00:03:35 <ghost_matrix[m]> What are some ways I can use Monero for life purchases?  I want to spread its use! And I want more places to accept it.
00:03:35 <ghost_matrix[m]> What are some ways I can use it?
00:04:11 <ghost_matrix[m]> I'm 100% sold on privacy coins
00:04:30 <jwinterm> ghost_matrix[m], buy drugs online?
00:08:04 <Inge-> people are worried about sending other people button, since if that other person mixes them, the sender can get their exchange account frozen  - https://twitter.com/NicolasDorier/status/1290846243552284673?s=19
00:09:24 <strike> nice lol
00:11:51 <Inge->  /button/bitcoin
00:12:48 <jwinterm> !ban anaphylaxis6
00:13:49 <ghost_matrix[m]> He can't make up his mind lol
00:26:38 <ghost_matrix[m]> > people are worried about sending other people button, since if that other person mixes them, the sender can get their exchange account frozen  - https://twitter.com/NicolasDorier/status/1290846243552284673?s=19
00:26:38 <ghost_matrix[m]> That's nuts! So the sender gets flagged by the exchange!?!? Clearly monitored
01:31:06 <gingeropolous> i wonder if you could somehow bake software updates into the code + blockchain itself.
01:31:17 <gingeropolous> like, ... i think this was mentioned at some point before
01:31:48 <gingeropolous> but basically, the top block also communicates the current code diffs
01:32:25 <gingeropolous> and if a node sees that otherwise the higher chain meets consensus if following these rules
01:32:35 <gingeropolous> of the code diff, then the node should adopt these diffs
01:32:42 <gingeropolous> hrm, it would have to compile or something
01:32:49 <gingeropolous> something something blockchain
08:36:16 <kayront> ghost_matrix[m]: you can purchase VPNs, domains, VPSes, accomodation (travala.com), flights (travala, cheapair (via xmr.to)), countless giftcards at bitrefill (via xmr.to) etc
08:37:31 <kayront> <ghost_matrix[m]> That's nuts! So the sender gets flagged by the exchange!?!? Clearly monitored --> an entirely predictable thing that the wider crypto community has made a very hard effort of putting their heads in the sand and not see for years. now it's all being (predictably) implemented and the theoretical is becoming reality
08:38:33 <kayront> imagine trying to fight a battle where your enemy can see your every move as you're making it, even in the pre-battle stage. it can read the communications between all your generals and lieutenants. it knows the positions of all your soldiers
08:38:41 <kayront> to my mind that seems like a very poor idea
09:30:54 <Inge-> Not if I am defending against you.
09:30:59 <Inge-> Then it seems like a grand idea
10:13:04 <artefact> many organisations also take btc/xmr donations, like the EFF
10:14:21 <alexanarcho[m]> tor project too i think, even unicef accepts xmr
11:47:09 <kayront> exactly Inge-
11:47:58 <kayront> the track record of statism is laid bare for anyone to examine, at least for now. do we really want statists - anyone, really - to hold so much power over 7 billion people?
11:48:32 <moneromooo> A state is just a gang that got so poewrful it doesn't need violence anymore, just the concealed promise of it.
11:48:41 <kayront> it's a bit like having a system where when a baby is born, a kill switch is implemented. and we're supposed to trust it's only going to be used against "criminals"
11:48:47 <kayront> many checks and balances, we're assured
11:48:50 <moneromooo> So if you remove states, you'll just get smaller gangs, and actual violence.
11:48:53 <kayront> how about no, don't build that system in the first place
11:49:21 <moneromooo> That's what people are. You'll always get some willing to use violence to make others do what they want.
11:49:33 <moneromooo> Like DoSing pools who won't do anything to stop being > 50%.
11:49:49 <kayront> yes, but perhaps we shouldn't put them in power
11:50:16 <moneromooo> Did we ?
11:50:27 <kayront> not me personally, maybe not you
11:50:31 <moneromooo> Do we have any election where, if most people don't vote, nobody is elected ?
11:50:39 <moneromooo> We don't. Someone does.
11:50:56 <moneromooo> So you don't put someone in power, you just aovid the worst ones in power.
11:51:10 <moneromooo> And even that doesn't work, since the worst ones do get in power anyway.
