02:58:56 <gingeropolous> had a curious thought. if we could rebuild the protocols of the internet, how would they be built to protect privacy?
02:59:25 <gingeropolous> like, from the group up? and would this system be different than the existing overlay systems?
02:59:54 <gingeropolous> or is it possible to design something that could be overlayed on tcp/ip but then stand alone on its own
03:01:23 <gingeropolous> its interesting though that it may be difficult to actually implement something different from the ground up, due to the nodal nature of the network, and that of discrete data packets
03:01:32 <gingeropolous> packet switching etc
03:04:17 <gingeropolous> might have to rethink data transmission entirely
03:04:43 <gingeropolous> mebbe. i dunno. whaddoo i know
07:36:32 <endor00[m]> The Yggdrasil project kinda does that. Ipv6 with encryption built-in, as well as some routing stuff that I'm not very familiar with
07:37:32 <endor00[m]> I2P does that as well, they basically rewrote tcp and udp
09:33:19 <yanmaani> gingeropolous: You'd use a replacement for source IPs, so that it's an unique identifier changing for each hop, and you'd allow networks to null-route other networks without having to use a DoS scrubber.
12:23:55 <guernsey> hello
12:30:54 <gingeropolous> right endor00[m] , but i2p is still built upon the existing network protocols, which ultimately enable tracking etc. though i guess if everyones on i2p thats different... but it feels similar to the problem of stapling privacy onto a transparent blockchain
12:31:38 <gingeropolous> well not tracking i guess
12:32:21 <endor00[m]> You can look at it like the monero blockchain: everyone can read the chain and see the transactions (equivalent to the network packets), but nobody can see their content
12:32:37 <gingeropolous> right right
12:38:37 <gingeropolous> i guess i was wondering if there's a way to achieve the functionality of the internet without network packets.
12:40:13 <gingeropolous> because the packet, as a concept, seems to be the fundamental thing that engenders tracing
12:41:34 <gingeropolous> compared to, say, broadcast via emf .. radiowaes. yes, they in theory can be triangulated i guess, but that property isn't a fundamental component of its design
12:43:14 <gingeropolous> but i could also not know wtf im talking about
12:53:50 <guernsey> how to create v12 coinbase transaction not by monero but from any tool,script etc
13:41:51 <scoobybejesus> "This is why we can't have nice things."  Prior devs who forked monero w/out understanding much of the codebase filled up everyone's daemon logs with "Found peer with higher version. Blah blah blah."  I think we'd all appreciate less of that.
13:42:20 <scoobybejesus> .. even if it's no longer printed to stdout
13:45:40 <endor00[m]> <gingeropolous "compared to, say, broadcast via "> Look up OSI layers. The physical method of transmission of a signal is a different layer from the way the signal is interpreted and information is encoded within it
13:46:14 <endor00[m]> * Look up OSI layers. The physical method of transmission of a signal is a different layer from the way the signal is interpreted and information is encoded within that signal
13:46:27 <moneromooo> Not sure it's that. It might be people doing it on purpose just to scream "look at me".
13:48:16 <manifest> filling up yo log drive-DoS best DoS
14:09:28 <gingeropolous> thanks endor00[m]
14:09:56 <anicow> buncha damn nerds in here
14:10:02 <anicow> i love it :D
14:10:10 * anicow wanders away to do top secret offline stuff
14:56:34 <hyc> gingeropolous: that's the point behind raw access to wifi cards, to just use them as standard radio transmitters
14:56:57 <hyc> but it only works for short range
14:57:21 <hyc> and you still need a packet-based protocol for sending/receiving
14:57:44 <hyc> just like wired ethernet CSMA/CD otherwise you get two stations transmitting at once, jamming each other
14:58:34 <hyc> https://github.com/svpcom/wifibroadcast
15:04:44 <d4ndo[m]> " radiowaes. yes, they in theory can be triangulated i guess" Doesn't 802.11ac has beamforming implemented!? So the router itself communicates its position to increase Range.
15:07:53 <Spaceguide> I believe 802.11ac does
15:29:53 <Zero-ghost[m]> triangulation is.... in the name
15:30:41 <Zero-ghost[m]> it assumes you are within 3 towers that make up a.... triangle.... and they use the ping time to your device from each tower to see where exactly you are within that triangle... of towers....
15:31:09 <Zero-ghost[m]> you dont "triangulate" any radiowaves magically by themselves
16:23:32 <gingeropolous> well right
16:24:08 <gingeropolous> my point was when a you broadcast radiowaves, they just propagate information through a medium, whereas a packet is on a mission from god
18:20:18 <anicow> streaming data is harder to filter, combine that through an ipsecvpn
18:21:33 <anicow> it becomes a simple way to obfuscate packet data
18:24:32 <anicow> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/714049032733065226/726140790908256346/unknown.png
18:24:36 <anicow> just an idea
18:31:45 <anicow> the idea would be you can see my data but it's all nonsense.
18:32:05 <anicow> this is right to privacy.