00:28:20 Please see my question in #monero-otc 00:56:57 How do I access that 00:57:11 /join #monero-otc 00:57:13 itcomesfromchina: ^ 00:58:16 says not invited 00:58:44 works fine for me 00:59:22 I think i need an irc client 00:59:33 can that be joined from with riotweb? 00:59:36 within* 01:01:17 Yeah you can join IRC channels from riotweb 01:01:29 you go to join and you type in #monero-otc and you select freenode 01:01:36 iirc 03:16:14 Is the URL of the homepage meant to be web.getmonero.org, instead of ww.getmonero.org now? 03:33:10 anyone? 03:58:42 Steven_M: don't think it matters 03:59:39 niocbrrrrrr: okay, thanks. :) 08:59:04 Hi all. :-) 09:00:20 I'm trying to sync a node that's 8 months behind (long story). Do these errors matter, or should I ignore them and carry on syncing? https://dpaste.org/LhXP 09:54:53 I'm trying to sync a node that's 8 months behind (long story). Do these errors matter, or should I ignore them and carry on syncing? https://dpaste.org/LhXP 10:05:16 Not sure, never seen that particular message. Maybe try the `flush_cache` and `flush_txpool` interactive daemon commands, maybe the problems vanish then 10:18:19 xmrmatterbridge: okay, thanks :) 10:24:10 xmrmatterbridge: seems to be okay 10:28:40 xmrmatterbridge: also monerod is ignoring the --p2p-bind-port= switch 10:44:09 goodnight all :) 10:46:41 <3 11:37:14 xmr.to isnt available in england huh 11:58:34 when the subaddress is 8BmRape... :( 12:06:41 lulz 12:06:45 new seed! new seed! 12:07:13 i've totally abandoned addresses because the seed wasn't poetically appealing 12:09:51 i only use abbey abbey abbey abbey ... 12:18:51 best address 13:20:08 hi 13:21:54 is there any way tu buy monero whith only my visa infos? any site i find says something like "we may ask a selfie holding your id". Why the hell is that needed? i can buy anything on amazon, ebay, whatever with just my credit card, why would monero be different? 13:23:07 there's a high percentage of credit card fraud when buying crypto. they're jus ttrying to cover their asses 13:24:29 hyc: well, frommy point of view, that makes _me_ afraid of a fraud: "i gave you my credit card infos, and now you also want my id? hmmmm..." 13:25:23 hyc: on top of that, credit card fraud is a risk on any online payment, that's why there are systems like confirming the payment with a code sent on my mobile 13:26:54 security systems already exists, why not use them? really, that doesn't make me confident in buying crypto... 13:30:49 so, no service that would sell me monero using simply, and only, a secure credit card payment? 13:34:28 what country are you in domovoy? 13:37:13 asymptotically: france 13:38:29 domovoy: indeed, doing ID verification puts you at greater risk 13:38:39 you could use purse.io to get BTC and exchange it for XMR, but you'd get quite horrible rates. especially as a new account 13:39:21 but these aren't like normal purchases. if you buy regular merchandise, you could claim to never receive the product, but shipping verification will prove you did. 13:39:54 if you claim never to receive your XMR, you can demand a refund thru the credit card company, and seller must pay up. the coins will be gone, wherever they went. 13:40:08 sellers won't accept that risk. 13:40:20 hyc: well, there is the risk, but my main thing is i can't reconcile "private, untraceable" with "give me every bit of info you can about yourself" 13:40:32 that's a non-argument 13:41:01 once you have the monero in your wallet, there is no link to any of that info 13:42:07 hyc: well, the guy/service who sold me the monero have my monero address, my credit card infos, and my id, doesn't he? 13:42:34 he has an address, yes, but that doesn't have any link to your actual wallet 13:43:03 since Monero uses stealth addresses, the address that appears in the blockchain is completely different from the address he sent to 13:43:23 it *is* completely private and untraceable. 13:44:21 i see 13:44:21 if you use the same receive address with multiple sellers, they could all know you are the same customer, of course. 13:44:39 but there is no evidence of that fact in the blockchain itself. 13:46:10 so yes, giving out your ID puts you at risk of them using your identity for other fraud 13:46:31 or, having your ID stolen if their customer database is hacked/leaked 13:46:44 and those are pretty shitty outcomes 13:47:00 but it doesn't have any bearing on the privacy or anonymity of Monero that you bought 13:48:13 still it's a pity a secure credit card payment is not considered enough... any advice on a service? i found so many, how to know they are legit/won't keep my infos/won't give it away? 13:49:25 sorry, I have no advice on that, been out of the loop for a while now. 13:49:49 back when I was looking, you could expect to pay at least 10% over market rate for a credit card purchase 13:49:59 some as high as 40% premium 13:52:15 * I used to run monerodirect.com, our credit card processor charged us 10% to accept a payment 13:53:19 we added our own 1% markup. so we made 1% in profit on each sale. it was kind of pointless 13:56:32 ironic that they made more money per sale than we did, and then they got bought out by another company, who dropped us because they had a no-crypto policy 13:57:23 it is ridiculously hard to run a crypto/fiat business, make a reasonable profit, and not have to charge ridiculous prices 13:59:10 i was thinking about mailing cash, but the sites i found doesn't have user reviews from that long ago, hard to trust 13:59:29 tried localmonero.co? 13:59:48 if you find any sites that accept SEPA payments, I'd go with that 14:00:34 we were looking to get that set up but then gave up and closed the company 14:01:33 we never even earned enough to cover our website hosting costs... 