01:23:49 <hstl> monero is a shitcoin
02:11:14 <Bobtette> Any way to simulate a failed transaction?
02:32:10 <Copenhagen_Bram> Make a failed transaction on the testnet?
02:32:58 <Copenhagen_Bram> hstl: why do you say that?
02:34:25 <hstl> cuz it's true
02:36:26 <Copenhagen_Bram> hstl: may I PM you?
02:37:28 <hstl> nope
02:44:55 <Copenhagen_Bram> then I don't care if you think monero is a shitcoin.
02:47:50 <hstl> i don't care that you don't care
02:56:35 <Spaceguide>  hstl , explain yourself, your 'cuz it's true' is not a valid reasoning
02:57:19 <hstl> Spaceguide, you want a fight?
02:57:23 <hstl> where you at?
02:58:25 <Spaceguide> well... if you can't even explain your reasoning....you're not worth a fight
03:05:33 <hstl> Spaceguide, yeah, typical answah of a coward
07:02:39 <ErCiccione[m]> Ignore the trolls
07:05:33 <locustlord> so
07:05:38 <locustlord> do tail emissions last forever?
07:06:29 <ErCiccione[m]> yes
07:06:34 <locustlord> ok cool
07:06:36 <locustlord> and good
07:06:57 <locustlord> since because of the tail emissions it will be a functional currency
07:07:10 <locustlord> though maybe they should be increased so that it's inflationary
08:17:50 <KrishnAncap[m]> use case of monero is drugs and taxes racket evasion
08:17:51 <KrishnAncap[m]> and store of value
08:18:00 <KrishnAncap[m]> which are pretty good usecases
08:18:27 <KrishnAncap[m]> and evading fascist regulations
08:19:47 <KrishnAncap[m]> unlike those Tezos cuck who pay to get their permisioned network users stalked by coin analysis forms
08:20:25 <KrishnAncap[m]> and implement travel rule onchain
08:20:46 <KrishnAncap[m]> making their shit just as good as credit cards
08:41:05 <endor00[m]> <KrishnAncap[m] "use case of monero is drugs and "> That's a shitty marketing line for mainstream adoption
08:46:58 <Mochi101> Travel rule on chain?
08:57:09 <fluffypony> why would the travel rule need to be implemented on chain?
08:58:06 <fluffypony> the travel rule is about financial institutions passing information on to other financial institutions
08:58:09 <fluffypony> and they already have ways to do that
08:58:24 <fluffypony> otherwise we'd be required to write down all the owners of a banknote on said banknote
09:28:59 * simonfx[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/kTkoiMdDHJSZYfmiOyuJQaqR >
09:29:23 * simonfx[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/zFfNDsHZUhKWFrfetRKiTsrS >
09:37:15 <fluffypony> idiot
09:45:08 <Mochi101> I'm interested in earning $3000 weekly though.
09:51:44 <asymptotically> Mochi101: i have years of experience synergising with S.C.A.M technology. i will show you how to earn millions of pounds a week if you buy my e-book for £6.99
09:55:26 <fluffypony> LOL
09:56:23 <Mochi101> Sounds like a real steal!
10:32:58 <guernsey> hello
10:35:59 <Mochi101> hello guernsey
10:36:20 <guernsey> hello
11:14:00 <Mochi101> What's considered to be a "very old" output?
11:27:50 <sech1> Mochi101 do you mean "Transaction spends more than one very old output" warning?
11:27:51 <sech1> 30 days
11:38:50 <Mochi101> yes sech1
11:38:52 <Mochi101> thanks
11:39:07 <Mochi101> 30 days is "very old" though?
11:39:18 <sech1> I always get these warnings
11:39:24 <Mochi101> I pretty much get them for every tx
11:40:43 <sech1> Even when I have 1 output enough for tx, wallet selects 2 outputs somehow and then complains
11:40:47 <moneromooo> It's arbitrary really.
11:46:34 <Mochi101> yeah
11:46:47 <yanmaani> endor00[m]: 'sex, drugs, and tax evasion'
11:46:51 <yanmaani> it's all a matter of how you spin it
14:07:05 <vdo[m]> spain wants to ban cash
14:07:23 <vdo[m]> bullish?
14:08:03 <moneromooo> Evilish.
14:09:25 <vdo[m]> yep.
14:09:35 <rbrunner> The socialists there want many things, without being able to pull through. Count on the chaotic Spanish politics, plus the fact that Spaniards are a pretty conservative bunch, overall.
14:09:47 <rbrunner> Of course we still can introduce Monero there :)
14:11:10 <rbrunner> Hey, I know what: Monero as the currency of a future sovereign Cataluña. Is that an idea or not?
14:11:18 <moneromooo> Thinking about it, if we lived in a world where cash had been removed overnight, I would switch to liking remote nodes as a lesser evil to allow everyone to use monero as easily as possible...
14:11:52 <moneromooo> Remove-as-in-third-party
14:12:51 <moneromooo> Too much chance of it breaking. You dont' want to wreck a whole country if your coin gets broken.
14:13:28 <moneromooo> Possibly not enough control. Not sure.
14:13:30 <rbrunner> Well, Monero for Venezuela then, complete with remote nodes :) because their cash is pretty much worthless already. Not even a need to remove it.
14:13:43 <Bobtette> I don´t think Monero can scale to accommodate or any other crypto for that matter.
14:14:01 <moneromooo> Yeah, that's another big problem right there :)
14:15:26 <moneromooo> That's why I'd like all the coffee on the blockchain people to go use something else. That'll DoS us to death.
