03:41:19 <TrasherDK1> I'm looking forward to that Ultranet thing to hit r/Monero
03:46:23 <thespiritmolekul> whats that
04:56:11 <hyc> "Look, our technology is beautiful and sound. You'd truly appreciate it if you woudln't get hung up on our misuse of a fundamental term of art"
06:13:53 <TrasherDK1> So, finally there's a use for all those al qaeda bitcoin's out there.
07:31:24 <Infinity8> Some fuckers keep mining on my node. I must be doing something wrong
07:34:26 <Infinity8> In my monerod.conf I have: rpc-bind-ip=192.168.1.5 and confirm-external-bind=1 and somehow that's allowing people to access my node VIA RPC
07:36:08 <Infinity8> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7sc8jz/are_there_risk_running_a_remote_node_without/
07:36:23 <Infinity8> Shouldn't RPC access only be permitted on my LAN with my settings?
07:38:04 <epic> is there a list of public tor p2p nodes somewhere?
07:45:58 <selsta> Infinity8: I think depends on your firewall
07:46:24 <d4ndo[m]> epic: https://moneroworld.com/
07:46:24 <selsta> or port forwarding, not sure
07:46:42 <selsta> I would run in restricted mode.
07:48:07 <Infinity8> selsta: My port 18080-18081 is open
07:48:10 <Infinity8> Would that be why?
07:48:39 <selsta> restrict 18081
07:48:48 <d4ndo[m]> 18081 is the rpc port
07:49:06 <d4ndo[m]> but then he can't use rpc himself.
07:49:17 <Infinity8> I'm only accessing it through LAN
07:49:36 <d4ndo[m]> Is monerod running on a linux machine?
07:50:25 <Infinity8> yes
07:50:43 <Infinity8> Okay. I have this option in my router. Internal and external starting port
07:50:46 <d4ndo[m]> So you can access it via ssh
07:51:08 <selsta> d4ndo[m]: why? not port forwarding 18081 shouldn’t matter for LAN
07:51:32 <Infinity8> Either way. My node is mining for some reason and doesn't stop mining when I move my mouse
07:51:33 <Infinity8> It's so laggy
07:51:42 <Infinity8> so it doesn't seem like smart mining
07:52:00 <Infinity8> Even my sync time from monero-wallet-cli seems to slow down in my experience
07:52:32 <Infinity8> selsta: 18080-18081 is open on my router not my firewall
07:53:30 <Infinity8> Yeah so when I leave out the RPC bind I can't set the node as my daemon in monero-wallet-cli
07:55:05 <d4ndo[m]> selsta: ok - So block 18081 on FORWARD chain? Couldn't tell you.
07:56:25 <Infinity8> Okay well 18081 is closed now
07:57:25 <d4ndo[m]> Why not run monerod on default settings and just run "ssh -nNT -L 18081:localhost:18081 user⊙111" on the client side.
07:58:16 <d4ndo[m]> this creates an ssh tunnel of 18081.
07:58:37 <d4ndo[m]> so you can run monero-wallet-cli with default settings.
07:59:21 <Infinity8> Does it speed up syncing
07:59:27 <Infinity8> Seems like the same speed as using set_daemon
07:59:31 <Infinity8> typing*
08:00:04 <Infinity8> I guess it saves me the time of figuring out a config file for monero-wallet-cli
08:00:49 <Infinity8> Is mining disabled by default in monerod?
08:01:02 <d4ndo[m]> no
08:02:11 <Infinity8> What do I enter in my config file? bg-mining-enable=0?
08:05:38 <d4ndo[m]> I couldn't tell you. My guess it runs the mining on a different process id. So it makes no difference 0 or 1
08:08:18 <d4ndo[m]> Anyone?
08:16:04 <Infinity8> d4ndo[m]: I'm just getting ssh: connect to host 192.168.1.5 port 22: Connection refused
08:16:26 <Infinity8> The firewall is definitely open on the machine. Should I open it on the router as well?
08:17:58 <Infinity8> I'm probably not running an ssh server on my machine?
08:18:20 <d4ndo[m]> Does this work ? --> "ssh user⊙111"
08:18:37 <d4ndo[m]> probably
08:19:20 <d4ndo[m]> On debian/ubuntu apt-get install openssh-server
08:22:14 <Infinity8> Okay, it works now
08:22:18 <Infinity8> SSH server wasn't even installed
08:22:30 <Infinity8> which is pretty normal for a desktop version i guess
08:22:33 <d4ndo[m]> On the client call "ssh-keygen" and "ssh-copy-id user⊙111" So you don't need to enter the password everytime.
08:23:37 <d4ndo[m]> Then create a system/init script to start sshtunnel on boot
08:24:45 <Infinity8> What password am I supposed to enter? The password for the user on server side?
08:25:01 <d4ndo[m]> none
08:25:15 <Infinity8> Permission denied
08:25:34 <d4ndo[m]> Oh when starting the tunnel.
08:25:41 <d4ndo[m]> user on the server side
08:26:33 <d4ndo[m]> Then start a new terminal and try ./monero-wallet-cli
08:26:53 <Infinity8> okay, i'm screwing something up
08:27:07 <Infinity8> do I replace user⊙111 with the user account or do i literally write USER
08:27:29 <d4ndo[m]> you replace it
08:28:44 <Infinity8> Okay, I did that right. It still says permission denied
08:28:51 <Infinity8> Clearly it doesn't want the root password when I'm SSHing
08:30:18 <d4ndo[m]> are you running monerod as root?
08:33:14 <Infinity8> No. I'm running it as a user
08:33:37 <Infinity8> I just reset my password with "sudo passwd user" and I'm trying to SSH again with the new password
08:34:08 <d4ndo[m]> ok
08:34:19 <Infinity8> client side seems to be hanging now with the new password when trying to access SSH
08:34:56 <d4ndo[m]> It is not hanging.
08:35:16 <Infinity8> here's what I got x6: channel 2: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused
08:35:29 <Infinity8> So clearly my password is correct now I guess
08:36:09 <d4ndo[m]> so this should work "ssh user⊙111" enter password and have access to bash
08:36:11 <Infinity8> Maybe I should open my port 22 on client side firewall as well?
08:36:21 <d4ndo[m]> no
08:36:34 <Infinity8> Yup it works
08:36:45 <d4ndo[m]> depends if you have closed OUTPUT chain then yes.
08:36:59 <Infinity8> now i'm in
08:37:06 <d4ndo[m]> ok
08:37:10 <d4ndo[m]> perfect
08:37:12 <Infinity8> but i'm guessing this isn't a tunnel
08:37:20 <d4ndo[m]> no.
