-
tokineko[m]
I think it would be cool for monero to adopt shielded transaction pool from ZCash. Shielded transaction pool does not have transaction graph, but ring signatures do. Transaction graph can be analyzed eventually by neural net AIs.
-
tokineko[m]
Shielded transaction pool will not need trusted setup soon.
-
sarang
-
tokineko[m]
It seems matrix is better than monero subreddit where people just downvote any mention of other coins.... and refuse to talk.
-
tokineko[m]
By the way, I criticize every coin, not just monero...
-
sarang
OK, I'm a little bored... what would it mean to adopt the "shielded pool from Zcash"?
-
sarang
The proving system? The transaction protocol? The actual Merkle tree?
-
tokineko[m]
I don't know details. But, you can definitely look into proving system and transaction protocol.
-
sarang
Well, the current Zcash transaction protocol permits avoiding the shielded pools altogether. Or transitioning into or out of or within them. And these situations do not necessarily imply having no transaction graph
-
sarang
As far as I know, none of that is planned to change
-
tokineko[m]
The simple fact that I know is that shielded transaction pool doesn't have any transaction graph that can be analyzed.
-
tokineko[m]
It seems that removing transaction graph scales better than increasing ring size.
-
sarang
Shielded transactions are not free of metadata
-
tokineko[m]
Pirate Chain allows only shielded transactions... Pirate Chain is a sibling of ZCash.
-
tokineko[m]
Assuming there is no unshielded transaction, you definitely want to at least figure out what it is about...
-
sarang
What what is about
-
sethsimmons
Do you think no one here understands or follows Zcash dev?
-
sethsimmons
We obviously keep a close eye on developments to see what the best path forward for Monero is.
-
sethsimmons
We disagree (generally) with many of their protocol design choices but that doesn't mean we ignore them or the things they research or develop.
-
sethsimmons
Sadly, they've chosen to expose users to harm by not enforcing shielded transactions and have no plans to change that, but there are definitely pros and cons to their approach to privacy.
-
tokineko[m]
How do you compare ring signature with Pirate Chain's shielded transaction pool? I'm curious of what you think.
-
sethsimmons
Right now it requires a trusted setup and has heavy generation and verification costs IIRC, so its not an option.
-
sethsimmons
Maybe Halo 2+ will be interesting to explore more in depth, but not a good solution for Monero at-present.
-
sethsimmons
-
sarang
A proving system is not a transaction protocol
-
sarang
I continue to say this
-
sethsimmons
That's a good pointer to the mindset of Monero.
-
sarang
Halo 2 is not a transaction protocol
-
sarang
Nor is Halo
-
sarang
etc.
-
tokineko[m]
I loved playing halo 2 in the past.
-
sarang
As have many
-
sethsimmons
Ah yes I always conflate the two π
-
sarang
Triptych and Arcturus and Lelantus all use zk proving systems with limited anonymity sets
-
tokineko[m]
With triptych and arcturus, how large will the ring size be?
-
sarang
Triptych and Arcturus and Lelantus all permit whatever size you want (it actually has a particular exponent form, but whatever)
-
sarang
But this value affects proving and verifying time, and transaction size (but this is logarithmically scaled)
-
tokineko[m]
By the way, ZCash and Firo were started by Johns Hopkins university and Israel. Johns Hopkins university and Israel have very strong connection to central banks. Pirate Chain devs said ZCash cannot eliminate transparent tranasctions because they were prevented from doing so by someone above them. Pirate Chain is what ZCash and Firo aspire to be but cannot because they were bought by central banking system and
-
tokineko[m]
will need to integrate with central banking system.
-
sarang
This sounds like a discussion specifically about Pirate Chain. Not sure that's on topic for this channel
-
sarang
If you want to discuss technical details about Triptych or Arcturus or Lelantus, that could be more on topic here, I dunno
-
tokineko[m]
What will the actual ring size be?
-
sarang
I don't recall a decision being made among Monero communities to specifically adopt a new transaction protocol at this point
-
tokineko[m]
As far as I know, verification time is linear. If monero migrates to arcturus or triptych, will the ring size be somewhere near 256,000?
-
sethsimmons
<tokineko[m] "What will the actual ring size b"> Likely 64-128, but not set yet.
-
sethsimmons
<tokineko[m] "As far as I know, verification t"> As Sarang said earlier its log, not Lin scaling.
-
sarang
I'll bite. Why 256000
-
sarang
Verification time scales as O(n/lg(n))
-
tokineko[m]
I arbitrarily chose a random large number.
