07:23:31 <ErCiccione[m]> These pull requests are more than a month and need to be reviewed: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22needs+review%22
07:23:43 <ErCiccione[m]> I labelled them so that reviewers know are prioritary
07:25:07 <ErCiccione[m]> Please prioritize 973, it's just a refactor but it's an important change. Needed for Weblate
07:59:29 <selsta> will try to review some today
08:02:06 <fluffypony> ErCiccione[m]: can we get Netlify to trigger for those?
08:02:47 <ErCiccione[m]> Sure, doing it now
08:04:22 <ErCiccione[m]> All of them except the Kovri moneropedia have already a preview tho.
08:04:36 <ErCiccione[m]> oh, the roadmap too :)
08:07:42 <ErCiccione[m]> Ok, it's building
08:30:49 <ErCiccione[m]> The previews are up
08:43:47 <ErCiccione[m]> Thanks selsta :)
08:44:14 <ErCiccione[m]> .merge+ #973 #1002
08:44:15 <xmr-pr> Added
08:57:35 <ErCiccione[m]> About 937 (a lot of moneropedia articles translated into Chinese). It was initially opened by  a chinese translator on gitlab. It has been thoroughly reviewed by a native speaker, but i opened the the PR and github and integrated the review, so i cannot approve it by myself. If somebody could take a look at it please do, because it's really a huge amount of work that should go in as soon as possible.
08:57:42 <ErCiccione[m]> I just pushed to trigger netlify and the preview is ready
08:57:56 <ErCiccione[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/937
09:17:24 <fluffypony> tks
10:25:48 <selsta> ErCiccione[m]: would like a second native speaker to read through the revamped homepage before we merge it
10:25:52 <selsta> (I like it from the design)
10:28:31 <selsta> the headlines have weird capitalisation
10:28:49 <selsta> also can you increase the margin between text and button? it’s too narrow IMO
10:29:07 <selsta> would prefer the same margin like headline and text
11:40:44 <ErCiccione[m]> Selsta: you mean english native speaker? If that's the case sure. Would make me feel better too.
11:41:15 <ErCiccione[m]> I will take a look at the rest when i'll be back, i'm on mobile now.
11:41:21 <selsta> yes, I think it is especially important on the front page
11:41:28 <selsta> to have perfect text :)
11:41:59 <ErCiccione[m]> Yeah, definitely.
12:48:23 <ErCiccione[m]> .merge+ #1050
12:48:24 <xmr-pr> Added
12:58:07 <sarang> Monerpedia still contains Kovri materials? (and this is referenced on the home page)
12:58:54 <sarang> Two typos noted on the PR page
12:59:13 <sarang> ^ selsta ErCiccione[m]
13:00:01 <ErCiccione[m]> sarang. Thanks. I've been doing a "kovri cleaning" recently. Since we mention it in a lot of places. There is an open issue to keep track of the progresses: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/910
13:00:26 <ErCiccione[m]> Every time i open a PR which cleans kovri stuff i link it to that issue, so that it's easy for people to browse the progresses
13:01:22 <ErCiccione[m]> we recently removed 22 moneropedia entry which were specifically related to Kovri/i2p
14:32:26 <moneromooo> I just went to see the roadmap page on getmonero.org, it displays grey on grey. I don't have any CSS overrides. I have no JS. The page seems to load no external resources which'd get blocked.
14:32:52 <moneromooo> If it works for others, ignore it, as it's probably my setup. But do check once.
14:34:25 <moneromooo> The "done" ones in 2014-2015 at least. In 2020, the bottom half are visible.
14:34:33 <moneromooo> (ugly though)
14:35:23 <moneromooo> Triptych isn't coming soon though AFAIK. It's a longer term thing.
14:35:35 <moneromooo> Second layer either.
14:35:54 * moneromooo pedantic
14:36:15 <sarang> "We're researching X" != "We plan to deploy X"
14:37:53 <ErCiccione[m]> moneromooo: Could you show me a screenshot of what you see? I'm not sue of what you mean with grey on grey.
14:38:19 <ErCiccione[m]> about second ayer and tryptych, i'm ok with removing them or moving to "future" if people feel that way
14:39:12 <ErCiccione[m]> I was thining of removing the "coming soon" section from 2020 either way, since it's hard to plan if something will be really ready or not. e.g. kastelo
14:39:55 <sarang> Instead of "future" why not use "research" or something?