08:37:21 <Infinity8> so i did need to enter the user's password
08:37:32 <Infinity8> which i forgot because I never need it
08:38:00 <d4ndo[m]> now start the tunnel from you client
08:38:03 <d4ndo[m]> XD
08:38:44 <d4ndo[m]> ssh is default on my system
08:38:58 <Infinity8> ok what's the command for that
08:39:33 <d4ndo[m]> ssh -nNT -L 18081:localhost:18081 user⊙111
08:40:40 <d4ndo[m]> You need to start this on your PC where you run monero-wallet--cli
08:40:50 <d4ndo[m]> on the client side not server side.
08:41:03 <Infinity8> Yeah, that's what I was doing
08:41:20 <Infinity8> I just literally opened an ssh through ssh
08:41:31 <Infinity8> Was wondering why it was asking me about fingerprint again
08:41:45 <d4ndo[m]> ^^
08:41:53 <Infinity8> channel 2: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused
08:42:06 <Infinity8> Client side of course...
08:42:09 <d4ndo[m]> strange
08:42:20 <Infinity8> Are openssh-server's default settings allowing SSH tunneling?
08:42:30 <Infinity8> Because I didn't do any configuration what so ever
08:42:37 <d4ndo[m]> Any other monerd running ?
08:42:57 <d4ndo[m]> on client
08:44:00 <Infinity8> No just monero-wallet-cli
08:44:32 <d4ndo[m]> netstat -tulpn | grep 18081
08:45:04 <Infinity8> tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:18081         0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN      23526/ssh
08:45:04 <Infinity8> tcp6       0      0 ::1:18081               :::*                    LISTEN      23526/ssh
08:45:14 <Infinity8> 18081 is red
08:46:18 <d4ndo[m]> tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:18081         0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN      23526/ssh
08:46:31 <d4ndo[m]> So ssh tunnel is running already
08:46:52 <d4ndo[m]> now try to start monero-wallet-cli
08:49:05 <Infinity8> Error: wallet failed to connect to daemon: http://localhost:18081.
08:51:12 <d4ndo[m]> maybe kill the ssh process and restart it without going to background
08:51:21 <Infinity8> client side?
08:51:30 <d4ndo[m]> yes
08:51:52 <d4ndo[m]> And then just ssh -N -L 18081:localhost:18081 user⊙111
08:52:27 <d4ndo[m]> -N without -Tn command line options. So it does stick to the the terminals stdout.
08:53:07 <Infinity8> channel 2: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused
08:53:23 <d4ndo[m]> netstat -tulpn | grep 18081
08:53:28 <Infinity8> same output as before
08:53:49 <Infinity8> well a little different: tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:18081         0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN      23633/ss
08:53:56 <Infinity8> 23633/ssh instead
08:55:27 <d4ndo[m]> Are you familiar with htop?
08:56:12 <Infinity8> no
08:57:20 <d4ndo[m]> ps -A | grep ssh
08:59:05 <Infinity8> 2 processes of ssh and ssh-agent running
08:59:43 <d4ndo[m]> then kill the ssh
08:59:50 <d4ndo[m]> kill -9 pid
09:00:28 <d4ndo[m]> netstat -tulpn | grep 18081 shouldnt show any process then
09:01:03 <d4ndo[m]> pid is the number infornt of ssh shown by ps -A
09:02:23 <Infinity8> including ssh-agent
09:02:24 <Infinity8> or just ssh?
09:02:34 <d4ndo[m]> just ssh
09:03:14 <Infinity8> yup they're dead
09:03:36 <Infinity8> sudo service ssh restart?
09:04:31 <d4ndo[m]> can't hurt
09:05:01 <d4ndo[m]> What about netstat -tulpn | grep 18081?
09:05:33 <Infinity8> Nothing
09:05:43 <d4ndo[m]> good.
09:05:54 <Infinity8> So clearly nothing is using that port
09:05:56 <d4ndo[m]> ssh -N -L 18081:localhost:18081 user⊙111
09:06:13 <d4ndo[m]> so it wont run in background now
09:06:52 <Infinity8> channel 2: open failed: connect failed: Connection refused
09:07:03 <Infinity8> I think it might be an issue with server maybe?
09:07:10 <Infinity8> if the connection is refused?
09:07:10 <d4ndo[m]> try 127.0.01
09:07:18 <Infinity8> ssh -N -L 18081:127.0.0.1:18081 nodlr⊙111
09:07:20 <Infinity8> that's what i did
09:07:21 <d4ndo[m]> ssh -N -L 18081:127.0.0.1:18081 user⊙111
09:07:56 <Infinity8> well my user is there but whatever
09:08:25 <d4ndo[m]> sorry. i couldn't help
09:09:00 <Infinity8> Okay, so once I get passed this connection refused shit I should be able to just launch monero-wallet-cli and sync up
09:09:33 <d4ndo[m]> Yes.
09:12:26 <Infinity8> ok well onto ssh-keygen
09:13:16 <Infinity8> ssh-rsa KEY clientuser@clientmachinename
09:13:19 <Infinity8> I'm guessing KEY is my key?
09:14:45 <d4ndo[m]> Yes. It creates a public and private key in .ssh
09:15:27 <d4ndo[m]> ssh-copy-id user⊙111
09:15:39 <d4ndo[m]> copies public key to the romte host.
09:18:03 <d4ndo[m]> ssh user⊙111 should not require a password anymore.
09:20:52 <Infinity8> Okay I think I might know my
09:20:53 <Infinity8> why*
09:21:01 <Infinity8> rpc-bind-ip is set to 192.168.1.5 not 127.0.0.1
09:22:10 <d4ndo[m]> yes - needs to be 127.0.0.1.
09:23:50 <Infinity8> Okay, I'm getting something
09:24:13 <Infinity8> curl http://localhost:18081 doesn't spit out connection refused anymore
09:24:58 <Infinity8> Okay it works :D
09:25:07 <Infinity8> but I still need to enter a password for some reason
09:25:20 <d4ndo[m]> ah. nice
09:25:36 <Infinity8> So it was a problem with the server
09:25:44 <Infinity8> my guess was correct
09:26:00 <d4ndo[m]> great.
09:26:03 <Infinity8> so that means I can't use set_daemon anymore?
09:26:18 <Infinity8> what if I'm on the road and want to use my specific node?
09:26:32 <Infinity8> with a web wallet for example
09:26:58 <Infinity8> I followed this guide btw: https://github.com/jonathancross/jc-docs/blob/master/ssh_tunnel_to_full_node.md
09:27:05 <Infinity8> when diagnosing the problem
09:29:42 <d4ndo[m]> legit. good guide
09:30:01 <Infinity8> It's still asking for my password and won't let me proceed without one
09:30:06 <Infinity8> Despite adding my public key
09:31:02 <d4ndo[m]> https://www.ssh.com/ssh/copy-id
09:31:24 <d4ndo[m]> It is common stuff.