-
sarang
Proof size scales as O(lg(n))
-
sarang
However
-
tokineko[m]
It could be 8000 too.
-
sarang
Verification can benefit from batching in ways that are a bit subtle
-
sarang
This batching can apply similarly across Lelantus, Arcturus, and Triptych
-
sarang
(they all use the same proving system structure underneath)
-
tokineko[m]
I suspect anything above 8000 would be too computationally expensive.
-
sarang
Depends on batching
-
tokineko[m]
I also suspect there could be chain analysis methods that may see right through rings of any size, given analyzable spending patterns.
-
tokineko[m]
Chain analysis companies already see through coin join.
-
sarang
CoinJoin-type operations are interactive
-
sarang
Monero-type operations are non-interactive
-
tokineko[m]
By the way, what kind of metadata does shielded transaction pool leak?
-
sarang
Input count, output count, block height, possible network information (depending on network structure), etc.
-
sarang
No transaction in any protocol I've seen is a uniform blob of nothing
-
sarang
If used in a pool-transition protocol, could leak a heck of a lot more, like amount and transparent addresses (and associated graph)
-
sarang
Reducing metadata is important, but eliminating it altogether is not possible
-
sarang
Fee is another piece of metadata, I suppose
-
tokineko[m]
Monero surely has a lot of good researchers...
-
tokineko[m]
By the way, do you discuss Tari, too?
-
sethsimmons
You're talking to one of the best across the entire ecosystem, not just Monero π
-
sarang
Me personally? Not really
-
sarang
I don't follow Tari development
-
sethsimmons
(And its not me lol)
-
sarang
I would not claim to be "one of the best"
-
sethsimmons
I'll claim it for you
-
tokineko[m]
Tari seems to be the smart contract layer on top of monero..?
-
sarang
It is not
-
sethsimmons
No
-
sethsimmons
<tokineko[m] "Tari seems to be the smart contr"> Its only direct link is merge mining.
-
sarang
The Monero protocol does not support such things
-
tokineko[m]
sarang: If you know enough to propose triptych, you are a good researcher.
-
sethsimmons
Tari.com and their TG are good resources if you want to learn more, tokineko
-
tokineko[m]
Tari claims to be private, and I don't understand how the hell they stay private with different kinds of tokens on blockchain. Tokens are not uniform.
-
sethsimmons
Privacy is a scale, it will not be as private as Monero.
-
sethsimmons
They aim for "good enough" privacy using MimbleWimble.
-
sarang
Last I heard, Tari was investigating Mimblewimble-type approaches
-
sethsimmons
But this channel isn't the best place for that chat.
-
sethsimmons
#monero:matrix.org maybe, or their Telegram
-
sarang
Triptych isn't anything revolutionary. It uses the same base proving system that Lelantus and Arcturus use, which none of those constructions or their authors invented
-
sarang
That proving system was invented by Groth and Kohlweiss, and updated by Bootle (et al?)
-
ComplyLast
tokineko[m], there's a tari channel somewhere
-
ComplyLast
#tari on freenode
-
tokineko[m]
It may not be anything new, but monero surely has enough brain power to adapt.
-
sarang
I didn't say it wasn't new :D
-
tokineko[m]
And, it's not bought by central banking system. Not yet, at least.
-
tokineko[m]
Notify me when you are bought by central bankers.
-
sarang
Working for a bank does not sound that interesting to me...
-
tokineko[m]
What other privacy measures do you plan other than ring signature, ringCT, and one-time public address?
-
sarang
Me personally?
-
tokineko[m]
you and others.
-
sarang
I can't speak for others
-
sarang
By "ring signature" do you mean "prover/signer-specific anonymity set"?
-
tokineko[m]
anonymity set for each transaction.
-
sarang
And by "ringCT" do you mean "the use of Pedersen commitments within a signer-ambiguous transaction protocol"?
-
tokineko[m]
I mean hiding transaction amount. I only watched tech introduction videos. I don't know details.
-
tokineko[m]
One-time public address hides receiver. RingCT hides amount. Ring signature hides senders inside a ring.
-
sarang
FWIW those terms are often poorly- and non-technically defined
-
sarang
"ring signature" can mean many things in the context of a formal security model, I assure you
-
tokineko[m]
I intuit that increasing anonymity set has limits as long as it has transaction graph.
-
sarang
Every protocol has a transaction graph of some kind
-
sarang
It can be made "maximally complex"
-
sarang
for some definition of that phrase
-
tokineko[m]
And, monero devs has no plan yet to utilize triptych or arcturus?
