04:15:43 <gingeropolous> i wonder how much damage fake inputs would do to heuristics
14:21:00 <sarang> gingeropolous: you mean generating extra zero-value outputs in transactions?
14:21:14 <sarang> This idea has come up from time to time, for sure
16:00:24 <sarang> Looks like the PoPETs page limits are much better for CLSAG
16:00:37 <sarang> and I could submit there without having to remove anything
16:00:48 <sarang> Next deadline isn't until August though :/
16:27:38 <sarang> I should be able to post a revision on IACR later today
16:27:46 <sarang> Should there be some kind of posting about that?
17:07:56 <Isthmus> @gingeropolous HUSH does this IIRC
17:08:44 <Isthmus> There's an important ratio to consider if implementing this in a decoy-based system
17:09:31 <Isthmus> You could define it a few ways (per txn, per unit time, etc) but the gist is ratio of # outputs created to # outputs showing up in ring signatures
17:10:04 <sarang> Also depends on what heuristics you care about
18:40:09 <sarang> Updated CLSAG preprint: https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/654
18:45:02 <sarang> (same link as before)
18:45:37 <sarang> TeX source also updated: https://github.com/SarangNoether/skunkworks/commit/372ff1b2cbce745b79a87112a3a53a5418d3549b
20:29:47 <gingeropolous> sarang, not even generating zero value outputs, but making a "ring signature" for an input where 0/11 are the real input
20:30:43 <sarang> Not much of a signature anymore =p
20:31:01 <sarang> Since you no longer need to know any private keys
20:33:16 <moneromooo> And you need to private key to generate the key image, or the check will fail, and your ring will be known to be fake.
20:35:55 <iDunk> How about sending 0 amount outputs back to yourself instead of to a random address and use those (if such an amount can be "spent") ?
20:36:21 <iDunk> Or, it that's feasible, use such an output in sweep_single ?
20:36:37 <iDunk> (As a second ring)
20:36:54 <scoobybejesus> if there's a fee paid somehow, seems legit
20:40:28 <UkoeHB_> sending more than one output to yourself at a time can be risky
20:40:55 <UkoeHB_> since loops might be created when you spend them
20:41:06 <sarang> yeah
21:38:26 <Isthmus> Hmm that's fascinating. So the input amount from an entire ring could be 0
21:39:06 <Isthmus> And zero fee txns are allowed (just not propagated)
21:39:46 <Isthmus> So could we theoretically have a 1-in/1-out transaction where the input is a dummy output with 0 XMR, the fee is 0, and the output is empty? (a miner would have to put it in the block themselves)
21:52:40 <sarang> That would balance
22:32:14 <Isthmus> pointless but interesting
23:21:20 <sarang> ^ the motto of a lot of mathematics Isthmus =p