09:31:50 <d4ndo[m]> ssh is pretty cool.
09:33:25 <Infinity8> Okay, figured it out.
09:33:35 <Infinity8> The entire file was the key
09:33:39 <Infinity8> not just the center key looking part
09:33:50 <Infinity8> Okay so now I'm in without a password...
09:34:55 <d4ndo[m]> Thumbs up.
09:36:57 <Infinity8> Yeah so back to the question
09:37:22 <Infinity8> Let's say I'm out and about and don't have SSH access because it's only permitted on LAN
09:37:50 <Infinity8> How would I use my node to sync when I'm using a mobile wallet/laptop on an external network
09:39:01 <d4ndo[m]> It's quite unusual for port 22 to be closed.
09:39:32 <d4ndo[m]> You could use a public node to sync
09:41:37 <d4ndo[m]> there are tools to create an ssh tunnel on android phones.
09:41:53 <asymptotically> wireguard works well too
09:42:01 <d4ndo[m]> in combination with Monerujo
09:43:09 <d4ndo[m]> A vpn
09:44:02 <Infinity8> d4ndo[m]: I've got a super simple password right now and I just exposed my user so I'm keeping it closed at the moment
09:48:37 <d4ndo[m]> You could aslo harden ssh see your link above. remove the shell etc. way more secure than an open rpc port.
10:07:08 <Infinity8> d4ndo[m]: cool beans. thanks a lot for the help. makes it worth while running a node after constantly being attacked
11:32:08 <azy> https://community.xmr.to/faucet/stagenet/ is down :(
11:33:08 <SmokeyTeh> Hi, Trying to copy any of the files in the Window CLI v0.15.0.5 wallet, I'm getting some Windows "Unexpected Error 0x800700E1: Operation did not complete successfully because the file contains a virus or potentially unwanted software."
11:33:09 <Quotes> fuck windows, use linux!
11:33:35 <azy> sounds like an antivirus error
11:34:44 <SmokeyTeh> yeah i'm assuming false positive...it's just not removing the files automatically i guess i need to exempt them
11:34:59 <SmokeyTeh> err, it is* removing the files
11:35:35 <SmokeyTeh> also the first time i've seen it (after upgrading from 0.15.0.1) so i just wondering why now
11:56:10 <azy> did you verify the signatures
11:56:31 <azy> You are strongly advised to verify the hashes of the archive you downloaded. This will confirm that the files you downloaded perfectly match the files uploaded by the Monero development workgroup. Please don't underestimate this step, a corrupted archive could result in lost funds. Always verify your downloads!
12:22:53 <SmokeyTeh> i did verify the sha256..didn't go through the trouble of installing pgp...so it's as secure as it could be
12:23:05 <SmokeyTeh> ty
12:43:16 <d4ndo[m]> Is there any checksum software for windows that supports gpg keys?
12:55:37 <Luuubb> gpgwin?
12:56:36 <Luuubb> *gpg4win
12:56:46 <Luuubb> or even gnupg itself
12:57:42 <d4ndo[m]> But gpgwin does not check your files for sha256, does it?
12:58:31 <TrasherDK> I thing Git for Windows got all you need. That's what I'm using..
12:59:10 <TrasherDK> s/ting/tink
12:59:21 <TrasherDK> I give up..
12:59:26 <d4ndo[m]> XD
13:00:30 <d4ndo[m]> Git works pretty good for source code i guess. What about the binaries downloaded from getmonero.org?
13:00:38 <selsta> on Linux / macOS you can verify everything in 1 command
13:00:41 <selsta> `curl https://web.getmonero.org/downloads/hashes.txt -s | gpg --verify | shasum -c --ignore-missing`
13:00:52 <selsta> not sure if that also works with git for windows
13:01:14 <selsta> d4ndo[m]: git ships with a with a few tools
13:01:42 <d4ndo[m]> ok
13:02:38 <TrasherDK> gpg and sha* is in there too.
13:03:36 <d4ndo[m]> The unix philosophy is the reason why windows will always lose out.
13:03:57 <TrasherDK> sha1sum.exe, sha256sum.exe, sha512sum.exe, sha224sum.exe, sha384sum.exe
13:04:33 <Luuubb> if you have a recent windows you can use Get-FileHash for sha256
13:04:36 <d4ndo[m]> bloatware slows down windows development to a point they can't handle the overhead.
13:06:23 <d4ndo[m]> lub: is that the official sha256 tool from microsoft?
13:06:30 <TrasherDK> $ curl https://web.getmonero.org/downloads/hashes.txt -s | gpg --verify | shasum -c --ignore-missing
13:06:30 <TrasherDK> Unknown option: ignore-missing
13:06:30 <TrasherDK> Type shasum -h for help
13:06:30 <TrasherDK> gpg: Signature made Thu Mar 19 04:51:04 2020 SEAST
13:06:30 <TrasherDK> gpg:                using RSA key 81AC591FE9C4B65C5806AFC3F0AF4D462A0BDF92
13:06:30 <TrasherDK> gpg: Can't check signature: No public key
13:07:17 <selsta> TrasherDK: did you add binaryFate’s public key?
13:07:23 <d4ndo[m]> binaryfate signed the last release.
13:07:28 <azy> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/monero-project/monero/master/utils/gpg_keys/binaryfate.asc
13:07:35 <azy> https://web.getmonero.org/downloads/hashes.txt
13:07:48 <Luuubb> d4ndo: I don't know what you mean with official sha256 tool, but it's built-in starting with powershell 4.0 and using the .net methods
13:08:21 <d4ndo[m]> lub: Ok- so it is official then.
13:09:12 <TrasherDK> selsta: No. Just ran the command in a git bash shell, to show it can be done on windows.
13:09:28 <d4ndo[m]> Does Windows10 support bash now? I heard some news a while ago, but i did not verify it.
13:09:38 <selsta> looks like windows has a different version of shasum if it doesn’t understand --ignore-missing
13:10:17 <TrasherDK> $ bash --version
13:10:17 <TrasherDK> GNU bash, version 4.4.23(1)-release (x86_64-pc-msys)
13:10:17 <TrasherDK> Copyright (C) 2016 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
13:11:18 <Luuubb> it has WSL (and most recently WSL v2), where you have a complete linux userspace and in v2 I think also a linux kernel
13:11:24 <Luuubb> you can install ubuntu, debian etc. from the microsoft store and use bash that way
13:12:29 <TrasherDK> Way to go. Install Linux to verify your windows binaries :D
13:12:44 <d4ndo[m]> cool
13:13:31 <selsta> hmm the command I posted above does not work anymore :(
13:13:58 <TrasherDK> Even better. Upgrade to Windows 10, to get WSL, and then install Linux  to verify your windows binaries :P
13:14:15 <selsta> `curl https://web.getmonero.org/downloads/hashes.txt -s | gpg | shasum -c --ignore-missing`
13:14:20 <selsta> that was the correct one :D
13:16:54 <TrasherDK> I don't remember the commands I used to verify the GUI, but I did it in Git bash shell. The CLI I build on Linux so not verifying those.