11:51:15 <moneromooo> (sometimes)
11:51:47 <kayront> i have an idea for a post i might write soon, something like "Monero's marketing problem"
11:52:17 <kayront> most of the time, i have found, even pro-freedom, small-government kind of people don't know and/or use monero
11:52:54 <kayront> i think a big part of the reason why we're losing ground is that most people don't even realize there is a problem - i have been doing my famous street approaches again recently, care to bet on how many people out of 30 even knew of FATF?
11:52:57 <artefact> reminds me of a document i read recently from the lead freenet developer: https://www.draketo.de/anderes/honest-marketing.pdf
11:53:10 <kayront> the answer is zero
11:53:32 <kayront> young, middle aged, even tried a grandpa or two. man or woman. it didn't matter. no one knew
11:55:23 <kayront> it's such a simple thing - transfer value without leaving a record for the thought police to examine. and such a fundamental thing. to this day i don't understand why it doesn't click with most people, even the ones already in crypto
11:56:29 <moneromooo> Humans can get used to a lot of stuff, it just takes time. Most got use to being spied on by everyone, it just becomes background.
11:56:33 <kayront> artefact: timing out here. do they block tor?
11:56:54 <artefact> as much as i love blockchains, there is no forward secrecy, and that is a problem imho
11:57:02 <artefact> kayront: let me check
11:57:19 <kayront> i don't think it registers very consciously with them moneromooo; i have this line where i ask if they'd be fine with having a police officer with them at all times, including at home, looking over everything they read, learning who their friends are, etc
11:57:30 <kayront> when it's made physical, it's like it suddenly clicks in their brain
11:57:58 <kayront> i suspect this is because as technical people, we can actually "see the pipes" in our minds, so it's physical to us (we can visualize it)
12:22:49 <Inge-> I know for a fact people self-censor in social media
12:23:19 <artefact> obviously. same reason nobody acts natural when you tell them “you're being filmed, act natural!”
12:24:12 <Inge-> best example was the british couple going to New Your City for the weekend who posted on their facebook that they were going to "Bomb NYC"  (as in partying hard I guess...)
12:24:24 <Inge-> got sent home by CBP/DHS on entry
12:25:48 <d4ndo[m]> »Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.« Oscar Wilde
12:32:12 <thrmo_> <artefact> as much as i love blockchains, there is no forward secrecy, and that is a problem imho
12:32:13 <thrmo_> yup
12:48:01 <cutemoneroboy2> Wow the monero hashrate!
12:48:23 <cutemoneroboy2> 2.39 GH/s
12:49:14 <cutemoneroboy2> wondered why my mining return estimates plunged
12:50:00 <endor00[m]> reported hashrate by pools was 2.9
12:50:06 <endor00[m]> now down to 2.5
12:50:10 <niocbrrrrrr> kayront: FATF? most people don't know what money is
12:51:09 <artefact> i mean, it's not an easy question
12:51:22 <moneromooo> It's... it's... Hmmm... Or, the first two syllables of monero.
13:24:06 <xmrmatterbridge> <vancleef> VanCleef is very new to crypto, is not a coder, designer, or gamer.  VanCleef is oldschool
13:31:24 <artefact> kayront: is it still timing out? i tested it myself in tor-browser and it worked
13:34:43 <msvb-lab> Defcon: The Monero Village (and Defcon in general) is opening at 9:00 UTC-7, in a few hours.
13:34:53 <msvb-lab> Whoever is interested can read about it on:
13:34:54 <msvb-lab> https://defcon.org/html/defcon-safemode/dc-safemode-villages.html#monero
13:35:46 <artefact> “Crypto & Privacy Village ” location: discord channel. how ironic
13:39:35 <artefact> and the schedule is... a google calendar. :D
13:42:27 <artefact> aouch, i'm in utc+2 so all the talks are mostly in the middle of the night
15:09:17 <exquisitebead> Hi, I have $50 Amazon gift card for sale for btc.
15:11:35 <sethsimmons> You’re not even accepting Monero in the Monero IRC channel?
15:11:42 <sethsimmons> .confused
15:11:53 <moneromooo> Probably a scam.