14:40:24 <sarang> A lot of research (most?) doesn't end up being directly deployable
14:40:46 <moneromooo> https://github.com/moneromooo-monero/bitmonero/blob/rmss/rmss.jpeg
14:41:41 <moneromooo> It's an old FF since I need a security extension (ironic...) that doesn't work on recent FF. If it's just that, it can be ignored.
14:41:47 <ErCiccione[m]> sarang: The point of the 'future' tab is to show what will be added in the future, so i think would be better to just remove everything we are not "planning to add", withiut adding what's being researched. I think that would be harder to maintain
14:42:09 <moneromooo> Are the orange ellipses meant to look like this ?
14:42:46 <ErCiccione[m]> No. That should be a problem of cache. Try cleaning that up
14:43:11 <ErCiccione[m]> moneromooo ^
14:43:24 <ErCiccione[m]> we always have this kind of problems after css changes
14:43:46 <ErCiccione[m]> i guess has been some time since you visited that page :)
14:44:02 <moneromooo> Wheee. My apologies. Totally readable and nice now.
14:44:12 <moneromooo> Probably years :)
14:44:32 <ErCiccione[m]> eheh :)
14:45:11 * moneromooo amused by the use of train end of line buffers for "coming soon". Very... evocative :D
14:46:14 -xmr-pr- erciccione opened issue #1052: Add MRL SVG logo to 'press kit' page
14:46:14 -xmr-pr- > https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/1052
14:46:45 <ErCiccione[m]> :P
15:54:55 <ErCiccione[m]> All suggestions added. Please give another review to the homepage: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/pull/948
15:55:08 <ErCiccione[m]> netlify's preview was updated too
15:58:18 <fluffypony> hi frenz
15:58:30 <fluffypony> I uploaded some historical stuff that you may enjoy and find useful
15:58:34 <fluffypony> https://github.com/fluffypony/monero-logo-artefacts
15:58:46 <fluffypony> feel free to clone / fork so that there's more copies of this than just on my computer
16:00:41 <ErCiccione[m]> ooh cool. There should be a monero-designs repo somewhere. We could add it there, but also to the website
16:00:57 <fluffypony> I don't know if ancient historical stuff is of interest
16:01:01 <fluffypony> like for the website
16:01:07 <fluffypony> but could definitely go into designs
16:01:09 <fluffypony> feel free :)
16:02:38 <ErCiccione[m]> yeah, probably worth it only for the mrl logo
16:02:53 <ErCiccione[m]> still nice to have tho
16:35:04 <netrik182[m]> ErCiccione: left a comment in #948
16:35:10 <netrik182[m]> Hope it's not too late
17:23:41 <ErCiccione[m]> No worries, i can push again :)
17:54:18 <ErCiccione[m]> netrik182 asymptotically  and others. If you guys are ok with the PR please leave an approval so we can put it in the merge list :)
18:28:04 <selsta> ErCiccione[m]: "Get Some Coins"
18:28:11 <selsta> some capitalized?
18:29:25 <selsta> that’s what I meant with weird capitaliztion
18:29:33 <selsta> but only minor anyway guess this can get merged for now
18:40:49 <ErCiccione[m]> selsta: Should that be capitalized or not? title case confuse me a little 😛 i thought i fixed them all
18:41:00 <ErCiccione[m]> .merges
18:41:00 -xmr-pr- #1002 #1050 #973
18:41:32 <selsta> ErCiccione[m]: you did not capitalize "a" but did "some"
18:42:03 <selsta> so wasn’t sure if that was intended
18:42:22 <asymptotically> did i mess it up in my suggestion? it is quite confusing lol
18:43:48 <ErCiccione[m]> selsta: It's just the result of my ignorance about how title case works. I'm gonna fix
18:44:16 <selsta> I also don’t know how to properly do this
18:44:27 <selsta> but it looked inconsistent
18:44:44 <ErCiccione[m]> asymptotically: no, don't worry
18:45:47 <asymptotically> i think the easiest way is to cheat and use a tool. much easier than memorising rules :) https://titlecase.com/titlecase
18:45:48 <ErCiccione[m]> selsta: i used an online tool for fixing and iirc it suggested it that way ('some' capitalized but not 'a'), i'm gonna double check
18:46:07 <ErCiccione[m]> yeah that's what i used
18:46:20 <selsta> ErCiccione[m]: oh ok didn’t know about that
18:47:59 <ErCiccione[m]> yes i confirm. That tool capitalizes 'some' but not 'a'
18:49:09 <ErCiccione[m]> so i think it's fine
18:50:02 <ErCiccione[m]> .merge+ #948
18:50:03 <xmr-pr> Added
18:50:14 <selsta> like I said no idea how these rules work :D
18:50:38 <ErCiccione[m]> oh luigi1111 since you are merging right now, 948 can go in as well
18:59:05 <ErCiccione[m]> Thanks luigi!
