02:05:00 <Mumuks[m]> <charolastra "ups, should have been this: http"> What is this exactly? The webpage is short on details
02:12:18 <xmrscott[m]> Cwtch is an extension of the metadata resistant protocol Ricochet to support asynchronous, multi-peer group communications through the use of discardable, untrusted, anonymous infrastructure.
02:12:35 <xmrscott[m]> https://openprivacy.ca/work/cwtch/
02:13:51 <xmrscott[m]> Cwtch is based on Ricochet which uses Tor onion services to provide peer-to-peer instant messaging without third parties. There is no one in a position to take data without consent because the only data shared is between you and the person you are talking with. Everything is as private as can be and metadata is kept as small as technically possible.
02:13:51 <xmrscott[m]> We’ve been working on a way to extend this concept to groups (which will be version 1 of Cwtch), and then eventually to higher level applications. The idea being that the data is controlled by you, and the only time you give it away is either directly to another person you trust or via privacy-preserving structures that only you and other people you trust have access to.
02:14:00 <xmrscott[m]> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2018/04/13/interview-sarah-jamie-lewis-executive-director-of-the-open-privacy-research-society/
02:18:04 <Mumuks[m]> So basically they use TOR to do a matrix like system? Sounds interesting
02:21:53 <xmrscott[m]> This is the original implementation to get a better idea: https://github.com/ricochet-im/ricochet/blob/master/doc/protocol.md
02:23:20 <xmrscott[m]> Of highlighting note: Each Ricochet instance publishes a hidden service, which serves as its identity and accepts connections from contacts. When it first comes online, it attempts to connect to the addresses of known contacts. If a connection is made, it is held open; a contact is considered online when there is an open connection.
02:23:41 <xmrscott[m]> Ricochet does not use central servers; connections are made to services published directly by your contacts with no intermediary.
02:28:02 <xmrscott[m]> Basically Briar
02:28:44 <xmrscott[m]> * Basically Briar, but for desktops too
02:32:25 <Mumuks[m]> Ah, so completely p20
02:32:31 <Mumuks[m]> * Ah, so completely p2p
02:36:10 <xmrscott[m]> Yes, so no semi-centralization ala federation
02:36:20 <xmrscott[m]>  * Yes, so no semi-centralization unlike federation
02:37:30 <xmrscott[m]> (Or centralized like Signal)
03:38:10 <kinghat[m]> https://www.wired.com/story/signal-mobilecoin-payments-messaging-cryptocurrency/
09:10:51 <msvb-mob> Hello folks, please join #monero-events if you're interested in participating or advising the Monero Village at Defcon 29.
13:59:37 <Inge-> soo... with Signal going to the dustbin, what is a good platform to get friends and family on to? Threema? Wire? Matrix? Other?
14:02:42 <mechanic41turk[m> threema, or telegram. You can also try the matrix/element, but the UI is really clunky for the boomers.
14:14:04 <Mumuks[m]> <mechanic41turk[m "threema, or telegram. You can al"> What are the issues with Android or iOS element compared to those other two?
14:14:27 <mechanic41turk[m> unpolished
14:14:32 <mechanic41turk[m> my personal opinion
14:14:51 <sethsimmons> Yeah I don't think they're ready for non-tech users yet IMO
14:14:56 <sethsimmons> SIgnal is approachable and easy
14:14:59 <sethsimmons> Telegram is similar
14:14:59 <Mumuks[m]> <mechanic41turk[m "my personal opinion"> It is fine, I'm curious since I do not use the other two
14:15:17 <sethsimmons> Wonder if other clients would work better for that, but haven't tested others
14:33:29 <sethsimmons> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/mmrchk/im_happy_to_announce_haveno_the_monero_based_dex/
14:33:29 <monerobux> [REDDIT] I'm happy to announce Haveno: The Monero based DEX for trading XMR for fiat and cryptocurrencies! (PoC) (self.Monero) | 60 points (99.0%) | 21 comments | Posted by ErCiccione | Created at 2021-04-08 - 13:05:10
14:34:12 <johnfoss68[m]> Seth top job with that signal/mobile coin thread
14:34:19 <sethsimmons> Thanks dude
14:34:27 <sethsimmons> Was surprised to learn all of that the more I dug
14:34:31 <johnfoss68[m]> 👍
14:34:35 <sethsimmons>  And that's only scratching the surface...
14:35:00 <johnfoss68[m]> Yeah looks like it gained lots of traction too
14:35:41 <johnfoss68[m]> Not just the same echo chamber retweets either but legitimate public figures chiming in
14:37:34 <sethsimmons> Yeah absolutely
14:37:38 <sethsimmons> Was not expecting that
15:47:18 <ratthing69[m]> <johnfoss68[m] "Not just the same echo chamber r"> who's the most public of figures that's chimed in
15:47:24 <ratthing69[m]> i wanna see :D
15:47:33 <ratthing69[m]>  * i wanna see 👀
15:48:50 <sethsimmons> https://twitter.com/coinbureau/status/1379942292413423616?s=21
15:49:04 <sethsimmons> https://twitter.com/jmorse_/status/1379916554846961665?s=21
15:49:21 <sethsimmons> https://twitter.com/techloreistaken/status/1379801294412554241?s=21
15:49:53 <sethsimmons> Among others
15:50:00 <sethsimmons> Hal from Nym Project
15:50:11 <sethsimmons> Can't remember who else off the top of my head
15:50:26 <sethsimmons> But a lot of people outside of the normal Monero community that is most of my followers.
