02:14:00 <MalMen> SerHack are you arround ?
06:13:23 <bonedaddy> any documentation with regards to churning best practices? im trying to write an auto-churning app and i have a vague idead of how churning works but want to make sure i do it right
06:15:41 <sech1> Churn 1 output at a time, 1-2 days after receiving it.
06:18:37 <bonedaddy> make sense, and by churning im presuming its sending from one subaddress to a different subaddress, as opposed to sbuaddress -> same subaddress ?
06:19:44 <sech1> you can send to the same subaddress, it doesn't matter
06:20:20 <sech1> addresses are hidden on the blockchain anyway
06:21:43 <bonedaddy> true
06:34:20 <wehnsdaefflae> hello there! can anyone give me a hint as to why my balance didn't get unlocked after eight hours of waiting? anything going on i don't know about? thanks a lot!
06:40:21 <bonedaddy> its possible the spender has a unlock height that is greater than what 8 hours of mining would get
06:40:41 <bonedaddy> , /s/spender/sender/g
06:42:35 <wehnsdaefflae> thanks for your reply! i don't think so, i got it from changelly and also already did a small transaction from the xmrs i received. but now it's all locked....
06:47:26 <bonedaddy> when did you do the small tx? that likely will lock your entire balance for a bit
06:47:55 <bonedaddy> lets say you receive a tx for 1 XMR and you wait for it to unlock, and them immediately send a tx forf 0.1 XMR that will likely lock the entire remaining 0.9XMR
06:48:33 <bonedaddy> you can somewhat avoid this annoyance by lets say taking 30% of your monero and sending it to 3 different addresses
06:48:56 <bonedaddy> that way if you only need to send 0.1XMR you can do so from a subaddress only locking that subaddress not locking the other subaddresses
06:49:14 <Mochi101> bonedaddy, do you use the CLI ?
06:50:02 <bonedaddy> Mochi101: sort, im using monero-wallet-rpc and interacting with it using https://github.com/monero-ecosystem/go-monero-rpc-client
06:50:15 <bonedaddy> i use a cli i wrote and a service im working on
06:50:23 <Mochi101> If you use the CLI you can do something like "transfer <your address> .1 <your address> .1 <your address> .1 <your address> .1 <your address> .1 <your address> .1
06:50:30 <bonedaddy> oh shit
06:50:35 <bonedaddy> bigbrain move right there
06:50:52 <Mochi101> Then the next time you send something to an external address you have it broken down into smaller outputs already.
06:51:07 <bonedaddy> thats so much better wow
06:51:12 <Mochi101> I just costs you the tx fee to do it.
06:51:23 <bonedaddy> yea but you can always get real cheap with the tx fees if you want
06:51:25 <Mochi101> So, less than 1 cent.
06:51:29 <Mochi101> ;)
06:51:41 <bonedaddy> compared to ETH right now thats so cheap lmao
06:51:43 <wehnsdaefflae> bonedaddy, yeah... that's more or less what i did. thanks for the explanation. is an eight hour lock to be expected from this?
06:51:55 <bonedaddy> wehnsdaefflae: locks should be limited to 20 minutes i think
06:52:14 <wehnsdaefflae> well that's really strange then
06:52:55 <Mochi101> unless you use lockedtransfer <address> <amount>
06:53:06 <Mochi101> then you can set it for 10k blocks if you want
06:53:30 <Mochi101> might be locked_transfer (i forget the actual command at the moment)
06:53:43 <wehnsdaefflae> Mochi101 i wouldn't know how to do this but can i check if it is manually locked?
07:00:50 <Mochi101> wehnsdaefflae, easiest way would go to a block explorer and put in the tx hash, then at the bottom will be an option to expand the info or more data or something... you can see in there
07:01:15 <wehnsdaefflae> Mochi101 cool, i'll try that
07:02:19 <Mochi101> in the block explorer it'll have an option "more details" then "Show JSON representation of tx" look in there for "unlock_time": 0,
07:02:41 <Mochi101> if it's anything other than 0 then it was set purposefully.
07:03:20 <Mochi101> wehnsdaefflae, are you using a local daemon or remote daemon?
07:03:30 <Mochi101> Make sure your chain is fully synced too hey.
07:04:51 <wehnsdaefflae> Mochi101 i'm using a local deamon. and yeah,  i don't think it's fully synced. that lock after the first transaction just really threw me off
07:05:26 <Mochi101> Letting it fully sync will likely solve most of your problems.