19:00:37 <ErCiccione[m]> now that 948 is merged the "using monero" page doesn't exist anymore. Would be perfect to have a redirect from getmonero.org/get-started/using/ to the homepage
19:00:42 <ErCiccione[m]> binaryfate ^
19:01:23 <binaryFate> ack
19:02:32 <ErCiccione[m]> Feel free to update the website when you want binaryfate, but we will need to flush the cdn right after
19:02:45 <ErCiccione[m]> + redirect, of course
19:03:16 <ErCiccione[m]> "plus redirect, of course"
19:03:25 <ErCiccione[m]> (the plus didn't show up on riot)
19:05:00 <ErCiccione[m]> I'm testing my local master right now btw, just to make sure there are no surprises :)
19:08:03 <ErCiccione[m]> all good
19:30:35 <sarang> I had one question about MRL preprints on the site
19:31:12 <sarang> It used to be the case that we'd maintain two versions of some preprints: one on the site (with an MRL formatting) and one on IACR (with a more standard formatting)
19:31:32 <sarang> This was irritating and wasted time, so now the IACR versions (where they exist) are the only versions, and are externally linked
19:31:49 <sarang> A couple people have suggested still hosting locally, perhaps in case IACR were to be compromised or something
19:32:29 <sarang> Any particular opinions on this? I ask because I noticed that the links to IACR preprints aren't labeled as external links or anything, and appear identical to "in-house" links
19:32:51 <moneromooo> Why were the formattings different ?
19:33:13 <sarang> suraeNoether and I built an MRL document class with the MRL logo and stuff
19:33:30 <moneromooo> Historical reasons then ?
19:33:30 <sarang> but IACR preprints generally use one of a few more standard templates
19:33:33 <sarang> yes
19:33:54 <sarang> Would a good compromise be to label the external links clearly?
19:34:02 <moneromooo> The papers are in git now, right ?
19:34:03 <sarang> Then users can assess if they consider that more risky or not
19:34:12 <sarang> They do exist in Git, yes
19:34:17 <sarang> but the PDFs are on getmonero
19:34:20 <sarang> and/or IACR
19:35:04 <moneromooo> Is the feat "IACR gets pwned, serves crafted PDFs" or "IACR gets pwned, we lose the data" ? THe former I guess, since git (unless the people asking do not know).
19:35:13 <moneromooo> s/feat/fear/
19:36:28 <sarang> The former
19:36:37 <sarang> IACR only hosts a copy of the PDF
19:36:41 <sarang> the TeX source is on git
19:37:35 <sarang> so anyone with git and a tex installation can generate the PDFs themselves
19:37:43 <moneromooo> Keeping a mirror on getmonero.org sounds like something that's easy to automate.
19:37:46 <sarang> Or read the TeX and interpret the math directly, Matrix-style
19:40:03 <sarang> Another more straightforward option (than maintaining separate copies with different formatting) is to just ensure that IACR revisions are accompanied by corresponding monero-site PRs
19:40:28 <sarang> That would mean that the IACR version and the monero-site version could be out of sync, since IACR revisions are instantaneous
19:40:34 <sarang> depending on the workflow used for this process
19:40:51 <sarang> Again, I don't really consider "IACR serves bad PDFs" to be a big risk
19:40:58 <sarang> but thought I'd mention it
19:41:10 <sarang> Maybe labeling external links is reasonable enough to warn users
19:41:11 <sarang> ?
19:41:31 <moneromooo> Certainly. And a link to git.
19:41:52 <sarang> so instead of `Read Paper` (the current link) it'd be `Read Paper (on IACR)` and `View Source (on GitHub)` or something?
19:42:13 <sarang> Then there are still canonical versions of PDFs and sources
19:42:24 <sarang> Having mismatched versions is just annoying
19:42:25 <moneromooo> Sounds like a good idea to me.
19:42:32 <sarang> ^ ErCiccione[m]
19:42:40 <sarang> This will require some extra translation strings
19:42:43 <sarang> Any objection?
19:43:24 <sarang> Or perhaps icons for PDF and source?
