02:30:47 <gingeropolous> hrm.. master not compiling on this box either
02:33:04 <gingeropolous> what other p2p network should ir un
02:34:16 <selsta> gingeropolous: log?
02:34:19 <selsta> master compiles fine currently
02:35:24 <gingeropolous> im trying my standard updates and make clean to see if that works
02:35:33 <gingeropolous> triage
02:37:07 <gingeropolous> wow, even bitcoin ubuntu package not maintained
02:37:13 <gingeropolous> at least this one
02:37:15 <gingeropolous> https://bitlaunch.io/blog/create-a-bitcoin-node-with-ubuntu/
02:41:30 <gingeropolous> selsta, well igot this one: https://paste.centos.org/view/d600d67b
02:42:13 <gingeropolous> i think thats it
02:43:26 <selsta> gingeropolous: which Ubuntu version?
02:43:59 <gingeropolous> hrmmm Welcome to Ubuntu 16.04.6 LTS
02:44:10 <gingeropolous> theresyourproblem.gif
02:44:38 <selsta> yep I guess too old gcc
02:44:45 <selsta> or boost
02:45:37 <selsta> but this looks like gcc
02:46:23 <gingeropolous> man, i found a youtube of aphex twin, stone in focus (fully looped).
02:46:25 <gingeropolous> its awesome
02:48:04 <gingeropolous> selsta, and my ubuntu 18 box gives me this: https://paste.centos.org/view/f52eee0f
02:48:34 <selsta> is this a clean build?
02:49:27 <gingeropolous> uhjmmm i can makie it one
02:53:40 <gingeropolous> allright, 97%
02:57:07 <gingeropolous> yay it built on the newer ubuntu
02:57:33 <selsta> it is also possible to build on older ubuntu
02:57:43 <selsta> but you have to install modern gcc and boost
03:06:45 <gingeropolous> wow wtf. my node is getting stuck on loading checkpoints on starting
03:07:09 <gingeropolous> 2020-04-04 03:06:15.763 E Failed to load hashes - unexpected data size
03:07:09 <gingeropolous> 2020-04-04 03:06:15.763 I Loading checkpoints
03:09:38 <gingeropolous> well, i guess i got a release bin working on another box
03:09:57 <selsta> gingeropolous: it should still start
03:09:58 <gingeropolous> hrm... do i wanna learn bitcoin rpc, or just host a bunch of monero clones so i know how to do stuff
03:10:15 <selsta> E Failed to load hashes - unexpected data size does not mean that it won’t start
03:10:51 <gingeropolous> hrm. it just stalled at loading checkpoints for 2 mintues
03:11:03 <selsta> my master node displays the same and works fine
03:11:18 <gingeropolous> 2020-04-04 03:07:32.195 I Loading checkpoints
03:11:18 <gingeropolous> 2020-04-04 03:09:33.870 I Core initialized OK
03:11:24 <gingeropolous> u haz masternodez?
03:11:29 <selsta> :D
03:12:03 <gingeropolous> oh fuckme bitcoin won't compile
03:12:07 <gingeropolous> fuckit, i'll use monero clones
03:13:09 <gingeropolous> which are worthy of my computer
03:13:54 <gingeropolous> though it'd be cool to get the torrent peer lists in there
03:22:25 <gingeropolous> thanks for the help selsta
03:22:57 <selsta> :)
04:00:37 <TrasherDK> Hmmm. Master node... Is selsta going PoS on us?
04:47:02 <gingeropolous> gah. what do you do when you know what you need to code up but u just don't feel like doing it.
04:47:07 <gingeropolous> wine isn't doing the trick
05:49:01 <TrasherDK> gingeropolous: Ask on stackexchange. That's what all the students do, when they are too lazy to do it themselves :D
13:13:08 <daveyjones557> is there a way to set the lock monero cli wallet lock time?
13:15:17 <daveyjones557> the wallet goes to the lock screen with the cow every 30 seconds or less
13:15:24 <daveyjones557> barely enough time to type in addresses
13:16:07 <daveyjones557> nvm found it
13:17:43 <daveyjones557> please add "set inactivity-lock-timeout" to the cli wallet help pages
13:24:25 <moneromooo> It is.