07:06:43 <wehnsdaefflae> Mochi101 cool. thanks!
07:06:50 <wehnsdaefflae> Mochi101 i tried it with a webwallet before and it didn't even show my balance.
07:07:30 <Mochi101> I don't know anything about web wallets. :)
07:07:37 <wehnsdaefflae> Mochi101 uh... also https://moneroblocks.info/ says it was a confidential transaction... there's no "more details" :(
07:08:06 <Mochi101> use xmrchain.net
07:09:04 <wehnsdaefflae> Mochi101 it says unlock time 0, so that's nice to know. thx
12:38:19 <multifractal> Within my monero wallet I have 2 accounts A and B. I need to send someone a payment of X coins, but each of these accounts holds less than X coins. But together they add up to more than X coins. My question: can I send the contents of account A to account B (by selecting account A, going to the send panel in the GUI, and inputting the address of account B, and sending the entire contents), so that all the coins are consolidated into
12:38:19 <multifractal> account B? Then I have enough to make the payment of X to my friend.
12:38:41 <moneromooo> Yes.
12:39:35 <moneromooo> If you have several outputs in A and you send them at once, an outside observer will be able to tell all these coins are very likely owned by one person.
12:39:57 <moneromooo> If you then do the same with B, an outside observer will be able to tell all these coins are very likely owned by the same person.
12:40:51 <multifractal> moneromooo: what do you mean by several outputs?
12:41:10 <moneromooo> More than one.
12:41:25 <moneromooo> s/outputs/coins/
12:51:50 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] Yonatan#6948>: How do I generate a subaddress in the CLI wallet?
12:51:56 <endor00[m]> What about sweeping single outputs and sending those individually to the new wallet?
12:52:27 <endor00[m]> s/new wallet/second address
12:53:35 <moneromooo> address new
12:58:31 <mmxxx[m]> So, ciphertrace...
13:21:53 <Inge-> what about them?
13:22:03 <Inge-> proof-of-pressrelease?
13:38:22 <Mochi101> PoP
13:39:32 <yanmaani> Hype I'd say. You put out a press release saying you can track the secret currency, the crypto outlets write "ciphertrace claims to be able to trace monero", customers hire you for boring standard jobs of tracing bitcoin, $$$
13:40:27 <yanmaani> (If anyone asks questions, you claim your method of tracing Monero is a confidential trade secret)
13:41:30 <alexanarcho[m]> guess we will find out once the first arrests are made based on xmr transactions
13:57:05 <bakewell> This video on the Monero Space channel on YouTube is an interview with the CEO of CipherTrace. Interesting to listen to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5rtd3md11g
14:02:24 <Inge-> it boils down to if they can apply some external data (e.g. mining pools, exchanges) with heuristics to probabilistically determine which ring members is the actual output being spent.
14:02:54 <Inge-> Which is basically what has been discussed in the community for years, has seen some mitigation and will see more in the future - and probably only works in some specific cases.
14:03:01 <alexanarcho[m]> am i correct to assume that once trypich is active this analysis will become MUCH harder
14:03:25 <dEBRUYNE> Yes
14:03:29 <Inge-> Triptych, or one of the other candidates, is likely still 1-2 years out I'd wager - but absolutely
14:03:31 <dEBRUYNE> Though some edge cases will still exist
14:03:37 <dEBRUYNE> Especially if combined with off-chain data
14:03:53 <alexanarcho[m]> yeah.. whatever happened to kovri?
14:04:05 <alexanarcho[m]> will there be some alternative to obfuscating the network_
14:04:07 <alexanarcho[m]> or is tor the way to go
14:04:09 <Inge-> you can run over tor or i2p today
14:04:23 <moneromooo> anonimal kinda moved over to another project, which would be a layer above kovri.
14:04:34 <Inge-> and also remember that even if I told you my real spend, on-chain there is NO WAY for you to find out the amount spent, or the address it was sent to (or the address it came from)
14:05:29 <Inge-> and some hygiene with your outputs will also make it far FAR more difficult to apply their heuristics. We don't know how good those are, and they have not yet provided any compelling evidence that it is good at all.