13:17:37 <selsta> yep shasum and gpg is all that is required
13:18:23 <d4ndo[m]> !verify
13:18:23 <qoopbot> d4ndo[m]: gpg --verify hashes.txt && sha256sum -c hashes.txt
15:43:24 <torrit> Hey guys so I'm hitting this issue when I run the monero wallet rpc. Here is the command I'm using ./monero-wallet-rpc --testnet --rpc-bind-ip <vm_ip> --rpc-bind-port 28083 --disable-rpc-login --wallet-dir path/to/wallet/dir --confirm-external-bind and here is how I run the daemon ./monerod --testnet --rpc-bind-ip <vm_ip> --confirm-external-bind so
15:43:24 <torrit> I'm running my rpc and daemon on one vm and I have my application code on another, the problem is the rpc process will start but when I run a command (my application executes an rpc command) It will load the wallet but then I'll get an error stating it couldn't find an mms file called <wallet_name>.mms and it will error out and lose it's connection
15:43:24 <torrit> to the daemon. Have you guys even seen this error
15:44:37 <moneromooo> You can ignore that message. Any other error ?
15:47:11 <torrit> I think I figured it out. I ran the monero daemon without the --rpc-bind-ip and it didn't give me the "no connection to daemon" error
15:47:37 <torrit> yup, that worked for some reason
18:34:33 <gordon_fr33man[m> Hey fam. I'm completely new to monero. Can you suggest any good resources for getting started?
18:35:53 <moneromooo> Look at getmonero.org and follow links maybe.
18:35:59 <jwinterm> gordon_fr33man[m, do you want to setup a full node, or just run wallet on phone?
18:37:22 <netrik182[m]> gordon_fr33man: also take a look here https://www.monerooutreach.org/stories/getting-started-helping-monero.html
18:39:07 <gordon_fr33man[m> netrik182: Thanks!
18:39:41 <gordon_fr33man[m> jwinterm: I guess eventually full node. Still very new to crypto in general.
18:40:39 <jwinterm> for phones there is monerujo for android, or cake wallet for ios or android
18:40:49 <gordon_fr33man[m> moneromooo: Many thanks
18:41:02 <jwinterm> I like monerujo, but cake is apparently very good as well
18:41:39 <gordon_fr33man[m> I'll check them both out. Can I store any altcoin on a hardware wallet?
18:42:02 <jwinterm> not any, but many
18:42:13 <jwinterm> I think monerujo actually works with ledger nano s
18:42:17 <jwinterm> not sure about cake
18:42:27 <gordon_fr33man[m> Oh good thats what I have!
18:55:07 <Jackman1> hi
18:55:51 <Jackman1> is there other use cases for monero other than acting as a currency?
18:56:45 <wizardsmoke> Yeah
18:57:12 <yanmaani> No
18:57:47 <moneromooo> Mooo.
19:06:46 <needbrrrrrrr90> It makes a nice paperweight
19:07:10 <needbrrrrrrr90> You can also make a delicious holiday dish out of it (the specific holiday is left as an exercise to the reader)
19:12:32 <Jackman1> is there other use cases for monero other than acting as a currency?
19:12:39 <Jackman1> not at all?
19:13:12 <moneromooo> If you shoehorn, sure. But it's shoehorning.
19:21:07 <Jackman2> hey
19:21:37 <Jackman2> seriously, there is not one single use case other than using monero as an extremely unstable currency?
19:23:50 <moneromooo> Unstable ?
19:24:09 <moneromooo> Oh you mean exchange rate, right ?
19:24:58 <moneromooo> I don't think it'd be particularly well adapted to other things, though as I said you could shoehorn things in.
19:25:13 <[-mugatu-]> Jackman2: unstable? it basically hasn't moved in days
19:25:26 <moneromooo> You could do voting, encrypted chat, but meh.
19:26:00 <Jackman2> yes the exchange rate is unstable
19:26:10 <Jackman2> extremely unstable
19:28:41 <moneromooo> Did you have any particular use in mind for that question ?
19:28:54 <Jackman2> well
19:29:05 <wizardsmoke> Monero is a digital collectible like Pokemon cards
19:29:23 <Jackman2> I've to much faith about the usability of crypto tokens as currencies
19:29:43 <Jackman2> due to their unstable  exchange rates
19:29:56 <Jackman2> however I like anonymity
19:30:14 <Jackman2> so I was wondering what could monero be used for more than buying drugs
19:31:38 <Jackman2> as 99.9% of mainstream companies would judge infinitely unacceptable to take such a great rate risk by using monero
19:32:05 <selsta> is privacy only for criminals?
19:32:15 <moneromooo> You could use it to... sell drugs ?
19:32:18 * moneromooo runs
19:32:56 <Jackman2> yes I know that
19:32:59 <[-mugatu-]> use it to get rich. Buy low, sell high
19:33:18 <Jackman2> privacy coin wit extremely unstable exchange rate, yes is only for criminals
19:33:42 <Jackman2> not going to debate the obvious
19:33:47 <selsta> So Bitcoin is stable in your opinion?
19:33:51 <Jackman2> no
19:34:01 <moneromooo> Anyway, I assume drug users are not super wealthy, so so if they can take the exchange rate dice roll, so can buyers of anything else. I'm not sure that's the most salient argument against cryptocurrencies. It's more like... why would I use it since I can use paypal and I don't care about privacy (or being scammed).
19:35:00 <Jackman2> I'm not going to debate such an obvious fact that no mentally sane company would accept crazy unstable currencies.
19:35:28 <UkoeHB_> Won't necessarily always be the case
19:35:59 <Jackman2> so either monero have more use cases than being a currency, or it's nothing more than a crime currency
19:36:00 <UkoeHB_> but 'Monero' literally means 'money' so idk what you expect
19:36:30 <selsta> monero, made for criminals by criminals
19:36:37 <[-mugatu-]> ^
19:37:13 <moneromooo> Only because people have that attitude, sadly. It's self perpetuating.
19:37:31 <Jackman2> I'm was hoping that there would be more things pushing the prices than  demand for drugs and speculation
19:37:53 <moneromooo> Part of me really hopes there's a huge privacy rape in the near future so I can feel schadenfreude at all those people whose inaction causes me so much grief trying to keep mine.
19:38:05 <selsta> What did cryptocurrencies achieve apart from being digital currencies?
19:38:09 <moneromooo> But it's not nice, so the other part of me hopes not ^_^
19:38:10 <selsta> I’m not aware of anything else.