16:55:28 <cannon-c[m]> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diiuHfPkn9s&feature=youtu.be
16:55:30 <cannon-c[m]> Monero Live, coffee chat, few minutes from now
18:17:56 <onosovereign[m]> Is the monero community working on something like monero pay for contactless payments at stores? I know it's been discussed by other organizations but wanted to see if there was n "internal" effort to make something like this happen
18:54:06 <LZA_Menace> what does it mean when a block has no transactions? did the miners get awarded despite no transactions happening?
18:54:27 <cannon-c[m]> empty block likely
18:54:33 <moneromooo> It means just what it says. And yes.
18:57:42 <moneromooo> And to preempt the likely followup question: if you tried to add a rule that says "no block if no tx", then miners would just add their own txes. Which would be like now, but with more spam.
18:58:28 <cannon-c[m]> Maybe no txes, OR miners actively merge mine on empty blocks + current tx pools to increase odds of finding solution
18:59:02 <cannon-c[m]> <moneromooo "And to preempt the likely follow"> interesting point, never thought of that, thank you. I was proposing on BTC to ban empty blocks
18:59:48 <cannon-c[m]> But as a miner, from profit standpoint, merge mining empty block + tx pool would be good idea for increased chance of finding solution right?
19:00:53 <moneromooo> There's nothing that merge mines with monero, is there ? Used to be fantomcoin IIRC.
19:11:01 <hyc> tari
19:19:50 <cannon-c[m]> i mean minging for empty block alongside curent tx pool
19:19:56 <cannon-c[m]> to increase chances
19:21:34 <moneromooo> Tari wanted to do it, but never did. It's still kinda for later AIUI.
19:21:46 <moneromooo> Define "alongside" ?
19:23:47 <moneromooo> If you mean "not adding any txs will gain a few milliseconds every two minutes", then yes. You do lose the tx fees though.
20:22:42 <selsta> What happens during daylight savings change with the “there might be large hash rate changes, or we might be partitioned, cut off from the Monero network or under attack” message?
20:23:42 <moneromooo> The same thing as outwith daylight savings most likely.
20:24:39 <selsta> ok so the daemon does not get confused?
20:24:40 <moneromooo> If someone mines with local time rather than UNIX time, that might cause this though.
20:25:04 <moneromooo> Does the daemon get confused ?
20:26:09 <selsta> My daemon messaged this message a lot a few days ago and it would match with daylight savings change but it could also be a coincidence, I didn’t verify it.
20:27:03 <tryphe> i would assume nothing happens unless your epoch time is off. i also see that message a lot normally.
20:27:24 <moneromooo> AFAIK the daemon does not use local time.
20:28:55 <moneromooo> I saw those 3.25 days ago.
20:29:01 <tryphe> it's more of an informational message though, like "this happens normally, but things could be broken if you see this a bunch of times"
20:29:23 <selsta> 3 days ago could be it
20:32:19 <tryphe> you might be onto something
20:32:45 <selsta> daylights saving change was ~6 days ago so I don’t think it is realted
20:32:46 <tryphe> i have 10 of those messages from april 1, but they all say "there were 53 blocks in the last 60 mintues, there might be large hashrate changes"
20:35:48 <tryphe> it's doing the comparing with time_t though, so the issue isn't obvious to me
20:38:07 <tryphe> the check is here btw if anyone wants to give it a look: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/src/cryptonote_core/cryptonote_core.cpp#L1910
20:41:54 <tryphe> i've got about 10 of those messages on 3-30 as well, and then none of those message since 3-15 so not sure what happened there
21:01:34 <xmrpow> Hey guys, i was currently thinking about the hashpower centralization in monero. What do you think about it? Is Monero rly decentralized if 66% of the hashpower is managed by two pools??? I rly cant understand that. Everybody who is joining these pools is just devaluing their asset...
21:34:30 <asymptotically> i didn't realise it got that bad again :(
21:34:41 <xmrpow> np...
21:35:25 <xmrpow> Are these guys always spamming the channel?
