00:01:24 <selsta> yes
00:01:41 <DrHanner> cool i found one
00:01:51 <selsta> https://hackerone.com/monero
00:03:23 <selsta> please report through hackerone and make sure to read the Vulnerability Response Process
00:04:11 <DrHanner> do they understand german ?
00:04:24 <selsta> most likely not
00:17:25 <sgp_> Isthmus: did you have a chance to segregate the coinbase and non-coinbase spends for Bitcoin?
00:27:14 <DrHanner> so send the report
00:30:13 <gingeropolous> DrHanner, if you can't translate to english, just use google translator or something
00:30:34 <gingeropolous> but yeah send the report :)
00:32:47 <DrHanner> darn i so want to talk about it :P
01:11:55 <moneromooo> Oh yeah, send a confidential text to one of the biggest info slurpers around. Can't miss.
01:12:51 <DrHanner> lol i see your point
01:13:07 <DrHanner> but it is easy fixable so that is a plus
01:13:25 <DrHanner> else i am pretty impressed with monero
01:13:41 <DrHanner> quite a solid algorithm
01:13:50 <moneromooo> Please ping me when it's filed, so I can check. There'll be a release soon so it'd be nice if whatever you found can be fixed in that.
01:14:22 <DrHanner> i send it like 40 minutes ago
01:14:34 <moneromooo> Thanks.
01:38:52 <moneromooo> DrHanner: I replied, not sure if you're getting notifications (I am not).
01:40:34 <Isthmus> Hey atoc - sorry for the belated followup, was super swamped today.  Insight started with professional training Fellowships for specialized tech fields, including my blockchain engineering program ( www.insightconsensus.com )
01:40:36 <Isthmus> But now we bring our best researchers and developers in-house as “Residents” and I help connect them with exciting work in open-source ecosystems. Right now I’ve got teams working on Monero, Zcash, Polkadot, ICON, and have a half dozen more queued up. Ping me if you have any ideas :- )
01:40:54 <Isthmus> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/x2Tl9Dyu/
01:41:28 <Isthmus> Huh, snippet was unexpected
01:41:41 <Isthmus> @sgp_ Turns out that finding the BTC coinbases is easy (SELECT <whatever> FROM `bigquery-public-data.crypto_bitcoin.transactions` WHERE is_coinbase IS TRUE) but identifying when they’re spent isn’t quite as trivial.
01:41:51 <Isthmus> However, once the spend time feature is engineered, should be easy enough to generate a summary dataset by adding … COUNT(whatever) … GROUP_BY(spend_time)
01:42:01 * Isthmus upvotes DrHanner for responsible disclosure 
01:44:04 <DrHanner> i saw it and responded moneromoo
01:44:41 <DrHanner> hard to explain to a non coder moneromoo
01:46:20 <sarang> moneromooo is quite the coder
01:48:07 <moneromooo> Replied.
01:53:35 <DrHanner> i send a pseudo program
01:58:11 <moneromooo> Thanks.
02:02:40 <DrHanner> u are welcome
02:03:19 <DrHanner> else impressive code
03:01:58 <DrHanner> moneromooo ?
03:02:09 <moneromooo> Yes ?
03:02:44 <DrHanner> i googled to reverese black2 if you knew the key is trivial :P
03:03:27 <moneromooo> It is best not to give hints of the claimed exploit on a public channel :P
03:07:28 <moneromooo> Anyway, I'm off till tomorrow for now. I'll reply to any new message on H1 then. Good night.
03:07:34 <DrHanner> nite
09:27:59 <DrHanner> well well
09:29:16 <DrHanner> anyone from the monero security team here or a monero developer ?
