07:36:56 <flux77> Hi, is there a book I can read about the details of Monero. I already understand some details of Bitcoin. Where should I go to learn more about Monero?
07:37:13 <selsta> https://masteringmonero.com
07:43:22 <flux77> selsta Thank you for the suggestion.
07:45:38 <flux77> I noticed that Monero is actively traded on the Bisq decentralized exchange. More so than Ethereum or even Bitcoin. Why is that? Is it because Monero users like decentralization?
07:47:25 <selsta> Maybe, I don’t think anyone knows why exactly.
07:58:20 <Inge-> didn't someone see that about 75% of the BTC traded on bisq would be considered "tainted" and risk being locked if sent to a regulated exchange?
08:02:33 <rbrunner> Test
08:02:47 <selsta> rbrunner: mooo pinged you in #monero-dev
08:02:52 <rbrunner> Looks to me as if the Mattermost-to-IRC bridge went titsup again. Can somebody please restart? Thanks.
08:03:20 <rbrunner> Hah, thanks, did not see that, because of that bridge problem. Did you see what it was about?
08:03:30 <selsta> nope, just asked if you are online
08:03:48 <rbrunner> Was that recently?
08:04:12 <selsta> yesterday
08:04:22 <rbrunner> Alright
08:06:52 <locustlord> hey guys
08:07:01 <locustlord> where would I find a list of trusted remote nodes?
08:07:58 <selsta> locustlord: node.xmr.to:18081, node.supportxmr.com:18081, monerworld.com, simple mode in gui
08:08:05 <selsta> moneroworld.com*
08:08:14 <locustlord> ok thank you
08:08:21 <locustlord> but why should I trust you?
08:08:45 <selsta> don’t trust me and use your own node
08:09:04 <locustlord> heh true
08:09:09 <locustlord> well I know xmr.to anyway
08:09:17 <locustlord> so I'll use that
08:09:29 <locustlord> since I don't have a spare computer lying around for me to make a remote node out of
08:10:59 <rbrunner> Yeah, a snippish answer of "There is no such thing as a trusted remote node" would be possible as well :)
08:34:22 <locustlord> anyone here have experience with globee?
10:49:01 <newyearday> hello
11:48:58 <Inge-> hm. Anyone have the correct version numbers for Ledger and Monero again? Error: unexpected error: Wrong Device Status : SW=6985 (EXPECT=9000, MASK=ffff)
12:10:53 <selsta> Inge-: 1.51
12:11:45 <Inge-> ach so
12:11:59 <Inge-> Do you also know what the major change was?
12:14:23 <selsta> they fixed a security issue
12:15:07 <selsta> https://deadcode.me/blog/2020/04/25/Ledger-Monero-app-spend-key-extraction.html
12:16:28 <Inge-> that is a pretty bad bug
12:17:01 <selsta> yep
12:22:54 <newyearday> on basic.h is unlock_time that is same as height
12:22:57 <newyearday> number of block (or time), used as a limitation like: spend this tx not early then block/time
12:23:17 <newyearday> so on new chain unlock time is allways block number
12:24:07 <newyearday> what is the meaning of this code when there is unlock_window and other spend code controls
12:24:19 <Inge-> I'm kind of surprised I had not heard of this before.
12:25:01 <newyearday> i cant understand why
12:25:29 <newyearday> so if block is 999 unlock_time is 999!!!
12:26:16 <selsta> Inge-: it was published yesterday or so
12:26:28 <selsta> I shared it on #monero-research-lab
12:28:12 <Inge-> I'd have expected it to flash up in my face in multiple places. Bottom line is "your monero private spend key could (theoretically) have been compromised".
12:29:05 <selsta> IMO that is up to Ledger
12:29:25 <Inge-> CLI 15.0.1 still usable?
12:29:25 <selsta> I assume they would share this or force a version update?
12:29:33 <selsta> yes
12:29:33 <Inge-> They can't force a version update
12:30:49 <selsta> yes, we can force it with v0.15.1.0
12:31:02 <selsta> and Ledger can notify everyone who has it installed and opens Ledger Live
12:32:04 <Inge-> I never open Ledger Live unless I know I need to update
12:32:17 <Inge-> but yeah, the Monero client warning/forcing would be helpful
12:34:14 <Inge-> hm. it still fails now with different error. Nice touch that the display says "preparing tx" tho
12:34:40 <selsta> which error?
12:35:10 <Inge-> Error: unexpected error: Wrong Device Status : SW=1 (EXPECT=9000, MASK=ffff)
12:35:34 <selsta> can you try to send a lower amount?
12:35:42 <selsta> not really familiar with that one
12:36:03 <Inge-> It might have gone down a rabbit hole using lots of UTXO's
12:36:16 <Inge-> I'll try a sweep single instead
12:39:15 <Inge-> sweep_single worked fine
12:39:38 <Inge-> so I'm guessing maybe it can have some issues when left to its own ... devices. Have lots of tiny amounts there.