19:43:28 <sarang> I dunno, I'm not a designer
19:47:58 <ErCiccione[m]> Yeah we can do that. One of my todo's is to change the way hyperlinks are displayed, so that all external links will have the classic "external link" symbol. Same for the automatic links to moneropedia article (which we link to using @. Like @node links to the 'node' moneropedia entry). This is slightly different, we can do it separately.
19:48:09 <ErCiccione[m]> the extra translatable strings shouldn't be a problem
19:48:16 <ErCiccione[m]> sarang could you open an issue about it?
19:48:49 <sarang> ErCiccione[m]: do you have any particular thoughts on whether or not a clear labeling of the link destination would suffice for users who may be concerned about the possibility that IACR could (hypothetically) be compromised?
19:48:59 <sarang> To be clear, I have _no_ indications that this has ever been the case
19:49:20 <sarang> But yes, I'll open an issue now
19:50:21 <sarang> Also: I am not @sarang on github
19:50:25 <sarang> I am @SarangNoether
19:50:30 <sarang> I don't know who @sarang is
19:50:32 <moneromooo> If they're afraid of IACR PDFs being crafted, they should be afraid of getmonero.org PDFs being crafted tbh.
19:51:00 <sarang> moneromooo: it still seems like a good idea to label external links anyway
19:51:25 <sarang> especially if we want to link to github too, which I also think is a good idea
19:51:33 <ErCiccione[m]> I think we should definitely warn user when they are clicking on a link that goes outside getmonero
19:52:11 <ErCiccione[m]> moneromooo: somebody proposed to add checksums to all PDFs on getmonero, so that people can check if they are genuine
19:52:20 <sarang> But FWIW, there are few sites in the world viewed by more security experts than the IACR archive =p
19:52:27 <ErCiccione[m]> sarang: sorry about that, sometimes i go in automatic mode
19:52:35 <sarang> np
19:52:38 <sarang> just noticed it by chance
19:52:59 <sarang> Adding checksums seems very belt-and-suspenders, and also means someone has to sign them all
19:53:07 <sarang> Otherwise it's useles
19:53:10 <sarang> *useless
19:53:45 <selsta> linking to the source that uses signed git commits should be fine
19:53:54 <selsta> I doubt that pdf hashes would be used often
19:53:57 <ErCiccione[m]> yeah i'm not a big fan of that idea, i just mentioned it because somebody requested it
19:57:34 <sarang> ErCiccione[m]: https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/1053
19:57:44 <sarang> Heh, I don't sign my commits
19:57:57 <sarang> SHA-1 signatures for commits have issues
19:58:20 <sarang> I also don't know of any TeX-vector malware...
20:00:18 <selsta> sarang: you should set up signing commits
20:00:41 <sarang> Certainly could
20:01:14 -xmr-pr- SarangNoether opened issue #1053: Update the link format for MRL preprints
20:01:14 -xmr-pr- > https://github.com/monero-project/monero-site/issues/1053
20:01:28 <ErCiccione[m]> Thanks sarang. i will get to it soon. I will probably use two icons to differentiate
20:02:25 <sarang> Cool
20:02:29 <sarang> As long as it's clear to the user
20:02:57 <sarang> Once that's ready, I can make a PR to include the GitHub links
20:03:07 <sarang> They're not all on the same repo, unfortunately
20:03:44 <sarang> Perhaps it's best to commit the newer papers, which are currently on my research repo, to a `monero-project` repo?
20:03:57 <sarang> This could make it easier to catch any changes if I turned evil
20:04:36 <ErCiccione[m]> Yes, would be better to have everything on the research lab repo in the 'monero-project' project
20:04:56 <ErCiccione[m]> and possibly using signed commits
20:04:57 <sarang> Or maybe a separate publications repo?
20:05:30 <sarang> The research-lab repo is very out of date... suraeNoether and I started using separate repos to ensure that there weren't out-of-date versions of research floating around
20:05:39 <sarang> Plus I like the decentralization it provides to research
20:05:51 <sarang> Anyone can contribute to MRL
20:06:02 <ErCiccione[m]> i think putting everything inside the 'monero-project' umbrella would make people feel safer, but i think what's important is that everything is in the same repo
20:06:16 <sarang> Right, I think I was unclear
20:06:26 <sarang> I think there should be a `monero-project/publications` repo
20:06:31 <sarang> to hold MRL preprints, ZtM, etc.