21:35:59 <asymptotically> oh i meant 2 pools being 66% of the nethash
21:36:09 <xmrpow> ah ok
21:36:51 <xmrpow> Depends on the data source.... https://minexmr.com/pools.html
21:36:59 <xmrpow> https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero
21:37:30 <xmrpow> But in my opinion it is far away from being decentralized.
21:38:44 <asymptotically> it looks worse than bitcoin, but i think that a few of the top btc pools are controlled by bitmain which makes it look better than it is
21:38:49 <Mochi101> In your opinion what would be the hash distribution of a decentralized network?
21:39:26 <Mochi101> 100%/n ?
21:39:30 <fuwa> no pools
21:39:39 <xmrpow> Mochi101 maybe one pool should not own more hashrate than 1% of the total pie
21:39:49 <xmrpow> but you could argue about that
21:39:59 <Mochi101> 1% ?
21:40:03 <xmrpow> maybe
21:40:09 <xmrpow> just guessing...
21:40:10 <Mochi101> Are there even 100 Monero pools out there?
21:40:18 <xmrpow> nope unfortunatley not
21:40:44 <xmrpow> but even if there are 30 the hashrate is not spread
21:41:27 <Mochi101> How would you propose to get people to migrate to other pools?
21:41:43 <asymptotically> M5M400 needs to increase fees for the greater good(TM) :D
21:42:10 <xmrpow> i think they have to understand that they are destroying their asset if they mine in such a big crowd....
21:42:33 <xmrpow> asymptotically i dont think that fees will have an impact....
21:42:57 <xmrpow> There are pools out there with 0% fee and basically no miners...
21:43:45 <xmrpow> Even if the pool has a feature which improves decentralization like self select mode.... They dont care:(
21:43:53 <netrik182[m]> regular income/reward is what makes people choose their pow
21:44:32 <moneromooo> There are so many scams that people don't care if their mining to the single large pool causes the coin to get attacjed, They'll just mine a scam instead and get almost as much money,
21:44:35 <xmrpow> netrik182[m] Do you get your salary every 10 min?
21:45:16 <netrik182[m]> of course not
21:45:16 <fuwa> at least a crypto should not help pool implementations, at all
21:45:17 <xmrpow> In think a payout one per 2weeks would be frequent enough....
21:45:20 <netrik182[m]> i'm not a miner btw
21:45:29 <fuwa> for its own sake
21:45:35 <xmrpow> netrik182[m] ah ok
21:45:37 <netrik182[m]> just thinking about their rationale
21:46:49 <netrik182[m]> maybe monero's tail emission might mean you get more coins today than at the end of the month
21:47:01 <xmrpow> moneromooo are there any ideas how we could tackle the problem on a protocol level? Should be quite difficult...
21:47:08 <netrik182[m]> but most people actually don't even know about tail emission anyway
21:47:39 <xmrpow> netrik182[m] that s a point.
21:47:56 <xmrpow> But i dont think it does make such a big difference.
21:48:39 <xmrpow> if you can find a block once per two weeks you are fine and therefore you just need maybe 200khs
21:48:48 <moneromooo> There was an idea where a miner would have to sign with a secret key, I forget the details.
21:48:50 <xmrpow> should be enough.
21:49:26 <moneromooo> The thing is though, if you make it impossible for pools, a certain percentage of miners will just not mine, rather than mine solo.
21:49:42 <fuwa> solo miner will benefit
21:49:48 <asymptotically> waiting 2 weeks for a reward sounds fine, but waiting 2 years for a much lower reward would suck
21:49:57 <moneromooo> So it opens another attack, since those people, though they can't help a pool adversary, also don't defend.
21:50:10 <xmrpow> asymptotically yea two years would rly suck...
21:51:11 <xmrpow> moneromooo is there any doc concerning this idea?
21:51:14 <moneromooo> An idea I had was to require a lot of data transfer as part of initializing each block. Pools would have to have either massive pipes, or few miners.
21:51:28 <moneromooo> I guess it's kinda similar to using the chain as scratchpad.
21:51:37 <moneromooo> Dunno. I forget which coin that was.