12:44:30 <lesless> is it right that current blockchain size is around 64 gigs?
12:45:33 <selsta> Depends, the raw blockchain file or blockchain in use?
12:46:27 <Inge-> tried a sweep_below to consolidate a bunch of outputs, but that yielded a new error: Error: failed to get random outputs to mix: failed to get random outs
12:47:57 <selsta> which CLI version are you using?
12:48:34 <Inge-> 15.0.1
12:48:43 <Inge-> but maybe 100+ inputs is a bit much
12:48:52 <Inge-> trying something saner
12:48:58 <selsta> also try v0.15.0.5
12:49:02 <Inge-> oh ok
12:49:16 <selsta> not sure if that will improve things but worth a try
12:49:17 <Inge-> possibly need to update monerod as well
12:49:22 <selsta> also which daemon are you using?
12:49:27 <Inge-> ^
12:49:30 <selsta> remote node or local node?
12:49:40 <Inge-> one I control.
12:49:49 <Inge-> but on a different machine
12:49:51 <selsta> ok
12:49:58 <selsta> yea try updating both, might help
12:53:39 <Inge-> so a more sane number of inputs was successfully processed. I guess there is a limit somewhere in the number of inputs possible to process in one tx. guessing the Ledger is the bottleneck, but not sure.
12:54:15 <lesless> selsta are those two different kinds of blockchain? :D
12:58:34 <Inge-> that's odd. the many-input tx isn't showing up on xmrchain
13:00:07 <selsta> lesless: yep, the .raw data contains only the blockchain data, the .mdb which is used by the daemon contains also some extra data to speed things up
13:00:23 <selsta> you can use monero-blockchain-import and monero-blockchain-export to convert between them
13:02:15 <Inge-> never mind, it went through.
13:51:11 <Mochi101> your-server.de
13:51:13 <Mochi101> nice
13:51:25 <Mochi101> .pap xtz
13:51:44 <Mochi101> oops... sorry
13:52:01 <Mochi101> Please don't ban me. :D
14:00:49 <Infinity8> .network
14:01:29 <Infinity8> oops.this isn't #monero-pools
14:29:43 <TrasherDK> What is the next release? 0.15.1 or 0.15.0.6 ?
14:30:24 <dEBRUYNE> .1
14:30:41 <TrasherDK> Cool. Thanks.
14:38:37 <dEBRUYNE> You're welcome
14:39:42 <Inge-> Heh. The Ledger definitely seems to have some limitations when the number of inputs increases
14:49:50 <Inge-> I wonder what happened here: [on_send_raw_tx]: tx verification failed: invalid input
14:55:40 <selsta> Inge-: again ledger?
14:56:04 <Inge-> yes
14:56:35 <Inge-> I retried that one and it went through
14:56:47 <Inge-> maybe took too long for me to notice the ledger had completed its processing?
14:57:03 <selsta> maybe
14:57:16 <selsta> I find Trezor has better integration
14:57:18 <Inge-> so <20 outputs did work. trying some more
14:57:47 <selsta> Ledger always had problems with lots of outputs
14:58:07 <Inge-> hw limits?
14:58:27 <Inge-> It's not like it is good practice to use lots and lots of outputs in a tx anyway ...
14:58:46 <selsta> I don’t know if it’s a hw limit
14:59:13 <Inge-> maybe I should ping cslashm
15:00:13 <selsta> I would test master + his latest PR first
15:00:23 <selsta> maybe it is something that is already fixed in cose
15:00:26 <selsta> code
20:11:07 <nonie> Just found a nice book. »Core Techniques for Memory Management« Understanding and Using C Pointers from Richard
20:11:13 <nonie> Reese
20:11:58 <asymptotically> i hope it's as good as "Mastering C Pointers: Tools For Programming Power"! https://wozniak.ca/blog/2018/06/25/Massacring-C-Pointers/index.html
20:12:20 <nonie> I'm not quite through yet, but not bad.
20:12:50 <nonie> I don't know that one.
20:13:37 <asymptotically> it was written by a man that seemingly did not know C, and you might need a tetanus shot after reading
20:13:54 <nonie> XD
20:14:44 <SerHack> aaahhh asymptotically what my eyes are seeing .-.
20:22:14 <nonie> I can recommend "CC Programming Language from Kerninghan and Ritchie". A bit old using C89 but still a good book.
20:23:25 <nonie> And "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment" from Stevens
20:24:15 <nonie> And maybe "C in the 21. Century" from Ben Klemens.
20:26:11 <nonie> But I still suck at programming. XD
20:26:19 <yanmaani> there's only one good C book and you know it
20:29:03 <hyc> I had K&R 1st and 2nd editions
20:29:22 <nonie> Kernighan and Ritchie’s 1988 classic.