20:06:47 <sarang> And these can be linked to from the site
20:06:56 <ErCiccione[m]> ah ok, a new repo
20:06:57 <sarang> Then there's more accountability, and it's clear where publications live
20:06:59 <sarang> ya
20:07:10 <sarang> Thoughts?
20:07:30 <sarang> Then it'd require merging from a maintainer
20:07:49 <sarang> which ensures there can't be random commits to malware or some such thing
20:07:50 <ErCiccione[m]> Sounds good to me. If it works for the maintainers and for you MRL guys, i would go for it
20:08:42 <sarang> TBH there aren't that many updates to preprints, but at least this way external PDFs are instantly updated, and the worst case is that GitHub source gets delayed a bit
20:09:01 <sarang> It's not an ideal workflow, but it seems reasonable to me
20:09:01 <sarang> shrug
20:11:01 <sarang> ^ UkoeHB_ this could be used for ZtM too
20:11:25 <sarang> so the link is to a commit signed by a maintainer, reducing risk (in theory)
20:12:34 <ErCiccione[m]> So basically right now the MRL repo is only up for historical reasons, but it's not actively used beside issues, right?
20:13:33 <ErCiccione[m]> sarang ^
20:13:54 <sarang> correct
20:14:18 <sarang> I don't even have a single `master`-type branch on my own research repo, since so many of the projects are separate anyway
20:14:23 <sarang> I use branches for projects
20:15:14 <sarang> It seemed silly to do feature branches and then merge back
20:15:30 <sarang> and having 30 separate tiny repos was annoying
20:20:39 <ErCiccione[m]> I see. Personally i think would be better to clean up (reorganize) the MRL repo and add the PDFs there. Mostly because i like the idea of having everything in one place, but whatever works for you. If you decide to go for a separate repo i would just disable issues and leave the repo as simple "storage".
20:21:03 <ErCiccione[m]> to avoid having people opening issues in 2 repos and having to monitor both
20:21:24 <ErCiccione[m]> but at the end, whatever work for you is ok
20:23:07 <sarang> That opens up the question of the purpose of the `research-lab` repo more broadly
20:23:16 <sarang> A discussion I've had at length with suraeNoether before
20:23:30 <sarang> I don't like that it centralizes research activity
20:23:45 <sarang> I don't like that it was slow to update and therefore out of sync with active work
20:24:04 <sarang> I don't like that multiple independent research projects don't play nicely with the idea of a single `master`-type branch structure
20:24:29 <sarang> That being said, I'm not sure what the ideal arrangement is
20:24:29 <moneromooo> What you need is a... web ring :D
20:24:48 <sarang> I do like that `research-lab` is good destination for issues/discussion
20:25:10 <sarang> and hosting preprints for the site on a github repo under `monero-project` seems wise
20:26:09 <ErCiccione[m]> yeah i see your point. The 'publications' repo sounds like a good compromise
20:26:14 <sarang> So I am open to suggestions about the best way to structure all this
20:26:34 <sarang> What's unfortunate is that anyone who tries to find research by only looking under `monero-project` will be sorely disappointed and find only stale work
20:26:48 <ErCiccione[m]> but i do suggest to disable issues on that repo and clarify that research-lab should be ued instead
20:27:04 <sarang> But to some extent there is no "official" research... there are several active contributors who work as they see fit
20:27:09 <ErCiccione[m]> (for questions/issues)
20:27:09 <sarang> Oh for sure
20:27:35 <ErCiccione[m]> sarang; that could be mitigated by updating the readme of the MRL repo with some info. Right now it's very outdated
20:27:40 <sarang> e.g. Isthmus and friends do a lot of research under their own repos
20:27:45 <sarang> True
20:27:57 <sarang> Perhaps linking to contributors' repos?
20:28:03 <sarang> from the `research-lab` README?
20:28:21 <sarang> This does create some manner of centralization of who gets listed
20:28:31 <sarang> but that could certainly be open to broader community discussion if it came up
20:28:42 <ErCiccione[m]> Yeah, a general overview + links would be useful
20:28:43 <sarang> I doubt too many people would clamor for inclusion in such a list anyway
20:28:57 <sarang> `monero-project/monero` README does list to my repo and suraeNoether's
20:29:13 <sarang> and is there to encourage researchers to reach out with questions etc.
20:29:20 <sarang> s/list/link
20:29:57 <ErCiccione[m]> yeah i don't see that as a problem and if somebody want to be included they can simply request it
23:16:07 <UkoeHB_> sarang sounds fine to me, let me know if I need to do anything