19:38:18 <UkoeHB_> thankfully Monero is highly private and fungible, so whether or not criminals use it will not affect you :) just like all 'illegal' cash transactions have no bearing on my cash usage
19:38:19 <Jackman2> they didn't achieve being currencies
19:38:44 <[-mugatu-]> Jackman2: can you please tell us why RYO is the best crypto currency
19:38:58 <Jackman2> idk ryo
19:39:05 <selsta> Guess then they achieved nothing :P
19:39:07 <Febo> Monero is used for anything and by anyone just like any money.
19:39:13 <Jackman2> no
19:39:25 <Jackman2> for drugs by dealers and for speculation
19:39:35 <UkoeHB_> you seem to know a lot about how Monero is used
19:39:37 <Jackman2> learn to see the reality please
19:39:46 <Febo> It is permisionless. There is no one that can say no for you to use it.
19:39:48 <Jackman2> obvious in front of your eyes
19:40:03 <Febo> Most drugs are sold for USD
19:40:11 <Jackman2> idc
19:40:26 * beep_[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/DKpPzxQnnwTDjmcrIRcZBdJm >
19:41:11 <yanmaani> Jackman2: Do you know about hedging?
19:41:22 <Jackman2> yes
19:41:30 <yanmaani> So how come they can't hedge?
19:41:40 <moneromooo> Those cute little animals with lots of spikes ?
19:41:44 <yanmaani> I mean there are other issues to accepting payments in XMR, but volatility is not one of them.
19:41:56 <Jackman2> because there is no put options available on monero
19:42:02 <yanmaani> There are futures
19:42:07 <Jackman2> and because most companies are not trading companies
19:42:11 <yanmaani> hedging with put options is completely retarded
19:42:16 <Jackman2> and because most companies don't hedge
19:42:43 <yanmaani> Because they accept currencies like JPY, EUR, USD, where such isn't a problem
19:42:57 <Jackman2> and because hedging a possible 2% drop in some fiat currency is different than trying to hedge against 50% moves of monero
19:43:09 <yanmaani> Is it?
19:43:12 <Jackman2> yes
19:43:18 <yanmaani> Trading futures on USD/JPY is heavily regulated
19:43:23 <yanmaani> and needs to you to be a bank
19:43:23 <Jackman2> idc
19:43:34 <yanmaani> any schmuck can trade XMR/USD futures
19:43:42 <Jackman2> disgusting
19:43:48 <[-mugatu-]> lol
19:43:48 <yanmaani> would be trivial to code a payment processor that did it for you
19:43:57 <UkoeHB_> ^.^
19:44:08 <Jackman2> oh yeah bot hedge trading awesome
19:44:42 <Jackman2> your lucidity is being fogged by your hopes, dreams, and ignorance
19:44:47 <yanmaani> the algorithm is simple: quote a price in USD. When hitting 'pay' button, convert to XMR. When payment is in mempool, sell that notional worth of XMRUSD futures.
19:44:58 <UkoeHB_> did you just come here to troll or ?
19:44:58 <yanmaani> you seem to be awfully angry Jackman2
19:45:05 <yanmaani> Is there anything on your mind weighing you down?
19:45:13 <Jackman2> yes you
19:45:13 <UkoeHB_> I am curious as well
19:45:55 <moneromooo> Nice. #hedgehog actually exists.
19:46:18 <yanmaani> (the vol in the X hrs until then isn't so bad - if we say they have 2hrs to pay that gives appx. 1 sigma = sqrt(2/(24*365))*annualized vol;
19:46:30 <selsta>  Is it a channel that talks about hedgehogs or some software? lol
19:46:43 <yanmaani> with annualized vol of 80%, that's 1.2%
19:46:46 <moneromooo> I dunno. I left after saying hi.
19:47:02 <yanmaani> even if you get perfect adverse selection, that's a lower fee than most card processors
19:47:18 <yanmaani> and this disregards the bit where you presumably sell some sort of merchandise
19:47:52 <yanmaani> if you manage to offer people a 1.2% discount and that makes them buy it whereas they previously wouldn't have bought it, that's objectively good business
19:48:41 <yanmaani> and that ignores the bit where there is no way in hell that your customers will watch your checkout page and try to use it for trading)
19:49:32 <Jackman2> why would anyone do that
19:49:38 <Jackman2> and how is that anonymous
19:50:15 <Jackman2> "the algorithm is simple: quote a price in USD. When hitting 'pay' button, convert to XMR. When payment is in mempool, sell that notional worth of XMRUSD futures."
19:50:16 <moneromooo> That's the sad thing about people who complain about drug money. It's not like it makes the money worse. Might as well try not to breathe air criminals breathed before. Self perpetuating idiocy tbh.
19:50:25 <yanmaani> Why would anyone do what?
19:50:35 <moneromooo> But hey. It'll ptobably fail, but at least we'll have tried.
19:50:41 <Jackman2> how is that anonymous, even
19:50:43 <yanmaani> Why would a merchant hedge their income? To reduce risk
19:50:44 * moneromooo continues trying ^_^
19:51:04 <yanmaani> How is it anonymous? The client is still anonymous, the merchant can be, depending on where he sells his futures
19:51:32 <yanmaani> For example, XMRXBT futures are readily traded on Eastern 'fuck compliance' exchanges
19:51:36 <yanmaani> and XBTUSD hedging is trivial
19:51:38 <Jackman2> let says you want to buy 50k$ worth of merchandise
19:51:43 <yanmaani> yeah
19:52:04 <Jackman2> you are a big enterprise
19:52:09 <UkoeHB_> drug markets increase the array of goods priced in and reduce overall fluctuations in purchasing power, a win for me!
19:52:11 <Jackman2> you regularly do that
19:52:19 <Jackman2> you need stability and certainty
19:52:31 <yanmaani> Wait, the enterprise is selling or buying?
19:52:36 <yanmaani> Or both customers are enterprises?
19:52:43 <Jackman2> is buying
19:52:57 <Jackman2> so you need to buy 50k$ worth of monero
19:53:14 <Jackman2> and you wanna keep it anonymous for some reason
19:53:14 <yanmaani> yeah then you just buy the monero and send it instantly
19:53:16 <yanmaani> that's not even hard
19:53:18 <Jackman2> how do you do
19:53:18 <yanmaani> what
19:53:30 <yanmaani> well you say, "hey, I'd like to buy $50k of monero"
19:53:34 <yanmaani> and someone quotes you a price
19:53:36 <yanmaani> and you trade
19:53:38 <yanmaani> and you pay
19:53:39 <Jackman2> where
19:53:41 <yanmaani> what, that's not even hard
19:53:51 <yanmaani> OTC desks, IRC, KYC'd exchanges
19:53:53 <yanmaani> don't matter
19:53:56 <Jackman2> explain the process of buying the monero with great details
19:54:04 <[-mugatu-]> lmao
19:54:14 <yanmaani> 1) go to any exchange
19:54:18 <yanmaani> 2) click the 'buy' button
19:54:20 <yanmaani> 3) done
19:54:30 <Jackman2> and how is it "stable, secure, anonymous" and fast because crypto is mean to be fast
19:54:45 <yanmaani> You're anonymous to the seller, since Monero is anonymous
19:54:53 <UkoeHB_> crypto is mean but idk about fast
19:55:01 <yanmaani> it's reasonably fast, since the transaction time is still just 2m or whatever
19:55:09 <Jackman2> I hope the seller has some shipping address for this 50k$ merchandise
19:55:11 <yanmaani> anyway, aren't you moving the goalposts?