20:29:45 <hyc> I seem to recall reading one of Stevens' books
20:29:59 <hyc> wasn't atrocious, but I wasn't fond of it either
20:32:02 <nonie> I still have it here somewhere. I can't find it. (K&R)
20:33:19 <nonie> 2nd edition
20:49:09 <nonie> So - in the Security Chapter this book recommends to always check the return value when using a malloc type function. Do you guys do that?
20:49:12 <hyc> oh, yeah, I didn't own 1st edition, had to borrow it from library
20:49:28 <hyc> yes, that's a requirement
20:49:39 <hyc> malloc can always fail and return NULL
20:49:45 <nonie> But if malloc fails, then you have completely different and more serious problems.
20:49:56 <hyc> yes, usually your whole system is hosed
20:50:19 <nonie> true.
20:50:21 <hyc> in OpenLDAP we use our own malloc wrapper. it does the NULL check and just abort()s immediately
20:51:16 <hyc> on a modern system, huge virtual address space, gobs of virtual memory, malloc should never fail in ordinary operation
20:51:24 <hyc> so if it does fail, yeah, something's really wrong
20:51:41 <nonie> That makes sense.
20:58:00 <nonie> I like this recommendation: void function saferFree(void **pp) that does free(*pp); and *pp = NULL;
20:59:02 <nonie> i first tests if (pp != NULL && * pp != NULL)
20:59:25 <hyc> yeah, that definitely seems to be a safer model
20:59:57 <hyc> we don't use it in OpenLDAP but it makes sense, I've seen a few other projects that do it
21:08:20 <nonie> If you wrote ldap, then you've been in this business a long time. Only "sendmail" can top that.
21:08:30 <nonie> XD
21:11:31 <hyc> quite a long time. I used to write sendmail.cf files by hand
21:13:17 <hyc> I think I wrote my first C program around 1986 or '87. before that I used Turbo Pascal pretty heavily
21:14:21 <nonie> Not bad.
21:14:22 <hyc> did Fortran in college in 1984-85.
21:16:27 <hyc> various flavors of BASIC starting around 1977. 6502, Z80, 6809 asm
21:16:36 <hyc> fun times
21:17:38 <nonie> I do know a little basic and pascal.
21:19:33 <nonie> Waht do you think about Rust?
21:19:53 <hyc> very little
21:20:04 <hyc> the syntax looks odd to me
21:20:25 <hyc> the language itself went thru multiple revisions of incompatible changes so I stopped paying attention to it
21:20:29 <nonie> It is C style though
21:20:40 <hyc> doesn't look it to me ;)
21:21:13 <hyc> maybe it's C as written by C++ programmers, but that's dreck
21:22:45 <nonie> I haven't really gotten into it that much.
21:23:43 <nonie> But i have the desire to learn a new language. Is fun.
21:24:17 <hyc> what prompts that desire?
21:24:24 <nonie> Maybe Haskell a functional language.
21:24:43 <hyc> I had a desire to learn a better language, moving from BASIC to Fortran to Pascal to C
21:24:56 <nonie> legit.
21:24:59 <hyc> but after that I've only needed to learn better how to use it
21:25:21 <nonie> C is still the King.
21:25:28 <hyc> C++ had some cute ideas in the beginning, but has grown into a monstrosity
21:26:06 <hyc> most times the only things I need to do that aren't convenient in C are things that require hand-written asm
21:26:27 <hyc> I haven't found anything in C++ that I can't live without
21:28:20 <nonie> asm - but not on modern CPU's ?
21:30:36 <nonie> I guess on some embedded microcontroller it is still possible to do some cool stuff with asm.
21:31:46 <hyc> well, I've still written some x86 and ARM asm recently
21:32:06 <hyc> before that, the last was probably sparc
21:32:08 <nonie> respect.
21:32:28 <nonie> push and pop stacks.
21:33:03 <hyc> register stacks? register windows
21:33:12 <hyc> yeah, interesting stuff
21:33:18 <nonie> i have learned assambler in school but never used it since then.
21:33:39 <hyc> this is also why I hate modern ANSI C. they've tried to turn it into an object oriented high level language
21:34:04 <hyc> instead of leaving it a human-friendly language for low level programming,
21:35:26 <nonie> dito - I also don't like object oriented programming to much.
21:35:50 <nonie> bloats the source code to much.
21:35:58 <hyc> absolutely
21:39:41 <nonie> I guess functional languages could get their renaissance again with AI. very well suited for this kind of prallel computing.
22:01:23 <hyc> interesting. most of these AI systems are using very low precision math. 8 bit ints
22:03:23 <Inge-> yeah you can do a lot with 8 bit
22:04:09 <hyc> time to break out the 6502 again. on a modern 7nm chip process
22:04:23 <hyc> would be insanely fast...
23:41:46 <newyearday> hello