00:06:03 <UkoeHB_> could be custom exchanges or trading platforms
00:07:17 <selsta> 10%? unlikely but I could be wrong
00:09:22 <jwinterm> are they not still supported in rpc wallet?
00:13:34 <moneromooo> I don't think so. I might have forgot something though.
00:14:48 <sarang> As long as the uPID flag is still available for tx_extra, what changes for ePIDs moving out of extra?
00:20:00 <UkoeHB_> less 'half-baked'
00:25:40 <Isthmus> Sorry, that was vague. More precisely: Since height 1978433 just over 8% of transactions have contain a tx_extra item starting with `022100`
00:25:41 <Isthmus> For example, as this recent transaction with the plaintext payment ID "Averagejoe" https://xmrchain.net/search?value=02F4101C3CD1418B8C74E630A56F356DFF4BB34D4D0B81EFB143C67CD75F2F81
00:26:05 <Isthmus> Oh @sarang good point I was making an assumption about implementation. I rescind that for now.
00:27:30 <moneromooo> OK. I guess I was wrong then. People really do suck more than I expected. That was my condition for being OK with starting parsing extra and rejecting stuff :/
00:30:40 <moneromooo> I mean, you really have to try hard to fuck up here given support was removed. They had to write special code that gets it wrong...
00:31:13 <moneromooo> Unless I really did forget somehting in RPC :)
00:33:45 <moneromooo> Which I don't see looking at it now.
00:53:19 <sarang> Perhaps the next upgrade is the time to parse
00:55:19 <moneromooo> Maybe. Though if people actually wrote custom code to fuck it up, they'll easily find another way.
01:05:55 <sarang> Perhaps
01:21:50 <Isthmus> Sadly, the people writing custom code (devs) are probably not the same people (end users) whose data is ending up stored in plaintext, and whose transactions are heuristically traceable
01:22:25 <Isthmus> I'm frustrated with the former (devs who should know better) but trying to not project that onto the users who are probably clueless that their Monero transactions indistinguishable from others.
01:23:54 <Isthmus> (also, we really tend to assume the worst about these developers who aren't 1000% up to speed on protocol nuances and subtle statistical information leaks. Probably not all of them miss these updates out of malice or disdain)
01:24:36 <UkoeHB_> Yes I can't imagine more than 10 people on this planet have a deep understanding of tx
01:24:48 <UkoeHB_> Jesus I spent so many hours trying to figure it all out lol
01:29:01 <UkoeHB_> There is still stuff in wallet2.cpp I dont know much about (input selection mostly)
03:02:23 <UkoeHB_> is it better to say 'encrypted payment ID' or 'encoded payment ID'?
07:34:01 <tromp> \join #monero
13:19:26 <victorSN> Isthmus this could be interesting for your students: https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/f5d3k3/idea_pitch_gpuaccelerated_wallet_sync/ Not sure if anyone is working it at the moment
13:19:26 <monerobux> [REDDIT] Idea pitch: GPU-accelerated wallet sync (self.Monero) | 63 points (94.0%) | 18 comments | Posted by tevador | Created at 2020-02-17 - 18:26:17
14:58:24 <shvandrew> Sup guys, Andrey from Cointelegraph here. I was wondering if any of you heard of the Incognito project. https://incognito.org/c/tech/18
14:58:47 <shvandrew> Wanted to write an article about them, but just wanted to double check that it's not a scam or snake oil
14:58:53 <shvandrew> To me they seem rather legit
15:13:10 <selsta> shvandrew: did you look into their premine?
15:13:36 <selsta> also this is not the right channel for this, no one here is familiar with it
15:15:06 <selsta> or I would be surprised if someone here is familiar with it
15:20:44 <selsta> shvandrew: “For the current moment, the team controls 80%+ of the token supply, around 6-7 million tokens of the 8 million supply currently in circulation.”
15:20:58 <selsta> seems like a scam to me :)
15:22:09 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <kaylasu>: yikes
15:25:54 <shvandrew> selsta yes distribution is one of the factors that I'd like to investigate, though honestly at this point no-premine coins are hard to find. But thanks for the feedback
15:26:51 <moneromooo> Wait. If it's hard to find non scams, your solution is to redefine what is a scam ?
15:27:01 <UkoeHB_> Rip
15:27:01 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <kaylasu>: apparently xmr didnt have premine tho
15:27:09 <selsta> I would consider every project a scam until proven otherwise these days
15:27:14 <jwinterm> 80% premine is a scam no matter how you butter your bread
15:27:55 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <kaylasu>: make it 99.99%
15:27:59 <moneromooo> And I say that as someone who doesn't mind premines as long as small and honestly disclosed :)
15:29:38 <shvandrew> From what I've seen the premine is supposed to be a small part of the eventual supply, and it was disclosed. I'm afraid it's the industry itself that redefined scams with the whole ICO phenomenon, which is why I haven't yet focused on that. I'm mostly concerned about the actual technology for now and whether it works
15:30:29 <moneromooo> Scammers do not get to define what a scam is.
15:31:30 <moneromooo> And journalists ought not slip the dirt under the carpet.
15:32:16 <moneromooo> This is not a comment on incognito, I don't know about it. Just a comment about what you said.
15:33:31 <jwinterm> shvandrew, they appear to use the same privacy technology as monero, essentially, ring signatures with confidential txs
15:34:54 <sgp_> shvandrew: Incognito does not seem to solve any of the issues they claim to address, most importantly that users will still buy tainted coins
16:00:56 <moneromooo> Re-reading, I was a bit harsh, sorry, since "distribution is one of the factors that I'd like to investigate", so it's not swept under the carpet.