21:53:02 <moneromooo> Oh, another idea I had was to make it so a miner can lock the coinbase for N blocks (currently fixed at 60). The longer the lock, the more the coinbase amount. To up to, say, 6 months.
21:53:44 <moneromooo> Then people would not trust a pool for 6 months. They'd only get full amount if they locked for 6 months -> solo, because you only trust yourself.
21:54:07 <xmrpow> sounds interesting
21:54:25 <moneromooo> All half baked, mind. Except the secret key idea, that was another coin somewhere.
21:54:34 <fuwa> but then miners can't cache out
21:54:39 <fuwa> *cash
21:54:59 <xmrpow> Wouldn't that locking idea be a massive protocol change?
21:55:03 <asymptotically> then you get a DASH effect where all of the coins are locked up and people can't dump :D
21:55:10 <moneromooo> Fairly simple.
21:56:03 <fuwa> forced to hold for 6 months?
21:56:15 <moneromooo> You misunderstand. It's a choice.
21:56:28 <moneromooo> Lock for 60 -> min reward. Lock for 6 months -> larger reward.
21:56:28 <fuwa> ok
21:56:46 <fuwa> but as a miner, i want to maximize my profit
21:57:13 <moneromooo> A flaw is that a rich pool can put up the money upfront, lock for 6 months, but still pay early from the upfront money.
21:57:29 <moneromooo> So it means rich pools (ie, bitmain etc) can still exist, but small pools can't. Sucky.
21:57:46 <moneromooo> That said, small pools don't need a huge amount of upfront money I guess, so might still work out...
21:57:53 <moneromooo> (since they find fewer blocks)
21:58:47 <moneromooo> An interesting attack that comes to mind with this: find a small pool that put some money upfront. Send a lot of hash its way. It'll suddenly have to either bring more money to pay, or stop paying until 6 months...
21:58:59 <moneromooo> So large pools can do that to small pools.
22:00:06 <xmrpow> moneromooo Do you want to force all miners to solo mine with this idea?
22:00:13 <moneromooo> No.
22:00:17 <xmrpow> ok
22:01:14 <M5M400> mine on small pools, people!
22:01:56 <xmrpow> M5M400 Couldnt you do some advertising on your pool site...
22:02:17 <M5M400> lol
22:02:21 <xmrpow> :D
22:02:35 <xmrpow> You could exclude our pool :)
22:02:36 <moneromooo> Increasing pool fee when you go > 50% - https://github.com/moneromooo/cryptonote-universal-pool/commit/5e31901ab3ff1d18eed478b8818577c9093c91d6
22:02:57 <M5M400> xmrpow: I regularly point miners towards smaller pools
22:03:51 <xmrpow> But it does not work....
22:04:52 <fuwa> statistically speaking, a mining farm with all CPUs soloing mining has the same effect as running its own pool
22:05:21 <xmrpow> moneromooo i think it s difficult to always hope on the good faith of the pool operators....
22:05:31 <xmrpow> they make a ton of money....
22:05:50 <M5M400> do they now?
22:06:02 <M5M400> how much money do you think supportxmr makes?
22:06:20 <xmrpow> one sec :)
22:06:20 <asymptotically> are you at least not making a loss now? <3
22:06:31 <M5M400> nah, no loss currently
22:06:46 <xmrpow> M5M400 loss??? rly?
22:07:17 <M5M400> not currently
22:07:26 <M5M400> but there's been months I made huge losses
22:08:14 <moneromooo> When I went to work, I made losses pretty much every day. Every month though, there was a day I made a huge gain. Made it all worthwhile.
22:08:46 <Mochi101> How much does your XMR weigh M5M400 ?
22:08:52 <Mochi101> More or less than a ton?
22:09:12 <M5M400> won't say, but it's about 20cm long
22:09:26 <fuwa> no pool will operate under loss, it's not a charity
22:09:43 <Mochi101> fuwa, some do
22:09:45 <Mochi101> sometimes
22:10:04 <M5M400> fuwa: lol, I sunk 2-3k€/month into the pool after the big crash
22:10:18 <M5M400> *during asic time
22:10:21 <fuwa> then stop doing it
22:10:24 <M5M400> why?
