then
20:42:14 <corelvl_> only 1btc per transfer and the rates are too high
20:45:53 <moneromooo> If you want to get monero for bitcoin, you'll hardly going to find better rates.
20:46:14 <corelvl_> i want to transfer my XMR to receive BTC
20:46:16 <yanmaani> corelvl_: How much do you want?
20:46:16 <moneromooo> Some people would ask 50% extra for the risk of having tainted bitcoins.
20:46:21 <moneromooo> Oh.
20:46:39 <yanmaani> try bisq then
20:46:49 <yanmaani> maybe 5% better rates, according to some guy
20:47:18 <corelvl_> bisq i could receive tainted coins
20:48:09 <corelvl_> @yan a lot
20:59:31 <yanmaani> how much monero do you have where you can't even be bothered to transfer $6k a few times
20:59:58 <yanmaani> there's no compliant exchange that's going to let you exchange $1M of monero to clean coins
21:00:10 <yanmaani> either do it with xmr.to or get dirty coins
21:00:47 <ndorf> Kraken certainly will, but only if you are ok with KYC
21:01:17 <yanmaani> If you're OK with KYC then yeah, just go on binance or whatever
21:01:20 <moneromooo> Kowtow to Your Creeps.
21:01:21 <yanmaani> maybe the OTC desks will take you
21:01:27 <yanmaani> look at localmonero
21:01:30 <yanmaani> they have OTC desks
21:01:34 <yanmaani> there's a nice box "KYC yes/no"
21:01:43 <neetpill[m]> i'm sure you can do it on plenty of exchanges with zero kyc, but you'd need to create multiple accounts
21:02:13 <neetpill[m]> assuming it's a large enough sum for them to bother you
21:02:46 <corelvl_> yeah its just a headache, i would rather find a trading partner to deal with at a 1-2% fee
21:03:26 <yanmaani> corelvl_: OTC desks are what you want
21:03:36 <neetpill[m]> come to think of it, i'd like to buy some extra xmr
21:04:30 <ndorf> corelvl_: how do you plan to ensure you don't get tainted coins from some random partner you find on IRC?
21:05:05 <neetpill[m]> mine are as clean as a whissle :'^)
21:05:07 <asy> maybe they should be more concerned about what he's going to do with those coins :P
21:05:15 <corelvl_> @ndorf they need to come from an exchange, i can verify this
21:06:32 <yanmaani> I think probably just spend it on mundane things. The real question is how you end up with $millions of XMR without ability to pass KYC ;)
21:07:06 <neetpill[m]> my guess is mining malware
21:15:56 <nly> Hi, would anyone be willing to teach me Russian for monero or other cryptocurrency? I am thinking of atleast voice calls, if not video, plus text.
21:17:02 <moneromooo> I think reddit might be the place to ask. There's a forum for this kind of thing.
21:17:16 <moneromooo> r/moneromarkets (or maybe without the s)
21:17:17 <ndorf> nly: i know this isn't exactly what you were asking, but there is a pretty active xmr.ru community
21:18:09 <ndorf> their telegram chat has 1773 members and is active
21:19:04 <nly> хорошо, спасибо(great, thanks)
21:19:08 <ndorf> :)
23:18:18 <Thominus> was experimenting with --do-not-relay and noticed that if I do multiple transactions it silently clobbers any existing raw_monero_tx file each time.
23:26:40 <s3a> I have the seed my Trezor Model T gave me, and I know my passphrase, is there some program or something that is compatible with the Trezor Model T's internal algorithm which generates a seed for the Monero client software, so that I could recover a wallet without having the hardware? (I know about the safety implications.) (From what I read the first seed is used with the passphrase to generate the actual, final seed.)