16:30:58 <selsta> shvandrew: Also regarding your latest article, fireice has never been a monero core member
16:31:51 <selsta> not sure how you came to that conclusion, he barely ever contributed to the project
16:34:22 <moneromooo> o_O
16:42:46 <shvandrew> I lurked on Reddit in 2017 and he was pretty active, kind of had this wrong impression form in my mind. But yes we'll correct that.
16:47:21 <selsta> see here: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3Afireice-uk+is%3Aclosed
16:47:46 <selsta> he contributed 3 PRs, he had good insight in the past but these days he is just a troll
16:51:37 <sarang> Please avoid personal attacks in this channel
16:52:43 <needbrrrrrrr90> Sarang, I believe the designation of fireice as a troll at this point is more fact than an attack
16:52:57 <needbrrrrrrr90> The guy quite literally pays people to spam /r/Monero (or did in the past)
16:53:18 <needbrrrrrrr90> At what point do you decide that good faith has been violated, and a person can actually be called out for what they are?
16:53:35 <sarang> I'd like this channel to remain about research, discussed professionally
16:54:00 <needbrrrrrrr90> While I agree, I think categorizing a factual statement about someone as an attack is a step too far.
16:54:03 <selsta> sorry for off topic
16:54:21 <needbrrrrrrr90> Just food for thought.
16:54:45 <needbrrrrrrr90> I do agree that it's off topic
16:54:49 <moneromooo> At this point, it's not attack, it's defence ^_^
16:54:58 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <seddd>: When has good faith been violated? When an attempted murder on a community member is committed
16:55:01 <sarang> I try to take "be excellent to each other" (from the channel topic) seriously
16:55:12 <sarang> But again, please take this kind of discussion elsewhere
16:56:05 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <seddd>: needbrrrrrrr90 go troll somewhere else.
16:56:24 <moneromooo> This was not trolling. It was an unwelcome statement of fact.
16:57:26 <sarang> Anyway, I ask that people keep the channel topics about research, and act professionally
16:57:29 <moneromooo> I find it very hard to let go of stuff I find less than honest. Sorry.
16:57:56 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <seddd>: What was less than honest?
16:58:41 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <seddd>: sarang: I apologize, I can only be in here and the general chat atm
17:02:45 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <kaylasu>: #general is the one from keybase (which cannot be removed nor renamed), maybe @surae would like to open the other channels #monero #monero-community [...] so could have them over here too
17:05:05 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <kaylasu>: (bridges currently ready for #monero, #monero-community, #monero-dev, #monero-markets, #monero-otc, #monero-pow, #monero-research-lab which currently only the latter is open on the keybase team "monerocommunity")
17:05:16 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <seddd>: Mb. I'm here for research, I really don't know shit about this fireice person, couldn't give two fucks. Hope everything works out. Here to work, not fuck about with community trolls who get off on sewing discord
17:05:49 <sarang> If you're going to stay in this channel, please stay civil
17:08:49 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <seddd>: Right, maybe that was too curt. I'm not here for anything but research. If your community doesn't want me here, I have no interest in offering help, and will leave now.
17:09:20 <sarang> I didn't mean to imply that you should leave seddd
17:09:48 <sarang> only that I would personally appreciate that people in this channel treat everyone civilly and with respect
17:09:54 <sarang> generally that's not a problem
17:15:54 <sarang> Anyway, here's an interesting research topic that I came across
17:16:17 <sarang> The Zcoin folks came up with a clever way to modify Groth one-of-many proofs in a hierarchical way
17:16:31 <sarang> To reduce prover (and in some cases, verifier) complexity at the cost of space
17:17:06 <sarang> It's a clever approach, and I wonder if/how it could apply to something like Triptych, which uses Groth proofs
17:32:20 <sarang> Looks like the authors haven't posted their work as an IACR preprint yet
17:45:25 <derpy_bridge> [keybase] <seddd>: Gives me time to re-read the Triptych paper in preparation :)
17:57:27 <sarang> The authors sent me an advance copy of the hierarchical paper as a courtesy, but I mistakenly thought they had also posted it publicly
17:58:03 <sarang> I'll be sure to post a link when it appears on IACR
17:59:46 <selsta> so this could result in Triptych 3? :D
18:00:50 <sarang> Heh
18:01:16 <sarang> It's not clear to me if there would be practical verifier improvements to offset the size costs
18:01:48 <sarang> The prover benefits might extend to a Triptych-style construction, but that doesn't seem like a good tradeoff
18:01:56 <sarang> since proving is a one-time operation
18:02:45 <sarang> Regardless, it's a really clever construction, and it's neat to see options for being able to alter the size/time tradeoffs for different applications
20:23:19 <seddd> btw am not here to ask for money from xmr community. I want nothing more than collaboration
20:23:35 <sarang> Research loves collaboration!
20:23:54 <seddd> <3
21:35:58 <seddd> so are both Triptych(1,2) and CLSAG being considered for signing protocols in Monero?
21:37:13 <UkoeHB_> CLSAG is short term, triptych (and others) are long term
21:38:05 <UkoeHB_> Triptych (etc) require a bunch of development effort, and not all design questions are necessarily solved
21:44:25 <seddd> ok, that makes sense. saw the line about further research on Triptych2. thanks UkoeHB_