15:12:08 <sethsimmons> More than likely
15:29:03 <exquisitebead> It's not
15:29:31 <msvb-lab> Defcon and the Monero Village is opening in a half hour (6-9 August 2020.) https://www.defcon.org/
15:29:38 <msvb-lab> Sorry for the off topic announcement, I couldn't help it.
15:30:18 <artefact> fifty bucks? isn't that pretty much the cost of doing a transaction in xbt nowadays? :P
15:30:23 <exquisitebead> I dunno.
15:30:31 <exquisitebead> Help me out?
15:30:42 <artefact> it's not really the right place for that.
15:30:58 <exquisitebead> I've been helped here before.
15:31:58 <exquisitebead> Anyone?
15:35:13 * dsc_ hits auction hammer
15:35:25 <exquisitebead> Help me out.
15:35:53 * dsc_ hits ban hammer
15:38:19 <exquisitebead> What channel can I go to
15:42:26 <exquisitebead> You guys got btc I'm trying to buy
15:42:47 <exquisitebead> I have a legit Amazon card
15:43:20 <moneromooo> Monero and Bitcoin are distinct cryptocurrencies. They're similar, but not the same.
15:43:22 <asymptotically> exquisitebead: try bitcointalk.org or #bitcoin-otc - this channel is for monero (a different cryptocurrency)
15:43:26 <moneromooo> Some mod pleas help him out, I can't.
15:46:55 <raecarruth> exquisitebead: head on over to purse.io
15:47:11 <raecarruth> make an amazon purchase and receive btc in exchange
15:47:20 <raecarruth> if your card is genuine...
15:47:45 <exquisitebead> Tyty
15:48:29 <exquisitebead> Nono
15:48:38 <exquisitebead> The card for btc
15:48:49 <exquisitebead> Like 45$ btc
15:49:23 <raecarruth> yes, that's what I mean
15:49:32 <raecarruth> you use your card to make an amazon purchase
15:49:41 <raecarruth> on behalf of somebody else
15:49:46 <raecarruth> they receive the item
15:49:52 <raecarruth> and they pay you in btc
15:50:14 <moneromooo> Oooh, that's nice. Does the buyer have any privacy from the site operator ?
15:51:16 <raecarruth> in theory
15:51:23 <raecarruth> so long as you don't use real details
15:51:35 <kinghat[m]> <msvb-lab "Defcon and the Monero Village is"> is it a live stream or?
15:51:44 <raecarruth> or what?
15:51:53 <raecarruth> you think they'll be meeting in person mid covid?
15:51:56 <raecarruth> o_0
15:52:13 <artefact> its xbt. there's no privacy
15:52:13 <selsta> I would avoid purse.io
15:52:51 <selsta> lots of stolen credit cards and gift cards are used there
15:53:07 <selsta> I have heard that people got visit from police from ordering there
15:53:16 <raecarruth> artefact: you can use xmr.to
15:53:31 <raecarruth> i've been doing so without issue
15:53:33 <moneromooo> Hmm. Not surprising in retrospect. Thanks.
15:53:52 <raecarruth> stolen credit cards are used for amazon in general...
15:54:02 <raecarruth> and every other retail outlet
15:54:22 <selsta> right but your address shows up together with stolen credit / gift cards
15:54:33 <raecarruth> don't use 'your' address
15:54:36 * raecarruth shrugs
15:54:58 <moneromooo> Ah, but I'd want to receive whatver I'm ordering.
15:55:20 <moneromooo> I suppose you could order to a place across town, and intercept the shipping truck :D
15:55:28 <raecarruth> ...
15:55:38 <raecarruth> come on guys
15:55:41 <raecarruth> get creative
15:55:45 <moneromooo> Helicopter rappeling onto the truck, make hole in roof, extract item, fly away ?
15:55:49 <raecarruth> i expect better from you
15:56:31 <moneromooo> I dunno, I just like privacy for ethical reasons, not criminal ones.
15:57:37 <raecarruth> it isn't criminal if it's a genuine amazon card and you want btc
15:57:44 <raecarruth> not everyone using is it a criminal
15:57:49 <raecarruth> no more than everyone using fiat
15:58:08 <moneromooo> Why am I even participating in this... /me out
15:59:38 <exquisitebead> Selsta got btc
15:59:48 <selsta> no
16:00:08 <raecarruth> i have btc :)
16:00:24 <raecarruth> but i have no use for a 45 usd amazon gift card...