22:10:35 <fuwa> because solo miners will benefit
22:10:36 <xmrpow> M5M400 According to my estimates you should make 350 Euro per day round about....
22:10:39 <fuwa> no one needs a pool
22:10:52 <Mochi101> 350 Euro per day M5M400!!!
22:10:54 <Mochi101> WOW!
22:11:03 <xmrpow> Just estimates...
22:11:13 <xmrpow> I dont know how much you pay for infr
22:11:19 <M5M400> exactly.
22:11:39 <M5M400> but feel free to guesstimate
22:11:49 <Mochi101> can I?
22:11:52 <xmrpow> do you use vps or ded?
22:12:39 <Mochi101> Maybe he just uses his box at his home through his ISP
22:12:45 <Mochi101> really pulling in the cash.
22:12:45 <M5M400> 18 leaf nodes, 2 backend boxes, 4 share validators, 3 messagequeue boxes, backup, constellix....
22:13:09 <xmrpow> how beafy?
22:13:36 <M5M400> xmrpow: varies from 4core i7 to 24core epycs
22:14:01 <M5M400> save you the trouble, it's around 5k€ infra cost/month
22:14:26 <Mochi101> raking in the cash
22:14:59 <xmrpow> there are still 5000 Euros left ;)
22:15:18 <xmrpow> Good full time job ....
22:15:44 <M5M400> .c 200*0.006*1.7*50
22:15:48 <M5M400> no bux
22:16:23 <M5M400> so I count 100€/day
22:16:32 <moneromooo> Always amazes me people will type this into a broadcast IRC window rather than a terminal.
22:16:52 <xmrpow> :D
22:16:57 <moneromooo> It's like we're past the age of information and well into the age of exhibitionism.
22:16:59 <xmrpow> rly private
22:17:10 <xmrpow> good point ;)
22:18:08 <xmrpow> M5M400 but still quite profitable...
22:18:20 <Mochi101> moneromooo, your love of using monerobux as a calculator is well known within the community.
22:18:27 <Mochi101> :P
22:18:48 <M5M400> xmrpow: now subtract the server cost
22:19:12 <moneromooo> I admit, I love trying weird inputs to see what happens.
22:19:31 <xmrpow> M5M400 is 200 the blocks found per day?
22:19:41 <M5M400> ye
22:19:47 <M5M400> give or take
22:20:46 <M5M400> granted, the server costs I stated were from the full blown setup 2 years ago. we reduced cost considerably
22:21:07 <fuwa> sorry, I didn't realize I was really drunk
22:21:13 <fuwa> excuse me
22:21:20 <xmrpow> but if you are having 30 % of the net hashrate shouldnt you get round about 30% of the total coinbase rewards...?
22:21:22 <M5M400> but still around ~3k as it is. which at this point is about equal to our fee income
22:21:48 <M5M400> xmrpow: I do. then I pay it to the miners, except for 0.6%
22:22:32 <M5M400> do you think anyone would mine at sxmr when I just kept the coinbase rewards? :D
22:22:50 <xmrpow> ops sry you have been right with the 100 Euros...
22:23:13 <M5M400> yeap. crazy money.
22:23:14 <xmrpow> per day
22:23:44 <xmrpow> Have you thought about useing other pool software?
22:23:57 <M5M400> no, why?
22:24:10 <xmrpow> Is nodejs pool that efficient?
22:24:34 <M5M400> I didn't benchmark grassies thing yet
22:24:53 <xmrpow> it s javascript so... ;)
22:25:01 <Mochi101> fuwa, it's ok man... You didn't do anything I wouldn't do.
22:25:25 <xmrpow> im running it on a small vps... And it s fine...
22:25:44 <xmrpow> But ofcourse the load makes the difference.
22:25:45 <M5M400> and how many shares/sec do you process?
22:26:09 <M5M400> we're at around 3k shares/sec. and that's just the valid ones.