-
tokineko[m]
* And, monero devs have no plan yet to utilize triptych or arcturus?
-
ComplyLast
a discussion we are having on #monero where you are not sarang
-
sarang
Implementations of Triptych or Arcturus have unanswered questions as of yet
-
sarang
As to anonymity set selection, multisignature algorithms, etc.
-
sarang
It is surprisingly subtle
-
ComplyLast
roughly: on avg is it easier to check historically if a inflation bug was exploited on monero than zcash?
-
ComplyLast
(assuming you know what was exploited to begin with)
-
sarang
There are situations where neither is detectable
-
sarang
and situations where either, or both, is/are detectable
-
sarang
It's not a simple yes/no/this/that
-
ComplyLast
thanks
-
sarang
If the question is "can we guarantee no exploit happened in all cases with either asset" the answer is a definitive "no"
-
ComplyLast
yes, that I was aware
-
sarang
Is this a question about the transparent migration approach that Zcash has used?
-
ComplyLast
oh
-
ComplyLast
they did do that?
-
ComplyLast
I thought they only floated the idea
-
sarang
Between the Sprout and Sapling pools, yes
-
ComplyLast
Yes, its related to that
-
sarang
To be clear, that approach _cannot_ detect inflation within a pool
-
ComplyLast
was it a z to t to new z pool migration?
-
sarang
Yes. Sprout -> Sapling (via a particular tx construction) or Sprout -> Tcash -> Sapling (via separate txns)
-
ComplyLast
ok
-
ComplyLast
so they just deprecated the pool
-
sarang
Kinda sorta not really
-
sarang
A recent change says that no new value may enter the Sprout pool
-
sarang
But Sprout -> Sprout txns are still allowed
-
ComplyLast
inflation could have still happened on sprout
-
ComplyLast
and those coins could have not been moved yet
-
sarang
If inflation happened within that pool, it cannot be detected until/unless "too much" Tcash is seen exiting
-
ComplyLast
because it would be obvious once that would happen?
-
sarang
Should that happen, ECC has said they intend to freeze any additional value
-
sethsimmons
<ComplyLast "inflation could have still happe"> Yup, they just might have been the first out and beaten other users or lost funds π
-
ComplyLast
so yes we were kinda discussing that
-
sethsimmons
Turnstiles just mean first out wins if there is inflation
-
ComplyLast
and how with the inflation bug on Monero luigi1111 and others
-
ComplyLast
where able to check historically
-
sethsimmons
And if you're the one who broke something and inflated supply you would have the advantage getting out in time.
-
ComplyLast
and such thing wasn't possible on sprout
-
sarang
The Monero key image flaw was detectable, and we can 100% say it was not exploited
-
ComplyLast
I guess it obviously depends a lot which bug was exploited to begin with
-
sethsimmons
<ComplyLast "I guess it obviously depends a l"> Exactly, highly dependent.
-
sarang
This is why I said that not all inflation is created equal
-
sarang
There could exist other Monero-related inflation flaws that we don't know about
-
tokineko[m]
Is it easy to detect unintended inflation on monero?
-
sarang
and both Zcash and Monero could be subject to inflation if certain cryptographic assumptions are broken (but this is considered _highly_ unlikely)
-
sarang
and there could exist other Zcash-relation inflation flaws that we don't know about
-
sarang
same with Bitcoin
-
sarang
or any asset
-
sarang
This topic is complex
-
sarang
*Zcash-related
-
tokineko[m]
Governments and bank counterfeit their own money crazily. At least, we are safe from counterfeiting by governments and banks.
-
tokineko[m]
* Governments and banks counterfeit their own money crazily. At least, we are safe from counterfeiting by governments and banks.
-
tokineko[m]
Federal reserve even boast the fact that they are counterfeting trillions of US dollars every year.
-
tokineko[m]
* Federal reserve even boasts the fact that they are counterfeting trillions of US dollars every year.
-
sarang
It's an interesting thought experiment that a hypothetical Monero protocol could be designed to support transparent migrations
-
sarang
(Note that I think this is a bad idea and do not support such a thing)
-
tokineko[m]
transparent migration to what?
-
sarang
Some new output pool
-
sarang
(this is all a thought experiment)
-
tokineko[m]
I don't understand what you mean by output pool.
-
sarang
A pool of outputs that could be referenced in future transactions
-
tokineko[m]
Something like shielded transaction pool on Pirate Chain?