16:07:01 <dsc_> This is a Monero channel
16:07:05 <dsc_> Not Amazon or Bitcoin
16:07:09 <Prox1> ^
16:07:13 <dsc_> We prefer to speak about Monero
16:07:30 <dsc_> Speaking of Monero, I'm too lazy to look at Github - what's the status on 14 word seeds ? :P
16:08:10 <dsc_> Just wondering if any new wallet could just adopt this 14 word seed scheme and ignore legacy
16:08:32 <dsc_> (or provide an utility to convert legacy to new)
16:11:31 <artefact> what's wrong with 25?
16:13:43 <dsc_> artefact: What I like most about the 14 word seed is the fact the restore height is embedded into it
17:14:29 <raecarruth> Skirmant: exquisitebead said to ask about him
17:14:41 <ruied> Hello. I can add a new address "address new". Can I remove that address if I want to?
17:15:20 <moneromooo> No. Addresses are deterministic from your keys. It's always going to be yours.
17:18:54 <ruied> ok. when should I use a new address to receive xmr? Asking this so I can create only the small address possible not creating to much addresses. Any advice?
17:19:59 <moneromooo> Are you a merchant ?
17:19:59 <Prox1> I make a new address if it's for something else
17:20:08 <Prox1> One for me one for my servers.
17:21:29 <moneromooo> Assuming you're not and just want to withdraw from an exchange, say, then the straightforward way is to create a subaddress for this exchange. It already has an account for you, so it'll know when you withdraw a second time, no need to create a new one then.
17:21:41 <moneromooo> If you use another exchange, create a second subaddress for that one.
17:21:51 <artefact> afaik it's fine to reuse addresses if you always give the same address to the same person
17:21:57 <moneromooo> If you're a merchant, it's more complicated as you'd need to do it automatically.
17:22:20 <artefact> but if you give the same address to two different people, then they can use that data to deanonymise you
17:23:09 <raecarruth> why not use integrated_address?
17:23:17 <raecarruth> isn't that what it's for?
17:23:23 <artefact> they're for merchants afaik
17:23:50 <raecarruth> i'm not 'merchant' but i use them
17:24:02 <raecarruth> *no 'merchant'
17:24:06 <artefact> the generated addresses may look different, but they are not different
17:24:41 <artefact> for merchants this is fine because they don't really need to hide their identity from their clients
17:25:15 <raecarruth> ok, i'm just now understanding his use case
17:26:26 <ruied> do not want to use the same address from different accounts (ex: binance; coinswitch; exodus) and if I use it as a merchant later I would like to have different addresses for different cliente.
17:27:45 <raecarruth> i tend not to use too many exchanges nowadays
17:27:52 <raecarruth> none of those that you've listed anyhow
17:30:46 <ruied> I am learning all possibilities to know a bit better to use the wallet with some fungibility and not make some mistakes and lose my xmrs. Now I have it (in some custodial and non custodial wallets). I am configuring my linux pc (specific for xmr, btc and others) with new  cli wallets so I can get 90%  "off-grid"...
17:33:27 <ruied> mainly I use exodus, seemed ok (easy to start and use with own private keys, but high fees) to start, but I am now preparing to move 90% cryptos to my own local wallets... but I have to know what I am doing...
17:33:55 <ruied> I want to get out of exchanges asap and get just 10% in exodus or something like that...
17:35:05 <sethsimmons> That’s a good effort to make, ruied 🙂
17:35:22 <sethsimmons> The GUI wallet is very simple to use IMO, so I’d take a look at that if you’re not too familiar with CLI/CLI wallets
17:35:41 <sethsimmons> Or if you want a dead-simple experience use a mobile wallet like Cake Wallet or Monerujo, especially for smaller amounts
17:38:51 <ruied> I am used to linux cli (I have the gui working) but I think I prefer cli (more secure in my opinion). After I transfer 90% to my local wallets, I will investigate Monerujo / Cake Wallet for the small amounts in daily use...
17:40:11 <dsc_> I always appreciate it if someone takes time to learn the CLI, it's well worth it :)
17:40:41 <dsc_> rather robust way of interfacing with your Monero
17:43:24 <ruied> I agree.. more time spent but more knowledge... less efford later on... :)
17:43:25 <sethsimmons> For sure, if you’re comfortable with it that’s probably the most fully-fledged way to interact with Monero.