14:06:41 <dEBRUYNE> alexanarcho[m]: You can also use i2p-zero
15:56:22 <yanmaani> alexanarcho[m]: No. They'll arrest someone because they had extremely sloppy opsec procedures, then they will make vague mumblings about "Monero isn't as secure as people thought it was"
15:56:25 <yanmaani> (see: Tor)
16:01:37 <louipc> lol
16:06:46 <yanmaani> what I don't understand is why Monero doesn't send transactions over UDP, if possible
16:06:55 <yanmaani> then there's no need for a source IP
16:08:34 <moneromooo> It's a very simple reason, which applies to so many things everywhere. Nobody did it.
16:08:58 <asymptotically> don't a lot of isps and routers start rejecting your packets if you mess around like that?
16:09:30 <yanmaani> asymptotically: Maybe, true. You'd want some sort of 'UDP spoof ping' to start off
16:09:37 <moneromooo> Also, UDP would have sucked with 13 kB txes. Even current txes are more than the MTU.
16:10:04 <yanmaani> How big are they right now?
16:10:13 <moneromooo> Something like 2.5 kB I think.
16:10:45 <yanmaani> I'm sort of curious why you couldn't just bundle Tor and connect to the node to send a tx. It won't be waterproof (it can still reasonably assume it's a peer or a peer's peer), but it should be much better
16:11:00 <yanmaani> not as straightforward to do IP logging
16:11:45 <moneromooo> I don't think we can't. Unless convincing reasons are given.
16:11:58 <yanmaani> well, bundling tor is a bit big
16:12:55 <moneromooo> Bigger than i2p ?
16:13:19 <moneromooo> I mean, the gui ships with i2p IIRC
16:13:20 <yanmaani> 42M?
16:13:33 <yanmaani> the GUI is not tiny, so you have a point there
16:14:13 <moneromooo> Anyway, assuming you heard/assumed wrong with it being impossible, it's that old "nobody did it" again. It really does explain a lot of things everywhere.
16:20:30 <artefact> probably much easier to bundle i2p
16:20:39 <yanmaani> artefact: lower anonymity set
16:20:41 <artefact> just beacuse the requirements for being a i2p node are much more relaxed than being a tor bridge
16:21:03 <yanmaani> being a tor bridge will cause you problems also
16:21:14 <artefact> tor is more centralised than you think- if the gurus don't want you to run a node, they will erase you from the list
16:21:16 <yanmaani> But I don't think 1circuit/txn is gonna cause any severe load
16:21:23 <moneromooo> If a client uses tor, it can reach any clearnet node. Not so for i2p.
16:21:25 <yanmaani> Especially not if it uses hidden services
16:21:38 <yanmaani> artefact: That only happens for serious misconduct
16:22:09 <artefact> and the requirements (in terms of bandwidth and uptime) to be a bridge are too high for most people. afaik you can't have a reachable .onion address if you don't run a bridge
16:22:18 <yanmaani> artefact: That's not true
16:22:36 <yanmaani> You are probably thinking of a relay, not a bridge
16:22:47 <artefact> yes
16:22:49 <yanmaani> there's no requirement to run one, but it won't get much use if it's too bad/slow/unreliable
16:22:55 <artefact> they're the same anyway, just advertised or not
16:22:57 <yanmaani> but also, you don't need to run one to run an onion
16:23:02 <yanmaani> in fact it's advised against
17:01:25 <bigslim[m]> 86k blocks to update. Bets on how long it takes....
17:06:48 <bigslim[m]> Omg 15.03. Had to update that
17:09:05 <dsc_> Re: bundling Tor - static is about 3.5mb and suppose you could UPX it further
18:05:05 <yanmaani> dsc_: UPX? come on man
18:05:11 <yanmaani> strip it if you must
18:05:18 <yanmaani> but UPX is just gauche
18:05:19 <dsc_> musl + only use the functions from libc
18:05:26 <moneromooo> Rewrite in assembler.
18:05:30 <dsc_> exactly
18:05:38 <yanmaani> dsc_: What do you mean "only use the functions from libc"?
18:05:51 <dsc_> strip it such that you only use stuff from libc that you need
18:05:57 <moneromooo> ROP.
18:06:23 <asymptotically> gotta hit em with the -ffunction-sections and then the -Wl,--gc-sections
18:06:40 <asymptotically> and then get knocked out anyway because your binary is still yuge
18:07:00 <dsc_> I actually have no idea what I'm talking about so ill just quietly leave this conversation
18:07:05 * dsc_ flies away
19:36:28 <artefact> write it in kkrunchified minified glsl ;-)
19:37:48 <asymptotically> wen 64K monero daemon?
