02:08:50 <maybefbi> hyc: ok. people seem to have trouble writing randomx in golang or any other vm because of this one instruction.
02:09:25 <maybefbi> oops sorry wrong channel
19:12:27 <selsta> rbrunner: Do you know when you will have the help PR ready?
19:13:36 <rbrunner> Did not even start yet :) Did not give it any priority so far, waiting for opinions.
19:14:12 <rbrunner> But a minimal version would not be that complicated.
19:14:30 <rbrunner> You think about taking it in for the release?
19:14:31 <selsta> I wonder if we should revert the help change in v0.16 branch
19:14:40 <selsta> and then you can fix it in master
19:14:46 <selsta> without any time pressure
19:15:11 <rbrunner> You mean revert the whole "help_advanced" PR? Make it as if that never happened?
19:15:17 <selsta> yes
19:15:27 <selsta> only in release-v0.16 branch
19:16:01 <rbrunner> Well, sounds a little drastic. I mean, maybe "help_advanced" is not the best of ideas, but it exists now, and it must be that people use it ...
19:16:41 <rbrunner> And the short help text with "help" now is nice
19:17:46 <selsta> It wouldn’t be drastic because the help_advanced thing was never included in a release yet
19:18:13 <rbrunner> Huh? Are you sure?
19:18:17 <selsta> yes
19:18:24 <selsta> I would prefer to include it once all the issues are fully resolved
19:18:45 <rbrunner> Color me surprised
19:19:42 <rbrunner> Well, if you are going to revert it, you will also have to revert some later PR's that replace "help" with "help_advanced" in places where the original PR not yet did, as far as I remember
19:19:59 <rbrunner> I think monermooo did one of those
19:20:46 <selsta> yep
19:21:10 <hyc> if "help <command>" doesn't work as before, then all those related patches are a UX regression
19:21:29 <selsta> yes that’s why I want to revert it
19:21:31 <selsta> for the release
19:21:39 <hyc> great
19:24:09 <rbrunner> Alright, almost convinced. I think we could find a good way with short, concise command list display versus complete list without the drawbacks of a fully new command
19:25:11 <hyc> this all looks to me like "if it ain't broke don't fix it" - what is the point?
19:25:37 <hyc> who is having trouble finding the info they need in the current help output?
19:25:53 <hyc> versus - who will have trouble finding what they need with any suggested changes?
19:26:09 <hyc> I can tell you, more people will be in the latter group.
19:28:39 <selsta> Some new users will feel overwhelmed if help prints 100 commands, I think the idea of a simplified help is ok.
19:28:52 <hyc> new CLI users?
19:29:04 <selsta> Just has to be implemented good without breaking existing commands.
19:29:05 <hyc> 100 commands is quie an exaggeration
19:30:10 <selsta> nope, help prints 120 lines
19:30:16 <selsta> in monero-wallet-cli
19:31:36 <hyc> hmmm
19:31:49 <hyc> then someone should break things up into classes
19:31:55 <hyc> like gdb help does
19:32:05 <selsta> https://paste.debian.net/hidden/070e5270/
19:32:40 <selsta> maybe the `welcome` command can list the most used commands
19:33:45 <hyc> https://paste.debian.net/1147189/
19:34:12 <selsta> looks also reasonable
19:41:28 <ErCiccione[m]> In any case `help all` would be way better than `help_advanced`
22:59:33 <shillo> based brian https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1261779484203720706
23:02:09 <shillo> whoops sorry