17:43:34 <sethsimmons> Please let us know if you run into any issues or have any questions!
17:48:07 <ruied> ok, thanks! I now have a remote server with 4 deamons always sync (xmr is one of them). From my local computer (with encrypted fs I run the cli wallets with --daemon-address of my remote blockchain. Only have the keys in local computer... Forcing my self to learn...
17:48:18 <ruied> Thanks for your help... :)
17:48:35 <moneromooo> Good luck, and good attitude :)
17:54:59 <ruied> thannks! ;)
21:09:57 <kayront> https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/i4oili/crypto_currency_as_currency_have_we_lost/
21:10:04 <kayront> needs some input
21:12:14 <artefact> kayront: you never replied to me wrt the paper i linked. were you able to access it eventually? (unless you don't care)
21:12:30 <kayront> oh, i didn't see more replies
21:12:39 <kayront> did you provide a new link?
21:13:04 <kayront> i tried the previous link a few more times, either server is down or they block tor
21:13:15 <artefact> same link should work. we tested it a few times using tor-browser and it worked
21:13:44 <kayront> that is peculiar
21:13:46 <artefact> if it still dosen't for you, tell me and i'll re-upload it temporarily somewhere else
21:13:55 <kayront> yeah, still not working
21:14:00 <artefact> or you can probably use archive.org/archive.is
21:14:05 <artefact> hang on
21:21:14 <artefact> kayront: http://77.192.207.45:24499/honest-marketing.pdf will be slow but should work
21:21:53 <kayront> got it
21:21:59 <artefact> neato. thanks
21:22:25 <kayront> i'll read it tomorrow and share some thoughts
21:23:15 <artefact> the author is the now lead developer of freenet
21:24:18 <kayront> on the surface the pdf looks juicy
21:41:11 <scoobybejesus> Has anyone recently run .verify-merge.py?  I just git cloned the gitian.sigs repo, and it says "Can't check signature: No public key" for all of them.  Trying on 0.16.0.1 or 0.16.0.0 will have johnathoncross sigs [OK] and then rest can't check.  Any idea  if this is expected?
21:42:10 <selsta> scoobybejesus: did you do `python ./verify-merge.py --import-keys` ?
21:43:22 <scoobybejesus> selsta, i did not.  i didn't (don't) see that in the repo instructions.  i figured it would just look in the folder with all the asc files automatically
21:44:16 <scoobybejesus> i wonder how it could have OK'ed the johnathoncross ones on its own
21:44:40 <selsta> because that’s the only one you have in your GPG keyring
21:44:48 <selsta> apparently
21:45:12 <selsta> --import-keys imports all of the ones inside the repo into your keyring
21:45:22 <scoobybejesus> i dunno how it would have gotten there.  i don't recall doing any gpg stuff before this.  hm
21:45:32 <scoobybejesus> cool, i'll redo real quick
21:46:05 <scoobybejesus> ok, that worked
21:46:13 <scoobybejesus> many thanks, selsta
21:46:40 <selsta> I guess this is your PR? https://github.com/monero-project/gitian.sigs/pull/64
21:47:30 <scoobybejesus> yeah.  i think i'm gonna add another commit with my assert and sig files.  messing with it now
21:48:40 <exquisitebead> I got a $50 Amazon gc for $50 BTC.
21:49:45 <Prox1> You've said this before.
21:50:08 <sethsimmons> Yeah I don't think anyone is gonna do that exquisitebead
21:50:18 <sethsimmons> There are other places to try to sell your GC for surveillance-coin
22:21:41 <artefact> kayront: wrt that reddit link, i'm having a hard time making sense of it all. i don't know much about the internals of other coins, except btc and maybe eth. but it's obvious that in any argument around cryptos, you will run into speculators arguing out of bad faith
22:23:42 <artefact> tl;dr shilling, fud and snake oil
23:04:32 <msvb-lab> Hello Defcon hackers, there will be more Intervillage DIY badges tomorrow. If you wanted one of the sold out items, try again in eight hours.
23:04:51 <msvb-lab> Monero Devices is the only place with the DIY models, Cyphermarket and Hak5 carry the preassembled ones only.