19:39:17 <dsc_> new monero CDN: www.pouet.net
19:39:59 <artefact> revision 2021 seminar idea: "a blockchain in 64K"
19:40:17 <manifest> tfw no amiga monero machine
19:41:14 <artefact> tfw no 2nd reality in a smart contract
19:44:11 <asymptotically> manifest: come to my house and play lemmings on my amiga with me <3
19:44:56 <manifest> one day
20:57:45 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] Yonatan#6948>: We seriously need more wallets to support Monero
20:58:06 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] Yonatan#6948>: With an option to spend unconfirmed funds
20:58:22 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] Yonatan#6948>: Because Monero is supposed to be cash after all
20:58:44 <asymptotically> once i modified the wallet to spend unconfirmed funds and that is a bad idea(TM)
20:59:11 <asymptotically> all these nice developers spending a lot of time figuring out how to make all of our transactions look the same and not stand out, and then we go change the rules :D
21:02:59 <derpy_bridge_> <[discord] Yonatan#6948>: Yeah but we need that feature for adoption
21:04:16 <asymptotically> just hold more monero so that you can have it spread across more txos ;)
21:04:42 <artefact> many inputs is also bad for other reasons
21:05:06 <asymptotically> isn't the problem when you spend multiple of them at once? or is there something else
21:05:42 <artefact> yeah
21:09:01 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> i need help
21:13:09 <artefact> don't ask to ask
21:13:16 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> is there a support email i can email to?
21:14:08 <yanmaani> just ask here
21:14:10 <yanmaani> or post on the forum
21:15:51 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> i swtiched some btc on flyp.me yesterday and the transaction is confrmed on the blockchain already but my gui wallet is still showing a 0 balance
21:16:20 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> i know i didnt put in my wallet address wrong since it was copy and paste
21:16:33 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> but its been hours.. since last night and still a 0 balance
21:17:43 <moneromooo> Check the wallet's refresh-from-block-height is set to some height lower than the tx's height.
21:17:54 <moneromooo> Somewhere in the options I believe.
21:18:21 <selsta> kinglouie23: does it say synchronized in the bottom left corner?
21:20:04 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> yes it says synchronized when i start it up.. but it does say disconnected and then connected every once in a while for the network status
21:20:24 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> what should i have the wallet restore height at
21:20:33 <moneromooo> some height lower than the tx's height.
21:20:49 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> and thanks again guys for the help..
21:21:01 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> sorry kind of a noob at this.. how do i know the tx's height?
21:21:08 <moneromooo> If it was higher, you'll need to rescan after setting it to some height lower than the tx's height.
21:21:15 <moneromooo> Do you have its txid ?
21:21:59 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> oh yes i see what you mean now
21:22:00 <moneromooo> Likely, since you said it was confirmed. Then, in monerod: print_tx THISTXID
21:22:10 <moneromooo> It'll say "found in the chain at block X" or words to that effect.
21:22:25 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> so the one on my wallet has to be lower?
21:22:35 <selsta> yes
21:23:04 <selsta> but you also have to make sure that your wallet says synchronized in the bottom left corner, not disconnected
21:23:06 <moneromooo> Tell us if it was higher.
21:23:14 <moneromooo> Cause it shouldn't be really.
21:24:09 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> it says disonnected again
21:24:17 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> is there a reason it keeps disconnecting?
21:24:32 <moneromooo> You'll likely see the reason if you set log level to 1.
21:25:24 <selsta> kinglouie23: as a first step, can you go into Settings -> Info and say which wallet mode you have selected?
21:25:36 <selsta> Simple mode or advanced mode?
21:25:41 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> advancedadvanced :
21:25:54 <selsta> okay, then under Settings -> Node did you select local or remote node?
21:26:15 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> local
21:26:24 <selsta> Is this on Windows?
21:26:29 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> yes
21:26:38 <selsta> did you sync up the blockchain in the past?
21:27:03 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> dont think so
21:27:06 <selsta> also did you make sure that your antivirus has an exception for monerod?
