00:04:18 From: matt hill (start9) Please convey this message to the Haven/Monero communities: we love that you are taking the initiative to add new services to the Embassy platform. But as I have expressed to David Bandtock and others in the community, Start9 will not make these services available until after SSD support is added. We do not (cannot) operate on exact timelines. You can count in weeks and on 2 hands, that's 00:04:18 as good an estimate as I can give. 01:54:50 Embassy nodes don't work with SSD? Pretty weird 07:50:58 seems bitpay won't even work out KYC anymore for payments, citing some european regulation that iirc they don't bother to name. any idea what it might be? 08:01:27 kayront: what do you meant Bitpay won't even work out KYC for payments? 08:01:56 it asks you to sign up now before paying 08:02:05 and there's a note saying they need moar info because of some eu reg 08:02:18 i used a temp mail to try it out and "there was an unexpected error" so I didn't get to see the entire flow 08:02:29 but found some vaguely recent posts of people saying it's a passport pic they want 08:02:29 lol. 08:03:05 Friendly reminder of btcpaysever existance. 08:03:27 you don't have to tell me rottenwheel :D 08:03:39 Alright then. 14:40:05 kayront: does that include payments under $3k or so? 16:34:11 kayront: the 5th Anti Money Laundering Directive states that KYC most be conducted for any payment over €150. 16:34:36 It's up to member states to enforce this, under their own national frameworks. 16:34:48 *must be conducted 16:36:58 Has anyone ever used btcpayserver for Monero? 16:44:58 I know of several people who use it currently 16:45:01 CoinCards is one of them 16:47:45 Andreas Antonopolous another 16:47:54 Yup 16:48:10 it seems xmr brigading on twitter has picked up in later months 16:49:23 Brigading or engagement? 16:49:34 Brigading implies coordination, which I'm not aware of any. 16:50:02 Fair. I retract brigading. 16:50:25 Engagement is up, quality is variable. But there seems to definitely be increasing levels of engagement 16:50:33 There has definitely been a large increase on Monero support/engagement over the past 6mo for sure. 16:50:46 also a 2x of cake wallet downloads 16:50:47 Definitely some reply spam I don't like and discourage, but also lots of great new content and contributions 16:50:57 yeah a bit of both 16:51:01 Lots and lots of great adoption/usage increase metrics 16:52:05 while this is not the place to discuss price, there are very interesting similarities in the price charts of BTC and ETH and XMR since pre-2017 pump and up until December of last year 16:54:56 Would be great to see price mirror usage increases for sure 🙂 Quite the disparity, for now. 16:56:25 Inge-: XMR lags ETH which lags BTC 16:56:27 That's it basically 16:56:57 yeah it looks very much like that. And the increasing engagement is encouraging. Atomic swaps and broader adoption would be amazing 17:07:36 kayront: the 5th Anti Money Laundering Directive states that KYC most be conducted for any payment over €150. 17:07:38 what the f.... 17:07:46 that's absurd! 17:11:49 isn't that mostly related to e.g. pre-paid cards? 17:16:50 i think so, that can't be it 17:19:46 "After 4AMLD cut the monthly transaction limit on anonymous prepaid cards to €250 (a measure to combat terrorist financing), 5AMLD sets an even lower limit of €150: this limit also applies to the amount that can be stored or topped-up on the cards. The 5AMLD limit means that firms will be required to carry out identity checks on customers using prepaid cards funded with more than €150. 17:19:52 Similarly, anonymous remote or online transaction limits are reduced to €50." 17:20:24 ooof. the last sentence sounds like the death knell for xmr.to 17:29:10 wow, that's incredible 17:29:53 (as in ridiculous) 17:40:01 Yes, the last sentence is what I was referring to. It was added through a very opaque process, about 12 months ago, afaiu 17:40:34 I thought it was €150 though, if I am honest 17:41:49 that's bullshit, so if enforced anything we want to pay xmr with online requires doxxing, that's insane 17:49:00 midipoet: any idea who was the sneaky bastard(a) who added that ? 17:49:58 Oy the language. 18:07:22 I wonder at what point they make the net so tight the system breaks 18:09:23 what i find amazing is how little by little by little some more freedom is lost, and suddenly you find yourself in a situation where you can't buy a 51€ item without the government knowing 18:09:55 one imagines this will later be used as justification for lowering physical cash amounts as well, after all it's been working online so well for so many years 18:10:49 there are already pretty clear rules from this past decade making purchases over like .. €2000-3000 illegal if cash 18:10:57 and each step of they way, you're exaggerating, you're being paranoid, if you have nothing to worry you have nothing to worry about, it's to catch criminals, etc 18:11:52 yes Inge-, that's my point - since we have those limits already, why make it so drastically lower online? i find 3000 ridiculous already to be honest, especially since it's not inflation adjusted (afaik).. but 50€ is unworkable, simply 18:12:53 How about everyone shifts to trading directly in XMR? 18:13:19 if you run a *business* you will not for long ... 18:13:44 trading is great sech1, but with this rule you can't even buy 100€ worth of electronics without the merchant doing KYC on you 18:13:55 as an individual, I can still buy your rtx3090 for €100 000 with no oroblem 18:13:58 unless the rule applies only to payment processors? I am not sure midipoet Inge- 18:14:20 and if it does, I figure if things go the btcpayserver-everywhere route, soon enough that won't be true anymore 18:14:30 kayront I'll find a bum on street and he'll buy rtx 3090 for me 18:14:38 for a bottle of vodka 18:16:05 i don't think we're currently appreciating how much of a dampener this silly rule will be for monero adoption - if every merchant has to KYC you for anything above 50€, it's not gonna happen 18:16:50 soo... I would not be able to buy a Ledger without full KYC 18:16:58 fub times 18:17:03 fun* 18:18:05 fud times 18:18:08 i'm hoping this would only apply to payment processors, but I think it's clear, as I wrote above, that if that's the case now, it won't stay that way for long if merchants start taking sats and piconeros into their own hands 18:18:14 fubar times* 18:24:09 continuing to develop privacy/anon tech is absolutely essential, but I'm beginning to get the feeling that unless local rules are changed by local pressure in multiple offending countries at the same time, it's only gonna get worse 18:31:03 To combat the risks related to the anonymity, national Financial Intelligence Units (FIUs) should be able to obtain information allowing them to associate virtual currency addresses to the identity of the owner of virtual currency. In addition, the possibility to allow users to self-declare to designated authorities on a voluntary basis should be further assessed. 18:32:28 that was a given the moment there were public addresses and balances 18:32:42 monero fixes this, of course 18:34:17 I want some authority to ask me for my virtual currency addresses. Then just send them a newly generated subaddress 18:34:32 Would be pretty funny 18:35:38 My virtual currency address is 127.0.0.1 18:36:34 or rather 127.0.0.1:18081