-
ComplyLast
from the existing output pool to a new one tokineko[m]
-
sethsimmons
<tokineko[m] "Something like shielded transact"> Another mention of Pirate for no reason π
-
sethsimmons
Not even subtle
-
ComplyLast
lol
-
ComplyLast
<3
-
sarang
Interestingly, the use of Triptych/Arcturus would require a non-transparent pool migration
-
sethsimmons
I like pirate for some things but the shilling is so obnoxious.
-
sarang
(it would _not_ reveal amounts)
-
ComplyLast
hmm
-
sarang
The reason for this migration is a new key image format
-
sethsimmons
That would be enforced by the protocol at hard fork, correct?
-
sarang
Presumably
-
sethsimmons
Spends have to go through an initial migration before spend?
-
ComplyLast
so two types of key image formats and outputs would need to cohexist on chain?
-
sarang
It would be _possible_ to enforce some kind of amount-revealing migration if people really wanted this (the math is not hard)
-
tokineko[m]
"Don't mention other coins" is tribal.
-
sethsimmons
Or would they just be direct from CLSAG->Triptych
-
sethsimmons
<tokineko[m] ""Don't mention other coins" is t"> If it was even close to on topic sure
-
sarang
sethsimmons: it would be direct
-
sethsimmons
Mention what you want if its helpful to the convoy, tokineko
-
sarang
perhaps "migration" is a poor term
-
sethsimmons
<sarang "sethsimmons: it would be direct"> Great
-
sarang
To be 100% clear, I do NOT advocate revealing amounts
-
sethsimmons
<sarang "perhaps "migration" is a poor te"> Yeah we might need clearer messaging before then π
-
sethsimmons
<sarang "To be 100% clear, I do NOT advoc"> Absolutely no one here does either that I know of
-
ComplyLast
sarang, so after hard fork every output spent from the previous pool would be migrated into the new output pool?
-
sarang
I am merely stating that the idea of a transparent migration is not somehow impossible with the Monero protocol
-
tokineko[m]
Pool reminded me of Pirate Chain and ZCash because I didn't know that monero was using any pool.
-
sarang
ComplyLast: yes, basically
-
sarang
the software would handle it all
-
sarang
I am using the term "pool" to mean "the set of outputs that can be referenced as being possibly consumed in a given transaction"
-
sethsimmons
Good details I wasn't aware of around the move to a new proving system!
-
ComplyLast
sarang, what are your thoughts personally on something akin to what haven is doing with free floating supply?
-
sarang
sethsimmons: AFAIK there are no concrete plans to move to a new proving system
-
sarang
ComplyLast: sorry, I don't know what "free floating supply" means
-
ComplyLast
non predictable rate of supply growth
-
sarang
I'm not an economist
-
ComplyLast
it's more a game theoretical question that a crypto one I guess
-
sarang
I have limited knowledge of what Haven is doing
-
tokineko[m]
Will monero adopt mimblewimble?
-
sethsimmons
<sarang "sethsimmons: AFAIK there are no "> They're materializing but not set yet, for sure.
-
sarang
A Haven developer did contact me with questions about CLSAG for multi-asset use, but did not reveal their Haven affiliation until later
-
sethsimmons
<tokineko[m] "Will monero adopt mimblewimble?"> Not that I have heard of, its not a good fit.
-
tokineko[m]
By the way, haven is discontinued by OB1...
-
ComplyLast
sarang, oh I thought they were upfront about it to begin with
-
sethsimmons
<tokineko[m] "By the way, haven is discontinue"> Different haven
-
sarang
Also note that I specifically noted to Haven that their use of CLSAG for this purpose had _not_ been reviewed or audited as part of the Monero-related audit
-
sethsimmons
<tokineko[m] "Will monero adopt mimblewimble?"> MW is great for scaling but not ideal as the sole privacy solution.
-
tokineko[m]
MimbleWimble is touted as a scalability solution that saves HDD space.
-
sarang
and as such, I want to note that I do not vouch for Haven
-
tokineko[m]
I guess mimblewimble can save HDD space...
-
ComplyLast
I never though you did :)
-
sarang
I have seen my name mentioned related to Haven's protocol, which I do not like
-
sarang
Their use of CLSAG for multi-asset use was in a small side note in an original version of the CLSAG preprint... we removed it later
-
sarang
Their use of it might be secure, but it might not... I do not know
-
sethsimmons
<sarang "I have seen my name mentioned re"> I've mentioned that to them, they're borderline affiliation scamming sometimes, but I think its more from zeal than malice.
-
sethsimmons
Good intentions that sometimes go wrong.