16:48:04 <sarang> Since transaction volume was discussed elsewhere, here's a fun plot https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ROjiFNaH/tx.png
16:48:18 <sarang> "Clear" means transactions where amounts are in the clear
16:48:35 <sarang> "Semi" means transactions where inputs are in the clear, but outputs are hidden via commitments (transitioning to the CT model)
16:48:48 <sarang> "Opaque" means transactions where inputs and outputs are hidden via commitments (the CT model)
16:49:48 <sarang> The same data, with each bar normalized https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/pklSPykY/scaled.png
16:50:00 <UkoeHB_> neat graph; it's good to see tx volume at/above the level witnessed in the 2017/18 bubble
16:50:05 <sarang> Yeah
16:50:12 <fort3hlulz> super cool graph, thanks for sharing]
16:50:22 <sarang> I'm adding on the more recent months
16:50:27 <fort3hlulz> Good to see the vast majority of pre-RCT inputs migrated quickly
16:50:31 <sarang> (this is up to block 2M, chosen for simplicity)
16:50:44 <sarang> There are still a nonzero number of non-opaque transactions, due to transitioning old funds
16:50:54 <sarang> but it's clear that these are edge cases
16:52:03 <sarang> I'll post updated versions of these once my scripts finish their updates
16:52:28 <sarang> I'm working them into an easy-to-use script that anyone can run incrementally to produce consistent data of this kind
16:52:42 <sarang> I think having this data readily available is useful
16:53:08 <UkoeHB_> the low volume of 'semi' transactions implies most outputs are spent temporally close to where they were created, which broadly aligns with assumptions about spend patterns
16:53:46 <sarang> Yeah, even though we occasionally see apparent spikes that are clearly a mass transition of many old outputs
16:55:02 <sarang> If anything, this is a good reminder of how useful protocol enforcement can be
16:55:11 <sarang> The transition was extremely fast
16:56:06 <sarang> I'm also running a similar plot, but showing only deducible transactions over time, classified by type
16:56:25 <sarang> If anyone has better ideas for terms for these types, let me know; I just made these up for the purposes of this analysis
16:56:42 <sarang> I don't like saying "pre-CT" and "post-CT" since that's not an accurate description
17:02:10 <moneromooo> How about BC (before confidential) and AD (after denominations) ?
17:03:39 <moneromooo> Or CE (confidential enabled) and BCE (before confidential enabled) if we want to go more modern.
17:03:55 <sarang> :D
17:04:25 <sarang> Of course, you can still have non-opaque txs after the CE cutoff...
17:04:53 <sarang> I think it might be confusing to some people since the transition point didn't ban non-opaque transactions (or you couldn't spend old funds)
17:05:03 <sarang> This tripped up the authors of that preprint, for example
17:06:46 <sarang> Or: clear, transition, confidential?
17:07:21 <fluffypony> lol moneromooo
17:09:00 <UkoeHB_> "Or: clear, transition, confidential?" I like this, although "clear, CT-transition, and ringCT" might be better since we could in the future have "clear, CT-transition, ringCT, Arct-transition, Arcturus"
17:12:04 <sarang> We can always update the names when that happens
17:12:42 <sarang> Perhaps the biggest fault of RingCT is its uncool name
17:18:05 <fluffypony> it was before we were cool sarang
17:18:13 <sarang> How cool are we now?
17:18:31 <fluffypony> way cool
17:18:54 <sarang> FWIW my original internal name for Triptych was LRS-56 :(
17:19:11 <sarang> LRS = linkable ring signature, 56 = issue 56 on research-lab repo
17:19:38 <jwinterm> honestly triptych sounds like some disease you get from eating parasite infected pork or something
17:19:43 <jwinterm> I'd say ringct is cooler
17:19:45 <sarang> :(
17:19:50 <jwinterm> lol sry
17:19:58 <fluffypony> if we had to do it all over again we'd give it a cool name like Zetaorium
17:19:59 <fluffypony> or Infrablaze
17:19:59 <sarang> Arcturus is way cool
17:20:00 <fluffypony> I'm using this: http://storygen.weebly.com/future-tech-name.html lol
17:20:13 <sarang> ahahahha that's fantatic
17:20:24 <sarang> If I knew this existed, so many preprints would have different titles...
17:20:25 <jwinterm> arcturus does sound like a cool transformer or something
17:20:38 <sarang> It's from a Simpsons episode
17:21:01 <moneromooo> Oh, I thought it was from space objects :(
17:21:09 <sarang> That's where the Simpsons got it!
17:34:39 <niocbrrrrrr> we already have a draft from the auditors but the CCS proposal is not yet moved to funding required
17:35:05 <niocbrrrrrr> fluffypony luigi1111 luigi1111w  ^^^
17:47:35 <midipoet> so it's a space object in the Simpsons?
17:48:01 <sarang> Heh, it was the name of a project in "You Only Move Twice"
17:48:15 <sarang> niocbrrrrrr: the draft is only for the preprint review
17:48:20 <sarang> the code review will come later in the month
17:48:52 <sarang> No code changes are needed as a result of their preprint review
17:49:52 <netrik182[m]> jwinterm: LRS-56 also sounds like a disease --> COVID-19
17:50:25 <sarang> o_0
17:50:29 <sarang> Glad I changed it...
18:34:29 <sgp_> I don't quite like "clear" since it's not the same as a transparent Bitcoin transaction, and the name may imply this
18:34:50 <sgp_> maybe "denominated"
18:35:03 <sgp_> even though the denominations weren't enforced
18:35:31 <sgp_> or "no-CT"
18:41:57 <sarang> I'm open to changes
18:42:14 <sarang> And I get why "clear" is non-optimal
18:43:25 <sarang> At any rate, this is only relevant if/when making such plots and data more broadly available
18:46:05 <sarang> "Amounts visible" -> "Transition" -> "Amounts hidden" ?