21:27:19 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> i have not
21:27:30 <selsta> because it sounds like the gui wants to start the daemon and it gets killed by antivirus or so
21:28:44 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> oh okay.. how do i not let it do that
21:29:26 <selsta> maybe this https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/10798/my-antivirus-av-software-blocks-quarantines-the-monero-gui-wallet-is-there
21:31:09 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> okay i will try and do that. it seems that is the issue becasue everytime it tries to sync it fails and says disconnected
21:33:56 <selsta> wait, another method you can do
21:34:09 <selsta> go to your monero-wallet-gui folder and open monerod.exe manually
21:34:14 <selsta> then see if it stays open
21:37:27 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> okay ill try that.. that other method is a little complicated
21:43:20 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> sorry im having issues and thanks again for all your helpsorry im having issues and thanks again for all your help :
21:43:34 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> where do i go from here? im just a little lost on all this
21:43:40 <selsta> no problem
21:43:57 <selsta> so what happens when you open monerod.exe ? do you know where you can find it?
21:44:20 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> i cant find it
21:44:51 <selsta> maybe anti virus deleted it?
21:45:29 <selsta> anyway, you can optionally set a remote node if you can’t get this working with monerod
21:45:48 <selsta> go to settings -> node and select remote node
21:46:15 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> ok
21:46:48 <selsta> then enter e.g. address: node.xmr.to port: 18081
21:46:50 <moneromooo> That'd be amazing. People being pushed into less secure stuff because of antivirus programs...
21:47:00 <moneromooo> What a fail.
21:47:20 <selsta> anti virus has deleted monerod in the past :/
21:48:03 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> ok so type that address where it says remote node right?ok so type that address where it says remote node right? :
21:48:23 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> yeah i know thank you so much again. im kinda new to all this stuff still
21:48:26 <sech1> I feel more secure without surveillance antivirus scanning everything on my PC and sending samples "for analysis"
21:48:44 <selsta> kinglouie23: enter node.xmr.to into address, 18081 into port
21:48:56 <selsta> you can also search the internet for other remote nodes
21:50:57 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> okay is synching lets see how it goes
21:51:09 <selsta> sech1: I often see people running multiple AV for "extra security" lol
21:51:23 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> thanks again so much lol.. you dont knw how much it means
21:51:39 <selsta> report back if your funds show up
21:52:48 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> i will.. i should give it some time right? i did the transaction last night but i shouldnt expect anything automatically right?
21:53:34 <selsta> yes, you have to wait until it is fully synched up
21:55:45 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> okay will do.. also i think earlier in the conversation it was mentioned that my wallet's height has to be lower than the one on the transaction? it changed and i think its higher now.. sorry if im not making sense
21:57:42 <yanmaani> why does monerod have the antivirus problem?
21:58:12 <selsta> ask antivirus companies, most likely because miner code is included
21:58:18 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> just making sure.. everythings lookinggood right?just making sure.. everythings lookinggood right? :
21:58:20 <moneromooo> Various botnets embed a monero miner as payload. AV makers shoot from hte hip.
21:58:50 <selsta> kinglouie23: wait until it is fully synched, if it does not show up report back
21:59:08 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> ok!
21:59:15 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> thanks again so much
22:04:47 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> is this saying the daemon couldnt connect?is this saying the daemon couldnt connect? :
22:05:09 <selsta> does it still sync?
22:05:22 <selsta> you can ignore  the message if yes
22:05:40 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> it says wallet is synchronized and it stays like that
22:06:04 <selsta> okay, no funds?
22:06:12 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> no not yet
22:06:17 <selsta> okay, do you have your seed?
22:06:29 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> where can i find that?
22:06:53 <selsta> Settings -> Wallet -> Show seed
22:07:06 <selsta> write it down on paper, you need it to restore your wallet
22:07:54 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> ok yes i have it i had written it down
22:08:29 <selsta> okay, click on the exit icon in the top left corner, then click on "Restore wallet from keys or seed"
22:09:01 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> ok
22:09:11 <selsta> then enter a unique wallet name and enter the seed
22:10:37 <selsta> inside wallet creation date enter a date that was before you first received any monero into this wallet, e.g. 2020-09-01 if you first received Monero this month.
22:11:46 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> okay so if i received money yestereday should i put in august 31st?
22:12:03 <selsta> yes, you can enter 2020-08-31
22:13:34 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> ok! wallet is synching now
22:13:52 <selsta> hope it shows up now
22:16:54 <moneromooo> What was the previous value ?
22:29:47 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> yay:)
22:29:52 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> my funds are in
22:29:59 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> thank you soososoosososososso much
22:30:19 <xmrmatterbridge> <kinglouie23> 🙂