14:01:34 hyc: sepa payments asks the same as credit card: id proof. I actually don't know the difference, appart from the numbers you input 14:04:12 SEPA payments are bank to bank, with no fees. so they're usually faster and cheaper for the merchant than credit cards 14:05:39 I would think they're harder to forge too, since you usually need the user's PIN and online banking password to send one 14:05:57 but I guess fraud still happens with them 14:09:51 Kraken has sepa fwiw 14:10:10 You will have to go through a verification process first, but thereafter you can simply wire funds to Kraken (via SEPA) and buy Monero directly on the XMR/EUR pair 14:15:53 The sender can prove a payment to address A was made. If the recipient still claims not to have received, that's their problem. 15:21:04 Something stupid for a slow Saturday afternoon: https://0xmonero.com/ 15:24:40 as I recall, of the few banks we contacted who would allow crypto business, none of them had a convenient API for receiving SEPA payments 15:25:10 i.e., we wouldn't get instant notification of an incoming payment, so couldn't fully automate the purchase of coins 15:25:34 can't you parse a web interface of the account with a bot? 15:25:57 maybe. sounds gross. didn't tryu. 15:26:18 gross but faster than manual review of sepa transfers 15:26:20 you have to keep poking the page to prevent it from timing out 15:46:06 He just kept pushing it hey. 15:46:24 And pulling ... 15:48:45 kek 16:00:37 Jackman2: no spam please, thank you 16:03:28 don't threaten me 16:03:46 I put you on my ignore lisy 16:03:48 list 16:04:39 ^ ignoring a warning from a channel op really isn't very smart 21:06:22 does the ring singature scheme make it progressively hard to track transactions as time goes by and things get more 'mixed'? (sorry about the sloppy language) 21:19:31 it's not time dependent AFAIK as2333 21:21:27 Jackman1, so every transaction has the same 'plausible deniability' shared (only) by the members of the ring signature? 21:21:55 eh monero is better than bitcoin coinjoin 21:22:39 I guess, because you're taking public keys from the whole chain to create the ring signature. 21:22:49 I think you are thinking about monero as simply being bitcoin with built-in coinjoin? 21:23:07 ok 21:23:28 dude I'm not good enough to explain how it works but there was thi kraken pdf 21:23:47 I'm not, that's why I was wondering how far the 'mixing' goes. 21:23:56 https://blog.kraken.com/post/5080/meet-monero-a-privacy-cryptocurrency-offering-real-anonymity-advances/ 21:24:04 it's more than simply mixing 21:24:10 again I know =) 21:24:14 lol 21:24:28 well I remember I don't have to worry about traceability 21:24:50 the kraken report have some nice simple straightforward explanations of how it works 21:27:30 as2333: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLV_giHgwBqwzo3UXbDbOdByt4k4GjcbnX 21:30:17 as2333: monero privacy is multi-faceted. Your address is nowhere on the blockchain. The amounts are hidden. And when you spend, it is not possible on-chain to determine which of 11 outputs where the one that was spent (and even *with* that information, the amount and the origination and destination addresses are not there) 21:31:15 Inge-, I know about the amounts being hidden as well as destination addresses. 21:31:54 Inge-, I also know about the ring signature...I was wondering about a detail of its working. I guess my original question isn't correctly framed 21:40:58 as2333: The number of rings that will include your output will grow over time. As time goes by, people keep including your output in their transactions' rings. If that's what you meant 21:45:22 binaryFate, so there's a chance that a randomly picked output is used in more than one signature. Does that enhance privacy? 21:47:59 Yes, everytime someone uses your output in their ring, this looks like a potential spend of your output. 21:48:05 stupid questions time 21:48:27 And "there's a chance that a randomly picked output is used in more than one signature" yes it's at least used when actually spend, but typically appear many more times 21:48:35 in many different rings in many different transactions 21:48:56 can you call RPC method `make_integrated_address` on a RPC instance that's using a view-only wallet? (I would assume so, just double checking) 21:50:10 dsc_ not sure, best to try :) or maybe someone in monero-dev knows for sure 21:50:31 ill try as to not disturb the gods :) 21:51:37 binaryFate, I see. Thanks!