15:51:01 <ratthing69[m]> Very very cool.
15:51:43 <sethsimmons> Adam Back as well
15:51:49 <ratthing69[m]> Definitely seeing a massive amount of 'Why didn't you use {{established-existing-product}}' responses in the signal twitter discussions
15:52:09 <ratthing69[m]> way more than i've seen in the past
15:52:24 <ratthing69[m]>  * Definitely seeing a massive amount of 'Why didn't you use {{established-existing-not-shitcoin-product}}' responses in the signal twitter discussions
15:52:54 <sethsimmons> Yes, think they managed to piss off both the tech community and the cryptocurrency space lol
15:53:10 <ratthing69[m]> <sethsimmons "Adam Back as well"> his responses were very interesting.
15:53:29 <ratthing69[m]> moxie definitely turned his phone off and slept in this am
15:53:29 <sethsimmons> Haven't heard anyone except MobileCoin and their VCs/exchange partners comment positively.
15:54:18 <ratthing69[m]> Well, and Mr. Coinbase
15:54:45 <ratthing69[m]> Haven't seen Brian so excited about a project 😆
15:54:56 <sethsimmons> My two tweets/threads about MobileCoin have 140k impressions, next highest this month is Monero related at 13k lol
15:55:05 <sethsimmons> Not sure what that says
15:55:29 <sech1> MobileCoin = hype, Monero = no hype
15:55:31 <ratthing69[m]> signal has a massive network
15:55:42 <sethsimmons> <sech1 "MobileCoin = hype, Monero = no h"> so true
15:55:48 <sethsimmons> Thankfully pretty bad hype so far for the MOB
15:56:08 <sethsimmons> <ratthing69[m] "signal has a massive network"> Yeah, much larger cross-section of users interested in Signal/MOB off the bat
15:56:08 <sech1> Cryptocurrency that just works is so boring...
15:56:28 <ratthing69[m]> exactly
18:56:07 <geonic> https://twitter.com/TheBlueMatt/status/1380202585915801605?s=20
18:56:16 <geonic> Matt Corrallo put it succinctly
19:23:58 <xmrscott[m]> Yes, drama could have likely been easily avoided if it was more RFC-like rather than sudden announcement
21:54:58 <geonic> it was in the works for a few years.. no one paying attention was surprised by it
22:46:16 <sethsimmons> https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/222
22:46:45 <sethsimmons> Triptych research and optimizations - a new CCS proposal for Sarang, an MRL researcher, is open for comment/feedback!
22:51:18 <geonic> Is the CEO of Cypher Stack LLC still on payroll from the general fund? just wondering. cc: rehrar
22:55:55 <rehrar> geonic: yes. Separate thing.
22:56:25 <rehrar> I still do full time work for the core team. Not through Cypher Stack.
23:04:18 <geonic> How is being employed by the Core team and also employing a Core team member not seen as a conflict of interest? Or at least a quid pro quo arrangement?
23:05:34 <rehrar> geonic: sarang is not a core team member
23:05:48 <geonic> Pigeons is. It’s mentioned in your proposal.
23:05:54 <rehrar> pigeons is not a core team member
23:06:05 <geonic> whoops sorry :)
23:06:34 <rehrar> The current core team consists of binaryFate fluffypony luigi1111 articmine othe noodledoodle and smooth
23:07:35 <fluffypony> geonic: it's good to be skeptical
23:07:45 <rehrar> agree
23:07:50 <rehrar> I'm happy to answer any more questions you may have.
23:07:52 <fluffypony> no need to apologise for it
23:08:35 <geonic> I had the wrong impression then. Different question. How is being employed by the Core team, who are the final arbiters for CCS approvals, and mediating CCS proposals on behalf of a for-profit company not a conflict of interest?
23:09:23 <rehrar> I think anyone who starts a business in the Monero sector is very VERY aware of how the whole blockstream thing went down with the public. i.e. it can seem like scooping up talent to make profit. In my particular case, the people I "scooped up" were already out or on their way out, and I'd rather keep them around.
23:10:01 <rehrar> geonic: do you think something like this would be best handled through external means, such as non-profits (like MAGIC) or Kraken's grant program?
23:10:23 <rehrar> If so, this is a valid viewpoint, and I ask you to please comment it on the proposal itself for discussion.
23:10:23 <geonic> The analogy I see here is a government employee at the DMV starting his own company to expedite DMV applications.
23:10:45 <geonic> While continuing to work at the DMV. You see my point?
23:11:23 <rehrar> Sure. So maybe if this proposal is in the least bit contentious, it'd be best not to move so as to stay on the safe side of that fine line.