-
ComplyLast
anyway from reading some of their documentation
-
tokineko[m]
sarang: Be proud. They gave you credit.
-
ComplyLast
it does seem that you were somehow more involved that you were in reality hence my questions
-
sarang
They offered to pay me for technical advice, but I instead suggested they consider a donation to a local charity
-
ComplyLast
I was mostly interesting on the game theoretical attack vectors on how to completely disrupt supply on both directions with different types of attacks
-
ComplyLast
this is offtopic at this point though
-
ComplyLast
speaking on attack vectors
-
ComplyLast
not jokingly, do you have any opinion on using external sources of data (i.e oracles) to potentially calculate fee rates for Monero?
-
sarang
That seems inherently gameable
-
sarang
and difficult/challenging/impossible to later verify without trust
-
ComplyLast
yup
-
sarang
I would certainly not personally advocate for such a thing
-
sarang
in Monero or an asset with a similar desired trust model
-
ComplyLast
to follow-up on that do you foresee any scenario where a pure fee market could develop on Monero?
-
sarang
In a different trust model, the answer might be quite different
-
sarang
Again, I'm no economist, and I don't want to speculate on something like that where I have such limited knowledge
-
sarang
sorry
-
ComplyLast
it's not so much from an economical stand point
-
ComplyLast
more of a trade-off given that fees leak metadata
-
sarang
Fees certainly do inherently leak metadata, and there have been proposals to at least stratify them by reducing their precision
-
ComplyLast
so its more a question of instead of tweaking fee rates via hard forks have you envisioned something different?
-
sarang
Removing them entirely would presumably open up the project to easy DoS (AFAIK Zcash is still vulnerable to this in theory?)
-
sarang
("removing them entirely" == "not enforcing minima that depend on transaction structure")
-
ComplyLast
Yes, removing them entirely doesn't seem like a good solution
-
tokineko[m]
By the way, what is the average transaction fee on monero?
-
ComplyLast
tweaking them via hard fork ad eternum is not a great solution either, albeit better than removing them lol
-
ComplyLast
-
sarang
I can't really speak to what kind of fee structure is "optimal"
-
ComplyLast
is that something even on the radar of the MRL?
-
sarang
But I agree that limiting fee-based metadata seems like a generally good idea, if done safely
-
tokineko[m]
Why do people pay a lot of fee for the same bytes?
-
tokineko[m]
* Why do some people pay a lot of fee for the same bytes?
-
sarang
ComplyLast: others may be thinking about fees
-
sarang
I can't speak for others
-
ComplyLast
I know others are
-
sarang
Great!
-
ComplyLast
even for the next hard fork
-
ComplyLast
but it's more of a tweaking the parameters strategy approach
-
ComplyLast
still reliant on later hard-forks for correction if needed, etc
-
tokineko[m]
Someone paid 0.02126342XMR as transaction fee. Someone else paid 0.00001156XMR as transaction fee. Bitcoin transactions felt pretty painful with transaction fee of 0.001 BTC.
-
tokineko[m]
Why do people pay different fees?
-
ComplyLast
on that specific example someone loves miners, someone doesn't
-
ComplyLast
people could pay higher fee rates to assure they're included in the next block
-
mnt_grrrl
I am looking to host a bittorrent tracker are there any subdomains I could get a host added to?
-
ComplyLast
sarang, would a pure fee market approach even be compatible with dynamic blocksizes as they work in monero?
-
ComplyLast
as in each user would be able to pick how much monero per byte they would be willing to pay
-
ComplyLast
I understand this might be less than ideal for privacy reasons
-
sarang
ComplyLast: verification time and space do not scale the same way
-
sarang
At least, not with constructions like BP, BP+, and some other proving systems that are being looked into
-
tokineko[m]
When XMR is expensive, it might not be suitable for microtransactions...
-
luigi1111w
you can replace bytes with cost in the question
-
tokineko[m]
0.001 BTC is already more than 6 US dollars. I wouldn't pay 6 US dollars as a fee for sending 1 US dollar worth of BTC.
-
luigi1111w
ok not quite grammatically, but whatever
-
ComplyLast
luigi1111w, care to explain?
-
luigi1111w
verification cost, which can include bytes and operations to verify, since it's not linear
-
ComplyLast
oh I see what you mean
-
ComplyLast
that would be an interesting approach
-
tokineko[m]
Is Tari like ethereum for monero?
-
ComplyLast
define like ethereum
-
tokineko[m]
smart contracts. Codes on blockchain.