19:55:26 <yanmaani> We were talking about buying stuff from a seller, where the seller is hedging
19:55:36 <needbrrrrrrr90> And he will continue to do so until you stop talking in exasperation, claiming victory over the Monero idiots :D
19:55:38 <yanmaani> because he isn't interested in Monero exchange rate risk
19:55:38 <Jackman2> I click the buy button, I get the message "not enough funds"
19:55:42 <needbrrrrrrr90> Despite being a nutter lol
19:55:51 <Jackman2> then what do I do
19:55:54 <[-mugatu-]> needbrrrrrrr90: :D
19:56:04 <yanmaani> well, you transfer in money to the exchange. Have you never used a bank before?
19:56:26 <needbrrrrrrr90> Tfw someone compares the stability of Monero to the largest currency on the planet and not the currency of normal nations
19:56:28 <[-mugatu-]> pls don't stop. This is entertaining
19:56:31 <needbrrrrrrr90> Tfw someone thinks that it can't grow
19:56:44 <Jackman2> how long does it takes, is it anonymous, is the exchange stable, trustworthy and regulation-free
19:57:02 <needbrrrrrrr90> Tfw the dollar is used in most global drug trade
19:57:06 <Jackman2> needbrrrrrrr90: because eurodollars
19:57:06 <needbrrrrrrr90> Do you use dollars? Wtf?
19:57:11 <needbrrrrrrr90> You're supporting criminals jsrk
19:57:12 <needbrrrrrrr90> Jerk
19:57:26 <yanmaani> depends on your bank. Most civilized countries have instant bank transfers. You're anonymous to the seller. The exchange rate is irrelevant.
19:57:38 <yanmaani> by the law of one price, it will be trustworthy and unregulated
19:57:56 <Jackman2>  all europe SEPA transferts are 1 day delay, if not 2. 3 on weekends
19:58:14 <needbrrrrrrr90> Monero is 20 minutes
19:58:19 <needbrrrrrrr90> Wins that one ez
19:58:20 <[-mugatu-]> RYO is anonymous, stable, trustworthy, regulation free, and has unlimited liquidity. It also provides anonymous shipping addresses
19:58:36 <Jackman2> 20 minutes is enough for monero to drop 2%
19:58:47 <Jackman2> why would anyone doing serious biz accept that
19:58:58 <needbrrrrrrr90> National currencies drop that much too lol
19:59:01 <needbrrrrrrr90> Also you can hedge my guy
19:59:05 <needbrrrrrrr90> Shorting exists
19:59:10 <needbrrrrrrr90> Ezpz learn to finance
19:59:22 <ndorf> DTFT
19:59:38 <needbrrrrrrr90> A lack of knowledge on your part doesn't imply the currency doesn't work, have you done research into what shorting is?
19:59:41 <Jackman2> and why do you ignore all the IRL process behind actually doing the transaction from A to Z, and only focus on the part that interrest you while ignoring the real hard facts that surround it
19:59:42 <needbrrrrrrr90> I'll wait, don't worry
19:59:47 <needbrrrrrrr90> Stop moving goalposts lol
20:00:11 <needbrrrrrrr90> It's almost like you don't want an answer, you just want to shout uninformed opinions at us
20:00:22 <needbrrrrrrr90> Which is like. Fine I guess. But why? You could easily just learn.
20:00:27 <Jackman2> I try to make you lucid but you dumb fogged mind
20:00:35 <needbrrrrrrr90> That's not very  nice
20:00:57 <Jackman2> but I'm a trader my job is to clearly understand what's going on behind people's dreams
20:01:00 <UkoeHB_> "20 minutes is enough for monero to drop 2%" -> "20 minutes is enough for monero to drop 2% in terms of USD"; it's a big point, since if there is a large market with many prices, those prices are (overall) quite stable and react quite slowly to changes in other prices (such as the price in USD)
20:01:01 <needbrrrrrrr90> I would appreciate it if you were more pleasant :)
20:01:07 <yanmaani> Jackman2: no it isn't
20:01:16 <needbrrrrrrr90>  Clearly your mind is fogged if you think you're good at trading...
20:01:20 <yanmaani> 1 SD for 20 minutes is trivial to calculate
20:01:25 <needbrrrrrrr90> You don't seem to understand the basics of hedging
20:01:30 <yanmaani> I posted the formula above
20:01:53 <yanmaani> 1 sd = P*Ann vol*sqrt(T/365)
20:01:57 <needbrrrrrrr90> Jack, can you explain what hedging is? In your own words
20:02:00 <needbrrrrrrr90> Please don't copy paste
20:02:17 <needbrrrrrrr90> I don't think youre operating with the right definitions :)
20:02:21 <asymptotically> needbrrrrrrr90: grrr, he's a pro trader. don't patronise him!
20:02:22 <needbrrrrrrr90> Let's clear this up from the start!
20:02:32 <needbrrrrrrr90> Just keep asking him about hedging before moving on
20:02:35 <needbrrrrrrr90> Don't let him change the subject
20:02:36 <yanmaani> gonna bet you $100 Jackman1 has never set foot at a trading desk
20:02:40 <needbrrrrrrr90> ^^^^^
20:02:45 <yanmaani> Jackman2, sorry
20:02:58 <Jackman2> idc
20:03:03 <Jackman2> I know what hedging is
20:03:04 <needbrrrrrrr90> Trading 100x leverage on bitmex doesn't make you a professional
20:03:06 <yanmaani> whatever happened to jackman1 btw? did you kill him?
20:03:16 <needbrrrrrrr90> Clearly you don't jack
20:03:22 <needbrrrrrrr90> Can you please explain?
20:03:40 <needbrrrrrrr90> What is hedging, in your words
20:04:13 <Jackman2> let's say you're a company in USA, someone is gonna send you 500k EUR next month
20:04:36 <Jackman2> you fear meanwhile the EUR 💶 will devalue VS usd
20:04:47 <[-mugatu-]> 100x is for noobs. To binance.com/MyRefLinkInfoHere and trade at 125x like a chad.