23:11:49 <rehrar> Perhaps only move if overwhelming support.
23:12:10 <rehrar> But if even a small handful of people have an issue with the structure or me personally or whatever, we can find alternative ways to fund.
23:12:13 <rehrar> Just a thought.
23:12:21 <geonic> That’s your call. Obviously Sarang deserves funding so I don’t think this should be the deciding factor on whether he’s funded or not.
23:13:30 <rehrar> the issue is sarang would not have made this proposal unless he was with Cypher Stack. His reasonings for leaving the CCS funding way of living were stated clearly.
23:14:09 <rehrar> risk, lack of benefits, constant fundraising, being your own manager, and more.
23:14:44 <rehrar> Under me, he gets salary (regardless of ongoing contracts), reduced risk, benefits, etc. etc. Under Cypher Stack he is willing to continue with Monero research.
23:14:55 <rehrar> And I'll let him speak for himself on this issue further if he desires.
23:15:30 <rehrar> I'm hoping this doesn't come off as a hostage situation (i.e. you accept me or you don't get him), but I really did want to see him continue this research and decided to take personal risk to my company to make it happen. :)
23:15:52 <rehrar> brb will read responses in half an hour or so
23:15:57 <rehrar> .bbl
23:15:57 <monerobux> As a matter of fact it sounds like you have an actually understood or read all of the details yet so I will give you some more timei, bbl
23:19:17 <geonic> fluffypony what’s your take here? Do you see rehrar’s employment under Core present a conflict with his role as a for-profit mediator of CCS proposals?
23:20:01 <fluffypony> rehrar is the mediator of the CCS?
23:20:11 <geonic> his firm is, yeah
23:20:20 <fluffypony> huh?
23:26:52 <rehrar> back
23:27:10 <rehrar> I have CCS merge privs, but I never use them. The only time I have used them is when luigi tells me to merge something because he's not available.
23:27:16 <rehrar> And that has happened like, never.
23:28:06 <rehrar> The only other times I've used them is to fix the formatting of an already accepted CCS proposal, or more them from funding-required to work-in-progress (as this is objective based on completed funding, not subjective like whether or not to merge) and similarly from WiP to completed proposals (also objective based off of finished milestones and payouts)
23:29:10 <rehrar> I also don't know how I'm a for-profit mediator of the CCS. I get zero commission from the CCS proposals.
23:29:27 <rehrar> geonic: would you mind clarifying?
23:34:53 <geonic> Sorry, back.
23:35:05 <geonic> fluffypony: that’s what it says in the proposal
23:35:25 <geonic> rehrar: Quoting from your proposal, "Cypher Stack is a for-profit LLC owned by Diego "rehrar" Salazar."
23:35:53 <rehrar> this is true.
23:35:56 <fluffypony> yes but I'm not sure what that has to do with his company mediating CCS proposals
23:36:00 <fluffypony> literally makes no sense
23:39:22 <geonic> The way I’m reading the proposal, the funds would go to the for-profit company, which will then pay sarang, who is acting as its employee.
23:40:15 <Lovera[m]> Sarang will get 100% of CCS proposal?
23:41:18 <rehrar> geonic: this is correct. The proposal is by Cypher Stack, not sarang.
23:42:13 <rehrar> Lovera[m]: No. See above.
23:42:55 <geonic> What is your margin for administering the CCS on his behalf?
23:43:11 <Lovera[m]> <rehrar "Lovera: No. See above."> Where is this info in the proposal? How much money to Sarang and how is to company?
23:46:10 <sarang> I obviously support the proposal, FWIW
23:46:36 <sarang> I would like to continue research but avoid a situation likely to lead to burnout
23:47:06 <geonic> And we obviously support you :). This is just a conflict of interest discussion regarding rehrar’s role.
23:47:26 <Lovera[m]> sarang: I think we all support you :)
23:50:12 <geonic> to clarify my point: I’d have no problem with this arrangement if the LLC was run by someone without such proximity to Core
23:52:02 * Lovera[m]  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/uGRXTaxRuznziLcRGSafCBYr/message.txt >
23:52:39 <rehrar> Lovera[m]: I am not a member of the Monero core team. I work for the core team.
23:53:33 <rehrar> And the only way sarang wishes to work on Triptych is with the stability that a traditional company brings. Whether or not it's mine is up to him.
23:53:55 <rehrar> That said, I completely understand if the perceived COI is too great for some to support the proposal.
23:54:29 <rehrar> And I would ask they post their thoughts on the reddit or merge request for discussion, as the percentage of people in the community that are on IRC are few, even with bridges.
23:54:41 <geonic> You see how this can be perceived as influence peddling, right?
23:54:49 <rehrar> discussion can continue here obviously of course. I'm just trying to make sure your concerns go beyond IRC.
23:54:53 <rehrar> geonic: absolutely.
23:55:31 <rehrar> geonic: it's not, but I can see how it can be seen as that
23:55:48 <geonic> cool
23:57:40 <geonic> Maybe Core might want to decide where they stand on this before it becomes a Reddit discussion. It doesn’t seem like they were briefed about the arrangement.