-
ComplyLast
tari has smart contract capability yes
-
ComplyLast
and scripting through scriptless scripts
-
ComplyLast
as I mentioned before there's a channel if you're into that :p
-
tokineko[m]
Is it more profitable to mine tari and monero than to mine monero alone?
-
Mumuks[m]
<ComplyLast "as I mentioned before there's a "> Naughty...
-
tokineko[m]
Is it possible to implement something like bisq exchange on top of monero multisig?
-
tokineko[m]
MMS
-
synxero
test
-
monerobux
Test failed
-
fluffypony
tokineko[m]: I think that splitting liquidity between Bisq and some homegrown system wouldn't be wise
-
fluffypony
better to concentrate liquidity on Bisq for now, once it's sufficiently large then it's time to build out an alternative
-
tokineko[m]
No.
-
tokineko[m]
I just wanted to know whether it's possible. I didn't ask whether it's wise to do so now.
-
fluffypony
I don't see why not - MMS is just a messaging system
-
fluffypony
you can send whatever messages you want on it
-
fluffypony
so you could use it to maintain a DHT, for instance
-
tokineko[m]
Yes, it should be possible.
-
tokineko[m]
By the way, you are the man who gave a presentation on Tari. How do you plan to make Tari private? Do you have any big-picture plan other than mimblewimble?
-
tokineko[m]
Non-fungible token transactions haven't been made private, yet. Do you already have a game plan? Or, are you trying to make it private?
-
tokineko[m]
fluffypony: ^^
-
fluffypony
yeah the base layer of Tari is MW, but not the asset layer
-
fluffypony
-
tokineko[m]
Mimblewimble, tor, XXX?
-
tokineko[m]
fluffypony: Monero's game plan for privacy is ring signature, RingCT, and stealth address. What is Tari's game plan for privacy going to be?
-
fluffypony
tokineko[m]: suggest you read the RFCs thoroughly, and if you have any input on the evolving architecture then #tari-dev is the place for that discussion :)
-
tokineko[m]
I guess the plan is still undecided.
-
fluffydonkey[m]
I looked at the Tari website, and honest to God, I have no idea what it is. I guess I'm stupid π
-
tokineko[m]
fluffydonkey: Think ethereum for monero.
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LamontJones
Hello, is there a Monero technical support IRC channel I can join and ask a question or does that all happen on Reddit?
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sech1
#monero-pools
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Inge-
#monero for non-mining related questions
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LamontJones
Many thanks!
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fluffydonkey[m]
<tokineko[m] "fluffydonkey: Think ethereum for"> That makes sense! Thanks. I wish they just said that. :\ I use monero, but i'm in "into" crypto that much
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fluffydonkey[m]
> <@tokigami.kineko:matrix.org> fluffydonkey: Think ethereum for monero.
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fluffydonkey[m]
* That makes sense! Thanks. I wish they just said that. :\ I use monero, but i'm not "into" crypto that much
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tokineko[m]
I bought more XMR....
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tokineko[m]
What does this mean? How do quantum computers destroy governments and large corporations?
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tokineko[m]
My suspicion is that governments and banks and large corporations will use quantum computers to oppress people.
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charolastra
it doesn't mean anything. quantum computers are SciFi fantasies
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Mumuks[m]
I hope I live to see affordable quantum modems, as in the idea of having to atoms in alignment (or whatever it is called) and being able to send bits between them no matter where or how far in the universe they are. This would allow to create networks without physical boundaries. Total internet privacy, including for financial transactions or miner communication.
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charolastra
that's also fantasy. all the entanglement communications have a second conventional channel for actual data transmisisons. and those entangelents aren't solid over time/distance
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tokineko[m]
We already have quantum computers. They are just expensive for now.
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charolastra
do we?
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charolastra
what are they computing?
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tokineko[m]
Even if they keep requiring cold environment, quantum computers can still evolve in large datacenters owned by google.
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tokineko[m]
Google will use quantum computers to harass people.
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tokineko[m]
Quantum harassment.
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oceanus[m]
Quantum computing = witchcraft
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Mumuks[m]
<charolastra "that's also fantasy. all the ent"> Let me dream
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jakoson0
What kind of person steals from their own community? www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/6d5yt5/what_fluffypony_just_did_is_not_ok/
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ayahuaza
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fluffypony
ayahuaza: don't think so - we'd move very cautiously around implementing any PQC unless it's layered on top of "regular" crypto
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fluffypony
eg. the thing that Google is doing with some HTTPS connections
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fluffypony