20:04:52 <Jackman2> you short it
20:04:55 <[-mugatu-]> go to* even
20:05:02 <needbrrrrrrr90> How is this different from Monero?
20:05:12 <yanmaani> Jackman2: And which instrument do you use for this trade?
20:05:19 <needbrrrrrrr90> You can easily short monero :)
20:05:53 <asymptotically> yanmaani: a ukulele
20:05:56 <needbrrrrrrr90> How can you claim to know what you're talking about with regards to hedging, yet not realize that hedging just requires the ability to short sell?
20:06:05 <needbrrrrrrr90> It's like half your brain is gone
20:06:13 <Jackman2> eur/usd doesn't move by 2% in 20 mins
20:06:14 <needbrrrrrrr90> You got partway there and then just....mentally hit a wall
20:06:17 <Jackman2> xmr can
20:06:18 <yanmaani> to be gone implies that something at one point in time was there in the first place.
20:06:27 <yanmaani> Jackman2: Which instrument do you use to put on this trade?
20:06:29 <needbrrrrrrr90> Lmao it takes seconds to short dude
20:06:40 <needbrrrrrrr90> You're revealing your ignorance on the subject
20:06:53 <needbrrrrrrr90> 'pro trader' lmao
20:06:57 <needbrrrrrrr90> This guy
20:06:57 <Jackman2> and you seem to not realize that there is actual steps to actually do to actually start the hedge and that it can takes more than 20mins
20:07:17 <needbrrrrrrr90> Maybe for traditional finance!
20:07:24 <needbrrrrrrr90> Not crypto, ez
20:07:25 <yanmaani> hey Jackman2, how do you hedge your dollars?
20:07:28 <jwinterm> this is #mofi
20:07:36 <jwinterm> not #tradfi
20:08:13 <Jackman2> yeah the guy call some clerk heyi ima buy 500k$ worth gimma monero quote then phone CEO who confirm to treasurer to hedge to come tommorow at office to turn on computer send money to futures exchanges and blind click short in 1 sec
20:08:46 <needbrrrrrrr90> Thats a scale issue, its gotta go to the moon in price and it'll be stable
20:08:56 <yanmaani> Dollars, not Monero. If you have 500k euros coming in, how do you hedge them?
20:09:22 <Jackman2> short sell them
20:09:34 <yanmaani> And with which instrument do you put on this trade?
20:09:43 <Jackman2> futures
20:09:45 <Jackman2> why
20:10:08 <yanmaani> And why do you use futures, rather than put options?
20:10:36 <Jackman2> because it's less risky if price turns against you
20:10:40 <Jackman2> for a company
20:10:49 <yanmaani> try again
20:10:58 <Jackman2> no
20:11:06 <Jackman2> what's your point
20:11:07 <knaccc> put options lose you money if the price doesn't change and volatility drops
20:11:24 <knaccc> so futures are the way
20:11:26 <yanmaani> ^
20:12:06 <Jackman2> well that's true
20:12:20 <[-mugatu-]> good save :3
20:12:55 <needbrrrrrrr90> Arguing that a small entity cannot satisfy the demands of large scale without scaling up is common sense
20:12:56 <knaccc> oops, just scrolled back, didn't mean to interfere with your grilling, yanmaani
20:13:16 <needbrrrrrrr90> Arguing that Monero can't satisfy capacity now and therefore never will is silly
20:13:25 <Mochi101> What's he grilling? Are we all invited?
20:13:30 <needbrrrrrrr90> Just you wait, with scale comes stability
20:13:42 <needbrrrrrrr90> This dude is a pro trader and we are doing an AMA
20:13:49 <needbrrrrrrr90> He knows everything about trading ever
20:14:12 <Mochi101> juuuuge knowledge about trading
20:14:15 <Jackman1> so you whole argument to save cryptoCURRENCIES is some magic instant hedging?
20:14:17 <knaccc> lol i've not been in this channel for a long time. has it become #monero-markets2?
20:14:25 <yanmaani> Jackman1 / Jackman2: What do you trade?
20:14:44 <knaccc> who things hedging will save crypto? i agree with that person
20:14:45 <Jackman1> girls
20:14:48 <UkoeHB_> save it? monero tx volume is rising ^.^
20:15:06 <[-mugatu-]> knaccc: yes, as of 1.5 hours ago or so
20:15:50 <[-mugatu-]> 14:14:45         Jackman1 | girls
20:15:52 <yanmaani> Jackman's age O/U 15.5 1.8 1.8
20:15:54 <[-mugatu-]> 0_o
20:16:07 <[-mugatu-]> ping fbi
20:16:07 <Quotes> pong
20:17:52 <moneromooo> That's just ad hominem.
20:18:24 <moneromooo> Both actually. Jesus.
20:21:54 <yanmaani> nah mate I'm serious, quoting odds
20:24:48 <[-mugatu-]> wait, what happened to moo?
20:25:00 <Jackman1> I don't see the point of monero apart hiding money and buying drugs
20:26:20 <UkoeHB_> thank god we are all entitled to our own opinion \o/
20:26:35 <Jackman1> what do you see monero for UkoeHB_
20:26:56 <yanmaani> buying non-drugs
20:27:11 <yanmaani> I used it to rent a server a few weeks ago, and buy a domain
20:27:17 <yanmaani> worked fine, low fees and good privacy
20:27:36 <yanmaani> UX was OK but could be improved - much prefer Electrum to Monero-GUI, far simpler design
20:27:42 <UkoeHB_> whatever people want, drugs or otherwise :) it's money after all, there is no specific use case
20:28:41 <selsta> yanmaani: though Electrum to Monero-GUI comparison isn’t fair :P
20:28:57 <selsta> Electrum is a light wallet, monero-gui is not
20:29:05 <selsta> Electrum vs MyMonero would be a closer comparison
20:29:09 <yanmaani> no, it is
20:29:13 <yanmaani> It's just purely visual
20:29:22 <yanmaani> Electrum looks like a normal desktop program
20:29:30 <yanmaani> Monero-GUI looks like web stuff
20:29:36 <selsta> both are Qt
20:29:44 <yanmaani> Bitcoin Core looks pretty normal too, but Electrum is nicer.
20:29:56 <yanmaani> yeah but Electrum looks native and has better performance
20:30:16 <wizardsmoke> USAF
20:30:32 <yanmaani> ?
20:30:48 <selsta> Yes, monero-gui is not trying to look native
20:31:02 <selsta> else we would have used QtWidgets
20:31:06 <selsta> instead of QML
20:31:07 <wizardsmoke> What does that even mean, 'look native'?