18:46:25 <sarang> ^ sgp_
18:47:44 <moneromooo> "Amounts visible" might also lead to misunderstanding.
18:48:04 <sarang> Why?
18:48:09 <moneromooo> Output amounts were visible, not transfered amounts.
18:48:54 <sarang> You mean w.r.t. addresses?
18:51:14 <moneromooo> I'm not sure what you mean. I meant if Alice sends Bob 4.2 monero, you might see inpputs of 2 and 10, and outputs of (handwaving the fee) 0.2 0.8 4 8.
18:52:41 <sarang> Right; I don't mean to imply that destination-amount mappings are known
18:52:49 <sarang> Only that amounts represented in the transaction are known
18:53:01 <sarang> I don't know a great set of terms that keeps this subtlety in mind :/
18:53:14 <sarang> And again, only relevant if/when these terms are used more broadly outside of research/dev
18:54:14 <sgp_> type1, type2, type3 :p
18:54:27 <sarang> Heh, that's how they're represented in the data set...
18:55:10 <sgp_> pre-RCT, mixed, RCT?
18:56:19 <sarang> But those don't necessarily correspond with the protocol enforcement cutoffs
18:56:30 <sarang> that's the part that appears to have confused people (even researchers)
18:56:43 <sarang> Maybe this is overthinking things
18:56:46 <sarang> I dunno
19:00:21 <sarang> Maybe just footnote "all transactions benefit from one-time addressing and (depending on protocol version) sender ambiguity"
19:00:48 <xmrmatterbridge> <cankerwort> "enumerated" "transition" "unenumerated"
19:00:57 <sarang> ?
19:01:07 <sarang> What is "enumerated" intended to mean?
19:01:23 <sarang> (the fact that I'm asking means I don't really like them!)
19:02:00 <xmrmatterbridge> <cankerwort> I was trying to think of a single word that would convey "has a value number attached"
19:02:14 <xmrmatterbridge> <cankerwort> that was the closest I could get
19:03:01 <sarang> Maybe "denominated" is more clear?
19:03:06 <sarang> Even if not fixed denominations
19:03:23 <xmrmatterbridge> <cankerwort> Yes I like that better
19:03:58 <sarang> denominated -> transition -> opaque (hidden?)
19:05:38 <xmrmatterbridge> <cankerwort> +1
19:06:05 <xmrmatterbridge> <cankerwort> Or, post-CT: +?
19:07:49 <sarang> I don't think "post-CT" has any inherent meaning if you don't already get what "RingCT" means
19:08:00 <sarang> and if you do, you probably don't need the explainer terms
19:09:00 <sarang> and I don't like "post-CT" since I've seen the term used to imply "transactions where amounts are hidden" and "transactions appearing on chain after the CT protocol transition"... and these are not the same sets of transations
19:09:24 <sarang> s/transations/transactions
19:09:24 <monerobux> sarang meant to say: and I don't like "post-CT" since I've seen the term used to imply "transactions where amounts are hidden" and "transactions appearing on chain after the CT protocol transition"... and these are not the same sets of transactions
19:09:29 <sarang> good bot
19:44:16 <sgp_> I don't see them as protocol cutoffs as much as the "output types"
19:49:49 <sarang> As do I, but I think there's confusion between those interpretations
19:49:56 <sarang> and that leads to things like that preprint's conclusions
19:50:38 <sarang> Fortunately this distinction is almost entirely irrelevant for anyone using Monero (except those transitioning old outputs)
21:44:58 <Isthmus> maybe: plaintext [amounts] / transition/ encrypted ?
21:45:16 <Isthmus> And then in future would be necessary to annotate encrypted further: RingCT, ... whatever
21:45:22 <Isthmus> No way around that, really.
23:37:13 <sarang> Updated transaction data: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/xwfZxIAO/tx.png
23:37:26 <sarang> And scaled: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/jfBVKF6L/scaled.png
23:54:27 <Isthmus> Nice
23:54:37 <Isthmus> What do y'all think about EIP1559?
23:54:50 <Isthmus> Here's a casual and semi-philosophical article: https://medium.com/@TrustlessState/eip-1559-the-final-puzzle-piece-to-ethereums-monetary-policy-58802ab28a27
23:55:01 <Isthmus> And here's one that gets deep into its relation to transaction volume and dynamic block size: https://insights.deribit.com/market-research/analysis-of-eip-1559/