14:18:17 <rbrunner> Grin really may come handy there. Private enough for coffee on the blockchain for sure, and maybe even scales to such levels, who knows.
14:36:02 <mmxxx[m]> how usable is it?
14:38:36 <rbrunner> Not sure, did not follow it closely lately, but I think their "aggressive pruning" approach could work for really heavy use.
15:27:22 <vdo[m]> maybe monero + atomic swapping to something like that
15:37:46 <rbrunner> Yes, I feel the same, that would be a good use of atomic swaps for once, between a "big amounts" coin (Monero) and "small amounts" coin (Grin or whatever reasonable choice)
16:07:41 <yanmaani> Can Grin prune better than Monero?
16:10:46 <KrishnAncap[m]> LN on monero seems better than this two-currency swap
16:10:46 <KrishnAncap[m]> awkward af
16:11:19 <KrishnAncap[m]> imagine normies dealing with atomic swap and crypto exchange ratea
16:11:21 <KrishnAncap[m]> rates
16:11:31 <KrishnAncap[m]> BTW day to day currency is a pretty ugly use case for crypto
16:11:57 <KrishnAncap[m]> I doubt it will ever pierce
16:19:54 <yanmaani> can't see why you can't just buy coffee on the main blockchain
16:20:15 <fluffypony> because it's a massive privacy fail
16:20:30 <fluffypony> you want data like that to be as temporal as possible
16:22:54 <yanmaani> What do you mean?
16:22:58 <yanmaani> You get a better anonymity set
16:23:09 <fluffypony> you leak more metadata
16:23:25 <yanmaani> What metadata do I leak?
16:23:36 <fluffypony> in the general sense
16:23:54 <yanmaani> "??? sent XMR ??? to ???"
16:24:23 <fluffypony> timing analysis
16:24:26 <fluffypony> correlation attacks
16:24:39 <yanmaani> And using Grin for this is any better?
16:24:39 <fluffypony> it's not about what's on the blockchain, it's everything else
16:24:50 <fluffypony> I never mentioned grin
16:25:07 <fluffypony> I'd say that something like LN on top of Monero is better suited
16:25:31 <yanmaani> Won't that introduce all sorts of scaling problems?
16:25:45 <yanmaani> I don't see how you could make LN anonymous
16:27:19 <fluffypony> in what way would LN on top of Monero not be private?
16:28:06 <yanmaani> If I'm sending through a hub, which is incentivized, they would see how much and to whom I'm sending, correct?
16:29:13 <fluffypony> nope
16:29:21 <fluffypony> https://medium.com/suredbits/lightning-network-101-privacy-245d98210ab
16:29:36 <fluffypony> "One important aspect of routing, is that routers do not know the start or end points of a transaction it transmits. This is due to some cryptographic tricks used in routing, much like Tor."
16:35:07 <fluffypony> also that article points out that LN's privacy isn't as strong as Monero's
16:35:16 <fluffypony> but for coffee purchases it's plenty
16:40:55 <yanmaani> I just can't see how leaking more metadata improves privacy
18:33:34 <KrishnAncap[m]> I'm usually concerned by privacy
18:33:36 <KrishnAncap[m]> but not when it's about a coffe
18:37:01 <yanmaani> Haven't people done horrible opsec fails for less?
18:37:25 <hyc> your coffee habits reveal your deepest inner personality /s
18:38:22 <moneromooo> If they have CCTV, and they get your name just one, they know every time you've been around, timestamped.
18:39:25 <moneromooo> They then probably sell that to some creep company, who buys the same from lots of stores.
18:40:45 <moneromooo> I don't think they'd sell the footage, that seems too paranoid even for me. But in the future, it might start being done.
18:41:09 <moneromooo> Some stores do share stills of people suspected of theft.
18:41:21 <moneromooo> Easy enough to start sharing all of them.
18:42:26 <moneromooo> So pay by card once, and all the stores in creep data aggregators they deal with now have your name, address, and all your timestamped locations.
18:43:09 <moneromooo> I'm giving cash at the shop. I'd rather get coronavirus than fucked privacy. At least I have 99% chance to gget rid of the former.
18:44:05 <hyc> or you could, you know, make a cup of coffee at home for 25 cents, instead of buying $7 coffee in a pretentious cafe
18:44:40 <yanmaani> come on, the cup of coffee is just a hypothetical example
18:45:57 <hyc> talking about low value zeroconf txns
18:46:21 <hyc> how many of that class of txn do you actually conduct in a typical day?
18:46:29 <yanmaani> coffee isn't necessarily zeroconf, is it?
18:46:35 <yanmaani> in person or on the Internet?
18:47:02 <asymptotically> you need at least 5 confirmations if you want my pretentious gourmet coffee
18:47:59 <midipoet> confs could become a representation of length of customer retention, in store/cafe
19:04:21 <hyc> after 12 orders your next cup is 1 less confirmation!
19:35:30 <andioop[m]> <hyc "or you could, you know, make a c"> Excuse you coffee at MY pretentious coffee house is on 3 ish dollars and is soyvegan
19:36:46 <hyc> y'know, soymilk is part of my ethnic heritage, I grew up with it. but i'd never put it into coffee or tea
19:51:05 <Mochi101> Real men whiten their coffee with mayonnaise hyc
22:17:02 <midipoet> I will admit, I find both hazelnut milk and oat (unsweetened) milk quite tasty
22:20:55 <Calel> hey