03:00:24 <gingeropolous> so, i know satoshi shouldn't be revered as some godlike entity that brought forth The Truth from the turbulent nether realms of uncollapsed wave functions....
03:00:34 <gingeropolous> but re: centralization, this quote gets me: https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/bitcointalk/287/
03:01:03 <gingeropolous> especially regarding the monero network and the dancing around remote nodes
03:01:23 <gingeropolous> "The current system where every user is a network node is not the intended configuration for large scale.  That would be like every Usenet user runs their own NNTP server.  The design supports letting users just be users.  The more burden it is to run a node, the fewer nodes there will be.  Those few nodes will be big server farms.  The rest will be client nodes that only do transactions and don't generate."
03:01:50 <gingeropolous> i mean, he speaks here of "the rest will be client nodes that only do transactions and don't generate"... yeah, in those days that meant mining
03:02:17 <gingeropolous> but for the monero network, it could be seen as the remote node users being the "letting the users just be users"
03:09:25 <gingeropolous> wonder if by "client nodes" he meant nodes that still have the blockchain or just wallets
03:29:53 <tryphe> sounds like he was hinting at pruned nodes if you regard "network node" as "historical node"
03:31:06 <tryphe> although whether he knew "client nodes" would verify or not, i'm not sure. i assume so?
03:35:21 <gingeropolous> i dunno. if his parallel is nntp, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_News_Transfer_Protocol
03:35:37 <gingeropolous> that positions clients as pretty dumb and useless.
03:35:38 <Quotes> useless? nothing is as useless as »Useless Ethereum Token« (UET®) https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/useless-ethereum-token/
03:35:44 <gingeropolous> lol
03:36:37 <gingeropolous> " client nodes that only do transactions" ... yeah i dunno.
03:37:10 <gingeropolous> that only verify transactions? or receive and push transactions to the server nodes?
03:38:34 <gingeropolous> only do transactions and don't generate. I'd have to imagine he's talking about just running a node vs. running a node and mining
03:40:39 <tryphe> yeah to me it's hard to tell if he meant spv node or pruned node (or maybe both ambiguously), but maybe he didn't realize pruned nodes were possible
04:15:02 <jbg> my interpretation is closer to remote node users than to pruning
04:15:25 <jbg> letting "users just be users", and not having every user be a "network node"
04:16:03 <jbg> it implies that users put some (however small) amount of trust into a third party so that they can just be users
04:16:03 <Quotes> diisssscoonneeeeeee ♪ ┗(＾0＾)┓ ♪
04:18:00 <jbg> which is anathema to a lot of people interested in blockchains now (who want "be your own bank" taken to its logical conclusion), but i don't know if satoshi was all that absolutist about it
04:28:34 <tryphe> i think there's still a lot of grey lines in terms of future roles of network participants, even as when he said that quote. i'm not even sure he know what he meant :p
04:30:37 <tryphe> taking "user" as classically defined in a master/slave model and sticking it into some other model sort of changes the defintion
16:25:08 <cacaosteve> username/password is stored in file monero-wallet-rpc.18081.login, but I searched my whole drive and I do not have that file
16:25:16 <cacaosteve> I did monerod --stagenet no problem
16:25:22 <cacaosteve> then monero-wallet-rpc --stagenet
16:25:29 <cacaosteve> Failed to parse arguments: the option '--rpc-bind-port' is required but missing
16:25:30 <cacaosteve> ?
16:26:38 <moneromooo> Did you use --rpc-bind-port ?
16:33:30 <cacaosteve> yes I tried that as well
16:33:35 <cacaosteve> do I need the wallet cli?
16:34:02 <cacaosteve> I just want to make a wallet and use accounts on the wallet, send and receive
16:34:19 <cacaosteve> I thought it said on the monero web site I don't need wallet cli
16:34:45 <moneromooo> If you want to use a wallet manually, monero-wallet-cli. If you want to use another program to use monero, use monero-wallet-rpc.
16:41:18 <cacaosteve> right. I want to set it up to call the commands from another program
16:41:38 <cacaosteve> i think some of the issue is that I don't have a wallet with a username password yet?
16:41:54 <moneromooo> Easier to create one first with monero-wallet-cli, yes.
16:42:06 <cacaosteve> I should try that
16:52:55 <cacaosteve> okay I think I got it
16:53:05 <cacaosteve> monero-wallet-rpc --stagenet --wallet-file .bitmonero/monerowalletstage --rpc-bind-port 38080 --password ""
16:58:48 <moneromooo> That looks plausible.
18:34:16 <cacaosteve> would it be this? http://localhost:38080/get_balance?account_index=0
18:35:51 <jtgrassie> https://web.getmonero.org/resources/developer-guides/wallet-rpc.html#get_balance
18:36:56 <jtgrassie> there are examples. change the port to match the port you used.
18:37:09 <cacaosteve> ah that's exactly what I'm looking at
18:37:25 <cacaosteve> I'm just trying to put it into Paw or Postman
18:46:58 <cacaosteve> it does seem to work though, thanks
18:47:04 <cacaosteve> with curl
19:45:48 <cacaosteve> to send part of the balance from one account to another do I have to use transfer to send to an address?
19:47:53 <selsta> yes
20:47:32 <yanmaani> jbg: Satoshi specifically envisioned everyone using thin nodes/hosted wallets.
20:48:57 <yanmaani> The problem with remote nodes is not that it's not possible to do SPV for an individual node securely, but that it has some alleged problems if everyone does it.