20:31:22 <[-mugatu-]> native to the os
20:31:39 <[-mugatu-]> macos styled for osx
20:31:45 <[-mugatu-]> windows forms for windows
20:31:48 <[-mugatu-]> etc
20:31:54 <wizardsmoke> gotcha
20:33:14 <needbrrrrrrr90> yay UI styleguides
20:33:30 <needbrrrrrrr90> https://developer.apple.com/design/human-interface-guidelines/
20:33:32 <needbrrrrrrr90> for example.
20:33:44 <needbrrrrrrr90> its why apple stuff looks so apple-y
20:33:58 <needbrrrrrrr90> and why linux looks like it was cobbled together by a bunch of friggin nerds
20:33:58 <selsta> yanmaani: better performance in what way?
20:34:18 <needbrrrrrrr90> except for unity. Unity looks like it was cobbled together by designers with no input from nerds.
20:34:53 <[-mugatu-]> needbrrrrrrr90: hard to find a good nerdy designer
20:35:28 <needbrrrrrrr90> Well yeah, apple hired them all
20:35:41 <needbrrrrrrr90> And Adobe
20:37:42 <yanmaani> selsta: uses less RAM, less latency upon button clicks
20:38:05 <selsta> are you using Linux + VM?
20:38:35 <selsta> there shouldn’t be any latency when you click something
20:39:36 <yanmaani> using Linux on bare metal
20:39:41 <yanmaani> it's slight but it's there
20:42:10 <selsta> Electrum takes 10 seconds+ to start on my system, is that normal?
20:42:44 <selsta> monero-gui uses 300MB RAM, Electrum 100MB, so yea can agree there
20:42:47 <Jackman1> you're mean to receive 500k$ monero from anonymous buyer
20:42:51 <Jackman1> you short sell?
20:42:53 <Jackman1> lmal
20:43:06 <Jackman1> how do you guarantee he pays if not doxxed
20:43:07 <Jackman1> ?
20:43:13 <Jackman1> dangerous as hell
20:43:43 <yanmaani> /filter Jackman1⊙192
20:44:45 <Jackman1> at least dapps have some real use cases
20:44:50 <selsta> lol
20:45:05 <yanmaani> bloody hell why doesn't my filter work
20:45:07 <yanmaani> damn you weechat
20:46:11 <Jackman1> the word cryptocurrencies should be forever changed to cryptoapps
20:46:14 <[-mugatu-]> yanmaani: use /ignore *!Jackman1@*
20:46:17 <[-mugatu-]> ;)
20:46:18 <Jackman1> or cryptotoken
20:46:34 <yanmaani> [-mugatu-]: nope, don't work either
20:46:37 <yanmaani> weechat has different syntax
20:47:04 <yanmaani> tiresome. why don't you go back to #bitcoin-pricetalk, where you can discuss 'number go up'?
20:47:10 <yanmaani> still haven't heard what you were a trader of
20:47:41 <[-mugatu-]> yanmaani: thats what I'm using and /ignore works for me
20:48:14 <yanmaani> /ignore is a different animal
20:48:19 <yanmaani> but that doesn't work either
20:48:23 <yanmaani> ehh whatever
20:49:51 <UkoeHB_> he said girls, so maybe monero isn't being used by human traffickers yet
20:50:27 <UkoeHB_> which I am perfectly happy with  lol
20:56:01 <Jackman1> numbers go up is freedom goes up
20:57:35 <UkoeHB_> why?
20:57:56 <Jackman1> how does money give liberty?
20:59:48 <wizardsmoke> because it allows you to pursue goods
21:00:19 <Jackman1> good, services, time, experience (thus knowledge and intelligence)
21:00:40 <Jackman1> beauty
21:00:46 <Jackman1> spirituality
21:00:49 <Jackman1> sez
21:00:50 <Jackman1> sex
21:01:11 <Jackman1> I'm a capitalist
21:01:55 <wizardsmoke> actually the girls are running the botnets
21:02:08 <asymptotically> pimping out computers is not cool!
21:02:28 <UkoeHB_> the price in USD doesn't necessarily give more freedom, although it may imply it to some extent
21:02:38 <yanmaani> how old are you Jackman1?
21:02:49 <UkoeHB_> asl incoming
21:03:23 <Jackman1> O/U 20 30
21:03:38 <Jackman1> do I look cool geek speaking this way
21:04:04 <wizardsmoke> 🍆
21:04:27 <[-mugatu-]> 37/M/Kiev
21:04:43 <asymptotically> )))
21:05:05 <yanmaani> gonna guess either Indian or underage. Or both
21:05:51 <Jackman1> does that make you horny
21:06:03 <UkoeHB_> the mentalist is among us lol
21:09:12 <UkoeHB_> although imo a capitalist with any ideological rigor would recognize fungible money is the only money worth thinking about, so Im a bit skeptical about your foundation
21:10:35 <Jackman1> what's my foundation
21:10:50 <Jackman1> what money is not fungible
21:11:12 <UkoeHB_> most cryptos lol
21:13:06 <Jackman1> most tainted coins are on binance
21:13:27 <yanmaani> evidence?
21:13:32 <UkoeHB_> so?
21:13:41 <Jackman2> most tainted coins are on binance
21:13:44 <Jackman2> all cryptos are fungible on binance
21:13:44 <Quotes> CRYPTO IS NOT CRYPTOCURRENCY ಠ_ಠ ~ IT REFERS TO CRYPTOGRAPHY, Jackman2
21:14:00 <Jackman2> and huobi
21:14:07 <yanmaani> is Quotes a bot or just a genius?
21:14:32 <UkoeHB_> genius bot?
21:17:13 <UkoeHB_> to begin with, the problem of making a fungible digital currency isn't trivial; expecting there to be an ideal solution is unrealistic
21:17:20 <UkoeHB_> Monero is already pretty amazing
21:19:23 <Jackman2> can I get more than ad revenues with monero js mining
21:19:34 <Jackman2> that's a great use case
21:20:23 <UkoeHB_> seems unlikely
21:20:41 <Jackman2> :(
21:21:02 <UkoeHB_> could be wrong, you'd have to run the maths
21:24:40 <selsta> monero is not mineable with js
21:24:58 <wizardsmoke> Why not?
21:27:00 <selsta> large RAM requirement and missing directed rounding support in javascript / webassembly
21:27:56 <selsta> https://github.com/tevador/RandomX#does-randomx-facilitate-botnetsmalware-mining-or-web-mining
21:28:50 <niocbrrrrrr> I'm not a criminal, how did I end up here?
21:45:59 <yanmaani> Jackman2: why is your connection so poor?
21:46:03 <yanmaani> why do you have 2 users
21:58:45 <Jackman2> my connection seems fine to me
22:26:34 <yanmaani> --man shortly before being disconnected
23:11:56 <hyc> LOL
23:20:57 <wizardsmoke> Am I live streaming right now?