22:26:58 <xmrpow> We are not even close to that.... :D
22:27:05 <M5M400> of course not :D
22:27:17 <xmrpow> so why the question ? ;)
22:28:01 <M5M400> because I'm trying to make you understand that your "big pools make crazy money" narrative is plainly wrong
22:28:31 <M5M400> but I think it's starting to sink in now
22:28:56 <moneromooo> But you did not do everything Mochi101 would do...
22:29:02 <xmrpow> ok understood.... But you have to understand that i didnt have that much learning time.
22:29:58 <xmrpow> I didnt expect the infr costs to be so high...
22:30:26 <M5M400> all servers are running at ~20% capacity, so I could save a lot on infra costs
22:30:35 <M5M400> until the next DDoS. or sharespam
22:30:50 <xmrpow> thats rly bad...
22:31:04 <M5M400> resilliency is key factor here. people don't like to mine on pools that break down
22:31:28 <xmrpow> ofc...
22:32:16 <xmrpow> But anyway the big pools are a problem for the decentralization.
22:32:42 <Mochi101> :D
22:32:42 <M5M400> agreed
22:33:26 <M5M400> xmrpow: but from my point of view, I prefer the hash mining to my pool - because I trust myself not doing anything shady more than others
22:33:49 <M5M400> if I just pull the plug, do you think people would go to your pool, or to minexmr and the others in the top5?
22:34:02 <M5M400> -> more centralisation
22:34:32 <xmrpow> that s a point. I think everybody should just trust himself in such a system. ;)
22:35:01 <xmrpow> It s not about pulling the plug....
22:36:12 <xmrpow> If you shutdown your pool minexmr would be number one....
22:36:18 <xmrpow> not rly better.
22:36:22 <M5M400> it's already nr1
22:36:28 <M5M400> depending on time of day :D
22:36:33 <xmrpow> sry... ;D
22:37:16 <xmrpow> but it s just such a stupid dilemma
22:37:25 <M5M400> look, I do my part. I kick off botnets on sight; I recommend miners smaller pools;
22:37:42 <M5M400> but if you want growth, you need to put some work in it as well
22:37:53 <xmrpow> Like?
22:38:12 <xmrpow> Do you have any suggestions ?
22:38:30 <M5M400> when I started the pool, I fed it with nicehash for months to get a baseline hashrate and at least a block every other day
22:38:52 <xmrpow> i have already though about that...
22:38:55 <M5M400> community involvement also helps
22:39:06 <xmrpow> and have already tried it for 2days.
22:39:14 <M5M400> why did you stop?
22:39:28 <xmrpow> had to think about it.
22:39:50 <xmrpow> with nicehash you are normally loosing money.
22:40:04 <M5M400> just think of it as marketing expenses
22:40:23 <xmrpow> good point
22:40:39 <xmrpow> Would you tell me how much you lost?
22:41:27 <M5M400> I didn't
22:41:34 <M5M400> I was super lucky on the first 10 blocks :D
22:41:44 <xmrpow> and after that?
22:41:46 <xmrpow> :D
22:41:52 <xmrpow> We have been lucky too ;)
22:42:24 <xmrpow> Do you know other renting platforms?
22:42:31 <xmrpow> Mining rig rental is more expensive
22:42:33 <M5M400> only ever used nicehash
22:42:37 <xmrpow> ok
22:43:13 <M5M400> but in the end, you're not making a huge loss
22:43:44 <xmrpow> would you rent hashrate to a smaller pool if i pay you always in advance?
22:43:53 <M5M400> no
22:43:58 <xmrpow> ok
22:44:01 <xmrpow> thats a word
22:44:09 <xmrpow> would be bad marketing ;)
22:44:28 <M5M400> it's not my hashrate. it's the miners
22:44:47 <xmrpow> ok but they are trusting you that you pay them
22:44:59 <xmrpow> and if they get payed they normally dont care.
22:45:03 <xmrpow> but anyway
22:45:20 <xmrpow> how high was your baseline hashrate?
22:46:08 <M5M400> like 50-100kh (back in 2016)
22:46:19 <xmrpow> ok
22:46:22 <M5M400> but you can't compare cn hashrate with randx hashrate
22:46:27 <xmrpow> ofc